#137 Donny Walford, Founder of Behind Closed Doors on Breaking Barriers: Leadership, Resilience, and Redefining Success

🎙️ What does it take to break through barriers and redefine what’s possible in your career and life?

In this empowering episode of the Creating Synergy Podcast, we sit down with Donny Walford, Founder of Behind Closed Doors, a trailblazer in business and a fierce advocate for women in leadership.

𝐇𝐞𝐫𝐞’𝐬 𝐰𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐰𝐢𝐥𝐥 𝐤𝐞𝐞𝐩 𝐲𝐨𝐮 𝐡𝐨𝐨𝐤𝐞𝐝:
 
▶︎ 𝐅𝐢𝐠𝐡𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐖𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐘𝐨𝐮 𝐃𝐞𝐬𝐞𝐫𝐯𝐞 - Twice denied a promotion, Donny turned the tables—and won. Her story will leave you asking: What’s stopping me from taking my shot?
 
▶︎ 𝐄𝐪𝐮𝐚𝐥𝐢𝐭𝐲 𝐒𝐭𝐚𝐫𝐭𝐬 𝐚𝐭 𝐇𝐨𝐦𝐞 - How Donny’s upbringing shaped her fearless leadership style.
 
▶︎ 𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐏𝐨𝐰𝐞𝐫 𝐨𝐟 𝐍𝐞𝐭𝐰𝐨𝐫𝐤𝐢𝐧𝐠 - “It’s not just what you know; it’s who knows you.” Learn how to stand out.
 
▶︎ 𝐄𝐦𝐩𝐨𝐰𝐞𝐫𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐖𝐨𝐦𝐞𝐧, 𝐓𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐬𝐟𝐨𝐫𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐅𝐮𝐭𝐮𝐫𝐞𝐬 - How Donny is mentoring the next generation of leaders.
 
"𝘋𝘰𝘯’𝘵 𝘭𝘦𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘣𝘢𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘳𝘥𝘴 𝘣𝘦𝘢𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶. 𝘛𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘸𝘢𝘴 𝘮𝘺 𝘮𝘢𝘯𝘵𝘳𝘢, 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘐 𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘩𝘢𝘷𝘦 𝘪𝘵 𝘵𝘰𝘥𝘢𝘺." – Donny Walford

This episode will make you question your limits and inspire you to step into your full potential.

Are you ready to break your own barriers and redefine success?

Tune in now!



TIMESTAMPS:

00:50 - Leadership and Emotional Regulation

08:18 - Breaking Gender Norms in Childhood

18:43 - Overcoming Workplace Challenges and Winning Promotions

28:36 - The Power of Resilience: "Don’t Let the Bastards Beat You"

29:58 - Tackling Imposter Syndrome and Backing Yourself

46:45 - Networking as a Career Game-Changer

47:31 - The Impact of Visibility in Hybrid Work Environments

52:06 - Setting KPIs for Networking and Professional Growth

59:52 - How Women Can Build Confidence and Seize Opportunities

1:09:16 - Raising the Next Generation of Leaders



Where to find DONNY WALFORD

• Linkedin
• WEBSITE

Join the conversation on Synergy IQ on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram (@synergyiq).

Access SynergyIQ Website to get to know more about us. 


#CreatingSynergyPodcast #Leadership #Resilience #BreakingBarriers #ListenNow

Transcript

00:00:09:27 - 00:00:38:24
Daniel Franco
So welcome back to the Creating Synergy Podcast today. Joining me, I have Donny Walford, a trailblazer in Australian business and the founder of Behind Closed Doors and Bottom Line. And she has decades of experience in executive roles, boardrooms, mentoring, you name it. And she's not only dedicated to her career to driving transformational change, but also empowering women to step into leadership roles, recognizes one of South Australia's most influential people.

00:00:38:24 - 00:00:46:28
Daniel Franco
Her work has shaped the industry's inspired leaders and is creating a very long lasting impact. Thanks for coming on.

00:00:47:01 - 00:00:50:08
Donny Walford
Donnie It's my pleasure. It's been a long time coming, Daniel.

00:00:50:11 - 00:01:13:02
Daniel Franco
It has been. We've been trying to have you on for a while. Obviously, there's been some personal stuff that we won't go into today. I'd like to start off the podcast always around sort of understanding who the who the person is sitting in front of me. So what do we need to know about Donnie's earliest contexts? Like, who are you?

00:01:13:02 - 00:01:14:22
Daniel Franco
Where did you come from?

00:01:14:24 - 00:01:17:03
Donny Walford
So do you want me to go back before work?

00:01:17:03 - 00:01:18:12
Daniel Franco
Before from.

00:01:18:12 - 00:01:20:13
Donny Walford
Okay, so I grew up a tomboy.

00:01:20:14 - 00:01:21:06
Daniel Franco
A tomboy?

00:01:21:08 - 00:01:49:11
Donny Walford
Yeah. There you go. Yeah. And I. I was great at footy and cricket and. And I played all my growing up years until I went into secondary schooling and I was told off by the teachers to to tell me that I wasn't allowed to play footy or cricket with the boys and that's when I read it. Now it was a real shame and I grew up in the wrong era cause I should have been in this era where we've got the AFL and.

00:01:49:14 - 00:01:54:01
Daniel Franco
It's coming out. I grew up playing with Aaron Phillips actually.

00:01:54:03 - 00:01:54:27
Donny Walford
my God, Yeah.

00:01:54:27 - 00:02:13:29
Daniel Franco
So yeah, she's, she's amazing. So she played for West Lakes and I played for Henley Sharks. We were rivals and she was dominating the league. She back then, but at 13 she wasn't allowed to play any sports. There was no girl competition and that's why she took up basketball, which she obviously had to.

00:02:14:03 - 00:02:18:15
Donny Walford
And then she was amazing. That is right. I'd say she'd be amazing in anything she tried.

00:02:18:16 - 00:02:20:12
Daniel Franco
She's an athlete, right? Yeah. Well, that's a shame.

00:02:20:16 - 00:02:47:05
Donny Walford
Yeah, that was a shame. But anyway, so. Yeah, high school wasn't for me. I mean, I was. I was good at other sports. I played all the sport, but it was. It was my love was footy. So anyway, then I entered the workforce in an odd way too many years ago in Savings Bank of South Australia, which became the State Bank which became Bank saying and I was there for all those iterations.

00:02:47:05 - 00:03:14:09
Donny Walford
So I had a 20 year career which I broke around the four year mark and lived in the UK for two and a half years. wow, very good. And then when I returned, it was the time that the the bank had lost a lot of people from five years to ten years, mainly men who had gone on to different careers and they were ringing a so personal department at the time.

00:03:14:09 - 00:03:35:08
Donny Walford
Now people in culture were ringing all of the males to ask them to come back because they had this huge gap of skills. And I heard about it. And so I rang up the head of retail banking and said, You can't discriminate between males and females. You should be ringing the females to come back as well. And he said, Come in for an interview.

00:03:35:08 - 00:03:41:08
Donny Walford
And I didn't know I started back in banking. So it was 20 years ago. Yeah, well there go. And then.

00:03:41:08 - 00:03:42:19
Daniel Franco
Before we go on to next.

00:03:42:22 - 00:03:43:12
Donny Walford
Yes, I want.

00:03:43:12 - 00:04:01:26
Daniel Franco
To keep the theme of the early years before we dive into the rest of your career. We will get a chance to go through your career. Yeah, but I'm interested in when you talked, you said, Tomboy, I haven't got this out of my head, so I'm told. So what? What shaped that? Was that your upbringing from your parents?

00:04:01:26 - 00:04:03:19
Daniel Franco
Let's tell us a little bit about your parents. Well, my.

00:04:03:19 - 00:04:30:23
Donny Walford
Mother said my mother drove a car, My father didn't. My mother built us a pool table at work classes. My father never did any building. Yeah. So, Mum. So I grew up thinking males and females did whatever they did. And it wasn't a role for females to do this and a role for my dad. So. So mum was I guess, the role model on women can do anything.

00:04:30:26 - 00:04:31:29
Daniel Franco
So true equality, right?

00:04:32:03 - 00:04:44:20
Donny Walford
Yeah. Yeah. And then my, my brother was only a year older than me and I used to and my sister was three years younger, so I used to play with my brother and his friends. Yeah, not sport.

00:04:44:20 - 00:04:45:12
Daniel Franco
Would be there.

00:04:45:14 - 00:05:06:25
Donny Walford
So sport was the thing. And, and I remember being eight years old and my brother and the next door neighbor who was the same age male, they tried to get away from me. I climbed the ladder to get up on this roof and I climbed the ladder. And as I got up, they climbed the ladder down as fast as they could.

00:05:06:25 - 00:05:26:04
Donny Walford
And I thought, I'll jump on. So I jumped off this roof and as I'm coming down, I'm thinking, I have no idea how I'm going to land. And I landed like stiff straight. And then I just stood there shaking for I don't know how long, and then thought, I can't tell Mum and Dad, they'll kill me for jumping off the roof.

00:05:26:06 - 00:05:27:25
Donny Walford
And then when I was 38.

00:05:27:26 - 00:05:28:23
Daniel Franco
I did, you.

00:05:28:25 - 00:05:50:25
Donny Walford
Know, when I was 38 I had a new chiro and he said, is this you? Walford? And I and I, I thought he was having a go at my name. And, and I said yes. And he said, When did you fracture your neck. and I said, No, I haven't. And he said, yes you have. And he's the old fracture and he has all the spurs that are coming off of it, blah, blah, blah.

00:05:50:29 - 00:06:12:05
Donny Walford
And it would have happened probably, you know, 25, 30 years ago. And then I went, Would this have done it? And I told him, Well, I just told you. He said, Yep, that would have done it. So could you imagine that if I if I had gone and said there's something seriously wrong here, I wouldn't have been I wouldn't have been put in cotton wool, I wouldn't have been playing sport.

00:06:12:05 - 00:06:16:24
Donny Walford
I did karate, I didn't hit bowl, I did squash, I did a play. Do you ever.

00:06:16:24 - 00:06:18:02
Daniel Franco
Have pains in your life?

00:06:18:05 - 00:06:19:11
Donny Walford
I had pain every.

00:06:19:18 - 00:06:21:28
Daniel Franco
Anyone who play sport has pain everywhere. Yeah.

00:06:22:00 - 00:06:24:12
Donny Walford
Yeah. But wow, you know.

00:06:24:15 - 00:06:25:17
Daniel Franco
Did it hurt at that time? Do you.

00:06:25:17 - 00:06:26:20
Donny Walford
Remember? yeah.

00:06:26:22 - 00:06:28:14
Daniel Franco
And you're just like, I'm not telling anyone about this.

00:06:28:15 - 00:06:33:05
Donny Walford
No, no, We shouldn't be climbing off. Jumping off.

00:06:33:08 - 00:06:34:29
Daniel Franco
You blame your brother, though.

00:06:35:02 - 00:06:41:22
Donny Walford
Well, no, I didn't blame anyone. I just. I just thought I'd be smart beating them down so early on.

00:06:41:22 - 00:06:49:01
Daniel Franco
Was there signs? I mean, obviously, the growing up in a world where there was no sort of gender in your household.

00:06:49:01 - 00:06:59:13
Donny Walford
So I'm primary school. I went to a Catholic primary school and the boys and the girls, there was no distinction. We played with them. We played in the yard with them. We did sport against them like.

00:06:59:15 - 00:07:00:23
Daniel Franco
That here locally in South Australia.

00:07:00:25 - 00:07:19:26
Donny Walford
Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So there was no there was no distinction. It was only when I got into secondary schooling and it was girls do, do some boys do that in like your first 12, 13 years of life where you were brought up like there was no distinction. Yeah. And then all of a sudden there was it.

00:07:19:28 - 00:07:23:23
Daniel Franco
Did you find yourself getting righteous about it or upset about it?

00:07:23:25 - 00:07:31:12
Donny Walford
no, not at all. I just I just didn't fit. And so I went to five years of secondary schooling. I just didn't fit at all.

00:07:31:16 - 00:07:33:01
Daniel Franco
Because you were getting put into.

00:07:33:08 - 00:07:37:06
Donny Walford
Well, you, you, you're in a box and I don't know to I don't belong in boxes.

00:07:37:11 - 00:07:54:18
Daniel Franco
I mean, anyone does. So. Okay, so the writing was on the wall that you were clearly not you're clearly slightly a different thinker of the time as a younger as a younger child, you were thinking differently. You're like, why are we why am I being treated this way?

00:07:54:21 - 00:08:19:11
Donny Walford
Why? Why, why would you treat anyone differently? I like so. So it was more I guess in some ways that's where I started my rebellious ninth year because I was a strict, you know, disciplined and stay by the rules, you know, brought up as a Catholic as well. And you brainwashed into that sort of religion. But then you hit secondary schooling and it wasn't a Catholic school.

00:08:19:15 - 00:08:33:08
Donny Walford
So it was the first time I heard the F word, it was the first time I saw rebellious behavior. But and I guess I was rebelling against the system that didn't treat males and females equally.

00:08:33:16 - 00:08:37:15
Daniel Franco
So rebelling in what way?

