#120 Dr. Gemma Munro, Award-winning speaker on the Courage to Embrace Change and Finding your True Purpose

We are thrilled to welcome back the extraordinary Dr. Gemma Munro for an episode that promises to be a turning point in your journey towards self-discovery and transformation. 

Known as the Alchemist at Work, Gemma, an award-winning speaker and facilitator, has the unique ability to ignite courage and spark rapid, easeful change. In this episode, we dive deep into the essence of transformation, the power of courage, and how to turn the seemingly impossible into reality. 

With a PhD in performance psychology, Gemma has touched over 72,000 lives worldwide, proving that change is not only possible but within reach. Tune in now!

Here's why you ABSOLUTELY can't miss this episode:

🎙️ Courage to Change: Gemma dives deep into the psychology behind our fear of stepping out of our comfort zones and how to embrace calculated risks.

🎙️ Finding your Purpose: Unravel the importance of discovering your purpose and common mistakes to avoid.

🎙️ Power of Intuition: Discover practical tips to tap into your intuition and how it can guide your life decisions.

🎙️ Transformative Strategies: Get firsthand tips from Gemma's "What Comes Next?" program, proven to guide participants towards clarity, purpose, and action.

Be ready to be inspired, hopeful, and ready to take on your next challenge.
 

Where to find Gemma Munro

• LinkedIn
• Website

Join the conversation on Synergy IQ on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram (@synergyiq).

Access SynergyIQ Website to get to know more about us. 

Say hello to our host Daniel Franco on LinkedIn.

Transcript

00:00:09:28 - 00:00:42:12
Daniel Franco
So welcome back to the Creating Synergy Podcast today. We welcome to the world of the podcast and I'm going to start it again. I completely thought that I read the word world there and I'm like, I'm gonna screw this up. All right. Welcome back to the Creating Synergy Podcast. Today we have the amazing Dr. Gemma Munro back on the show, returning to the show and Gemma is known for her world of transformation.

00:00:42:12 - 00:00:55:14
Daniel Franco
I hang on to this. I'm not good at this with interest though, so yeah, good. When I do these intros we do about 21 takes, right? You don't do it afterwards. I'm going to do it again. Now. Last time I I'm going to actually read it.

00:00:55:14 - 00:00:56:14
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I'm lucky.

00:00:56:17 - 00:01:01:06
Daniel Franco
The what what I've actually written instead of me making it up as I go along. All right.

00:01:01:08 - 00:01:03:27
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I won't look at you. You just like, okay.

00:01:03:29 - 00:01:24:08
Daniel Franco
So welcome back to the Creating Synergy podcast with today we're diving into the world of transformation and courage with the amazing Dr. Gemma Munro. Welcome to the show. Thank you. So just a little bit about Gemma. Gemma is an award winning speaker and holds a Ph.D. in performance psychology and has a unique gift of sparking rapid and easeful change.

00:01:24:08 - 00:01:55:08
Daniel Franco
She's dubbed the alchemist of work at Work, and she's an expert in fostering courage, transforming lives, and turning the impossible dreams into reality. She has reached over 72,000 people globally in her work, including presentations at Google, Amazon, Qantas, and she's sparked insights that have sparked remarkable change in workplaces around the world. Not only that, she has also graced the stage at Westminster Valley alongside the Rolling Stone.

00:01:55:09 - 00:01:57:00
Daniel Franco
So welcome to the show, Gemma.

00:01:57:00 - 00:01:59:24
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Thank you, Daniel. Thank you. It's nice to be back. Second time.

00:01:59:27 - 00:02:04:29
Daniel Franco
Second time actually, I should say this, that's probably a number one accolade, second time with a show.

00:02:05:05 - 00:02:06:02
Dr.  Gemma Munro
That should be top of my.

00:02:06:05 - 00:02:08:05
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Mind.

00:02:08:07 - 00:02:28:06
Daniel Franco
I'm beginning to train into a mentor vibe. Beautiful. Look, this was actually a little bit of an impromptu reach out and say, Hey, let's connect and get on the show. So I'm going to say this I’ve done minimal prep on this, which is the first time. And I'm actually really excited about just having a conversation and seeing where we're at.

00:02:28:06 - 00:02:34:29
Daniel Franco
And I know that you're doing some amazing new work and helping people find their purpose, and I thought that would be an amazing conversation to have today.

00:02:35:02 - 00:02:45:00
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Wonderful. Thank you. And if I may say, I'm non condescendingly proud of you because I know in the past you've been an over preparer. So the fact that you're just sitting here going, Yup, I've done no prep.

00:02:45:05 - 00:02:46:28
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I think that's great.

00:02:47:01 - 00:02:55:20
Daniel Franco
Yeah. First time for everything. I think it would bring a lot of hours back in my life if I could do this. So I'm going to trial it today and see what we do.

00:02:55:20 - 00:02:56:20
Dr.  Gemma Munro
But it's time of many.

