#52 – George Freney, Founding Partner of 11point2 on Entrepreneurial Mindset and Accelerating Worthwhile Ideas

George Freney is an experienced entrepreneur who is passionate and curious about how rapidly accelerating technology, combined with changing human behaviour, creates challenges and opportunities for people, businesses and governments.  

George is fascinated with the idea lifecycle and the best way to generate worthwhile ideas, quickly assess if they are worth testing and validating if they are worth launching.  

George has been involved with many technology-centric businesses as an investor, advisor, founder, director and executive.  

In 2007 he helped found conTgo a market-leading mobile travel technology platform that was sold in 2013.  

In 2012, he co-founded booodl to solve a complex problem for physical retail businesses. George led the company from initial idea through 5 rounds of fundraising, securing strategic customers and partnerships, multiple strategies and product pivots and the decision to stop pursuing the mission.  

George is now a founding partner of 11point2, a boutique advisory and technology lab focused on helping people, businesses and government validate worthwhile ideas and co-founder and executive director of Space Machines Company, an Australian Space Transport and Logistics provider and a member of the Flinders University Governing Council Audit & Risk Committee. 

George has previously held board positions with the South Australian Government Entrepreneurship Advisory Board and was a director of the RAA and member of the Investment Committee.  

George holds an Honours Degree in Chemical Engineering from the University of Adelaide, completed a Post Graduate Diploma in Applied Finance and Investment and is a Graduate of the Australian Institute of Company Directors.  

In this episode, George and Daniel touch on his journey to where he finds himself today from studying Chemical Engineering to unpacking his experiences through his Entrepreneurial exploits, to what does the start-up mindset look like and its importance in uncovering and validating ideas. 

Georges core philosophy is "those that are able, are obligated to do" and his belief that "uncovering ideas that are worthwhile is an art". 

We also spend we spent a lot of time talking about the start-up world and the decision that all entrepreneurs fear: The idea of closing down or not pursuing a business.  

George shared with us the thought process he went through and how he came to make the tough decision of liquidating and what was to "fail the right way" and all the lessons he took away from this experience. 

Books mentioned in this podcast: 

• Can't Hurt Me - Master Your Mind and Defy the Odds - By David Goggins 
• Range - How Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World - By David Epstein 
• Extreme Ownership - By: Jocko Willink, Leif Babin 
• Doom - The Politics of Catastrophe  By Niall Ferguson 

Where to find George Freney. 

• LinkedIn 
• 11point2 

Join the conversation on Synergy IQ LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram (@synergyiq) and please support other leaders by liking, subscribing and sharing this podcast.  

Access SynergyIQ Website to get to know more about us.  

Say hello to our host Daniel on LinkedIn. 

Transcript

Synergy IQ: 0:01

Welcome to Creating synergy, where we explore what it takes to transform. We are powered by Synergy IQ. Our mission is to help leaders create world class businesses where people are safe, valued, inspired and fulfilled. We can only do this with our amazing community. So thank you for listening

Daniel Franco: 0:20

is synergises and welcome back to another episode of The creating synergy podcast. My name is Daniel Franco. And today we have George Freney on the show. So George is one of those people who you can get lost in a conversation with and this podcast was absolutely no exception, as we visited more rabbit holes than the average golf course. So a little bit about George, George is an experienced entrepreneur who is passionate and curious about how rapidly accelerating technology combined with changing human behavior creates challenges and opportunities for people, businesses and governments. George is fascinated with the idea lifecycle, and the best way to generate worthwhile ideas quickly assess if they're worth testing and validating. And if they're worth launching. In 2007, he helped found contigo and market leading mobile travel technology platform, which was sold in 2013. In 2012, he co founded boodle to solve complex problems for the physical retail business. George led the company from initial idea through five rounds of fundraising, securing strategic customers and partnerships, multiple strategy and product pivots. And then finally, the decision to stop issuing the mission by liquidating in 2018. Today, George is now our founding partner of 11.2, a boutique advisory and technology lab focused on helping people businesses and government validate worthwhile ideas, and a co founder and executive of director of space machines, an Australian space transport and logistics provider. And on top of this is a member of the Flinders University Governing Council audit and risk committee. Previously, George has also held board positions with the South Australian Government entrepreneur ship advisory board, and was director of IRI and member of the Investment Committee. In this episode, George and I touch on his journey to where he finds himself today from studying chemical engineering to unpacking his experiences through his entrepreneurial exploits, to what does the startup mindset look like? And it's important in uncovering and validating ideas. George's core philosophy is those that are able obligated to do and his belief that uncovering ideas that are worthwhile is an art. We also spent a lot of time talking about the startup world and the decision that all entrepreneurs fee the idea of closing down or not pursuing the business, George shared with us the thought process he went through and how he came to make the tough decision of liquidating and what was failing the right way and all the lessons he took away from this experience. So if you love the episode, which I'm sure you will be sure to hit subscribe button. And check us out at Synergyiq.com.au and synergy IQ on all the social media outlets. Welcome back to the creating synergy podcast today. We have a very, very great man by the name of George Freney on the show, founding partner of 11.2, which is a boutique advisor in Technology Lab helping businesses gov and government validate worthwhile ideas, and also the co founder of space machines and in space transportation, business. How are you doing?

George Freney: 3:43

I'm really very well and delighted to be here. It's it's a great privilege to come and have a chat about this. I'm really looking forward to it.

Daniel Franco: 3:49

So you're you've had a few chats, and we've talked about how much of it people collect you're a bit of a nominalist character as well like a bit of left of center, which I absolutely love about you. So I want to start off with a slightly different question for who is Phil Boyle? And what influence did he have on you in your life?

George Freney: 4:11

[inaudible audio] no Bill Boyle we can wait doesn't matter. Boyle? Well? This is a good question. It actually came up. Where did it come up? I'm on the Governing Council for Highgate primary school and we had to we had to talk about the most influential teacher in our experience at school. Yeah, and Bill Doyle is the man that really changed my life in so many ways. So then he was my year 11 geography teacher and my year 12 geography teacher and you know are going up into a taught me in year 11. How to Learn. I just was cruising, right so and his philosophy on this was really simple. Take every chapter of every subject and summarize it onto one single page. Right? Wow. So it was like literally and he's like George, if you do that, if you can summarize a chapter on a page means you understand the Chapter process of summarizing on a page means. And then when it comes to end of year, you've only got a little bit to learn, you just got to go through each page.

Daniel Franco: 5:08

And it's a way of explaining the complex in a simple formula complex in

George Freney: 5:13

a simple form. So I did that in year 11, I did it for every subject in year 12, I top the state and geography. So it worked, it genuinely worked. I didn't do much study in year 12, because I just had it all summarized on a page. And then I did it all through uni, like four years of chemical engineering degree, I summarized everything on the page. And then I never really thought about this again. And then in my business 11.2, we do these things called placemats, where we summarize really complex strategic problems or ideas on a single page. And so for years now, I've been building this capability. And I was sitting with the CEO of the RIA this morning, taking him through to one pages, one page about something and one page about something else. It's actually this is such an easy way to understand a really complex topic. And I'd never reflected until a few weeks ago, on the impact that Bill had had. I loved him like I loved the man who's your favorite teacher. But I hadn't realized how to infiltrate it into how I actually execute nearly everything I do today. Like what I do, complex problem, idea summarized on the page

Daniel Franco: 6:15

isn't amazing. We've had this conversation with a few people on the show before about how the power of your words and can help how much impact that can be right on one. Like Bill. I'm going to say feel again, Bill is he probably doesn't even know that he he told you that. And then that's had an impact on him. So

George Freney: 6:35

it's a shame, right? So you know, he unfortunately died of mesothelioma, not so long after I finished school. And I did write him a letter. I remember I wrote him a letter when he was sick, and just explaining how much impact you've had on my life, and how much I was grateful for that. But I never explained to him the one page thing. Yeah, I've never really contextualized thought about actually how important that was, I would love to be able to tell him that. Yeah, he had such a profound impact, I think on the way my brain works.

Daniel Franco: 7:04

It's amazing that you as a hell I mean, see 1516 year old at the time, who actually did it, right, because it's quite a difficult process. So your brain must work in it. Yeah,

George Freney: 7:15

I think fitted with me, right? Like it just it fitted. And he talked about the importance of language, the process of summarizing something on a page, just makes you be really precise and efficient with the words that you use, and you're going to space. So you got to be you got to think it through properly. And I think, you know, I find a lot of people hand up big doc long documents, you know, and it's like, it's just complex, there's so much room for interpretation error. But if you summarize it really well, it's precise,

Daniel Franco: 7:43

get not worried, probably not the right word. Do you do get concerned that you're going to miss information like this, I should know that I should know that.

George Freney: 7:53

I think you get really, you get really focused on the information. That's important. Because I think if you put too much in, it distracts from what's important. So it makes you like focus on like, really critical. And it's interesting, because I have an analogy, I'm involved in the startup world for a long, long time since 2006. A startup pitch deck is very similar to a one pager, it's just spread out over 12 pages, but it's the same sort of clarity of articulation of something which is nebulous and complex. I think it works really well, for things that don't exist, like you're trying to explain something that doesn't exist, you've got to be really precise and accurate with how you articulate it.

Daniel Franco: 8:33

But do you take that mentality of explaining it? Like you're explained to a six year old child? Is that common?

George Freney: 8:38

Well? Well, I mean, that's some six year old child might not work for some of the complex stuff. It's the same principle, right? Yeah. Someone should, someone should go pick up that document and have very few questions.

Daniel Franco: 8:49

Yeah, well, that's an art in itself.

George Freney: 8:52

I think it's my art. I genuinely think that like, that is what I love it. Like I take enormous pride and I spend hours lining up every pixel and every color and making it like literally and I look at it. I'm really proud of,

Daniel Franco: 9:06

yeah, that's brilliant. Do you pass that information on? Like, are you wait, obviously now with this podcast? We're talking, you know, if there's one thing that you can do, take the one chapter, bring it to one page? Is that something that you talked about your kids so

George Freney: 9:18

I talk to my team about my kids about it, like my my nine year old son. He did the elephant Science Awards. He did his first one pager. He did a poster. And I was like, was really hard. I really wanted to get in and fix it

Daniel Franco: 9:36

wasn't perfect, but 8020 rule.