00:08:37:17 - 00:08:56:11
Donny Walford
I just I guess I didn't follow the rules of conventional rules, but I still. Well, no, no, I was never I was never naughty. I, I just I guess I think I the way I rebelled was I just shut down. Okay. You know, shut down for the whole five years.

00:08:56:11 - 00:08:57:10
Daniel Franco
Disconnected.

00:08:57:12 - 00:08:59:21
Donny Walford
Yeah. Yep. That's a good way. It is what I did.

00:08:59:26 - 00:09:13:11
Daniel Franco
So So let's talk about how then how does that transition So obviously you go off into the banking world, go overseas, experience life. Cool. Come back, come back to Australia. What happens from there?

00:09:13:13 - 00:09:43:18
Donny Walford
Rejoined the bank and got married and married and the men that I went overseas with who was English and then and then they when the new managing director of the new State Bank, the merger of the Old State Bank, which is a regional bank in the savings bank to become the State bank, the managing director, which was Tim Marcus Clark, asked Where are all the women and where all the young people in management?

00:09:43:18 - 00:10:01:17
Donny Walford
Because these were the days when women just before I joined the bank, women had to resign when they got married. So there are a few women who never told the bank they got married so they didn't have to resign. So when you when is that real yet? But when you got pregnant, I can.

00:10:01:17 - 00:10:02:28
Daniel Franco
See the look in her.

00:10:03:00 - 00:10:12:28
Donny Walford
Face when you got pregnant, you had to resign. And there was little waves of not showing that you were pregnant. So so that so that was in the late seventies. Is this.

00:10:12:28 - 00:10:13:28
Daniel Franco
Just banking or is.

00:10:13:28 - 00:10:40:25
Donny Walford
This? Nor is any government department or semi-government. So so the state savings Bank State Bank was classed as a like a statutory authority. So it's like waters your south south stream power networks which used to be it's earning is all of those statutory if if women got married they had to leave and then when they changed that rule, it was when you got pregnant you had to leave, you had to resign, not leave.

00:10:40:27 - 00:10:50:15
Donny Walford
What was the who knows who knows? That's why there's not so many women in leadership roles in those sorts of organizations. It's weird. It is more, Well.

00:10:50:17 - 00:10:59:05
Daniel Franco
Yeah. Do you know when you look back on social media and you see some of the old newspaper articles? Yes, that's what that reminds me of. You just go. What? This is ludicrous.

00:10:59:07 - 00:11:28:18
Donny Walford
Yeah, definitely. But. But there were the days that you only got promoted by years of service, so you didn't have to have any capability, any skills, whatever. You got promoted on years of service. And the only way you could jump level was if you had a degree and you could jump one year. That's it. So there were only many management, so there were three and a half thousand employees and not one female manager.

00:11:28:21 - 00:11:31:20
Donny Walford
So that's why he said we're all the women and we're all the young people.

00:11:31:20 - 00:11:36:16
Daniel Franco
Designed by men to empower more men is what this. Yeah.

00:11:36:16 - 00:12:03:20
Donny Walford
But I mean these are archaic. It's ridiculous as well. So anyway, the good thing out of that was that the the h.r. Area had to develop a fast tracking program to bring graduates. We never used to bring graduates in from university. So bringing graduates all different disciplines as well as see who were in the retail network that they could put on this fast tracking program.

00:12:03:20 - 00:12:34:05
Donny Walford
It was two years and I was nominated by my regional manager to to go into the program and that that was that was the change of my career because I just I got six promotions in two years. And one of the stories that you'll get will so I want the, so my first manager role now this is after many years of never being promoted and being held back a bit, doing the job of everybody else.

00:12:34:09 - 00:12:52:29
Donny Walford
Like I could do anyone's job because I used to get bored, get my job done within 2 hours, and then do everyone else's job know just to stimulate, well, keep myself stimulated. And so the first promotion that I was encouraged to go for was the manager of a a call center. And there were no call centers in the state.

00:12:52:29 - 00:13:19:23
Donny Walford
We were the biggest at the time and just sit up and and it was a level six and you, you, your career in management starts at level four. So level four, Level five. No, don't go for that. Go for six and and I got the job and then men in the bank appealed against me getting the job, even men who didn't even apply for it.

00:13:19:28 - 00:13:40:28
Donny Walford
And I thought the bank would tell them to, you know, get stuffed, get lost. And the the bank didn't. And the bank allowed the appeal to go ahead. So I had to reapply for the job I already got. And not only reapply for it in the bank, it went out to a national headhunter for anyone in Australia and to go for the role.

00:13:41:01 - 00:13:49:08
Donny Walford
And I won it again and against the national well, and it was the first time they've ever gone national for a job. Well that was.

00:13:49:11 - 00:13:51:01
Daniel Franco
Did you give them the up yours.

00:13:51:03 - 00:13:54:02
Donny Walford
Well I gave them the wheels by getting it again.

00:13:54:04 - 00:13:56:20
Daniel Franco
And then how does that how does that sit with you.

00:13:56:20 - 00:14:16:04
Donny Walford
At that time I my whole mantra was just just prove yourself, prove yourself, prove yourself, and that, you know, and then they came out on the floor and I have to prove myself to anyone any more. You know? But but, you know, that was that was how I used to. Don't let the bastards beat you and and prove yourself.

00:14:16:08 - 00:14:45:04
Donny Walford
So one year in that role, I was asked to go for another promotion, which was to run one of the largest retail branch branches, which was Naude and one week after being in that role, the state bank collapsed and I received a phone call from the head of Australian banking to come in on the Sunday morning before it was all announced and and we had to ring every one of those three and a half thousand employees.

00:14:45:04 - 00:15:06:29
Donny Walford
So I had to borrow my old team from the network and anyone I knew to come in and men phones and by the 6 p.m. that night we'd rung every or left messages for every one of those to say Tomorrow expect a run on funds. So that was probably the benchmark of what's the worst thing that could ever happen or has happened in your career to that date?

00:15:06:29 - 00:15:27:05
Donny Walford
Was that state bank collapse? Because the next day I'm back in Node Branch and every single Italian and Greek person who had money with the bank was lined up and we had so many runs of the the armed guard to bring in cash because we lost so much money. It wasn't funny.

00:15:27:09 - 00:15:28:04
Daniel Franco
What was the reason?

00:15:28:04 - 00:15:42:11
Donny Walford
And they all went to the bank. I think because I was scared that it collapse of the bank and the collapse of the state meant that they were going to lose their money. So they they wanted to take their money out and put it in a bank they thought would be safer. And that was CommBank.

00:15:42:15 - 00:15:43:24
Daniel Franco
And that was the rise of CommBank.

00:15:43:29 - 00:16:01:17
Donny Walford
But it was like people hated us for that for about two years. And you could well imagine the media at that time was like, you know, this is going to this is going to be your kids and your kids kids and your kids, kids, kids paying this debt off. You know, we lost $4.2 billion in the end. That's it.

00:16:01:17 - 00:16:20:22
Donny Walford
That's no mean feat. We didn't even know what $1,000,000,000 was. You know, a little on 4.2. Anyway. It was it was a tough time, but it was also career turning for me because the bank we separated the bad assets called the bad bank and the good bank and the good bank was now you have to go out and re rebuild the bank.

00:16:20:22 - 00:16:50:24
Donny Walford
And instead of you coming on your hands and knees pleading for a loan, we came to you as a as a customer, potential customer. Please stay with us or please come and take out a home loan with us. Any sort of loan just to rebuild the business. And that's when they wanted salespeople, they wanted transformational people, whatever. And I ended up running this major transformation program where I wanted to take every piece of paper off a desk, and I called it platform banking at the time.

00:16:50:27 - 00:17:15:04
Donny Walford
And I was this this was not the end of the eighties. 91 was no, perhaps the eighties. No. Yeah, we were the only bank I put every I, I had a formula so it was either could we eliminate it? So if we didn't need to do this, let's eliminate it. The next was if we couldn't eliminate it, could we simplify the processes?

00:17:15:09 - 00:17:37:17
Donny Walford
And as soon as we simplified the processes, we stuck it online. And then then it was educating. And I started with five branches who wanted to pilot all the change. And then all the friends were saying, Well, can you come into our branch and do it to us? And yeah, the whole the whole bank went onto personal computers and no other bank had that done.

00:17:37:20 - 00:17:45:01
Donny Walford
It was amazing, amazing. Trailblazing innovation. Yeah, it was. And I loved it. And it was just.

00:17:45:05 - 00:17:52:09
Daniel Franco
How difficult was that change I had in a time where, you know, computers weren't prominent?

00:17:52:12 - 00:17:52:24
Donny Walford
No.

00:17:53:02 - 00:17:54:03
Daniel Franco
How difficult was that?

00:17:54:03 - 00:18:01:24
Donny Walford
And the most difficult was trying to get the branch managers to use computers instead of writing things on it.

00:18:01:27 - 00:18:04:01
Daniel Franco
Like it's a it's a massive change.

00:18:04:06 - 00:18:27:22
Donny Walford
So as education, I had a lot of champions around the bank who were younger people who would just, thank God we've got these change. And I'd say, Look, if you don't want the change, we can bring it back in three months time. Yeah, it's fine. And they never want it back, obviously, but they my greatest fear overall was it would do them out of a job.

00:18:27:22 - 00:18:50:08
Donny Walford
And what we were trying to do is put you in more in front of a customer to spend more time with the customer. The more time in the back office doing the administration side of banking. And it was fantastic. And yes, so so that was that was I think that's how I got noticed, because I had to present in front of board.

00:18:50:11 - 00:19:09:10
Donny Walford
I had I was in my early thirties, I had to present in front of board, I had to present in front of executive. I had a steering committee that was headed up by all of the major chiefs in the bank. So I've got great exposure and and nothing was off limits at all. Brilliant. It well, it was brilliant.

00:19:09:16 - 00:19:09:24
Donny Walford
When you're.

00:19:09:24 - 00:19:12:13
Daniel Franco
Dealing with the battles still then like, you know, the naysayers.

00:19:12:16 - 00:19:25:22
Donny Walford
So my whole life Yeah. And as a woman the only way you can get promoted is by sleeping your way to the top. I don't know if you know that, but that's that still happens today, unfortunately. But I remember this guy.

00:19:25:23 - 00:19:27:08
Daniel Franco
Tongue in cheek.

00:19:27:10 - 00:19:47:10
Donny Walford
I remember this guy walking across the bank with me. His name was Chalk. I don't know what his real name was, but recording Chook. And he said, Tony, if you if all the rumors are true and you've slept with as many men as you've rumored to sleep with, I want your autograph. And I thought, I know I've got some money.

00:19:47:12 - 00:20:06:19
Donny Walford
Yeah. So you know, and that's when you just thought, yeah, lose, lose, they lose all the nice guys and, and you know when, when they say about you really understand who your friends are like all the people that I grew up in the bank with that I thought would be supporters of mine with the worst nice guys.

00:20:06:20 - 00:20:11:26
Daniel Franco
And how did you manage the internal battle when you've got people saying that, look.

00:20:11:29 - 00:20:19:01
Donny Walford
You can't focus on that, it would destroy you. So I just focused on proving myself achieving.

00:20:19:07 - 00:20:20:04
Daniel Franco
And you had no.

00:20:20:09 - 00:20:28:08
Donny Walford
There was nothing like behind closed doors. There was no me, no coaching. The only coaching you got was when you knew, when you were told you were doing something wrong.

00:20:28:10 - 00:20:44:14
Daniel Franco
But good for young and up and coming late. Like that's that's hard to do with like I don't me personally, I don't like when someone's angry at me, let alone when people are talking shit about me in the back like that. Had you had had did you compartmentalize?

00:20:44:15 - 00:21:25:21
Donny Walford
Look, I've, I've always the way that I've always dealt with everything in life is by exercise. That's, that's my outlet. But I, but I also deal with it with humor. And I remember one of my when I was promoted into senior management and I had one woman manager and 12 miles, so 13 branch managers. And not long after I took over the the the regional job, this female, her husband died and I spent months sitting with her at night to make sure she was okay.

00:21:25:24 - 00:21:54:00
Donny Walford
Keeping the the the, the, the friendship at bay. We became friends after we both left the bank. But but I wanted to make sure she was okay because she was early forties I think, or late thirties when she lost her husband. Anyway, the rumor then went around that we were lesbians like. So no, no longer. I'm sleeping. My way to the top with my I was on I'm a lesbian anyway I thought how am I going to tell this woman like he's lost her husband?

00:21:54:03 - 00:22:11:13
Donny Walford
This is the rumor that's going around about us. And so I thought I just have to tell a story. So I went to Branch and I said, Look, I just need to tell you that this is the rumor that's going around about us. And she said, I don't even know where lesbian is speaking. And and I thought, you know what?

00:22:11:13 - 00:22:26:16
Donny Walford
That that's the way you have to deal with all of these societies just with humor and so when you say so, how do you deal with it is like don't make their problem my problem. And when it becomes my problem, then I will deal with it.

00:22:26:19 - 00:22:29:13
Daniel Franco
Yeah, but it's an it's almost like an attack on your integrity, though, is it?

00:22:29:19 - 00:22:38:26
Donny Walford
And that is the one thing that is my one true value. You, you take my integrity and this will end in tears, but I won't be the one.

00:22:38:29 - 00:22:39:19
Daniel Franco
And I think that's.

00:22:39:19 - 00:23:03:03
Donny Walford
Toughened you up though. Do you? I mean, you know, business is a tough business and being, you know, the pointy end of senior management, executive CEO board roles, you've you've got to be tough. It's it's a tough world and and it helped build my resilience and I just wouldn't let the bastards beat me. It was my total mantra And I teach women this today.

00:23:03:09 - 00:23:24:22
Donny Walford
You have to have a mantra that helps you cope, but also I have, you know, coaches and mentors and peer groups that you can tap into and feel safe to be a be open and honest about the what you what you're going through and have strategies and tactics of of how to cope. But my coping was always exercise and it still is today.

00:23:24:26 - 00:23:26:19
Daniel Franco
What was the mantra at the time?

00:23:26:21 - 00:23:29:05
Donny Walford
Don't let the bastards beat you. Yeah.

00:23:29:07 - 00:23:29:29
Daniel Franco
I love it.

00:23:30:01 - 00:23:44:20
Donny Walford
There's an a non-Italian, a Latin saying and it's something like, Don't let the turkeys get you down or something like that. And I just used my own words like, don't let the bastards beat you. And I'm and I'd still have that mantra today.

00:23:44:26 - 00:23:48:21
Daniel Franco
Who are the bosses now, these days?

00:23:48:23 - 00:23:58:00
Donny Walford
Bosses don't have to just be men, by the way. No, no, no. Yeah, yeah. And I don't have the issues I used to have.

00:23:58:03 - 00:24:03:08
Daniel Franco
So the mantra is like, when? So who are you fighting against when you say that now?

00:24:03:10 - 00:24:07:11
Donny Walford
Well, I don't. I might be somewhat direct.

00:24:07:14 - 00:24:33:24
Daniel Franco
I go into that. So I mean, what's really interesting is that, again, it seemed as if there was an attack on your integrity in in regards to those rumors that were swirling. You've been able to compartmentalize, manage it in a way of not I don't want to let these biases get me down, but then there's an element of feeling like you're enough, if that makes sense.

00:24:33:24 - 00:24:36:27
Daniel Franco
Like there's now the imposter syndrome that might sneak in as.

00:24:36:29 - 00:24:58:29
Donny Walford
Ever as a leader. My mum. My mum could do anything. I could do anything. Yeah. I've never when when, when women say about imposter syndrome and they've achieved so much and I just don't understand when they you can, you can prove what you've done to yourself and you know what all your achievements are. How on earth can the imposter syndrome be there?

00:24:59:02 - 00:25:10:18
Donny Walford
And but it is and in women that would surprise you if I told you some of them. But I I've just never had that issue. I've always backed myself of always that myself.

00:25:10:18 - 00:25:15:00
Daniel Franco
So what's your advice for those who do suffer from it? Because it is there.

00:25:15:06 - 00:25:36:29
Donny Walford
You have to you have it's a mindset thing, so you have to just reaffirm constantly on the things you can do. Don't worry about what you can't do, and there's plenty of people who can fill the gaps, but just just reaffirm, go over what your achievements are. Reaffirm what you you've done well and and don't let that little girl's voice get inside your head.

00:25:36:29 - 00:26:03:25
Donny Walford
And this is another great quote that says your head is a bad neighborhood. Don't go there alone. I'm so sorry. And it's impossible to have a negative and a positive thought at exactly the same time. So make sure that if a negative thought comes in or that imposter syndrome or whatever is happening, then make sure you replace it with a, you know, two or five positive thoughts and it knocks the negative one out.

00:26:03:25 - 00:26:05:14
Donny Walford
Yeah. So I was.

00:26:05:14 - 00:26:23:12
Daniel Franco
Taught as a child, I grew up playing a lot of sport as well. So I was taught as a child that there is a difference between what's in your head and what you say to yourself, if that makes sense. So what's in your head is I'm not good enough. But then if you actually just say, No, I'm fucking good enough yet, correct.

00:26:23:13 - 00:26:25:25
Daniel Franco
Right. Like it it actually over.

00:26:26:03 - 00:26:28:13
Donny Walford
Yeah, that's right. That's a positive.

00:26:28:15 - 00:26:29:05
Daniel Franco
Yeah.

00:26:29:08 - 00:26:29:24
Donny Walford
Yeah, yeah.

00:26:29:24 - 00:26:41:07
Daniel Franco
So I think. Yeah. I mean taught there's something about that because when you're in the sporting field and your body is about to give up because you've got no more energy and you're like fucking keep going. Like I can't.

00:26:41:10 - 00:26:42:09
Donny Walford
You can keep going.

00:26:42:09 - 00:26:43:01
Daniel Franco
You do.

00:26:43:01 - 00:26:43:17
Donny Walford
You, right.

00:26:43:21 - 00:26:58:10
Daniel Franco
You just find that extra game. And I guess that really comes in all aspects, doesn't it, really, from a work perspective to getting up on stage and talking in front of people like all this imposter syndrome, It is about self-talk.

00:26:58:13 - 00:27:17:00
Donny Walford
And it's it's a lot about fear as well. Like I know over the years people have told me that they'd rather jump into a pit full of snakes than speak in public. And I think really, but once you once you get out there and you practice in, you practice, is it nervous and uncomfortable? Yeah, but there's techniques to get over that as well.

00:27:17:00 - 00:27:31:05
Donny Walford
Yeah, but John, I've even had people say to me recently, I'd rather put myself in the eye with a pin then then network. I'm going, that's a mile saying that. Yeah, well, you know, that's fear.

00:27:31:06 - 00:27:46:15
Daniel Franco
Jerry Seinfeld did a really funny quote on that. He said, The number one fear in the world is public speaking. The number two is death. So he said so at a funeral, most people would rather be in the casket.

00:27:46:17 - 00:27:50:03
Donny Walford
Speaking about someone's. Yeah, but why?

00:27:50:06 - 00:27:55:10
Daniel Franco
Why on that? Why are people so scared of networking then?

00:27:55:13 - 00:28:12:18
Donny Walford
Like what? I think it's the well, women have said, what if I run out of things to say? And I always say, I've never heard of a woman who runs into things to say. But but I think it's I think it's, you know, walking into a room full of males in suits is is like, what do I say what I said?

00:28:12:18 - 00:28:16:28
Donny Walford
Just ask them questions and ask them questions on what they love to talk about.

00:28:17:00 - 00:28:18:24
Daniel Franco
What's your price? You just walk up to people.

00:28:18:24 - 00:28:23:14
Donny Walford
Yeah. Yeah. But you you I've networked all my life, even when I was little.

00:28:23:15 - 00:28:29:17
Daniel Franco
But you can walk into a room now. Come on. Like, look, I know you and I know your type.

00:28:29:17 - 00:28:30:23
Donny Walford
And when on my time.

00:28:30:23 - 00:28:41:17
Daniel Franco
What I mean by that is you're well-established, right? And you're well known and you're you walk into a room and people gravitate towards you so you don't have to try.

00:28:41:17 - 00:28:58:24
Donny Walford
And I always think that people are gravitated to people who look like they're having fun. Yeah. So if you have I always I set an objective, what do you want to achieve? Do you want to go in and meet someone? And that's interesting. Do you want to go in and have some fun? Do you want to go in and try and get a piece of business out of this?

00:28:58:29 - 00:29:32:01
Donny Walford
Well, whatever it is, what? I have an objective. I always go in. I want to have fun. Even if I'm tired, I want to go home. I just think go and have some fun. Yeah. And because you've got that mindset, then you naturally have fun, laugh, and people do gravitate to that. And I remember one of my members has been with me for a very long time, came in from Sydney and it was it a and it's a great function and I was it was towards the end and I was laughing my head off and, and she literally ran over to me and she said, my God, I want to know who you are.

00:29:32:01 - 00:29:45:10
Donny Walford
I want to know what you do. She said, You look like you're having fun. I'm drawn to people who have nothing she's having. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she's still a client of mine today. And this was, gosh, over ten years ago.

00:29:45:14 - 00:30:05:04
Daniel Franco
I was taught by a mentor of mine from a networking perspective that and it's it's something that stuck with me. And I actually do this everywhere I go. You know, the old family barbecue that you don't want to go to. And so I take this philosophy there as well. It's like I said, I want to find out something new about someone who I've never met.

00:30:05:09 - 00:30:06:10
Donny Walford
Yep. Good. Right.

00:30:06:10 - 00:30:06:22
Daniel Franco
And that's.

00:30:06:22 - 00:30:11:09
Donny Walford
It. That's a great objective. Yeah. And and as you go into a networking function like that. Correct.

00:30:11:12 - 00:30:31:11
Daniel Franco
Just I want to find out. And so when I take that to family functions is I just want to find out something new about that person. Yeah. So, so you can engage in conversation. It gives you a reason to ask questions. And if you remember the book, How to Win Friends and Influence People, I'll never forget in that in that book there was the coming around.

00:30:31:14 - 00:30:57:24
Daniel Franco
You could sit there and speak to someone at a networking function for an hour and you could speak for 5 minutes and they could speak for 55 minutes and they would walk away from that conversation thinking it was the most enlightening because you've just sat there and listened to them the whole time. And so to your comment of what there are women or people who say, I don't know what to say, it's like actually listening is the better quality.

00:30:57:27 - 00:30:58:29
Donny Walford
Ask, ask you.

00:30:59:02 - 00:31:00:16
Daniel Franco
Ask good questions, correct?

00:31:00:16 - 00:31:21:14
Donny Walford
Yeah. And and what sort of questions? I said, well, what people love to talk about is themselves and all their organizations. Yeah. And as women you can go deeper into like I always like to ask the question said of what do you do? I always say, What do you do when you're not working? Or what do you do when you're having fun?

00:31:21:17 - 00:31:47:10
Donny Walford
And it takes him out of work into usually family or friends or hobbies or something. And then the thing is to try and find as many commonalities as possible to see whether there's you want to stay with that person or you keep on networking. Yeah. And even if you really like the person, you know, exchange cards or a LinkedIn and and keep on moving because you're not there for an hour or two just to speak to one person.

00:31:47:10 - 00:31:58:00
Daniel Franco
Yeah, I start the podcast, every single podcast. I start with. Tell me about your context, your earliest contexts. So I almost use that as my thing.

00:31:58:00 - 00:31:58:27
Donny Walford
Yeah, it's.

00:31:58:29 - 00:32:16:09
Daniel Franco
About yourself and, and you give them the opportunity and when you say tell me a little bit about yourself, they they respond in either two ways I'm a father or a mother of two, or I've got this and I've got that. And you go and in my head on straight away I've got a human.

00:32:16:11 - 00:32:16:25
Donny Walford
Yeah.

00:32:16:27 - 00:32:31:19
Daniel Franco
Whereas they go, I'm, I'm CEO or I'm a project manager or whatever, they go into work and I go, okay, I've got someone who's career focused and you can kind of pick up straight away that type of and you just mold your conversation.

00:32:31:21 - 00:32:34:18
Donny Walford
It could be someone who doesn't want to talk to you personally, correct?

00:32:34:18 - 00:32:53:21
Daniel Franco
Yeah, But I always get there. I think, yeah, that's kind of my goal is like, I'm going to find out how many kids I'm going to find and you know, where you play, like where your kids buy sport and all that sort of stuff. Like I, I think if you're going with that, I want to get to know you as a human, not just who you are as a in your working life instrument.

00:32:53:25 - 00:32:54:21
Daniel Franco
I think.

00:32:54:24 - 00:32:56:04
Donny Walford
That's clever.

00:32:56:06 - 00:33:14:03
Daniel Franco
Goes a lot further. Rightio. Now you've dedicated your life to empowering women and obviously 20 years ago you started Bottom Line and behind or past 20 odd years ago, you started a bottom line and behind closed doors. What was your what inspired you to start?

00:33:14:03 - 00:33:39:20
Donny Walford
What was that banking career where being the only female in senior management, it's lonely at the top for everybody, but it's more lonely for women because there's fewer of us. So I didn't want other women to go through what I went through and and learn. Learn The mistakes I learn were later, you know, in forties and fifties, I wanted I wanted women to learn those those same lessons earlier with the support of other women.

00:33:39:22 - 00:33:56:02
Donny Walford
So so I just invented behind closed doors on what I missed out on in my banking career. And then after that, like after that, there was still no coaching, mentoring, investment in me from any, anywhere I went. So in, in government.

00:33:56:03 - 00:33:57:11
Daniel Franco
Nine behind closed doors.

00:33:57:13 - 00:34:22:16
Donny Walford
I made it up. Yeah. Just I wanted a name that meant meant total confidentiality. Totally. And I looked up and this is before church, and I looked up and Googled anything confidential and. And Chatham House rules wasn't right because anything. Chatham House because that means you could talk about what was said, but not a cheap attribute who said it.