George Freney: 9:39

experience. It was really, but it wasn't proud demos. Yes,

Daniel Franco: 9:44

well done. Excellent. How many kids you go,

George Freney: 9:46

I've got three kids jack nine, Angus seven and Emily five.

Daniel Franco: 9:50

Well done. Excellent. It's

George Freney: 9:51

fun time. Fun time.

Daniel Franco: 9:53

My kids a similar age so I know exactly what you're going through. So you seem to be successful academic obviously topping this state. Then you go to engine engineering let's see where from a jogger free you know being all things great a geography Why did you then decide to go into engineering?

George Freney: 10:11

At school? I did maths one maths to physics Chem geography. Okay. I didn't like English at all. Yeah. Which is quite ironic, because now I spent a lot of time trying to understand things. But literally, I remember this really clearly. They're like, Well, George, pretty smart. Like you're doing well at school. You know, you could be a doctor or an engineer. I don't want to be a doctor, engineer, and what sort of engineering you want to do and publish the percentage of men and women in each engineer engineering discipline. I was like, chemical engineering, Haas proportion of women. I'll do that. Yeah. Yeah. And that was, that was the subtitle of my strategic decision make, like,

Daniel Franco: 10:44

Why'd the GQ just what was your thought process around?

George Freney: 10:47

Oh, look, I quite liked the idea that engineers build things like so I sort of always sort of had this bent towards will engineers make things old things are creating things that are of the future. Yeah. So you know, I was, but I look, but I was never really that thoughtful or strategic about these things. It's not like, I want to be this. Just just like, engineers build things. I'll do that. Yeah. Okay. Don't feel sort of fear. Yeah. Never worked as an engineer. Yeah. Cuz

Daniel Franco: 11:13

you finished you came engineering got into startup world.

George Freney: 11:16

So I it's really interesting. You know,

Daniel Franco: 11:20

we had a nightclub at one point did we get into this world?

George Freney: 11:25

So I go to engineering because we'll get into that where like, so I was doing a chemical engineering, you guys started engineering of 17 or 17 year olds at uni during chemical engineering 40 contact hours a week, it was busy. And I wasn't that interested in it? To be honest, like I was just doing a great group of friends, you know, get to third year. And I sort of in that period, I was sort of I would describe as a bit of like, a not a fascist, but I didn't really think about how the world worked. I was just like mining, let's go mining, dig stuff up. My family was in the mining industry. And I was like, Well, I never really thought about how the world works contextually. You know, the indigenous world. And I got into uni one day in third year, and I'd been out late the night before I was the last one into class. And we had to pick out research projects. And I picked one about Eddie Mabo. So he was the last one website, I was forced to do a research project about it. And this has got nothing to do with engineering. So you didn't pick the You told that was that was the last one. So I was like, that was the last one. All right, I've got a I got to do a project about indigenous history. And at Mabo. You probably

Daniel Franco: 12:25

Jagat in the US the best thing? That's amazing. Yeah.

George Freney: 12:30

And that was a sliding door moment for me because it made me understand what had happened in terms of how white settlers had come here and to find terra nullius. And that gave them international legal rights to try and take the land. And I was like, this is just so wrong, like, and I went

Daniel Franco: 12:46

shifted, how can you treat a human being human beings? How

George Freney: 12:49

can the system work in a way that enables that to happen? It was only 150 years ago. So I learned there that we're at Mabo did and then, you know, the native title was and I became really interested and as I sort of made my I do not want to be a chemical engineer. I do not want to be involved in extracting oil and mining and all of that. And I was pretty lost. And I just finished uni and started a t shirt business and then got into T shirts, just just HyperCard T shirts, buy some T shirts and sell, you know, started, you know, you know, ran some dance parties. And you know, I was involved in running a nightclub on primary Street and it was just having a whole lot of fun.

Daniel Franco: 13:24

That's brilliant. And then boodle came along

George Freney: 13:29

now that's a lot of like, so that's online way. So yeah, that was you know what, so that's 1996. I finished uni and I was just cruising around didn't really do anything seriously for quite some time. Then I went up to Sydney in 2000. And was again just mucking around really just having basically having fun doing little bits of work, trying to start businesses nothing too serious. And I my mum was a bit worried about me, I think. And she was she still I digress for a second we did we did a group strategy session like a team culture session last week, the consistent theme was George's a bit crazy. So it really came out. Crazy, but my mom was on the board of family business Australia. Yeah. And she was on the board with Stephen Marshall, who's the now the Premier and I sat next to him at a conference in bond up on the Gold Coast. And we had a chat got along well and it was nice interesting, dude. Like, I've met someone like that before. I like that, man. That sounds pretty cool. Six months later, I set an extreme on applying just randomly, and he says Dude, why don't you come and work at Marshall furniture with me in Adelaide. Okay, you know, my girlfriend was in Adelaide. I was in Sydney. I moved back to Adelaide and that sounds like a great plan. So I started working for Marshall furniture in 2001 As a business analyst optimizing supply chain in the factory and which has nothing to do with anything I did. And then through over a few years progressed through to being the general manager of the commercial division helped Steven with the transaction To sell it to Steinhoff, and so wow, this business stuff's cool, man. Like I really sort of got a flavor for it. Yeah. And then in 2003, I went and worked for Yasser Shahin up at Paragon Corporation, yep. on special projects. And I was like, Wow, man, this is like, cool. This is that's the first time I got exposed to the power of data and technology. We were using sophisticated data. And I met a guy called Jeff Roche on when I was there, who was provided to, through his business, SDM strategic data management was providing services to Yasser and got to know that as well, this stuff's really cool. Yeah. And in 2006, I was like, man, there's not enough going on Adelaide, I need to do something more, more adventure. So I moved back to Sydney. And it was at that point that I met a Danish guy called Johnny Torsen. When I was doing some management consulting work, and he was a crazy Danish guy. He's like, two times, these are George, I've got this idea. I've got this idea for this tech company, where we like we take itinerary data. And this is before mobile, this is before smartphones, we take itinerary data, and we build a rules engine. And it sends automated text messages to people about their travel plans and disruptions. And we can track where they are. And we can manage risk and procurement for big companies alike. Yeah, so we wrote a small my business partner items, small check, and came like an early investor in this Danish travel tech startup brilliant. I've never made an investment in my life. And I just like this guy. And so then I ended up starting a company in Australia to distribute that product in the Asia Pacific region. And from 2006 to 2012. We grew that business and ended up selling it to a company called concur. In 2012, which is an amazing learning. And Dorado we made some money, but nowhere near as much as we should because and I learned some really valuable lessons. While I was just all I thought about was product product product, like how do we solve the problems for our customers product? And I didn't think about the corporate structure, the investors that I didn't think about that. Yeah. And they had bought some investors in from Finland that were not that well aligned to what we're doing. So we were trying, me and Johnny were like, just go, you know, the world's taking off. Like Steve doesn't intend his money everywhere. Like, let's build this is build a big, and we're talking to Silicon Valley VCs and they are interested in investing. But the finish investors didn't want us to do that. And unfortunately, we massively sub optimized the opportunity that the product represented, and ended up selling it for I think, like a fifth of what we should have. So we had some money, but not great money. But I got literally caught the bug. How cool is this? You can have an idea, build some tech help customers do amazing solve problems. Right? So then in 2012, we had this idea. Well, I had this idea that it would be really cool to get a message on your phone when you're walking past a physical shop that sold the product you wanted to buy. It was like a smart shopping list. Yeah, just let you know when you're near a physical shop that sells out the word

Daniel Franco: 17:49

before spam, like because that would annoy?

George Freney: 17:59

Boots, walking past the arm William Sharpe Hey, George, remember you want tomorrow? Yeah, that's internal FDA. Yeah. So I was like, that's interesting. Researching was in the process of selling the other company. And I was like, this looks interesting and started building up a thesis around, how do you help shoppers find stuff in physical stores. And we went and started this thing. We called it listo. Before we got the branding people involved, and then it became caboodle. But then there were some trademark infringement issues as boodle. And you know, we raised a lot of money in 2012, on the back of a PowerPoint deck. So put together a team raised two and a half a million dollars without a product who's just a PowerPoint deck.

Daniel Franco: 18:39

How do you go about that?

George Freney: 18:39

Yeah, this is, I don't know, man. I'm just like, let's do it. So

Daniel Franco: 18:43

is it do you think it's your background, working with machines, working with Marshall working with Russia and all these?

George Freney: 18:49

I think all of them contribute to, I believe, but I think I have a core fundamental philosophy that you just imagine the future and go and start doing it. Yeah, like so.

Daniel Franco: 19:02

I haven't been so he was a visionary. I have very little fear

George Freney: 19:05

of that not working. And I'm very little fear of talking to people and asking him so in that window, I just you have to have so many conversations to explain something that doesn't exist. So you know, and I've spent so much time explaining things that don't exist. So we raised a lot of money, we got the Packers involved, we got the you know, UBS bank, you know, the CEO of UBS bank was involved. It was a really great group of people.

Daniel Franco: 19:29

How do you go about connecting with these people?

George Freney: 19:31

I collect people Yeah, yes.

Daniel Franco: 19:33

Right. People collect the things so

George Freney: 19:35

you know, my oldest friend from Adelaide, my best friend from school was in Sydney he had a great network and was friends with he was really good friends with a lady called Erica packet James packers xy. We met her we tack talked about what we're doing. She liked it. I talked to James who's like, Man sounds interesting, you know, and says, just this conversation, so you just follow Yeah, and I think there's a I was talking to my team about it this week. It's like, you have to just have vulnerable, open genuine conversation people. So it's like, my view is when I'm collecting, like talking to people. I'm just this is me. This is what I believe this is how I see the future. I've got reasonably good at articulating things quickly. 100% And then I think it's a combination of Oh, wow, you've got a nice vision of the future might be a bit crazy. Yeah. You got a lot of passion. And you seem to be really honest and vulnerable, transparent about it. Okay,

Daniel Franco: 20:31

let's get to it. I'm interested.

George Freney: 20:32

Yeah. So boodle. We started.

Daniel Franco: 20:35

So be a good person, right? That's open and honest. Really? Yeah.

George Freney: 20:39

I think, yes. 100% be open and honest and transparent. Like don't try and play games with this.