00:34:22:20 - 00:34:43:27
Donny Walford
So that didn't work. And anyway, I was I was in the car and I was listening to the radio and the reporter said behind closed doors, discussions were held in Canberra today and I went, That's it. And then I went straight and registered the name. Brilliant. Yeah, that was exactly what I wanted.

00:34:43:29 - 00:34:49:16
Daniel Franco
And what was your ultimate vision for behind closed doors?

00:34:49:16 - 00:35:12:27
Donny Walford
When I wanted long time ago now, but I wanted to get at least 25% of women onto Australian boards, so that was the ultimate vision in the way I thought I'd do. That is getting more women into executive roles, more entrepreneurs running their own businesses and scaling their businesses. So there was a bigger pool to draw from for board.

00:35:13:02 - 00:35:36:16
Donny Walford
And then by creating, you know, this national network of women, it would there's a big pool there. So when men now come to me and say, I've been talking to recruiters and I need a a female CFO or whatever for this board, I say, how many do you want? Yeah. Because I say the recruiters told them there aren't any, and that's because they are lazy.

00:35:36:16 - 00:36:12:11
Donny Walford
They don't get out and meet people and whatever. So I've got and I'm not saying all recruiters are lazy, but when they say there's no one that's lazy and I've got lots of recruiters, male and females, who have been amazing at supporting women, but we need we need a lot more. We need a lot more males supporting women, but we need a lot more organizations investing in women and investing in their professional development, as well as recruiters not putting people in boxes and and and taking, you know, there's a great network of women who and they will not come to you.

00:36:12:13 - 00:36:30:29
Donny Walford
That reticent is a confidence thing I think where they won't come and tap you on the shoulder and say whenever you've got another board position or a promotion or whatever, I want it, I'll expect you to hit them on the shoulder because they're doing such a great job. But as you know, they're not on the radar and they won't be tapped generally.

00:36:31:01 - 00:36:32:29
Daniel Franco
Because there's no one is right.

00:36:33:01 - 00:36:34:25
Donny Walford
Yeah, but what's the.

00:36:34:28 - 00:36:36:18
Daniel Franco
At 25% was your goal.

00:36:36:23 - 00:36:40:17
Donny Walford
Move. So we're sitting at 30 so the goal.

00:36:40:21 - 00:36:42:23
Daniel Franco
Is 50% and ASX listed.

00:36:42:25 - 00:37:03:23
Donny Walford
No, no, no. It's sitting around 21 to 23. really. Yeah. I mean we, we get to the 30 and then we go back, we get to the 32 and we go back. So we keep sitting around that 20 to 25% get to our 30 because there's, there's you know, there was a lot of noise around this in the last decade.

00:37:03:23 - 00:37:08:12
Donny Walford
I don't hear the noise anymore. I don't hear about getting ya remember.

00:37:08:14 - 00:37:16:15
Daniel Franco
Yeah, I remember five or six years ago, the ICD conference, it was very much around how do we get a quarter quality? And yeah, you don't need it anymore.

00:37:16:15 - 00:37:20:15
Donny Walford
No, you don't. It's yesterday's news.

00:37:20:15 - 00:37:21:27
Daniel Franco
Why do you think that is?

00:37:21:29 - 00:37:51:00
Donny Walford
Well, because there's something else now. There's domestic violence is now the big thing. So so unfortunately, we don't we don't keep focusing on what's what's important and keep it So domestic violence, I hope that that stays as is being one of the important things for ever, not just for now. Yeah. It's not just, you know, the same with getting more women into executive and CEO and board roles.

00:37:51:02 - 00:38:06:07
Donny Walford
We've stopped the conversation. When you stop the conversation and you stop the reporting on it, then people just don't focus on it anymore. So we can't lose these important focus areas we've got to keep. And that's, you know, that's me. I'm I haven't stopped that.

00:38:06:09 - 00:38:10:18
Daniel Franco
So how do what do we do to get that back from front of mind?

00:38:10:20 - 00:38:39:28
Donny Walford
Yeah, I think I think this, you know, similar to what I've already said, we've got to have more males promoting and investing in in females in their organizations and talking about women to others so that and also what I'm trying to do is get women to get on right on the power of building networks. Most of the promotions that happen on the boards are in organizations come from networks, either internal or external.

00:38:40:00 - 00:38:59:19
Donny Walford
So so if everyone had on their position description, a KPI that said networking, I'd do it. But it's not never been on any position descriptions. So they don't do it. And women will have lots of excuses of why and they're all valid excuses and like family and kids and being an Uber driver and all of this sort of stuff.

00:38:59:23 - 00:39:20:18
Donny Walford
But they need to invest time, which means making in this schedule, whether it's during the day or not. They don't have to have the head down and bum up all day long achieving and they have to build those networks. And networks, as I say, are internal as well as external. But you have to be on people's radars because don't forget you.

00:39:20:19 - 00:39:21:27
Daniel Franco
It's relationship building in there.

00:39:22:02 - 00:39:53:09
Donny Walford
It's that's like when I when do workshops on networking my first and my own female, I say, I want you to write yourself, introduce yourself to me, but I want you to also write yourself out of ten zero being low and ten being high on networking and write yourself 0 to 10 on relationship building, though don't go seven or eight on their relationship building and they'll go one or minus one or two or something pathetic on the networking sites.

00:39:53:09 - 00:40:23:27
Donny Walford
Exactly the same at the end of when they do it, and no one's given themselves a ten out of ten or an eight out of ten for networking. I go to same thing. So call it if you don't like the word networking, call it relationship building, but go out and build relationships and maintain them. And I remember being in after I left Bank, I went into Morgan Banks recruitment and headhunting, and I remember offering roles and not only be a salesperson, well, how about an account manager?

00:40:24:00 - 00:40:40:15
Donny Walford
I you know, I'd be happy with that same thing. I don't like the word sales, call it account management. Now some of this is at risk. So. So you'll be a retain a plus commission? No, I won't work on commission. Okay. What about a bonus? You know, on a bonus you think. Whatever. Yeah. It's the same sorts of same stuff.

00:40:40:15 - 00:40:52:06
Donny Walford
It's just how you can reframe it in your own mind. But seriously, most of the people that you speak to have got onto boards will say it's because of their networks, not because of anything else.

00:40:52:09 - 00:40:58:04
Daniel Franco
I grew up with my old man in my ear saying, Then it's not what you know, it's who you know.

00:40:58:09 - 00:41:01:02
Donny Walford
When I say it's not what you know, it's who knows you?

00:41:01:02 - 00:41:01:27
Daniel Franco
You know who you know.

00:41:02:03 - 00:41:08:08
Donny Walford
Because you can know a lot of people if they don't know you and you're not on their radar. Yeah, doesn't matter. Yeah, yeah.

00:41:08:11 - 00:41:11:28
Daniel Franco
Yeah. True. You can know a lot of people, but you're still a dick, right? So.

00:41:12:00 - 00:41:38:06
Donny Walford
Well, it's a little invisible. And that's that's why hybrid working, particularly for women, is not good. I were invisible when they were at work. And now that they're working from home, most of the time they're totally invisible. So much discussion happens around the watercooler, you know, going into the kitchens or just just being in the same office. So many more side conversations that you miss out on working.

00:41:38:06 - 00:41:44:01
Daniel Franco
I have not thought of it that way. It's so your almost an advocate against.

00:41:44:03 - 00:41:58:02
Donny Walford
No I'm I think hybrid is the majority should be at work so what we do is we do Monday Tuesday at home Wednesday Thursday Friday in the office so that week we get the best of both worlds. You? Yeah.

00:41:58:06 - 00:42:33:22
Daniel Franco
How as a leader like I run a business. Gabs, what would you say? Be 80% female? 80 to 90% we're predominantly female. Obviously this is there's two sides to this coin writing in. And you said about male support. How do I, as a leader of a business with, with that percentage of females continue to support and promote, Is it is it sort of are you saying that I should build in KPIs for networking, networking or relationship building?

00:42:33:22 - 00:42:34:24
Donny Walford
Yeah, absolutely.

00:42:34:27 - 00:42:40:06
Daniel Franco
And so in. But more As for what though, for what's the benefit of why.

00:42:40:12 - 00:42:40:26
Donny Walford
Won't you.

00:42:40:29 - 00:42:42:15
Daniel Franco
Sell that to the team? Well, it's.

00:42:42:15 - 00:43:23:04
Donny Walford
To two things. One is they're building their profile, their personal brand and the brand of your organization because they still representing you, your organization. But they, they the they'll build their confidence in their networks as well, but also invest in their professional development because that's that's another way of networking. Yeah. And meeting Yeah and so but but but relationship building is a way of finding out information your your your organization organizations rely on information and you don't have to get it all from books and degrees and whatever.

00:43:23:04 - 00:43:46:18
Donny Walford
A lot of information comes from speaking to people. So if you do it as go and find out what's trending in our industry or, you know, go on, go and speak to people about what the biggest challenges are in business. So, you know, like different yeah different ideas. But and and so they go out there and have these conversations That's networking.

00:43:46:20 - 00:44:10:24
Donny Walford
Yeah. The amount of knowledge that you get by talking to people like you, you are the same as me. You ask questions and you get amazing. And then it's amazing how it just stays. And when people start saying about anything, you can you can basically have conversations on anything with anyone. It's an annual or I always like to add value to all conversations.

00:44:10:24 - 00:44:26:24
Donny Walford
So if I can add value about what I've picked up to someone else, I mean, it is it's like a network building exercise in itself. You know, on LinkedIn, for example, it works, you know, in these face to face conversations so well.

00:44:26:27 - 00:44:50:25
Daniel Franco
The quality of your conversation is based on the quality of your questions. There's no doubt like that is absolute fact. I guess I want to go back to that point around a KPI, around networking right? I can just if I'm looking into the future and I turn around and I say, Right, everyone, we're putting in KPIs, I want everyone to attend networking functions or learning or learning development functions or or.

00:44:51:02 - 00:45:04:17
Donny Walford
So what, what outcome do you want? Do you want them to to, to bring information and knowledge back to the business or do you want them to say work out what your outcomes? Yeah, like go out networking for what reason?

00:45:04:17 - 00:45:30:03
Daniel Franco
Yeah, because. Because that would be then the response would be like, well, we're not in silos. We don't want to be like. But so for me, you're right. We have amazing humans in our team who are leading the way in how to go about through change through through change in business, right? The people who I have in my team are far superior in thinking around change than what I am.

00:45:30:06 - 00:45:50:25
Daniel Franco
And I almost think it's a travesty that they're not out there speaking enough about it. Right. Like it it we had this conversation in our marketing meeting yesterday about myself and Kylie Barlow, who's been on this podcast many a time talking about, and she does keynote after keynote, but I'm still out there telling her every single day, Get out there.

00:45:50:25 - 00:45:52:22
Daniel Franco
Like, what you have to say.

00:45:52:26 - 00:45:53:22
Donny Walford
Has amazing is.

00:45:53:22 - 00:46:05:01
Daniel Franco
Amazing and people want to hear and people don't understand or see that perspective. And but it's, you know, she might do it once or twice. There might be a nod post here or there. And it's got to be every day.

00:46:05:01 - 00:46:30:18
Donny Walford
It's good. All KPI. Kim for her, for example, can be, I need you to do one presentation a month externally if I like it with people and then I want you to do one online. Yes, something like that. But that's networking, right? Yeah, but that one, she's sharing information, but imagine how much she could bring back and add value to, you know, her head presentation.

00:46:30:18 - 00:46:33:06
Daniel Franco
And I'm just using her as one person. But I'm talking about this.

00:46:33:06 - 00:46:57:22
Donny Walford
I'm doing I've been looking at what outcome do you want out of each of them? And then like for example, with GAM, you could say, I want to I want you to understand more around AI and how that can work for marketing. So now go and speak to some people in in that regard who are in marketing. So that to outcome like that, she has to go out and find that information, not go on to achieve it.

00:46:57:25 - 00:46:59:09
Daniel Franco
Yeah. So it's about how we.

00:46:59:12 - 00:47:23:09
Donny Walford
Look at the outcome for outcome. In what outcome or outcomes do you want out of them establishing relationships and networking and, and some of it might be I want I want three things that we don't already know. But back to this organization. So that's your outcome. Brilliant. You know, can be anything. It's so good, but make making sure it's adding value to your business.

00:47:23:09 - 00:47:49:18
Daniel Franco
Yeah, I mean, because I, I always Look, I'm a sales guy, right? Like my, my background is sales and I had another sell and but I have also always had the idea that sales is done by relationships same thing. And so naturally when I say to the team, come on everyone go out there. And it always comes across as potentially a sales thing, then wants us to go out and mingle so they can bring.

00:47:49:24 - 00:48:07:24
Daniel Franco
But it's it actually is always coming from the perspective of actually the more and more people know who you are, the more and more it raises your brand, right? The more and more people are likely to connect with you the benefit it has on the business. Right. So there is a business benefit, but it does both. So it's a win win.