Daniel Franco: 20:46

Yeah. Correct. Because if you're trying to raise money for business, open, open the books. He's that kind of what you're saying,

George Freney: 20:51

where there's a loop and I can't help I'm a mad put Adelaide fan. A few weeks ago, I got a Brahma which is a small consolation prize only ones an amazing human being. But there is a principle in their creed, like the Allied creed that I really, really love. And it's like, they can only be honoring defeat when all of human endeavor is exhausted. And I think whenever you're doing something that is highly likely to not work, or it's really risky and hard, which most stuff, invest is the only thing I can promise to someone, I can't promise you, I'm going to give you a return on your investment. That promise is disingenuous. I can promise you that I will do everything in my power to use my efforts in the best way possible to pursue what I've promised you that I will try and pursue. Yeah. And if you do that, and don't do anything illegal or wrong, then I think that's successful. If you're lucky and fortunate enough to actually get a business up and running. You know, most startups don't work like the vast majority of them don't work. If you're fortunate enough to get one up and running, provide investment trends, brilliant. But if it doesn't work, make sure it doesn't work in the right way. And that is you do everything you have integrity, you treat everyone with respect, you don't break the law, and you give it everything in the right way to succeed.

Daniel Franco: 22:08

So I want to touch on that because I think it's an important point so boodle. Obviously, you've closed the doors on Bill, you'd liquidated and, you know, decided to finish up with that project. However, if in my head, I'm thinking, well, if George, if he done it incorrectly, right? If he filed incorrectly, he pays people off. He stole their money around with all the above, then you wouldn't be in where you are today. Right? Yeah. So you've actually, is there a what I think what I'm asking is, is there a right way to fail?

George Freney: 22:41

Yes. And I think there's a there's interesting conversation going on, in some parts of this sort of stuff. I think he was talking about it, but about the word failure. Was it Simon Sinek? I'm not sure if it was maybe it was Simon Sinek though talking about the word failure has got too much nuance in it. Right. So it's like, it's almost like falling over is a better analogy for like, you fall over. You get back up, you keep going failing sort of people tend to think you've done something wrong. Yeah. In the word failure. Yeah. Well, yeah.

Daniel Franco: 23:09

In the perception. Yes. So like, depends on who you talk to.

George Freney: 23:13

Buddha was a really interesting journey. Yeah. Because I think that I'm a far better human being as a result of, and, you know, I'm proud of me and the team that was involved for the fact that the investors we got involved, were, as many of them are good friends of mine and involved in things I'm doing for the future. And that's because we did it the right way. We treated them with respect, we put all of our endeavor into making it work. Well, we never broke the law. We paid everyone their money. No, whenever, like, no employees didn't get paid. No suppliers didn't get paid. The tax office didn't you know, everyone got what they were meant to get. And I think that's a really important message. Generally, the first chief entrepreneur in South Australia talked a lot about it was, you know, you've got to do the right thing. You've got to file the right way. And if you do that, but if you're a bad person, and you break the law, and you treat people poorly, go away.

Daniel Franco: 24:04

Yeah, nothing for it. Yeah. And you're, you're really gonna get caught out. It's gonna everything's gonna catch up, isn't it? Yep, I agree. And is that decision? How do you come to the decision of saying, Oh, I'm not I'm not going to pursue this like because it's a tough gig. It's your baby it's worth it you can you know, if you're a visionary you can almost see it you almost feel it, taste it all the above. But then you know, you make that decision. But yeah, I'm trying to get into your head and

George Freney: 24:34

it's it's a difficult decision to make right? And I think I remember there's a there's a term about like increasing like ink, like the challenge of increasing conviction, right, like so you spent time and money, your time your money, other people's money. You've got employees, customers, investors, you're always people that have bought into your vision, and the work you've done, you spent 1000s of hours on it, but making the decision to stop is really hard. Yeah, right. But I think as an entrepreneur or startup founder, you know, you could pivot or persevere, you know, I call it like, de like you have to be asking. So everyday, do you continue to pursue this idea with the resources, which isn't always time and money available to you? So, you know, I remember thinking that through, do we stop, you know, and it was really difficult. We formed the view that to launch that business, we needed a large amount of capital, because we were doing something that was against trend. And I remember, I had a chat with a guy called Joe Shawn Dorf, who was one of the first XL Venture Partners, one of the oldest VC firms in the Valley. He's been there since Hewlett Packard, so the beginning and he said to me at a conference, he's like, look, George, you're right. But you're going against the online trend. And when you go against the trend, you need lots of capital. So it's like, as a principle, if you're going against trend, the company's gonna need lots of capital to get success. And so we found the view, we needed $50 million to properly go from where we were at boot, or which is in 2016, to get it launched. And so we started pursuing that. And we, we thought we had a deal done to have $10 million, and then a $40 million dollar sort of next payment. Yeah. And we were pretty happy about that. We were like drinking champagne like this deals in place. Yeah, that deal didn't eventuate. And the questions that we started asking ourselves is a board and I had a great board, very supportive and very sophisticated. We were like, Well, is it ethical, and I had people offering the million dollars, Tim, and I could have taken another million or $2 million. And the question that we got to is that is it ethical to take $2 million, when we know we need much more to get this up. But basically, we're doing the same take a small amount to use a little bit more time to find a big amount. But if you can't find the big amount that the real amount is going to disappear. So we formed the view that it was not appropriate to take a small amount of money, and we couldn't find a big amount of money. So we had to make a decision to shut it down. Which means, you know, lay off staff,

Daniel Franco: 27:01

how many staff at the time,

George Freney: 27:02

there's about 14 at that point in time, you got to tell the investors that it's done. We're finished. And, and that's hard man like then you end up spending hundreds and hundreds of hours of work to finish it properly. You're not getting paid for Yeah, so it's a difficult exercise. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 27:19

Is that gut wrenching feeling? It's going through my body right now? Just knowing that? It's, I don't know, for me, it might be the approval thing where I'm just, I don't want to Yeah, obviously want to do the best for everyone. And you don't want to let people down? Did you have that feeling sort of run through your mind? And you're making the right decision? Right. Yeah. And

George Freney: 27:39

I think sometimes the right decision is painful. So you know, it's the right decision to make you just got to deal with the pain, I think. And I think there's a, you know, it what it teaches you like reflecting on it. Now, it's 2021. That was 2017. So we're in Sydney at the time, in early 2018. My wife and I have three young kids moved back to Adelaide, and she's also from Adelaide. Coming back here. It's really hard, like my identity, in some ways had been brutal. I was George from boodle for five years, some of my friends kids could be brutal George. So like, yeah, identity is sort of wrapped up in the pursuit of that vision and mission. Yeah. And you can get really, it was gut wrenching, man. What do I do? I what am I like, what's my next? Yeah, um, after that, but looking back on it, you look at it, I've learned so much from that, like, and what you learned is, you can make really hard decisions that are really painful, and you can feel really shit and horrible about it all. But you recover. Yeah. And and you know, and I think unless you go through that, you don't understand that you can find like file, use the word you can file and then you can get back up and laughs Okay, yes, keep going on this pain. And

Daniel Franco: 28:44

as long as you've kept your integrity throughout

George Freney: 28:47

the mistake that I probably made and you know, look at, yeah, this is a mistake that I regret was that I, I put too much energy into that at the cost of my family. That that is a trap, where you allow the startup to intrude on what is family time and family dynamic. And you know, my wife, you know, I'm sure she wouldn't mind me saying it, but she she probably experienced a bit of pain about that. We had young kids. I was jumping on planes when kids were young. And, you know, I feel regret about the impact that that had on the family at that point.

Daniel Franco: 29:20

Yeah, I Yeah, I hear loud and clear that it for me, it is always how do you do both? Right. How do you how do you Yeah, how do you be a visionary and be a family person in the same

George Freney: 29:34

I'm doing a lot better now than I was I sort of made it I made a principle for myself after that. I don't want to be thinking about work when I'm hanging out with my kids. Yeah. So it's like, I really tried to go there is family time. And then there is work time. Yeah, I've really tried hard to separate them.

Daniel Franco: 29:51

Yeah. And we just put the phone away or like how do you manage that because I think that is a difficult situation for most people in this.

George Freney: 29:59

Yes up my operating model is like in the morning, you know, you've got some time with the kids don't don't get other than checking my calendar to see what I've got on for the day, which is sort of essential. Yes, put the phone away until I either leave or they've taught at school. And in the evenings, when I get home, I try really, really hard. Not perfect, I don't know. But I try really hard. I put my take my watch off, take my phone, I put it in the office, I put my watch on charge, put my phone on charge. I try not to think about any of that, until the kids are asleep. And then, you know, bring the tools back out and start doing work to try to be a

Daniel Franco: 30:35

husband when the kids go to sleep. This is the I mean, this is for me, because I always say yeah, when kids go to bed, I'll pull out the laptop and go back to work.

George Freney: 30:43

I think it's important some nights, you've just got to hang out in the couch. Because you know, that's probably I can improve on that one. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 30:50

Yeah. There's, I'm grappling with this every single day. How do you manage your time during the day? I'm really interested in you obviously a very busy man, you're in a few boards, you're in councils of Flinders uni all the above, to to founder of two startups. How do you? How do you compartmentalize a the startup well, so I've got one startup here, I've got another startup here, I'm on this board over here. And then still deliver with all the distractions that could potentially occur during the day.

George Freney: 31:24

But I had a great one this morning, I was sitting down having a meeting and I got a call from the school, your son's fallen over. And it looks like he's fractured his ribs. My wife's an anesthetist. So she's in surgery at work. So I'm sort of on call to provide that sort of flexibility to deal with those sort of life's surprises. You just got to get really effective with your time. So you just I think, and the older I get, the more I become really disciplined about what I'm prepared to put my time into. And I think the the learnings out of to, you know, like 2006 to 2017, I was just literally in execution startup mode, like probably obsessed with now trying to be a little bit more abstracted away from the day to day execution. So in 11.2, I'm the founding partner like it's emerged from thinking that me and my business partner Raj, who worked with me a boodle had, but now we've got a fantastic team, a guy called Mark Ogden is the managing partner, he's very sensible, you know, he's very good at operational activities. So we're trying to build a team there, where the role that I play is not, you know, driving day to day everything activity, I want to be at the point where I'm an owner or a director, and I get involved in coming up with ideas and work with our with a really important cause. And with those machines company that cut that company actually came out of 11.2. So 11 went to primary businesses to uncover ideas and validate. Yeah, so we started validating an idea for a space toggle, they call them orbital transfer vehicles in 2019. And we built our conviction that that made sense, and then decided, where we will actually roll that out of 11.2. And create a new entity for that my business partner Raj is the CEO of and my, my strategy with that is to build a team that doesn't need me on a day to day basis. Because otherwise, it'd be too difficult to juggle balls.