00:48:08:01 - 00:48:32:03
Donny Walford
Exactly. But you know, one likes that hard sales pay. No. You know, no one. But but I don't go out to get business. I go out to find information and add value. And just because of that, people will say, I want more of that. Yeah. And that's and so they say, So is this something that would be good for me, you know, whatever.

00:48:32:04 - 00:48:35:19
Donny Walford
Correct. And and, or.

00:48:35:21 - 00:48:37:18
Daniel Franco
You're there to challenge their way of thinking.

00:48:37:20 - 00:49:01:23
Donny Walford
Exactly. But also with behind closed doors, as an example, behind closed doors isn't for everyone. And everyone is, in fact, behind closed doors. So in a way, you're interviewing people to decide what with a way, right? Or maybe just one on one exit coaching and mentoring is right for them. Or maybe it's something that we don't even offer that I can refer them on.

00:49:01:25 - 00:49:37:17
Donny Walford
So I'm trying to determine are we the right fit for them and they're the right fit for us anyway, in in all. Yeah. And if it's if it's just because I want to find out information, then, you know, to help my knowledge for example, I will that that's, that's my objective for going out and meeting with people. But I always find some of the best ways of networking is by doing presentations, getting on panels, or doing a keynote and talking about an area of passion or or area that you've got great knowledge on that you can share.

00:49:37:19 - 00:50:07:09
Donny Walford
And people will remember it like years and years later will say, I've or I always remember what you said, blah blah. I can't remember what I said, you know, ten or 20 years ago or whatever. But they do. And then when you when you connect at some way, shape or form, wherever you are, and they say that that's gold, and then you never know whether that's going to lead and it might not be them that becomes client it, but they will recommend you to others.

00:50:07:11 - 00:50:10:13
Donny Walford
And that's gold. Yeah, and that's the networking.

00:50:10:20 - 00:50:22:10
Daniel Franco
And the pair of well-chosen words to, I think the amount of times I've had people coming to me, as you said something to me three years ago that still sticks with me to this day. And I'm like, I don't remember I was having that conversation.

00:50:22:13 - 00:50:28:27
Donny Walford
But it's it's it must have been powerful to them and that's wonderful. So why do so many.

00:50:29:00 - 00:50:36:24
Daniel Franco
Men hesitate in this support then? In a support role like I think just coming to my point to.

00:50:36:24 - 00:50:39:27
Donny Walford
Ask men, I don't know the answer. Yeah, well.

00:50:39:29 - 00:51:02:03
Daniel Franco
I'm kind of trying to ask the question to myself, going off your point of, of the outcome. And yeah, I'm thinking about just the networking thing previously to this conversation. As of 20 minutes ago, I would have thought me putting KPIs in front of people for networking was something that they didn't want to do. Does that make.

00:51:02:03 - 00:51:27:18
Donny Walford
Sense? Yeah. Yeah, it does, because the word networking scares them. And. And what you've already said your your team. Arnold salespeople, I don't think they need to network, so call it relationship building is your KPI for whatever outcomes you want it. I look men have naturally networked internal and externally. I've always seen men in the you know, where the decision makers are.

00:51:27:18 - 00:51:53:22
Donny Walford
You see men and I had heard the head of a NAB here once I became quite friendly with and she moved to Sydney and changed banks and she and I was talking to her about, you know, how, how, how have you your first three months gone. And she said, Do you know, don't you always talk to me about networking and, and women networking, men networking better than women?

00:51:53:22 - 00:52:30:24
Donny Walford
She said it's it's proven. She said, I've been here for three months. I've had every male come into my office at one point to tell me who they are, what they do, introduce themselves, whatever. Not one woman has come into my office in three months, not one. So she was surprised. Why? Well, because women think if they put their head down and they bump up and they go like crazy and achieving and whatever, you notice them and you you go to them, that doesn't happen so that men understand you've got to get in front of someone.

00:52:30:27 - 00:52:34:18
Daniel Franco
Do female leaders see that?

00:52:34:20 - 00:52:47:02
Donny Walford
So most of the female leaders and board directors that I know who's got successful careers will say the number one difference that made them successful was their networking.

00:52:47:06 - 00:53:12:09
Daniel Franco
I won hands down. Agree with that. My question is, is if there is a female leader, CEO of a major corp or whoever this NAB person was it anyway women go to was the would they see that the the females doing the work and and then approach them. No no. So it's in the matter the agenda at the top of the tree you still got to get out there in front of them straight.

00:53:12:16 - 00:53:15:10
Daniel Franco
Yeah. Okay. So that's a big wake up call.

00:53:15:12 - 00:53:38:06
Donny Walford
Because it's not the CEO, for example. It's not the CEO's role to go and see who's doing a great job that they got. They got tens of thousands of other things that they got to think about and do. But it is a male, for example, talked about a female that was doing an amazing job. That's that's like acting as a sponsor.

00:53:38:06 - 00:54:03:22
Donny Walford
That's amazing. But if males don't talk about what females are achieving or even other males are achieving in their teams and they're taking the credit for everything that's happening, know that's that's where it stops. That's and that well, that's that I mean that's life. That's business, right? So if you're not talking if you don't have a sponsor that talks, you up, then you've got to do it yourself.

00:54:03:25 - 00:54:19:01
Donny Walford
But males and females do it differently. Like females cringe at the thought of going and telling someone what they've done, like what they're achieving or how they succeeding. They just cringe. Why don't you why don't you.

00:54:19:02 - 00:54:22:06
Daniel Franco
Why don't you cringe at that? Like, what makes the how.

00:54:22:06 - 00:54:23:10
Donny Walford
Do you I.

00:54:23:12 - 00:54:24:27
Daniel Franco
How did you overcome that hurdle?

00:54:24:28 - 00:54:34:00
Donny Walford
I, I let well, I just got in front of the right people. I, I presented what I did. You know like that.

00:54:34:02 - 00:54:43:23
Daniel Franco
You've obviously like if we if we're stereotyping here we're saying females don't do this and men do this, how did you break them out? Like what?

00:54:43:24 - 00:54:46:05
Donny Walford
Because I grew up a tomboy. Yeah.

00:54:46:07 - 00:54:49:10
Daniel Franco
So does that is that the best copy? The answer.

00:54:49:12 - 00:55:23:22
Donny Walford
What was the answer? I but I didn't I didn't see myself any different. I've always networked. I watched the males. I thought, what are the mouths doing differently to the females? The big thing was networking. The second thing was letting people know what you are doing or coming up with ideas like, I. I was always visionary, still styling, but I was I always talked about what we could do and what we could achieve, and I didn't care who got the credit for it, just wanted that objective of achieving and getting things approved.

00:55:23:24 - 00:55:47:11
Donny Walford
Yeah, driving thing like I'm a driver. I thought if I, if I don't drive things and I don't and, and I get bored very quickly so I need to keep on changing. And so but a lot of people don't like change. I get it and whatever but I do so so because I was always in front of people with ideas and ways to improve and whatever, I got noticed.

00:55:47:13 - 00:56:13:15
Donny Walford
Yeah, but I, the way you do it is different to men. Men, men can say I did this or did this or did this and I did this and it's fine. But women don't like doing that. And and so instead of saying this, what I do or what I've done, what I've achieved, it's presenting things. Yeah. So I did it in a presentation style rather than disagreeing.

00:56:13:15 - 00:56:14:26
Donny Walford
Yeah, that's the difference.

00:56:14:26 - 00:56:16:23
Daniel Franco
Yeah. They had something to back it up.

00:56:16:25 - 00:56:18:29
Donny Walford
And then and they had to back it up.

00:56:19:01 - 00:56:25:02
Daniel Franco
So what's your advice then to women first? You know, overcoming that hurdle.

00:56:25:05 - 00:56:47:26
Donny Walford
Will get known, get on radars and, and don't ask for permission. When we started on that France trekking program, there was a psychologist who came in and said, How many of you will ask for permission before you do anything? And half put up their hands and half didn't. I didn't. And then how many of you ask for forgiveness?

00:56:47:26 - 00:57:06:18
Donny Walford
And I put my hand up with the others and he said, don't do either. Don't ask for permission. Don't ask for forgiveness. You think it's right? You think it's a great idea. You go and innovate it. You go and implement it. And if someone doesn't like it, even though you've proven that it, you know, it's it's succeeded. Don't.

00:57:06:23 - 00:57:22:06
Donny Walford
And anyway, so that's how I lived after that. Brilliant. Did never ask for permission anyway, but certainly never asked for forgiveness. That's one of the lessons that I would say to males and females, Yeah, do it. If you know it's good, it's going to add value.

00:57:22:10 - 00:57:24:21
Daniel Franco
Yeah. It has to come from the right place though. Yeah.

00:57:24:23 - 00:57:29:11
Donny Walford
Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course. So are you, are you.

00:57:29:13 - 00:57:38:24
Daniel Franco
Is the, is the answer to women getting out there more. Is it simply suck it up. You've got to do it if you want to get noticed and get and move up.

00:57:38:27 - 00:57:47:04
Donny Walford
yeah. don't or don't but don't sit back and complain when no one's touching you for promotion and pay rises and yeah.

00:57:47:10 - 00:57:49:01
Daniel Franco
So the world is your oyster, right?

00:57:49:07 - 00:58:08:24
Donny Walford
Well, that's right. When people talk about glass ceilings, I just think, God, not again. Because I don't believe in them. I think you put your own barriers on. So. So if you're going to wait for someone to come and, you know, present you with something and, you know, I mean, sometimes that happens and that's I always say give it a big take because it's not the way business is.

00:58:08:24 - 00:58:22:24
Donny Walford
Usually it doesn't happen. So you chase the opportunities, create the opportunities, seize the opportunities. And for God's sake, when people offer you a promotion, don't say, I'm not ready for it. Yeah, go for it. You don't say yes.

00:58:22:24 - 00:58:23:07
Daniel Franco
And figure it.

00:58:23:08 - 00:58:35:12
Donny Walford
Out. You don't have to have ten out of ten to be able to do a job. Learn on the job. Yeah, but say yes to every single opportunity. And if you, if they don't come create them. Yeah. That's what I did all my life.

00:58:35:14 - 00:58:53:12
Daniel Franco
I love it. I mean, it just comes back to the same thing. Like I always put sport and business together as a such of a likeness because, you know, my kids in basketball is to use that analogy, to get court time. You got to prove yourself right. You got to put in the hours, you got to go out there and show and be a little bit flamboyant.

00:58:53:12 - 00:58:58:03
Daniel Franco
You got to do have the right behaviors, have the right mindset. It's the same thing.

00:58:58:05 - 00:58:59:11
Donny Walford
Exactly the same.

00:58:59:14 - 00:59:04:23
Daniel Franco
You don't you don't get on the court. And if you're sitting back and waiting for the coach just to pick you.

00:59:04:26 - 00:59:27:23
Donny Walford
If you don't train hard, if you don't work hard, as you say, have the right mindset team, work in the team. It's not about you work with the you. It's there's so many synergies and this is why coaching and mentoring so important. How many, how many of any team is playing sport do you know that don't have a coach or more?

00:59:27:26 - 00:59:46:03
Donny Walford
Zero. Look what I have. I don't know how many teams performance coach, a frontline coach, a midline coach is everywhere. And yet we think we can go through business without a coach or a mentor. Get real. Yeah, you know, but we never had them when I was coming up through the ranks, we didn't and.

00:59:46:03 - 00:59:51:16
Daniel Franco
All had something to that. We think we can go through business not only without a mentor but without a scoreboard yet.

00:59:51:17 - 00:59:52:04
Donny Walford
True.

00:59:52:06 - 00:59:57:08
Daniel Franco
Because you got to know where you're going. You've got to know what your target is. You've got to know if you're actually winning the game or not.

00:59:57:15 - 00:59:58:00
Donny Walford
Yeah.

00:59:58:03 - 01:00:11:04
Daniel Franco
I in in my opinion, I think looking up and seeing the score and going, actually we're on track or we're not. So you can have some goals and visions. Do we want to win the championship or do we just want to finish last? We want to win the championship, We need to do this and then are we on track?

01:00:11:04 - 01:00:14:28
Daniel Franco
There's got to be some sort of scorecard there as well that you hold yourself accountable to.

01:00:15:00 - 01:00:15:21
Donny Walford
Yeah.

01:00:15:23 - 01:00:32:25
Daniel Franco
Yeah, I love. So what about as a father? You talk about men supporting. So I'm a father of 2 to 2 girls, 13 and 11. I don't have the son. I know the son conversation is just as important. But what, what are conversations that men can have as fathers?

01:00:32:28 - 01:00:53:22
Donny Walford
I think I think it's, you know, respect is a big one. But I think the way I was brought up was in you can do anything. It doesn't matter that you're a female, it doesn't matter your male, you can do anything you set your mind to and you support them. You and your wife will support them in whatever choices they make.

01:00:53:29 - 01:01:23:02
Donny Walford
That's that's a big conversation to have at this age, probably. Yeah. Because in in school now they're taught that they can do anything. Yeah. And as soon as they hit the workforce they're told they can't do anything. So I think, I think it's, it's when men say some terrible things about women when they're not in the room about well they might go and have a baby so we won't promote them into partnership or whatever the conversations are.