Daniel Franco: 33:15

Yeah. To the space orbiting thing, we just touched on that. And I want to touch on 11.2 as well. But what are you doing there? Because and because you You're obviously so forward thinking, what are you what problem are you solving?

George Freney: 33:32

So look, you know, we love ideas? Because I am probably a bit crazy. And I The other thing on that timing? I think that I think that having lots of things to do suits my brain because it's really hard for me to focus on things for too long, unless I really need to having lots of things to do actually suits my brain because I like to jump into things and then jump into something else. Yeah, sort of scratches the itch of how my brain works. Space machines company started with my business partner Raj ringing me up in October 2018, saying, I think we should build an in space autonomous manufacturing capability for tiny satellites, so that you can configure a payload, like an a payload is what a satellite does configure what you want the satellite to do on a laptop, press a button and have it jump out the side of the machine in space a little bit later. So that to me, sounded amazing. I was like, Yeah, of course. You know, at some point in the future, there will be these ability to just, you know, have all autonomously manufactured satellites pop outside, like a 3d printer up a 3d printer, autonomous manufacturing facility on orbit, you know, flying around pushing things into orbits that they need to be like, that sounds cool, man. I mean, yeah. So we start thinking about it. So and I think this is what you do is like you have an idea. And then you start to think if it's viable, you know, keep validating it continuously researching, understanding it, seeing, you know, twisty adjusting it a little bit. Yeah, and we ended up getting to the point where, well, the first thing you need is a spacecraft that can move around in space. into the right spots. Yeah. And then we started to see that there was a market emerging because of nano satellites. Were 1000s of satellites have been launched. So it was really important for us as a, as a capability for the world to be able to put satellites into precise orbits, right. So big rockets go up to a spot in space. Yeah, but you need to get the satellite into another spot. So it's all like an A three ad goes from Sydney to LA. Yeah. And then you've got trucks, cars, vans, small planes, taking people in parcels, all of the small locations in California. Yeah, so similar stuffs happening in space. Like, there's so much infrastructure required up there to distribute things into the right spots. So there is an emerging market for what's called orbital transfer vehicles. I call them space courier vans. Yeah, take some satellites, put it you know, take take the space Korea put 10 satellites in it, put it in a big rocket, big rocket flies up to low Earth orbit space, the Korea event comes out and flies around and puts those small satellites in the correct orbits. Now, you know, I'd never thought about space until then. So this is well, this is really interesting, curious that readings not understanding like thinking it through. And I think timing is interesting. Because the space agency emerges, Australia starts getting interested in space, there's this massive proliferation of space activities. It's like there's a market for space career events is now nine companies who are trying to build these things. We are the only one in Australia.

Daniel Franco: 36:22

Yeah, that's brilliant. I'm such a soft, foggy. If you listened to the previous podcasts on all of that space, I'm obsessed with it. So I just want to ask, moving on from space machines is amazing idea. And you know, fingers crossed, we'll all be watching. And making sure it's, it takes off the way it needs to you have a core philosophy, those that are able obligated to do is that I absolutely love that. So first and foremost, can you explain your philosophy? And secondly, is that where 11.2 has come out? Yeah,

George Freney: 37:03

I think you know, it's something that's resonated in my brain for a long time around that it sort of it's if you've got the mental capacity and the sort of grit and grind to go and do hard things, you should go and do hard things. And, you know, I think it's, I think it's really important, because if people don't tackle really hard things in either the brains and capital behind that, to change the way systems work, the world will not end up where it needs to be. So I think it's sort of like, no, going back to real work comes from like, my dad is a very bright man. Like he topped the state when he was, you know, the equivalent of your 12 in South Australia. And, in the end, became a school teacher, which is a very noble profession. He taught for 30 years at PAC taught math. And, you know, I've met people today where your dad changed my life, so that he's had a significant impact. But I niggles me, because he's a massive environmentalist, and he wants to fix the carbon problem and stuff. And he lives a very frugal, low carbon lifestyle. And I'm like, dude, like, you've got this amazing brain solve the big problem. So I think, as a as a result of that history, I feel really strongly about those who've got the capacity to go and tackle hard things should go and tackle hard things, and not settle for easy things.

Daniel Franco: 38:18

Yeah. Why do you think they do settle?

George Freney: 38:21

Not sure. Fear? I think, fear, comfort, you know, your pursuit of wealth over, you know, like, financial wealth over purposeful, you know, personal satisfaction. Yeah. You know, I'm a big believer that, you know, pursuing purposeful things is what makes you feel, you know, good. And

Daniel Franco: 38:43

I think it's funny you say that story, because it's literally a very topical thing for me at the moment, my old man's quite similar, but in the building and construction game, everyone I know is your I'll bet your boys the best that he's had. He said, he's been in the paper, people have written up me, you know, he's a construction manager for for Metricon homes, this sort of stuff. So he's been in the papers purely from, you know, Rob Franco was the supervisor this amazing yada, yada, yada, all this sort of stuff. And the industry knows him quite well, very well. Yet, and he had his own business, but then put, family first made the decision that I wanted to put all my time and effort into a family, my mum, through her history, had had some some operations and stuff, which stopped her from being able to be as agile as she could. And so my dad decided pronto, my business can go on the site. And so that kind of deep down kind of irks me a little bit. I know that he's done the right thing, what was for him and for us, right, and he's given me all the opportunity, but at the same token, I feel the same but he had he had the ability to do more to do more and you must look at his life now and you talked about your dad living a frugal life. My dad's living a life where he's building chess boards, or is, you know what I mean? And he's sort of now at that point where he kind of looks through my eyes and goes, oh, you know, you're doing, you're doing okay. And I'll start living my, what I was hoping to do through you and interesting. Yeah, it's it is very interesting. So that's why I asked what what do you think is his family's situation that holds people back? And it could be just circumstances?

George Freney: 40:27

And I think somebody you know, I think, you know, to be honest, I think my, my wife would probably love me to put more of my brain power into the family. But my view, but then that would probably be not I'm not happy and feeling. And what impact would that have? So you know, it's like, that's where resentment Yeah, so time is really important, like, quality time is more important than lots of time. And I think that's the balance I'm trying to follow. How do you create enough really good quality time with the family? So you can still be really purposefully pursuing interesting hard things? Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 40:57

When you present your present, I agree with you. Because for me, you know, I've never missed a basketball game for my children. Like, I just, I have to be there. But I know one day as the business grows more and more that, you know, these sorts of things are gonna come out and and start to haunt me. But I really, I really do believe that you can do both. Yes. So.

George Freney: 41:19

And there's something there's something really in that right, there's a really interesting thing. So when you're confronted with two problems that look mutually exclusive, is there any lack? Because you haven't thought about it hard enough to work out how you can have that saying that you can't have your cake and eat it bullshit? Yeah, like, you just need to think it through properly. And I think as you get more experienced, I used to be the I would prioritize a low priority work activity, because I thought it was important over my family. I don't do that. I try and get to all of the things possible with my kids. Yeah. One thing that I struggled with, though in Adelaide and it's interesting is in Sydney, the schooling system, I think was designed for parents for keep families where both parents worked in Adelaide. I'm convinced the schooling system is designed for families where they assume one paradise like, hey, on Tuesday, next week, there's an excursion. Can you come? I'm like, Give me four weeks notice. Yeah, yes. But one, like, I agree. I think it's hard to do it all. But like sports games, you know, I was at my kids scouts going up ceremony last night at 6pm. Yeah, you know, and I think you just gotta go. Right. Unless it's super high priority work. Families got to win.

Daniel Franco: 42:23

Yeah. Yeah. I like that. I like that. I find that

George Freney: 42:31

a little bit odd. Yeah, I think it gets I think it gets easier. Yeah, it gets easier.

Daniel Franco: 42:38

Yeah. Yeah. Cuz the problem I find is I'm so passionate about what I'm doing. I love people. Yeah, I, I've just Yeah, half the time, I feel like I'm, I'm torn. Now moving on from that. You are a human being that loves to solve problems. So you can solve. Maybe you and I can get off offline, and you can solve my family business problems. What is it about solving problems, especially from 11.2 point of view that really makes you sing?

George Freney: 43:16

Well, it's interesting, you go back to that sort of mutually exclusive can't have both things. 11.2 11.2 has been born out of, I guess, all of the experience that I've had up into 2017. We didn't deliberately set out to do this. We just started talking to people about entrepreneurial methods and thinking and how to apply that to problems and finding ideas that fix those problems. So it's like, and then you know, going all the way back to, you know, putting things on a page from Bill Doyle, my year 11 geography teacher like when I'm confronted with a problem, I'm visually starting to try and understand the system of how how it works and how everything fits together. And what ideas have a right to be pursued to go and help solve that problem. And I think when I look back at boodle In fact, I talked to my partner about this a bit. The mistake we made was we tried to solve the industries problem, like so we tried to solve the industry problem for physical retail. So we did a lot of work the shopping centers, we were trying to solve the industry's problem. We didn't solve a narrow enough problem to build a business around the my partner was like JoJo more interest in solving the industry's problem than you aren't doing a business. Yeah, so. But other my philosophy was, well, if we solve the problem, the business will come along. But bit then we actually have to focus on building the business. So I think that's one of my big mistakes I made

Daniel Franco: 44:33

is that when I say you got to go niche, yeah. So focusing on specifics. So yeah,

George Freney: 44:37

so that idea for boodle started very small, it was like send a text send a reminder to someone when they're near shop that sells it. And we raised money and it got very big. We like Oh, I could do all of this. And yeah, one of the key. One of the key traps of you know, entrepreneurs is that they, they go too big, right? You got to solve something really specific. So the whole philosophy isn't is

Daniel Franco: 44:59

it's kind of the heart While you're here, he will just do this as well, right?

George Freney: 45:04

Yes, oh, I can do this with that every time you took some of that, or you could do that with that, and then it gets bigger by default. So when you know, I love, like, I genuinely love ideas and working out whether or not they're worthwhile, right, it's like idea pops into your head, you start going through a mental process to see if it was a good one, talk to a few people have some conversations, do some research, then you know, you might start building something. And I love that. I love it. Because ideas make the future what the future needs to be. Without ideas, the future doesn't change. So ideas are a critical part of life. So I was I, I started talking to some big companies, I was fortunate to be on the IAEA Board. And then after I left the IAEA Board, we started talking to them about this way we think about ideas. We weren't far out there, you think differently. So what we sort of learned was that with the big problems, bases like big complex problems, bushfire resilience, massive problem space, right? Like really expensive to solve bushfire resilience in the hills, how do you go from a big problem space to a discrete problem, which you can build an ideal idea around, build something to try and solve. And then you change the big problem space by moving I call it big mountains, small rocks, like you just start tackling little bits of it. And then over time, you actually change the system. So I think a lot about, you know, we call them systemic global problems around climate change, you know, natural disaster, resilience, energy transition, all of these things, that massive complex problems basis, what we want to do 11.2 is have a model that enables us to shift the needle on those problem spaces by identifying new ideas and testing them and seeing if they're worthwhile and have an impact on.

Daniel Franco: 46:42

Yeah, brilliant. Are you part of the you wake up this morning, you open the financial review, and you see Net Zero Net Zero for carbon, a huge part of the helping the businesses of the world. So I

George Freney: 46:53

would love to get into that. Right. So you know, 11.2, like we sort of we've been doing branding exercise, you know, but the the sort of thinking is, you know, we'd get ahead of the world's problems, like we want to get ahead of the world problems with people who care. So, you know, I described we would never, as a company help someone build AI to sell more crappy rubbish, retail products. They don't need it. Yeah, there are lots of people out there building AI to work out how to addict people's attention to digital devices, so we can sell more to I find that repugnant? Yeah, it's repugnant, like so but, you know, talking to someone about energy transition, and how do we help get electric vehicles out here faster? And how do we transition the world to one where there's no carbon in the planets protected? 100%? We want to we want to do as much of that as possible. And we attract people that have that purposeful mindset into our business. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 47:40

I think that's where my ears perked up. When I heard about what you guys doing, what 11.2 come from the name is, I guess,

George Freney: 47:47

well, so my business partner runs an aerospace engineer, and 11.2 is 11.2 kilometers per second is the velocity something has to hit to escape the gravitational pull of Earth. And it's sort of the name came out of the our experience with boodle was that unless an idea is good enough and has enough fuel to escape Earth's gravitational pool, then it's not worth pursuing. So it's like you might have the best idea in the world on the launch pad, but not enough fuel. Somewhere where you might have the worst idea with a really shit tons of fuel might still get there. So 11.2 is a captures this philosophy of, you know, an idea is only worthwhile pursuing if you can be launched and escape the earth. And we came up with that name emerge before we started thinking about any space projects. That was just by accident.

Daniel Franco: 48:36

Yeah. So on that, because I remember last conversation, which stuck in my mind. And we're talking about big news, because you and I both work in that corporate world, from our businesses outside of this. You said to me, you'll never create an internal capability to uncover and validate ideas properly. Well, the big businesses applies, right. And you pretty mean that can you that that was profound for me, in the sense that you're saying, big business can do this internally. They need someone else to look at this from a different lens. Yeah, that might

George Freney: 49:07

be confronting in some ways, but on adamant about it, and not because the great people were consulted. Yeah, business, but just the cultural setup of them, is not aligned to really transformative idea, thinking and validation. It's just like, the immune system of a big company protects it from that and the risk profile of people. You know, it's like, no one wants to be the executive that tried five things that didn't work. Yeah. So I just think organizationally, instructionally it's really hard, even if you had really amazing people, and then people who are really good at coming up with uncovering crazy ideas and validating them well, they just don't really fit in these big companies. Wait it out? Mutually. So you said, you know, we talk in our business a lot about Navy SEALs. And so we like, you know, the analogy is like we're building a Navy SEAL squad capability to uncover to Take ideas and validate them is really what we want to be brilliant at. And that is a great capability for a large organization to use in a good way. But a large organization shouldn't build their navy seal capability, because the Navy SEALs don't wanna work there. So that's sort of the way we think about that. Yeah. And I think that I'm not an advocate for completely outsourcing innovation, because the knowledge and experience inside these big organizations is actually really valuable.

Daniel Franco: 50:28

Yeah, you're an advocate for enabling. Yeah. So

George Freney: 50:31

there's an enabling augmentation model, right where you bring in. So you know, we did a lot of research, when we were thinking about whether or not 11.2 could go from two people talking to a few companies into a scalable business model around how innovation works. So the models of corporate venturing in an outsourced Innovation Lab in sourced innovation lab, you know, accelerated programs, none of them have really been super successful. So our view is that there is a definite opportunity for a different model, about how you get the right mindset and types of people and capability, working with big organizations to solve problems.

Daniel Franco: 51:07

You train your navy seals, because yeah, there's you and Raj, obviously, you have these great minds, which not so these people you bring in don't have great minds, but more the fact that you've had the experiences, I should say, you know, the failed startups that yeah, startup after Startup Almost? And

George Freney: 51:25

it's a really good question. Because it's the it's one that we are now starting to really think through because we're starting to, I think, validate that what we do make sense. And now we need to start to understand how you build out teams of people that get

Daniel Franco: 51:40

you must start your internal training. Yeah, maybe we need to talk to you guys about that. Well, I think we can talk together. Yeah, absolutely. It's just gonna do the same thing. Finding finding the

George Freney: 51:51

right types of people, right, like the people with the right sort of mindset and endeavor and focus on wanting to be better all the time. And I think it's like, you know, the elite sports person, the essays soldier like the the startup founder that's really charged. Like, there's an underlying, I just want to continuously improve and understand deeper. Yeah. And if that's the mindset of someone to teach them some of the other stuff, I think is is much easier. Yeah. So you've got to find the people that have got that.

Daniel Franco: 52:19

Yeah, absolutely. It's getting the right people on the bus and actively searching for those people creating those avatars of thought or personas that you're trying to attract. Have you ever read a guy other than a Navy SEAL analogy? Have you read the David Goggins book, No, can't see me, I said, I'm gonna use so David Goggins is a bit of an alpha male book rah rah, right, but he's a navy Seal, we tried to get into the Navy SEALs. And he's one of the very few people that have done hell week, three times, or first two times he failed, didn't get through, because one time he fractured his shin and all this, read the book, it's amazing actually listened to the audiobook, because it is in Isn't it because there's podcasts in between. So it's quite an interesting. Listen, if you're a runner, because he's a big run, he is an ultra marathon runner as well, you will, you will really enjoy it. But where I'm going with this is that from a Navy Seal, point of view, if you I feel the same with leadership, I feel the same with everything experienced startup, whatever it might be, if you go into the Navy SEALs, and you try and only the way the Navy SEALs train, then you'll be okay. Right. But if you're not doing training outside of that environment, if you're not continually trying to improve yourself, whether it's you behavior through reading a book, or whether listening to a podcast or getting a mentor or getting a coach or in less us running, if you go to a running coach, and you only run laps, when you go to your running coach and you don't run outside, when you're at home or wake up first thing in the morning, go for a run and put extra effort into me into it, you're never going to be or never Excel, right? And I find the same thing. When looking for people to hire, it's when you're looking for those unicorns almost sure, I'm willing to give it all and put all that time and effort into this year to the work I'm doing. But outside, I'm doing everything in my power to get better and grow and improve. And I think it's such an important,

George Freney: 54:15

I think it's the only way. Because if you haven't got that mindset, like if all you're doing is doing my work, and I change, but like you have to have the mindset of like, I'm just trying to get under the hood of how to be better, right? Like, how do I get better and better and better at these things? You know, I'd voraciously you know it was into audiobooks and podcasts and think and read, you know, one of my favorite ones I read like it was called range which is all about, you know, how, like sort of super specialization doesn't really work around like, you know, I can't there's a great analogy in there like Roger Federer stopped playing tennis until he was quite old. Yeah, yes, except for a tennis player. So it's fun. If you want to be a professional tennis player playing tennis. It's actually statistically in data driven wrong. What you want is people that have got range they really broad and thinking that you traverse different professions and disciplines and ways of thinking,

Daniel Franco: 55:04

oh, there's so much to love about Roger Federer sort of that only took Roger. So you know, we go into that example before where we said family, and you can do both, like Roger Federer is your perfect example plays at the highest, absolute highest level and one of the best tennis players to have ever existed and takes his family with him every day like him. Yeah, and we're just a humble human. But

George Freney: 55:25

yeah, I think there's one thing that I get a lot of people misunderstand about Navy SEAL mindset and training is that the psychological safety and the egolessness that they create is a core component of the ability to operate as an elite team. So it's like, you got to have skills and strength and discipline, but then the psychological aspects of vulnerability, honesty, feedback, psychological safety, you know, getting rid of the ego, and all of these, if you don't have that, it will not work.

Daniel Franco: 55:53

Yeah. Yeah, it's an ecosystem, isn't it really, in your mind? Um, going back to the businesses not being able to do well, not being able to, to grow that innovation piece solely by themselves? Do you? And you mentioned organizational culture, we are a business that works on culture. So that struck a chord with me when you said that because it is 100% true. If you got red tape that's in the way, it's gonna stop you from being able to get things through, you need 16 signatures to get something through all this sort of stuff is part of your culture. When you go into businesses, is that something that you identify straightaway that you can go? You guys are never going to achieve anything? Because clearly you cultures upside down? Look, I

George Freney: 56:35

think that I think lots of them have great endeavors and aspirations to be able to do it themselves. And I think they start a journey of like innovation generally, you know, I use the analogy, if you asked 100 CEOs of big companies, is innovation important that will put the word are you are you comfortable that your innovation investment is yielding results. And there are a lot of them that are committed to highly convicted on that. So I think it's clear that it's hard to fight. Like, if there's a lot of sort of friction in the idea of validation process. It's hard to operate at a pace that enables you to innovate, like startup founders and find new things. And only my business partner, Mark Ogden talks about it. There are only two companies that are sort of rated as been long term innovative, successful, Black and Decker and Apple, like outside of that sort of analysis done but the big four consulting and most companies don't succeed it innovate.