01:01:23:04 - 01:01:40:15
Donny Walford
And then I would say to them, so do you have daughters? And they go, Yeah, I've got one daughter or a couple of daughters or whatever. And I say, So if you had men sitting around a table saying the same things about your daughters, how would you feel? So so then that sort of, yeah, well, I want my daughters to have everything.

01:01:40:15 - 01:02:06:16
Donny Walford
I want my daughters to have the same opportunities I had. I said, Well, why aren't you giving the same opportunities to females? Right? So, yeah, I just I just think it's mean. Whatever they choose to do, you will support them, but not make sure that they have male mentors as well as female mentors because males will come from a problem or a solution very differently to the way females are.

01:02:06:16 - 01:02:10:17
Donny Walford
So it's really good to have a mix of males and females in their life.

01:02:10:19 - 01:02:24:18
Daniel Franco
Yeah, I yeah, look, as for, for me, the one thing that irritates me more than anything else and I and I come from an Italian background is this female in the kitchen attitude?

01:02:24:18 - 01:02:25:04
Donny Walford
Yeah.

01:02:25:06 - 01:02:42:24
Daniel Franco
And I've had a family circumstance where I've like I've stomp that out. My, my daughters were sitting at a table listening to someone. I won't say who, but listening to someone questioning why they weren't in the kitchen and I stood up there and then and said, If that's the chat that's going on here, then we're not welcome.

01:02:43:00 - 01:02:46:29
Donny Walford
Yep, correct. And that's and that's the thing. Call it when. Yeah.

01:02:47:02 - 01:02:50:00
Daniel Franco
What's the stand and current.

01:02:50:03 - 01:03:08:13
Donny Walford
But particularly for males, if males call it, then other males will listen. If a woman calls a girl, they you know they she goes again, you know putting a woman thing on or call your feminist or whatever rather than going, this is inappropriate. But a male calling it out is so powerful.

01:03:08:15 - 01:03:25:06
Daniel Franco
Well, I just won't stand for it because I remember the looks on their faces going, What do you mean we can't? Because in the Italian tradition, this I hate to say it, but this is just the way it's happened in my whole life is that after dinner the females get up and go into the kitchen and clean up in.

01:03:25:06 - 01:03:26:12
Daniel Franco
The men sit around.

01:03:26:14 - 01:03:27:16
Donny Walford
Having a good time, having.

01:03:27:16 - 01:03:29:28
Daniel Franco
A good time, like it's just been that way.

01:03:30:00 - 01:03:41:08
Donny Walford
The way that a lot of my friends duties if I'm cooking your cleaning. Yeah. And and the vice versa. If they cook something then the same. So so that sharing correct?

01:03:41:09 - 01:03:50:01
Daniel Franco
Well, that's what happens in my household. Like my wife and I cook together and we clean together like this. For us, it's the same. But when you go to the big family functions.

01:03:50:03 - 01:03:50:26
Donny Walford
It changes.

01:03:50:26 - 01:03:56:00
Daniel Franco
And you still got some old school. Like the old school way of living is still evident.

01:03:56:07 - 01:04:17:00
Donny Walford
My husband and I always had a laugh where we would go into someone's home or Barbie or whatever it was, and all the males would be one section, all the females would be, and we would always gravitate the opposite. So I would always go and speak to the males and my husband would always go and speak to the females and they loved him.

01:04:17:03 - 01:04:39:28
Donny Walford
But he preferred their conversation to the the male. Yeah. And it was, it was really we always laughed about it because we just natural gravitated to, to to that and then you know, towards the middle and into the evening everyone, everyone come together. Yeah. But it's, it's funny that that's how it all started. Yeah. And yet I. David it was.

01:04:39:28 - 01:04:41:24
Daniel Franco
A great Australian barbecue and.

01:04:41:27 - 01:04:48:22
Donny Walford
Yeah. But we always gravitated differently and yeah, yeah we always it was fun. Yeah.

01:04:48:25 - 01:05:12:10
Daniel Franco
I love that. So I'm sure I want to go back to behind closed doors before we jump onto the next part. But I think for me it'd be really interesting to hear a story of how behind closed doors and the power of of networking and putting oneself out there, building relationships has really helped some of your people with their careers.

01:05:12:10 - 01:05:21:21
Daniel Franco
I'd love to hear like one story that sticks to your mind just to show the benefit of what this does in getting out there and putting yourself out there.

01:05:21:23 - 01:06:02:23
Donny Walford
Look, because women I know don't like the networking or they won't invest the time by putting them in a room with other women from different industry sectors. Is networking. I realize that, but it's networking. It's pulling them together on a monthly or quarterly basis with the same group of women to get to know each other that this thing that Millicent that that that turned in from a day trip to you know a three day trip what we were talking about earlier for one of our groups and because they they really get on well they you know, there's there's another group that's organizing to go away for a week together or three days together.

01:06:02:23 - 01:06:30:20
Donny Walford
So I've I've got members from 2009 ten who still get together and go away and then they're not together as a group anymore, but they form such amazing friendships and women who get what it's like to be in business. Yeah, So lots of commonality and, and lots of friendships that occur. So they they didn't realize they were networking at the time, but they are.

01:06:30:20 - 01:06:55:25
Donny Walford
And another way we do this, we have our networking sessions during the year, which is only women, so they feel safer and then that helps them build up the confidence to do more networking with with males as well. And then they're they can go into guest speaker sessions with other groups for the first hour, for example. So they get to meet other women in other categories and other groups.

01:06:55:27 - 01:07:25:22
Donny Walford
They don't realize it's networking. It's my way of getting them to network without them realizing that's what I'm doing. And it's later, they say, and particularly entrepreneurs who say the biggest benefit they get out of behind closed doors is the networks they've established. They go, They go, Yeah. So I can't give you one example because there's many, many examples of and these are professional friendships that have turned into real friendships for life that they would never have met.

01:07:25:22 - 01:07:30:08
Donny Walford
These people had and I had something like behind closed doors for them.

01:07:30:10 - 01:07:34:09
Daniel Franco
Which is so good. So the behind closed doors is female only.

01:07:34:16 - 01:07:58:13
Donny Walford
So bottom line is male or mixed gender. Yeah. And so we've got the same like a director's network can. And from February we're starting a an entrepreneurs group for male and female. So when when males started coming to me this year saying why don't you do for us what you do for women? And I said, okay, I will, but do you want an all male group or do you want a male and female?

01:07:58:13 - 01:08:05:14
Donny Walford
And they said, Well, we've got females in our organization. We do with female customers. Why wouldn't we have both? And I go, Yeah, I'm just asking.

01:08:05:16 - 01:08:08:16
Daniel Franco
So yeah, there's nothing appealing about.

01:08:08:19 - 01:08:16:11
Donny Walford
An all male. Not even for me, No, it's interesting. Why would I want and they don't. So it's great. So we're in February we start our male female group.

01:08:16:16 - 01:08:37:09
Daniel Franco
Yeah. I mean, don't get me wrong I've, I've, you know, just by way of this podcast, I have a lot of male mentors in my life, like the role at the old school Rolodex of yes, I've got on my phone and you're you're no different in connections. The ability pick up the phone and and be able to pick someone's brain is I'm very I'm very lucky and honored to be able to have that privilege.

01:08:37:09 - 01:08:42:06
Daniel Franco
But yeah, I don't want to be in a room full of men. I want to be in a room full of diverse thinking. That's what I.

01:08:42:06 - 01:08:43:03
Donny Walford
Want to be, right?

01:08:43:06 - 01:09:14:20
Daniel Franco
Yeah. In a world where we feel like this is starting to move in the right direction, right? Like, you know, where we're at? 25, 30% on boards. We're starting. See that? It's still a long way, right? Equality is still quite far away. Does it does it frustrate you that it's it's as slow as it is? I mean, you've been doing this for 20 years and it still hasn't even go anywhere near that 50% mark yet.

01:09:14:25 - 01:09:36:27
Donny Walford
It's about 25 years ago I was doing a presentation and there are a lot of women in the room. And one of them asked me, Do you think we'll be having this same conversation around equality and equal opportunity and not enough women in executive, not enough women on boards in 20 years time said, God, no, no, no, things will change.

01:09:36:29 - 01:10:20:16
Donny Walford
And here we are 25 years later having the same conversation. It's boring. And that's why behind closed Doors and other organizations like mine are so important to to to try and break through these barriers. But they, you know, I just don't think we'll get equality. So why don't we just go for equal opportunity? Like if if there's a job or a board position, don't just go and tap your mates on the on the shoulder, open it up and, and demand particularly from a recruitment perspective, demand that there are equal number of women on the shortlist as men.

01:10:20:16 - 01:10:50:16
Donny Walford
So when I get men saying there aren't any women or no women applied, I always I try to like go and tap women on the shoulder then because they're not likely to apply because the way you've written your ad, for example, might be very male dominated in its language. So it wouldn't piece appeal to a female. So maybe look at the way you are doing your whole recruitment process.

01:10:50:19 - 01:11:26:19
Donny Walford
And then and then if you're using a recruiter and they say there aren't any females, just say, well, try harder because I'm not paying for it unless I get equal. And then obviously the males, the females then have to win the job in interview. Yeah. So that's, that's where it stopped. But allow the equal opportunity to happen. And I remember I asked this question on a panel and it was when I was on the ABC board and the recruitment process to put a I female to put a new chair of the ABC forward.

01:11:26:25 - 01:11:49:09
Donny Walford
And it came back that there are only three males were put to the Prime Minister. And I was asked this question about what did I think about that. And I said that they're lazy and they should try harder. And anyway, the long story short of that is the Prime Minister did reject the three males and then tapped on a Buttrose on the shoulder and she became the chair.

01:11:49:09 - 01:11:52:16
Donny Walford
But yeah, try harder. So I want to.

01:11:52:18 - 01:12:16:15
Daniel Franco
Go back to the comment at the start of this podcast where you said I grew up in a world where there was no amount of the female, right? Like it was it was equal opportunity, hence being a tomboy and all the above. And so for me my attitude is quite similar. I don't really see the divide in the sense that I couldn't care less whether you're male or female.

01:12:16:15 - 01:12:37:17
Daniel Franco
I just want someone who's actually really excellent at the job and an innovative thinker and someone that can help me realize the vision that I'm trying to set for this business, so to speak, when I'm talking from a corporate perspective. But even in life, it's it's the same. I don't I don't care for gender. I care for the quality of conversation that I'm going to have with you.

01:12:37:19 - 01:13:15:18
Daniel Franco
And and I know that the Gen Z's coming through and all this into the workforce going to stand for the same. Well, they're not going to put up with this. This of inequality. They're going to and they're going to they're going to really speak out about it on all things social media and and I'm really interested in your thoughts around what the future workforce looks like, you know, when you talk about because 25 years ago when you started this, those same men are still potentially in the industry over that 25 years.

01:13:15:18 - 01:13:17:21
Daniel Franco
But in another 25 years they won't be.

01:13:17:21 - 01:13:45:04
Donny Walford
It's probably the earlier question that you asked about your father, you know, with two daughters. What conversation do you have? And I say that, well, if you've got a misogynist father talking to their son and daughters about what women and men should be doing, like once a matriarch and one, you know, one's unsuccessful in business and that's what they grow up believing, then the world is not going to change.

01:13:45:04 - 01:14:18:12
Donny Walford
But you grow up with and this this Gen Z, most most of them have parents who work. They've you know, when I grew up one white one didn't Yeah. Now now they're growing up with their mums and dads if they've been together they have had careers. Yeah. So they've got a very different outlook on life. But if you as I said, if you go to a misogynistic father who's saying this is the role for women and this is a role for men's, and you're going to have the same problem in the workforce, and I know that today.

01:14:18:12 - 01:14:21:16
Donny Walford
And that still happens. Yeah.

01:14:21:18 - 01:14:51:02
Daniel Franco
People are I, I said this on the last podcast actually there's a guy at the basketball club who is who still speaking with that language, young, young guy, 35, 40 years old and he's, his views on women is inappropriate. Right. To the point where a lot of us do not want to speak to him or like I don't understand how anyone can still think that and then not have the sorry and then not have the emotional to realize that shit.

01:14:51:02 - 01:14:53:18
Daniel Franco
No one wants to hear this crap anymore. No one wants to do.

01:14:53:18 - 01:14:58:20
Donny Walford
You did. Did you hear the latest Who became president in the United States?

01:14:58:20 - 01:15:00:14
Daniel Franco
Well, that was going to be one of my questions.

01:15:00:14 - 01:15:18:25
Donny Walford
I can't and don't ask me seriously tells me that, you know, these people are growing up thinking that that's okay if the president in the United States elect can speak like this and treat women like that, then it's okay for me. That's your role model. What hope have we got.

01:15:18:28 - 01:15:21:26
Daniel Franco
We we will sit back with him getting in office, weren't we?

01:15:21:28 - 01:15:30:05
Donny Walford
Well, you're white. The proof in the pudding will be not in the four years of his reign. It will be in the 20 years afterwards.

01:15:30:09 - 01:15:36:25
Daniel Franco
Yet geopolitics. Aside from a gender inequality perspective.

01:15:36:27 - 01:15:57:20
Donny Walford
America doesn't want a female president and looks like Australia does not Look at the way we treated our first female prime minister is disgusting. Whether you agree with her politics or not. And she was in a hung parliament. The only Prime minister that's ever got through the amount of legislation she got through and look what happened to her.

01:15:57:22 - 01:16:13:03
Donny Walford
So, you know, the world we call ourself, you know, a progressive in America, in the UK and and in Australia, for example. And yet third world countries do it better the way they treat their women in in politics. Go figure.

01:16:13:08 - 01:16:17:02
Daniel Franco
Why why don't Australians want.

01:16:17:04 - 01:16:20:23
Donny Walford
Or I don't know you have to ask them. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.

01:16:20:25 - 01:16:59:08
Daniel Franco
It's a deep conversation is Yes. I want to shift gears slightly. You are on like you're a seasoned board veteran. You've been on many, many a board and added value to many, many a company. I'm keen to get your unique perspective on how organizations need to remain relevant with the way in which the future is going. And I guess from your perspective, what are the most significant megatrends do you talk about at board level what's coming our way and how should businesses prepare for them?

01:16:59:15 - 01:17:28:14
Donny Walford
look, I'm going to hit you in the face. It's been around since the fifties. People think it's it's all new now because of changing. But it's been around for, as I said, since the fifties. I think the speed of AI is going to knock people over. There are disruptors out there that are that are they only have one thing in common and that is to make sure that they do away with all people jobs.

01:17:28:16 - 01:17:53:08
Donny Walford
So so the big thing is how do how do you innovate and create efficiencies using AI? And then upskill yourself and upskill your workforce that they can spend more time doing other things and usually getting in front of customers because robots in front of a customer. I mean, having a robot at home, cooking your meal and cleaning up and whatever, that's all fine.

01:17:53:11 - 01:18:16:01
Donny Walford
But do you want to sit opposite a robot as a customer? No. So so I think will become more and more people oriented than ever because we won't be doing the tasks because I will do that, all that boring admin and, and whatever. So but we have to upskill in many countries.

01:18:16:04 - 01:18:16:11
Daniel Franco
As.

01:18:16:17 - 01:18:50:03
Donny Walford
Well. Custom anything customer Right. Getting in front of customers in some way, shape or form. But so so you know this Z generation that only knows devices and speaking on devices and whatever they're going to they're going to find it tough because not that they've lost their social skills, they're always buried in a device rather than talking, you know, I don't know if you go to restaurants, but you sit around and you've got couples who are on their phones and then they showing each other they're fine and coming back and they're not talking.

01:18:50:03 - 01:19:10:03
Donny Walford
It's just bizarre. Yeah. And that's not just young people either. I'm seeing older people do it. So I'm yeah, I'm the speed of AI and what it's going to do to change the way we know. You think like your daughter's will be going into an AI will world. They will not be going into a world that we live in.

01:19:10:06 - 01:19:13:06
Daniel Franco
I'm trying to teach them everything they can learn about.

01:19:13:06 - 01:19:24:00
Donny Walford
AI Yeah. Anything digital. Yeah, but I mean this the speed of the uptake of AI is ten times anything else that's been introduced.

01:19:24:00 - 01:19:32:20
Daniel Franco
What to what are you saying at board level? What are you suggesting or what strategies can companies.

01:19:32:22 - 01:19:51:12
Donny Walford
I think you have to upskill like there's a lot of board directors who is scared of AI on. Yeah, and, and there's no need to be scared we're using AI if they use GPUs or they use their phones, they're using AI cameras, they're using AI, they just don't realize it.

01:19:51:14 - 01:19:58:04
Daniel Franco
What do you do for people who don't like, you know, the old saying can't teach old dog new tricks like these sort of people? How can.

01:19:58:04 - 01:20:01:15
Donny Walford
You? We can know that. That's just a ridiculous saying how you.

01:20:01:21 - 01:20:03:20
Daniel Franco
How you managing these people is it.

01:20:03:20 - 01:20:12:08
Donny Walford
Is you have to you have to get education. You have to talk to people and like there's not a lot of experts in AI there but there's not a lot of know.

01:20:12:08 - 01:20:12:16
Daniel Franco
It's just.

01:20:12:16 - 01:20:36:12
Donny Walford
People. Yeah. So you have to you have to don't, don't go do y micro credentials. You don't have to go and do a degree. Yeah. Just upskill like cybersecurity is the biggest risk in business today. Doesn't matter if you're one person business or, you know, multi-million business, you have to you have to be understanding that cyber and so understand cyber.

01:20:36:15 - 01:21:07:10
Donny Walford
Yeah, understand what it mean. Like you have to understand information, data safety. Yeah, you have to understand all of that because if you don't, you could lose everything and including your reputation. So there's so many this many responsibilities on directors today. It's not funny. And if you're in finance, my God, the regulators are just quite rightly so, tough on on financial, you know, the royal commission, all all of that came.

01:21:07:12 - 01:21:29:01
Donny Walford
And, you know, we were doing a whole lot wrong. So we have to we have to just upskill continuously and don't even worry about trends. I mean, that that should be part of what you do as a director of trends in industry globally. But it's more around those key risks of of cyber and data security and information security.

01:21:29:01 - 01:21:32:14
Donny Walford
Then it doesn't matter what the board is, you have to be on top of.

01:21:32:16 - 01:21:43:03
Daniel Franco
And I think a lot of where you're going within upskill and what up, what you're saying is essentially there is just wave after wave of change coming.

01:21:43:03 - 01:21:53:20
Donny Walford
Yeah. And I think I think change change is inevitable. It is with us every single day. It's the speed of change that going to knock people over.

01:21:53:22 - 01:22:26:19
Daniel Franco
So therefore, the upskilling is absolutely critical. Paramount. The there was a there was a as you know, synergy IQ. The business I run and opera is a change organization. We specialize in helping organizations through change. So we're really interested in this topic. And there was survey done recently and I've coded the survey numerous times, but I'm going to quote it again to you because I think you'd be interested in it, which was it was of 1087 board members who had just fired the CEO.

01:22:26:21 - 01:22:56:19
Daniel Franco
So very specific survey. And the one question they asked board members was ASX listed. Fortune 500 companies are bigger like bigger companies. Why did you fire the CEO? That was the only question they asked. And the number one result at 31% was mismanagement of change. and then number two result at 29% was inaction, which is essentially sticking your head in the ground and hoping it goes away, which means mismanagement of change.

01:22:56:21 - 01:22:58:07
Daniel Franco
So 60%.

01:22:58:09 - 01:22:58:20
Donny Walford
Said.

01:22:58:20 - 01:23:23:05
Daniel Franco
That, said that they fired the CEO of the essentially the mismanagement of change for us. That is that's scary but true. We see it time and time again. There are organizations after organizations embarking on change without being able to help their people make sense of change, and they do not have capability to lead people through change.

01:23:23:05 - 01:23:24:19
Donny Walford
They find someone who can.

01:23:24:21 - 01:23:46:27
Daniel Franco
What will come to us because we can help you. But what what is your thought or as sitting on boards when you're sitting with CEOs and leadership teams, what is your push on and your thought process on upskilling and teaching people how to actually lead through change and building those the right conditions for success.

01:23:46:28 - 01:24:14:08
Donny Walford
And my first mantra is, if you can't change the people, change the people. And the second one is you need a driver up the top. And so once again, I I've lobbied a number of times to change the CEO. If the CEO one exec change. Yeah and it's then it's it's always education if you don't get the buy in from any of your team members, they are not going to accept the change.

01:24:14:08 - 01:24:36:18
Donny Walford
You have to get the buying. And then once you've got the buying and I always to have champions in organizations who will champion at all levels that I don't, don't always choose my champions. Correct. Because a lot of them went all the way through the organization. When they've got that bond and they're driving it, you'll you become then a driver with a lot of other drivers.

01:24:36:18 - 01:24:49:28
Donny Walford
It's much easier on you. But the education critical when you're implementing change, make sure everyone is comfortable and the only way they can get comfortable is by training them and educating them. Yeah.

01:24:50:01 - 01:25:05:17
Daniel Franco
Yeah. We we spend a lot of time in the world of sense making. We believe the only way you can actually get people. You know, you said earlier, people don't like change and we believe the way you can actually get people from this awareness of that they need to change to the desire to change is help them make sense of the change.

01:25:05:20 - 01:25:27:29
Daniel Franco
Right. And leaders need to be equipped with that skill set to be able to help their people make it. And they need to make themselves first and foremost. They need to be able to make sense of the change and secondly, they need to help their people make sense of the change. So there is there's a lot of research that we've put into that and helping businesses.

01:25:27:29 - 01:25:46:24
Daniel Franco
But from my perspective, I'm really interested in your thoughts around why, you know, you have lobbied for CEOs to who to to remove CEOs who aren't interested in that, how to CEOs even get into a role these days if they're not thinking about change? That's that's the part that confuses me.

01:25:46:27 - 01:26:11:06
Donny Walford
Because they've got another skill sets that you you know, they might say all the right things in interviews, but it's demonstration, isn't it? But, you know, they've got other skills and and backgrounds that would be interesting to a board and it's it's only when they're in the job that you can see whether they you know, their experience and how will they perform.

01:26:11:06 - 01:26:39:14
Donny Walford
Did interview actually come to fruition. Yeah hence why probation is always good these days because you can have a if if they're not performing six months, they're not going to get better after that. You have your first six months of where everyone shows how good they are. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, it's just, you know, in yesteryear, I don't know if CEOs needed to have the same sort of broad, general skill sets that they do need to have today.

01:26:39:14 - 01:26:53:00
Donny Walford
I mean there's so much on business leaders today than they used to be. A lot more responsibilities as well. So I think you just need those really good all around a general general management type skill sets as your CEO is.

01:26:53:05 - 01:27:15:15
Daniel Franco
I agree. I'm I'm conscious of your time. So we're going to just going to a couple of reflection questions before we get into some quickfire questions. If you had to have a candid conversation with your younger self about navigating success and failure, what's one thing that you would expect yourself to say?

01:27:15:20 - 01:27:46:09
Donny Walford
So I don't believe in failure. I think the only way that anyone files is when they give up. So, you know, I just focus on success, right? And so you just keep keep moving, never give up and always keep trying and don't but don't do it the same way to get the same result. Like try different things, engage mentors and coaches, grab a sponsor are internally and externally and and never let anyone take away your confidence.

01:27:46:11 - 01:27:48:06
Donny Walford


01:27:48:09 - 01:27:49:29
Daniel Franco
I have no right to know.

01:27:49:29 - 01:28:04:02
Donny Walford
I but a lot of a lot of people that's what happens they they beat they beat people down so much that in the end they lose their confidence. And usually health suffers. And I just think that's the worst thing you can allow someone to do for your footy fan.

01:28:04:05 - 01:28:18:16
Daniel Franco
You might not like this guy, but. Nathan Buckley Yeah, said I remember I read it and I think was his book or editing, which was the two hardest things in life is the first thing is to start, and the second thing is to not give up.

01:28:18:18 - 01:28:18:27
Donny Walford
You know?

01:28:18:28 - 01:28:27:22
Daniel Franco
Okay, all right. I was there. I thought it was just so profound that, like, it's actually it is actually the journey that we should enjoy.

01:28:27:25 - 01:28:28:18
Donny Walford
Sure.

01:28:28:20 - 01:28:35:23
Daniel Franco
Right. Yeah. if you had to encapsulate your journey in one single lesson or message, what would that be?

01:28:35:25 - 01:28:37:15
Donny Walford
One single is your.

01:28:37:15 - 01:28:39:10
Daniel Franco
Journey, your career today.

01:28:39:12 - 01:28:44:07
Donny Walford
And just back your self. Yeah. Back yourself. That would probably be right.

01:28:44:10 - 01:28:53:06
Daniel Franco
I love that. Quickfire questions. What's book or books that you've given as a gift or you've read or recommended the most?

01:28:53:08 - 01:29:18:11
Donny Walford
What's one? It's 100 world's greatest speeches is. yes, very good. And why I like it is because public speaking is a great skill all leaders need to have. And and you can learn public speaking and you can get very good at public speaking. And public speaking really is all about telling stories, just like your podcast, which is great.

01:29:18:13 - 01:29:21:24
Daniel Franco
So the thing is, I can do this podcast. No problems getting up on stage. I'll shoot myself.

01:29:22:00 - 01:29:23:06
Donny Walford
It's the same thing. Yeah.

01:29:23:06 - 01:29:27:26
Daniel Franco
No, it's really, really strange. Is that on audiobook or is that like is that the.

01:29:28:00 - 01:29:29:09
Donny Walford
I think there's audio.

01:29:29:12 - 01:29:31:20
Daniel Franco
Of all the actual speeches that have been captured.

01:29:31:20 - 01:29:37:07
Donny Walford
It's the 100 best speeches in the world. Brilliant. Yeah.

01:29:37:09 - 01:29:40:15
Daniel Franco
I love it. What's one lesson that's taking the longest to learn.