Daniel Franco: 57:28

Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Same Dyson fails a lot, right? Like Dyson is because I love Dyson, but they had a car did you know that that they were building a car, there is a podcast recently, and I'm a Tim Ferriss fan, but he interviewed the owner, creator of Dyson, who is amazing podcast. But he they had washing machines that failed. Yeah, as far. So from an innovation point of view, they're you know, you would think they're front and center, but they have all these other,

George Freney: 57:59

I often use this overnight, you can't rationalize your way to a breakthrough idea. Like you just can't let you go, Oh, this is everything we've gotten here with ingredients. Yeah, that's fine. It's a breakthrough idea emerges. And then you start to post rationalize whether or not it makes sense to pursue, and you're gonna fail. If that's the the only way to find a breakthrough idea is to have an idea. And then pote, like rationalize whether or not it makes by default, you have lots that don't work, that are, I think, is to be able to validate them efficiently and effectively. So it's like, you rule them out appropriately. And you keep them in appropriately. Yeah, so you don't spend too much money on bad ones, and you don't throw ones that could have been good out. Yeah. And the other thing that's hard inside big companies is you start on one idea. And that lets you get to the second idea, which lets you get to the third idea, which lets you get to the fourth idea. So the first three failed. But the fourth one, which you could only get started on because of what you learned from the first three is the only good one. Yeah, that doesn't fit neatly in such

Daniel Franco: 58:55

a big organizer now because they lose their focus quite quickly.

George Freney: 59:00

Someone, someone did say to me the other day is like, George, we want you to be the guy that makes the decision to drown the puppies.

Daniel Franco: 59:07

He said that last time I was about to pull that one out. But you beat me too.

George Freney: 59:12

That's the other thing people like, and it's, there's no criticism on this. I think and this is why I think that what we're doing has a right to exist is because it's really hard inside an organization to create an environment where you can drown the puppy because that was my puppy. I loved that. I've put all my reputation internally on the line for it and all of these. Yeah. So it's just structurally hard to build a culture and an operating environment where it's acceptable to drown a puppy and yeah, I've taken $2 million of resource and two years of time out of seven people to pursue this idea. And now you're stopping it. Yeah. Like, you know, it's very easy. That's a waste of time. So it's really hard to balance those two realities. Can

Daniel Franco: 59:49

you see it straightaway? When you walk in? Can you get them that's not gonna work, or are you at that level or are you hanging on if we tweet, tweet, tweet,

George Freney: 59:56

I don't want to be in the business of providing advice on The strategy and culture of organizations Yeah, other than from the line our job other than the lens of this is what we think we should be doing. And if you want to a team that goes and finds uncovers ideas, tech ideas and validates them for you, this is what we need you to be doing. And I sort of used the term of an innovation engine sounds like he is the part of the engine that we need to do is the part of the engine that you guys need to do. And if you want to uncover ideas and validate them and build a pipeline of IDEA optionality that you might do something within the future, this is how we think it needs to work, you can you know, the organization can then take that and go, I think you should help them with that, you know, builder, a model that supports that engine operator. Yeah, yeah,

Daniel Franco: 1:00:43

we use the word ecosystem, everything, it'll, you know, the old agonist antagonist, if you've moved something over here, something on this side is going to change. So we try to help businesses obviously work out the ecosystem, how it all works. So the forming of the business, what's the vision? What's the purpose? What are we actually trying to achieve to the, to the everyday flow of the business? You know, the systems, the processes, the leadership, they're in place, then the feel of the business? What is the culture feel like? Are we getting along? Are we you know, we working together, we've been encouraging and we, we providing feedback, that sort of space, so they all work together? Right? If process isn't in place and not working, then someone's gonna complain about it right, and then affects the field. And if like, if they're not connected to the purpose, then yeah, it doesn't line in with the process. So it all works in one big Aiko system. I want to I wouldn't mind touching back, I want to go back to the Eddie Mabo. Yep. Right? Because I think what that did do and correct me if I'm wrong, it gave you this really, culturally diverse opinion, or view, not opinion, a view of the way we should work, right. Which is amazing. So in everything that you're doing in that space, thank you. How do we, how do we get more people in the innovation world that reflects the diversity of the overall ecosystem?

George Freney: 1:02:13

Right, good question. But I think you have to be deliberate about it. So, you know, I think that we need to, you know, provide pathways and encourage more people to come into that world. And I don't think we're doing a very good job of that at the moment collectively as an organized as a society. Yeah. And I think there's friction to it. So, you know, I don't know what the right answer to that question is.

Daniel Franco: 1:02:38

Because I don't know if you've listened to the Terry's podcast, he said, Australia. Arizona, Nevada is as bad as innovative. I think they're not racist. I was listening to that podcast. Well, that's a good one. Yeah. It's brilliant. It's true. Because aren't you? You're right. I don't know. I think that what that comment, as is exactly what we're talking about is, what can we do? Yeah, we both working in these worlds where we're working with culture and leadership teams, you're working from innovation and strategic teams on ideas? How do we solve that problem? Right? What what is that something that can be solved now? Or is it you know, or is it the, the mountain in the rocks piece where we stop?

George Freney: 1:03:24

I think it's a system, you know, systemic problem that has to be changed over a long period of time. There's absolutely there's no magic bullet for Yeah. And I think that the world is so different, the world that my kids are growing up in, in relation to sexism, racism, sort of all of these sorts of topics, he's incredibly different to the world we grew up in. So like, I grew up in, in schooling environment, where, you know, there was just like, you know, the indigenous people were not talked about the way they are today. Like, there was no, there was no raps, there was no Welcome to countries there was none of these things were being done in any way, shape, or form. Now, but that's just normal. Like our kids just see that as a normal thing. You know, my kids watch women play football, they watch women play cricket. Like I remember the other day, someone said to one of my kids, why are you watching women play football? What do you mean? Like, like, like, an older person was like, I thought it was weird. My kids. This is normal. Right? This is Yeah. Oh, we live in. So I think I think that change is happening. But I think we need to be deliberate about it. So I think there's still that this requirement to be deliberate about making sure that we have diverse teams and we have diverse thought, and all of the evidence points to the fact that you actually do a better job. Like things work better when you have diverse perspectives and opinions, age diversity, you know, race, diversity, thinking, mindset divert, like all of the types of diversity that you want. And I think one of the interesting learnings when I've joined the board of the IAF, so I've never been on a board of a large organization like that was that that focus on diversity and the need to think about diversity broadly, right diversity of thinking style. diversity of background diversity of ethnicity, diversity of sexuality, all of these layers need to be considered in the way that you're thinking through how you're running these organizations. Well, that wasn't me 10 years ago. So I think the world is changing into a better place. But I think we're way behind. Like, I've worked with a guy who spent a lot of time in America. And you know, the inherent underlying sexism and racism in this country. He's like, wow, it's just like America is miles ahead. In the progressive America. He was from Seattle. Yeah. And I think he's right. You know,

Daniel Franco: 1:05:30

can I ask this my being very naive, Christian and a bit of a dead end question. But do you feel that the the population of America makes it a little easier? I mean, you're 20 odd million here to 320 odd million over there. Like, do you feel?

George Freney: 1:05:48

Probably yeah, there's just a lot more diversity. Yeah, I remember growing up think, you know, there was talking about how multicultural Australia was when I was young. Yeah, this view that this is a really multicultural country. We are so far from like, I remember the first time I went to London, I was like, wow, like, that's multicultural. Yeah, like America, New York multicultural. We're not that multicultural.

Daniel Franco: 1:06:09

We're trying to be something. Yeah. Do. So on this. I you working with businesses on solving this problem. You talk about bushfires and economic and all this sort of stuff? You know,

George Freney: 1:06:20

not? Not Not yet. And, you know, our focus, you know, we were in the business of uncovering and validating tech ideas, right. So you know, we are very focused on tech ideas. If tech can help solve systemic problems, were super keen. I'm deeply passionate about the impact of digital devices on young kids brains, like it's an emerging real problem, like, like, we think cigarettes are crazy today. Yeah, you know, in 20 years time, we'll go What the hell are we all doing, giving kids these devices? I'm very, like, so tech, tech, that helps solve problems of that nature. Yeah. You know, if technology could help solve that really interesting. I love to think about that. Because,

Daniel Franco: 1:06:59

well, that's cool. You've just uncovered a can of worms there because I think China didn't China have just come out? And they're restricting time on children's device?

George Freney: 1:07:08

Yes, they are controlling, controlling the amount of time that people can spend playing games in China. Is that

Daniel Franco: 1:07:14

is that through an app or something? Because you

George Freney: 1:07:17

know, they have such strong centralized control, yeah, digital infrastructure, they're able to limit that you have to put a credential in to get access to play a game.

Daniel Franco: 1:07:25

Oh, wow. Yeah. So that that takes it to an extreme. What do you think we can do as parents to manage the hours that are spent?

George Freney: 1:07:37

Look, it is such an nefariously complex problem. You know, we talk about it on a governing school council online, you know, one of the council members made a great observation that, look, it's the adults that are addicted to the technology more than the kids, it's like a digital pacifier that makes them not have to spend so much energy parenting. So, you know,

Daniel Franco: 1:07:59

I'd say that's a fair comment.

George Freney: 1:08:00

I think that on you.

Daniel Franco: 1:08:02

I do like playing games, though. Like, because I grew up as a gamer when I was a kid.

George Freney: 1:08:05

So and, you know, I think that the games we played when we were kids, like I had oil, panic, and Donkey Kong, you know, they weren't rivers, they were like, your mobile phone, and your computer is connected to a supercomputer designed to addict you to provide attention. So I think there's different categories of games and digital activities. It's the ones where there is a desire to addict your attention. I mean, it blows my mind that people use tick tock, I just, I can't understand because it is a Chinese company with Chinese Communist Party links, that is designed to suck up your biometric data and the environment that you're in. So we have data about where you are, what situation you're in all your facial expressions and everything. And it's designed to exploit psychological weakness to maximize the time you spend on it. When you explain it like that. Does that sound like a good thing to you know, 12 year old? No, Rod? That's crazy.

Daniel Franco: 1:08:58

I thought, because that was there was a big thing that tick tock was no good, you know, this sort of stuff that you know, big brother is watching, so to speak. But then they came out and said no, no, to be showing government or something. No,

George Freney: 1:09:10

no, no, it's not good. It's like genuine like, it's just, it's not good. Like, the only way these companies make money is the exploitation of the data they get from you. And their entire objective is to get more of your time, attention and more of your data so they can monetize it. So you know, we used to play computer games, there was no supercomputer on the other side, trying to predict us to play them. They're just fun computer games. Today. Your kids are playing computer games, and there's underlying gaming mechanics and addictive algorithms and AI that's trying to learn individually on which child how they respond to get more time from Yeah, it is. So and these problems kids brains are just designed to adapt to that. So they just we're just teaching kids to be addicted and there's emerging evidence and sort of scientific research. around, we are training addictiveness in our kids, which means that as they get older, they are more easily addicted to opioids and all of these sorts of things. So there's, there's quite a big thesis emerging that there's this massive addiction wave coming, as this cohort of kids gets into the age where they're, you know, they have access to alcohol and drugs.

Daniel Franco: 1:10:20

Great. I think that's already in place. Again, I listened to another podcast recently, we were talking about using America as an example, just purely by way of numbers. Now saying something like 60% of Americans are addicted to opioids or have prescription opioids, sick, crazy 100 and 180 million people. It's

George Freney: 1:10:45

so you know, I often think about this because I like thinking about a lot. Um, but if you just hypothetical thought experiment, if you're an alien intelligence, observing the planet from afar, you're watching what made me be like, how the hell are they getting stupid? Yeah, like, like, literally, we are getting stupider. As an org, like, as the collective wisdom of society, I think is going backward. We're relying less on science now than we used to, like in 1950. There was a, there was a pandemic flu pandemic in the 1950s. Like, made people just got a vaccine, everyone got vaccinated that dealt with a very sensibly, like, we are worse at dealing with pandemics today, than we were in the 50s. I really like Yeah. And I mean, my view is that it's all social media, right? Social media, is the evil evil thing that stops us progressing as a society.

Daniel Franco: 1:11:38

Hmm. That's it's one good way. It's good for one thing from a connected point of view, but then the addiction and everything else that comes in and the rumor mill,

George Freney: 1:11:47

it's it creates echo chambers, where people get stuck in, like this world where like, they're not quite it's not fact like, and this is say, you know, 30 years ago, it was very easy to understand what the media was telling everyone, because there was papers and TVs and like, so you could understand what the media now there's individualized AI generated content that you will never see. Yeah, and I will never see the regulator will never see. So you don't know what people are saying. Yeah. So it's really it's

Daniel Franco: 1:12:16

very, very nearly see what you're interested in, gives you more of the same story. So those who are anti Vax will see more anti Vax story. Yeah,

George Freney: 1:12:24

so that means to the to the climate change, the impact of digital technology on our brains, they're the two things that and, and the impact of digital technology on how society works. Yeah, those two things niggle my brain?

Daniel Franco: 1:12:38

Yeah, it is. It is very interesting. I think, you know, when we talk about where we are a society, and you know, loneliness and belonging is is rife at the moment, especially in a world where, you know, we're told to keep distance, and stay at home and all the bonding today's that or yesterday was a record the world record for most days locked down by a state, but in Victoria,

George Freney: 1:13:00

I think or something like that. Yeah, really feel for them. Yeah, it'd be really difficult. So

Daniel Franco: 1:13:04

you think about loneliness. And then when you talk about, you know, social media and the impact that it's having, where people can read stories, and, and almost feel part of something, right, feel part of that feel like they're against the New World Order, whatever they're gonna call it like, that, really, I believe, and, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but is just a cry for attention. It's, it's something that's sort of, it's trying to push away the other issues in life, and bring it up and be part of something and give, and so you can kind of see why it happens. Because they're being part of this new way of thinking, and they're fighting against the government. Yeah, you know, we're part of this different crowd, and everyone else is different. But what's going to be interesting is in five years time, what happens to their way of thinking, is this just going to keep going with everything. And so that's the concerning bit for me, because it doesn't start with vaccines. And it starts with lock downs, and starts with conspiracies, and, you know, to anon and all this sort of stuff. And then I can't see this turning around, which for me, you know, talk about aliens driving past it is, it's quite a scary thought, knowing that we we are going in the wrong direction. So

George Freney: 1:14:25

yeah, I'm a great optimist, right. So like, my, my, I'm an optimist. And my view is that we will start to organize and understand like we did with cigarettes, like, like, we start to get out, like we respond to what's happening. And, you know, I think we're entering an interesting age of the, you know, the philanthropic billionaires actually deploying their vast resources for good you know, we do a little bit of work with the Minderoo foundation on fire and flood stuff like the amount of money that some of these people in the world you know, proper billionaires like the cannon Brooks's the FARC was The, you know, the Twiggy forest in Australia, and they are putting most of their money behind solving these world's systemic problems, right? So you're starting to see a shift from like government dealing with that, to actually the private sector will start to get more involved in solving these problems with philanthropic investment. Yeah, that's me, I siding and

Daniel Franco: 1:15:21

windows to the core of giving, I think those who it was funny because in in the podcast that I was interviewed at recently, you know, as part of our 50th special, what one of the questions was, you know, what's some of the learnings that you've taken away, and, you know, you look at the wall there with this of photos of people who've been in the podcast, what I've learned is that really everyone who's playing at the top of the game, you know, you know, majority of people are all in South Australia base, but they're playing at the top of the game playing, you know, people like yourself, entrepreneurs thinking differently, always looking to give was looking to give back, how do we improve? How do we, how do we add to society? How do we solve problems, that's going to be better for humanity? I've yet to have someone in this room, and maybe it's just by choice of the people on picking but I've yet have someone in this room who has any other way of thinking, it's always about how do I give? How do I give and it is, it is quite frustrating, because, you know, we now feel the people sitting up quite high in the world. And they're they're thinking the same thing. But this constant push off, you know, the government is against us, or they're against against against it, is

George Freney: 1:16:35

it that narrative blows my mind? Like, like, I like to think about it like this, please pay me back conspiracy theory. Yeah. Government's involved in if you've ever actually worked in or with government, the concept that they could run a conspiracy? Yeah, is absolutely employees very

Daniel Franco: 1:16:50

fun, because

George Freney: 1:16:52

it is a concept that multiple governments get together Americans, it's just like, give me like, seriously? Yeah, like, how do you keep a secret like that, like, I just made maybe a totalitarian sit state where there's real controls, but not in a democracy? I just think it's important.

Daniel Franco: 1:17:09

It's funny, because 100% I know, there are people within government that I know and follow on social media who are in the anti Vax group, right? So you think and they're the ones against the government you're working with? I cannot figure it out. So yeah, it's a bit strange. Look, we've digressed. We've gone down a world that wonder we waited. We mentioned that I was going to, but we are coming to sort of the hour and a half mark, I really

George Freney: 1:17:37

feel like I could talk for another three hours.

Daniel Franco: 1:17:38

I know I did say it again. Did you watch this could go for a couple hours this one side. But I'm conscious of your time because we've only got a certain amount of time in your diary books. We end up we end the podcasts with what we call quickfire questions, then have a quick fire.

George Freney: 1:17:54

Does that mean I have to answer them quickly? Not

Daniel Franco: 1:17:55

well. It's kind of well, what's the first thing that comes to your head? Yeah, but feel free to that'll because I'll ask more questions anyway, but won't be greatest. Yep. You've mentioned a few books range was one of those that you mentioned earlier. What are you reading right now?

George Freney: 1:18:11

Right now Extreme Ownership odd. Jocko Jocko willing.

Daniel Franco: 1:18:15

So that's why you got the Navy SEAL. Yeah, that's another Alpha. But if there's that you've got the the Navy SEAL thing in your head at the moment. Yeah.

George Freney: 1:18:24

I just love the philosophy of Extreme Ownership, right? Like, back the buck stops with you. Like, just take like, you only thing that you are in charge of in life, like the very like, is how I respond. Yeah, how I take responsibility and accountability. Yeah, I'm in charge of that. 100% gonna embrace that, right. So I'm really interested in diving into that sort of Extreme Ownership concept. I'm only probably a third of the way through it at the moment, but it's interesting.

Daniel Franco: 1:18:52

I have this conversation a lot with people and they say, Oh, that person. Um, you know, it's nine o'clock or two hours into the day and I'm already pissed off. It's like, well, that's on you. Right? That's when you're such and such piecemeal off? No, no, your expectation of such and such is what's pissed you off? Not

George Freney: 1:19:12

really interesting thing in here because, you know, I remember reading some science like I read New Scientist and Scientific American. But there was this is like, your subconscious mind has no context. So if you say, I've got a million things to do your subconscious mind What if you're, like, external narrative, what you're saying to people in your internal one is, I'm tired? I'm grumpy. What the hell are you going to be if you're feeling a bit tired and grumpy and someone says how are best ever wonderful feeling great. Yeah, you might be sort of a little bit not that but you're telling yourself that pushes you in a positive direction or percent now Can I can I tell you about the book I've just finished?

Daniel Franco: 1:19:51

Not Yes. Well, that was gonna be my next question. But yes,

George Freney: 1:19:55

I've just finished reading a book called The politics of doom. Oh, wow. Gaku na Ferguson, he is a historian and historian. And he wrote it whilst in lockdown in response to the pandemic. And you know, you reflect on what's going on now about like, how we've been so stupid. Like, it is so interesting. Yeah, about how the politics of doom and how we deal with these disasters and pandemics and things through all of history, and just sort of the craziness that's going on right now about how we deal with it. So if you're really fascinated

Daniel Franco: 1:20:28

to understand the you like, based on like human behavior, yeah,

George Freney: 1:20:31

a lot of history, human behavior, like how, you know, society responds to these big disasters, manmade, how those Disasters Emergency, as human factors in the end, like most disasters are a result of how humans respond. And society responds not as a result of a virus or a Yeah,

Daniel Franco: 1:20:49

I mean, it's good luck. I'll get on to it. She listened to any other podcast. Oh, look,

George Freney: 1:20:54

I listen to no limitations. Plenum partners, so there's a button partners an executive recruitment firm

Daniel Franco: 1:21:01

there another Adelaide, nothing, Sydney. But anyway, so they

George Freney: 1:21:05

get like, you know, leaders, Australian leaders, like CEOs, chairs, that sort of level of people to come in and talk about their lives. I find that to really interesting podcast. It's similar. Yeah, so this one Yeah, yeah. You should go and the other one isn't a duck's get cold ducks don't get cold feet, the junk.