01:29:40:20 - 01:29:45:12
Donny Walford
To make time to reflect, rest and reset?

01:29:45:14 - 01:29:50:17
Daniel Franco
I hear we're we're filming this. When we were doing it in November. I'm crawling to that finish.

01:29:50:22 - 01:30:04:15
Donny Walford
You can do a little mini reflections. Yeah, and resting and resetting. But just run all day long. And and when you when you learn to reflect, reset, it's amazing the difference it can make.

01:30:04:17 - 01:30:05:17
Daniel Franco
So you've learned that now.

01:30:05:21 - 01:30:08:18
Donny Walford
I've learned and now but it took a while. Yeah.

01:30:08:21 - 01:30:10:20
Daniel Franco
Do you stop and think?

01:30:10:23 - 01:30:33:03
Donny Walford
Well, my husband used to say so when do you ever think when thinking time. You just go, go, go, go, go. I like a battery and I go laughingly in the toilet, in the shower. And then I found out a few years ago that the the five places where people do most of their thinking is in the toilet, in the shower.

01:30:33:09 - 01:31:09:09
Donny Walford
And when you get some like alone time when you're traveling, whether it's on a train or in a car or when you're traveling, when you're resting, not asleep, but when you're resting and when you're on holiday. And I thought, yeah that that that's when I do it. But now I do these mini ones, like in between meetings, there's a great book called The Third Space that that's another great will come and it's and that teaches you and in a really humorous way of of this wrist reflection resting Yeah great yeah it's great balance of that.

01:31:09:09 - 01:31:12:28
Daniel Franco
I need to get on to that. But some of the best advice you've ever received.

01:31:13:00 - 01:31:36:08
Donny Walford
I've got a few. Okay. So sweat the small stuff. Yeah. It's not personal. I might, I might say that to every single person I coach. Hundreds of people do what you love and love what you do. Don't wear your heart on your sleeve. Learn to have a poker face. Ask good questions, which were talked about today and be kind.

01:31:36:15 - 01:31:37:29
Donny Walford
Yeah. Yeah.

01:31:38:02 - 01:31:45:25
Daniel Franco
My billboard would say humankind be both. And you know, I've got that's one of my questions that I'm asking you to say. Woops, I'm just jump to.

01:31:45:25 - 01:31:46:18
Donny Walford
That a bit.

01:31:46:21 - 01:31:52:18
Daniel Franco
But it's not personal. Can I just can I just touch on that for a sec? How do you not take it things personally?

01:31:52:20 - 01:32:14:09
Donny Walford
And as soon you take things personally, it becomes your problem. So whoever is yelling at you or giving you a hard time has a problem, don't make it yours. So it might be that they. They've got some other stuff going on in their personal life, or they've just been berated by a customer or a boss higher than them or it is.

01:32:14:12 - 01:32:31:00
Donny Walford
But as soon as you take it personally, because the way they're behaving towards you, then it's your problem. So I always go, it's not my problem. And when when I do that, when I say that even to my team, I'm going to listen to my problem. And they think it's really tough and really hard and I think it's not my problem.

01:32:31:02 - 01:32:42:18
Donny Walford
So your problem, you deal with it if you want some guidance and some help and whatever, I'll give it. But I'm not taking on as my problem and is.

01:32:42:18 - 01:32:45:10
Daniel Franco
That does that is that reflective in its own right?

01:32:45:12 - 01:33:06:08
Donny Walford
Well, not not not like as as I said this, there are people who just want to make your life a misery and they will hammer you and hammer and pick on the smallest of the smallest things. They've got a problem. Yeah. Don't make it yours. Yeah. So I don't. I don't ever take things personally, but I always if someone's yelling at me or in the past, I don't get it now.

01:33:06:08 - 01:33:26:26
Donny Walford
But in the past I'll just say I'll come back when you're calmer and they go, What? I am not. But clearly something's wrong. What's happening here? Yeah, but I. I will speak with you. But no yelling at me. I will come back when you come and stuff. It's amazing how it deflates. Yeah. Or if they can't come down, then they know I'll just come back later.

01:33:26:26 - 01:33:27:08
Donny Walford
Yeah.

01:33:27:11 - 01:33:29:05
Daniel Franco
So this is supposed to be quickfire, but.

01:33:29:07 - 01:33:29:27
Donny Walford
Okay.

01:33:30:00 - 01:33:39:13
Daniel Franco
Now this is my fault. I'm the one asking for a lot of questions. How's failure? Know you don't believe in failure. But how is failure a parent failure set you up for success in life.

01:33:39:16 - 01:34:07:20
Donny Walford
I went. I started my business behind closed doors. I had gone national, but I had only been national for a couple of years. So I hadn't built up a real brand or a real customer base interstate. But I had here and I wanted to run this a like a female summit over two days. And I the break even point was 200 people and I only got 50 registrations.

01:34:07:23 - 01:34:28:26
Donny Walford
The long story short of that was I lost $70,000 and it was just the most horrendously stressful time. But it made me realize that you've got to you've got to walk before, you can run. And so everything I did after that, I made sure I made sure that I didn't go out too early, that it was a tough place.

01:34:28:26 - 01:34:36:12
Donny Walford
And 70,000 hertz. And that really hurt. That's my pocket, you know that. Yeah, But anyway, that's you.

01:34:36:14 - 01:34:42:26
Daniel Franco
One step at a time. What's one skill or talent wish you had be doing?

01:34:42:28 - 01:34:59:29
Donny Walford
That would be computer science. Yeah. I'd love to be an expert in anything digital. And I. Yeah, had to write code and. Yeah. well, JPT and other I don't write code for you, so you don't need to learn code but like to understand all that.

01:35:00:01 - 01:35:14:05
Daniel Franco
And I want to create a game like that's my thing. All right. And I on that. Yeah, yeah. Like, how cool would it be? Never check to be taking code. It's like, why don't I just create a game, an app or something?

01:35:14:07 - 01:35:15:00
Donny Walford
Yeah.

01:35:15:02 - 01:35:19:21
Daniel Franco
I'm going through that. If you could swap lives with anyone for a day, who would it be?

01:35:19:24 - 01:35:43:26
Donny Walford
It would be the Prime Minister. ALBANESE Well, I'm not going to name names but a primary prime Minister and I'd bring in legislation for women to even up the pay gap and therefore improve their superannuation and and that that would change that they weren't limited to how much they could put into their super because when they come back into the workforce, they're so far behind.

01:35:43:26 - 01:36:02:13
Donny Walford
It's funny if they've had a family and the the current limit is 27,500 a year, forgive me, like if women didn't have a limit and they could just sock money into their super, why wouldn't you? It doesn't cost the government a cent. Yeah. Anyway, that's what I do in that day when.

01:36:02:13 - 01:36:10:17
Daniel Franco
Legislation changes in a day. If you had a billboard, then you could anything, anywhere with anything written on it, what would it say?

01:36:10:17 - 01:36:30:03
Donny Walford
Why don't ask, don't get? Yes, I say that to so many people. If you don't ask for the pay rise, you won't get it. If you don't ask for the promotion, you won't get it. Don't ask for position, you won't get it. And then and even in business, when people have a fee structure and I say, put your fees up and they go, Well I can't you, you can, you choose not to.

01:36:30:06 - 01:36:33:15
Donny Walford
So you don't ask, you know, you don't get a lot.

01:36:33:15 - 01:36:36:10
Daniel Franco
But if you were to start a podcast, you've really got one. I can't really ask you.

01:36:36:15 - 01:36:37:08
Donny Walford
That's just give.

01:36:37:08 - 01:36:38:11
Daniel Franco
Your podcast a plug.

01:36:38:17 - 01:36:40:27
Donny Walford
It's called Women on the Move.

01:36:40:27 - 01:36:47:15
Daniel Franco
Women on the Move. Women on the Move. Brilliant. And it can be found on all podcast. Are all Spotify and Apple.

01:36:47:15 - 01:36:48:21
Donny Walford
And every way absolutely.

01:36:48:21 - 01:36:52:04
Daniel Franco
Brilliant. If you could be famous for one thing, what would it be?

01:36:52:06 - 01:37:13:18
Donny Walford
Empowering women to achieve greater things with the the in their life and and in their career with the help of other women? There's a famous quote by Madeleine Albright that said when she said there's a special place in hell for women who don't support other women. Yes, sure. Yeah.

01:37:13:23 - 01:37:17:18
Daniel Franco
If you could travel to any event in history, what would it be?

01:37:17:21 - 01:37:25:00
Donny Walford
the Roaring Twenties. yeah. Because of the music and the dance session. Yeah. Hippie on. Yeah.

01:37:25:02 - 01:37:27:29
Daniel Franco
What's the first thing you would do if you became invisible.

01:37:28:01 - 01:37:33:01
Donny Walford
Sitting on parliamentary cabinet meetings? Really? Yeah.

01:37:33:03 - 01:37:38:08
Daniel Franco
Yeah. You love your politics? Yeah If you can have one superhero power, what want to be.

01:37:38:11 - 01:37:44:05
Donny Walford
That would be the capability to defy gravity and soar through the air.

01:37:44:06 - 01:37:45:15
Daniel Franco
Yeah To fly.

01:37:45:20 - 01:37:46:11
Donny Walford
Yeah.

01:37:46:14 - 01:37:48:28
Daniel Franco
Yeah, It'd be nice. Yeah. I'm scared of heights there, so.

01:37:49:00 - 01:37:53:16
Donny Walford
I don't really know. Well, you don't have. You can. You can. Well, if you flew too low gravity.

01:37:53:19 - 01:37:58:06
Daniel Franco
Well no. Well I figured if you could fly, you no longer scared of heights, right?

01:37:58:11 - 01:37:59:10
Donny Walford
Yeah, I guess.

01:37:59:11 - 01:38:13:26
Daniel Franco
Cause, like, the fear is probably more falling and dying. But anyway. All right, so my favorite joke of the whole But my my favorite my favorite question of the whole podcast is, what's your best dad? Mom?

01:38:14:01 - 01:38:20:15
Donny Walford
Shit, joke. So, Dad, can you explain the eclipse? And dad says, No, son, I love it.

01:38:20:18 - 01:38:24:07
Daniel Franco
I haven't heard that one before. It's been very good. Thank you very much.

01:38:24:09 - 01:38:25:16
Donny Walford
So it was good fun.

01:38:25:16 - 01:38:45:04
Daniel Franco
It's been it's been amazing. And I just wanna say thank you for all that you're doing and all that you've done. you're, you obviously having a massive influence on, so many people, so many women and people in general in this world. And I, Michelle, my business partner, is part of behind closed doors and absolutely loving what you guys are offering there.

01:38:45:09 - 01:38:57:00
Daniel Franco
Yeah, I just think I'm really keen to continue watching your journey. And now that you're in my little, my little network, I'm never going to let go. You're in my Rolodex now. So now I.

01:38:57:00 - 01:39:00:09
Donny Walford
Appreciate all of things. It's you remember those of you.

01:39:00:11 - 01:39:09:17
Daniel Franco
You know what? I Rolodexes. There's a lot of people that probably don't. Someone said it to me that the other day. They go, Your Rolodex. I'm going to use that. Yeah, It's those old one of those things.

01:39:09:17 - 01:39:09:25
Donny Walford
Yeah.

01:39:09:25 - 01:39:11:11
Daniel Franco
No, I kind of.

01:39:11:13 - 01:39:12:16
Donny Walford
No one sells.

01:39:12:16 - 01:39:14:25
Daniel Franco
I mean, my grandma used to have one next to her father.

01:39:14:25 - 01:39:21:22
Donny Walford
I used to have one. Yeah. Like up even in the bank and. Sorry, even in government. I had a Rolodex.

01:39:21:28 - 01:39:26:12
Daniel Franco
She had my grandma had one on the, on the side of it and we used to put like random wasted. Right.

01:39:26:12 - 01:39:28:08
Donny Walford
Random numbers and really.

01:39:28:08 - 01:39:29:01
Daniel Franco
She'd like you.

01:39:29:01 - 01:39:31:20
Donny Walford
See. Yeah that's, that's nasty.

01:39:31:21 - 01:39:41:25
Daniel Franco
I couldn't figure out who was a. Anyway thanks again. It's been an amazing conversation. Where can we get in contact with you? Should we need it. You know where can people get in contact with.

01:39:41:28 - 01:39:50:26
Donny Walford
and either either through on our website, it's got all our phone numbers, mobiles and behind closed doors dot com.

01:39:50:29 - 01:39:54:01
Daniel Franco
Perfect for them. They're doing amazing things. Thank you again.

01:39:54:08 - 01:39:55:27
Donny Walford
Thank you. Thank you, everyone. Thanks.

01:39:55:27 - 01:40:11:21
Daniel Franco
Thanks for listening to the podcast. So you can check out the show notes if there was anything of interest to you and find out more about us at Synergy IQ dot com. So to you, I am going to ask though if you did like the podcast, it would absolutely mean the world to me if you could subscribe. Right.

01:40:11:21 - 01:40:18:24
Daniel Franco
And review and if you didn't like it, that's alright too. There's no need to do anything. Thank you guys. All the best.