Daniel Franco: 1:21:23

Now, I'm gonna give this to you. We're getting a jump on this. But

George Freney: 1:21:27

that's my commitment to you, man. I'm on jump. Oh, boy. This is a great chat. You've got to come on this podcast.

Daniel Franco: 1:21:32

I'm expecting you to share this to him. That is great. Beautiful. Yeah, he's got he's got like, he's, he's pretty blunt. Yeah. approach which I

George Freney: 1:21:42

yeah, I No bullshit approach. No bullshit. You know, I love the way he called out the hoarders last year. Yeah. Yeah, that sort of build a platform for him. But he's a really good guy.

Daniel Franco: 1:21:52

He's got a little tick next to his name. Yeah. He's at LinkedIn. Really? What's now this is an Oprah Winfrey core question. And Michelle asked this to me in one of the previous or the one where she interviewed me and I thought, actually, I'm gonna waive this one way instead. So what is one lesson that is taking you the longest to learn?

George Freney: 1:22:14

Oh, that's a good question. One lesson that's taken me the longest to learn. I still think I'm learning it right. And, you know, it's just to be calm and mindful in how you respond to situations. And just to have proper, you know, it Victor Hugo had a quote, The despite the gap between stimulus and response, and just being in charge of that time, you know, I think that's the it's a lesson that I'm not good at. And the and that sort of waves into I have a real sense of injustice when I feel like an injustice is done, particularly a power asymmetry injustice when a powerful, powerful organization inflicts injustice on someone with a lot less power. Yeah, it just triggers me. And so I'm not in charge of that. Like, that's my lesson. I need to I need to be more in control and in charge of my Yes.

Daniel Franco: 1:23:10

Yeah. The power the, the in between stimulus and response. There's a gap and that gap is choice.

George Freney: 1:23:16

Okay. That's it. That's it. Yeah. I love that sound. Yeah. So it's like, sort of aspire to mastering that lesson that's really hard to learn. I think that, you know, it serves all people if they can do it. Well.

Daniel Franco: 1:23:28

Door. I think we've got Oh, yeah, I think that's a lifelong journey. That one there, you get have three people over dinner, who would they be?

George Freney: 1:23:36

Wow. You know, that's a good question. Three people. I've been pondering that one since I've had that question asked to Terry. And I can't wrap my brain around exactly who it would be. Look. Bill Gates fascinates me. Yeah. So you know, I would love to spend some time understanding the brain of Bill Gates would be interesting to ask some questions. Do they have to be alive? No. Who else would it be? You know, Winston Churchill. Remind understanding the brain that was that was Winston Churchill. And I'm assuming my wife's going to dinner with me anyway. So

Daniel Franco: 1:24:15

we'll get we'll give you a fourth person.

George Freney: 1:24:19

I'm sure she'd be interested in having a chat with some of those people.

Daniel Franco: 1:24:23

You've got a few extra points there. Pick that up. No, I never thought about that.

George Freney: 1:24:31

I just think you're saying that you're off to dinner with your

Daniel Franco: 1:24:34

boys hanging off.

George Freney: 1:24:35

You know, I think the other person that I think would be really interesting would be Eddie Mabo. Yes, you know, but read some because that really, really started a lot of thinking for me. So that would be great.

Daniel Franco: 1:24:50

Let's do Bill

George Freney: 1:24:52

Doyle. Yeah, that's a good I would love to, you know, you've got me there. I love to have dinner with him and be able to articulate to him the impact that he had on my life would be a true privilege and pleasure.

Daniel Franco: 1:25:06

Yeah, yeah. Good. Once you get back, what is some of the best advice that you have? You've received? Best advice I've received? Well, I mean, other than the bill,

George Freney: 1:25:18

yeah, no, I think that, you know, it's an interesting piece of advice in, in the business world, you know, and I think in all walks of life, actually, in all relationships, you know, you have to have relationships with people, you know, to get anything done, whether it's family, friends, work, relationships, driver, and if you focus on the things that are positive, and you like about people, and not the things that you don't, it's just much easier to have a good relationship. Yeah. So it's like a choice to focus on what you like about people, not what you don't like about people?

Daniel Franco: 1:25:50

Yeah, 100%, I got given. I got, I was getting some coaching. And I remember, a coach at the time said to me, he goes, because I was telling him about someone who was annoying me and frustrated. And this person's frustrating, I'm finding it really hard. And this is years ago, this is before my business started. So no one in the business thinks it's them. And and I remember he turned around, he said to me, do is that person giving it their best? Right? And and? And I said, Yes, I think they are. And he goes, Well, it's really hard to be angry at someone who's really mean at best, giving it their best. Giving you the best with what they've got, as well is probably another key element to that. And he goes any further, if they are giving their best, and you don't believe that they're to the standard, then there's an opportunity for you to put your coaching hat on in that space, and help educate and help grow and help them see different perspective. Yeah, I should. It was brilliant. And

George Freney: 1:26:52

I completely agree. There's something I can't remember where I was, but 99.9% of people are doing the best they can with the tools they've currently got. And so therefore, it's like, help them think more.

Daniel Franco: 1:27:03

I think it's a Brene Brown thing. It happens a lot. It is right, if you had access to a tire machine. Mm hmm. Where would you go?

George Freney: 1:27:12

Oh, man. Jeez, that's a good question. I just I'd have to go to the future. I just want to give you a couple 100 days in the future, I want to say what happened? Yeah. And I've got Oh, my thinking my thoughts. I'm bad. Yeah. Take me to the future. Yeah,

Daniel Franco: 1:27:27

you will make injured and despite everyone says go back

George Freney: 1:27:32

to millenia future.

Daniel Franco: 1:27:34

Yeah, I can read about it. I don't

George Freney: 1:27:36

know what the future holds. Yeah, not I'm fascinated with it.

Daniel Franco: 1:27:38

Yeah, brilliant. Is there a particular point? i You said three 400 years? What do you hope to see in that time?

George Freney: 1:27:44

You know, I would love to see some genuine breakthroughs in science that we currently don't think are possible. And you know, I have a really thin view, I sort of subscribe to the view that everything is possible. We just don't yet know how. So you know, go back to like, and a truism of science is that we generally disproved that which we thought was factor at the time. So it's like, you know, maybe we've solved time travel in fear for 100 years, maybe we've solved you know, maybe we solved maybe we understand this multiple universes and we can move between them. I don't know. Like, I would love to see where we get. Yeah. I love the idea of the infinite universe. Yeah, like there's an infinite number of universes. Yes. Yeah. Right now

Daniel Franco: 1:28:23

somewhere else in the universe and having the same conversation with one word different. Correct, right. And then, you know, like,

George Freney: 1:28:32

there's a binary choice between one and not every permutation of everything is existing in a different parallel. Yes. I sort of think that that might be possible.

Daniel Franco: 1:28:39

I think so. I think I need a couple of ones. If you had one superhero power, what would it be?

George Freney: 1:28:49

Ah, look, I just reckon I would love to be able to remain calm no matter what is going on. I'm having a very spirited, spirited seven year old and like, seriously, like, not more than a day or two goes passive. Geez, I wish I was calm. Yeah. So yeah, it'd be like calm no matter what's happening. Yeah, it would be nice to

Daniel Franco: 1:29:10

see stimulus response thing, right. It's coming back. We're still learning. Right? My favorite. What's your best dad joke? I'm terrible. Jokes. Say the one we wrote with my kids is Knock knock. Who's there? Europe. Your your family. Yeah, I heard it. I did up. I do that. Boom. Brilliant. Thank you very much.

George Freney: 1:29:42

Could he be one more minute or something I forgot to talk about. Yep. So as part of our space machines company, it's a plug. We are running a mission to the moon called lunar ascent. It's its ambition is to be the first Australian mission to the moon. So everyone you know most people remember the moment we won the America's Cup. Yeah. Yes, I am by Australian design Australian crew, we won the America's Cup. Our ambition in 2024 is to be the first group of organizations to go from Australia on an Australian rocket with an Australian spacecraft and take Australian satellites and put them in orbit around the moon. And we want to use that as a way to inspire the nation and the indigenous community connected all together in a way where we all appreciate the importance of space to the future.

Daniel Franco: 1:30:23

Oh, that's amazing. How can we didn't touch on that?

George Freney: 1:30:26

I'm not sure. A lot to talk about.

Daniel Franco: 1:30:29

Next year,

George Freney: 1:30:30

we could really do a podcast on that one topic.

Daniel Franco: 1:30:32

Yeah, we're probably gonna go credit our podcast show. No, brilliant. Thank you very much, George. That's, that's great. Well, actually, one question was gonna be as I finish off, what does the future look like for you, but it sounds like you've got a pretty

George Freney: 1:30:47

look man, if I can, if I can get the balance right of managing purposeful fun projects and find a way to do as many of them as possible to effect change on as many systems that need to be changed as possible and, and get the family you know, bring up a awesome family paradigm and dynamic. Were really happy family and Bill, you know, raise purposeful, good kids that would fill me with delight.

Daniel Franco: 1:31:10

Brilliant. I love it. Awesome. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for everything you're doing in the in the in the world of entrepreneurship in the world of spice business innovation, how sort of pace and keep up the good work by and can we follow you on LinkedIn George

George Freney: 1:31:28

journey for any LinkedIn, I'm actually interesting fact the only George for any on planet Earth. People with that name. And you say, Yeah, LinkedIn, Twitter, wherever you find that your friend is highly likely to be me. Yeah, Fre me, but with one e FRENEY.

Daniel Franco: 1:31:46

Brilliant. Thanks. Thanks, everyone. Take care

George Freney: 1:31:49

Cheers. Thank you.

Synergy IQ: 1:31:51

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