00:02:56:20 - 00:03:16:27
Daniel Franco
See how we go. So what's been happening? Where have you been? What last time you're on would have been would have been two or three years ago now? I think two years. We had amazing conversation. It was one of the most down. I think it still is one of the most downloaded podcasts that we've had. It's done remarkably well.

00:03:17:00 - 00:03:20:00
Daniel Franco
We talked. What do we talk about last time? All things.

00:03:20:03 - 00:03:23:26
Dr.  Gemma Munro
We actually went really deep and we tackled some of your self-doubts.

00:03:23:29 - 00:03:27:27
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And you had your live. You were really brave.

00:03:27:29 - 00:03:32:06
Dr.  Gemma Munro
We talked, I think, mostly about courage and change and the courage to change.

00:03:32:06 - 00:03:36:22
Daniel Franco
That's right. And now you're working on all things purpose.

00:03:36:25 - 00:03:45:17
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yes. What's one of the things I'm working on? So I'm on the speaker circuit and still speaking about courage and change and transformation.

00:03:45:19 - 00:03:48:08
Daniel Franco
And you've been traveling all week having you.

00:03:48:10 - 00:03:49:03
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Can you see my eye bags

00:03:50:12 - 00:03:50:26
Daniel Franco
this morning?

00:03:51:00 - 00:03:51:16
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yeah, it was.

00:03:51:20 - 00:03:55:12
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Adelaide, Gold Coast, Sydney, Perth, Adelaide this.

00:03:55:12 - 00:03:56:13
Daniel Franco
Week. Yeah, well, it's.

00:03:56:13 - 00:03:57:10
Dr.  Gemma Munro
A bit of a.

00:03:57:12 - 00:04:33:03
Dr.  Gemma Munro
A long schedule but I, I had this urge last year. I realized that in my executive coaching work and in some of my speaking work too, I've helped people have big AHA moments about who they are, but not just who they are, what they're here to do and who they're here to be. And over the years I've, I've developed a range of tools that actually work and I get, I have to say a bit of a rant, but I get really sick of, you know, the I know it was well-intentioned, but the what color is my parachute?

00:04:33:03 - 00:05:02:20
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Those kinds of career books, they're terrible advice. They actually don't work. They're fully based on the rational left brain side, left hemisphere side of the brain, and they get people traveling a well-trodden path as opposed to the path that's meant for them. Yeah. So I just had this calling to to put together a program that that really helps people get to the heart of their purpose and kind of who they want to be when they grow up, no matter if they're 27 or 57 or 77.

00:05:02:22 - 00:05:05:17
Daniel Franco
What does purpose mean to you?

00:05:05:20 - 00:05:28:00
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Okay. I do think that in each of us we are born with this spark inside of us. It's this light that is made up of our unique energy signature, our unique strengths or gifts, and our unique purpose, i.e., what we are here to do in this life.

00:05:28:06 - 00:05:35:18
Daniel Franco
So you think that's pretty much, I mean, calculated before anything, You've taken your first breath.

00:05:35:18 - 00:05:55:25
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I think it comes with our soul. I think we have a plan each lifetime. And then what happens is we we hop into this world and well-intentioned parents and teachers and society kind of say, no, sweetie, you can't do that, and you can't be that. And here's how to be a person. Yeah, here's what you're meant to do.

00:05:55:27 - 00:06:29:07
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And also, who are you to think that that is even possible And we get wired away from this unique light. And the the analogy I've always had in mind is that each of us is like this beautiful lamp, different shape, different lampshade, different color, different size. And all these messages from teachers, parents, society, throw a blanket over that light and our job then is to work out what the blankets are, get those out of the way so we can rediscover that light.

00:06:29:07 - 00:06:33:19
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And part of that light is our purpose, i.e. what we're here to do.

00:06:33:21 - 00:06:54:01
Daniel Franco
As you talking there. And it reminds me of a quote that I or I don't know where I heard this from, but it was like in right now there's the cure for cancer in the mind of a child who can't afford an education. Right. And so environment would also be a critical part in that moment where they're brought up and, to realize their potential because of the environment.

00:06:54:03 - 00:07:23:05
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I couldn't agree more. And I'm really aware that when I talk about, you know, finding your passion and purpose, it can be like, well, you know, good for some. But what I would say is that those of us who have the opportunity to do that, we are almost compelled to do it. Because the other thing I think about purpose is that it contains whatever your unique purpose is, once you uncover it and start to make it a reality, it will inevitably make the world a better place.

00:07:23:05 - 00:07:27:19
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And the world needs to become a better place right now in all ways.

00:07:27:21 - 00:07:52:15
Daniel Franco
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think so. My version. I ask the question, what's your definition of. I honestly think the purpose to me is the intention to contribute to the well-being of society. Like I think we are intrinsically motivated to do and help others. I mean, that is it's a survival technique. That's Maslow's hierarchy, right? We build a community and we connect and that helps us survive, right?

00:07:52:15 - 00:08:01:22
Daniel Franco
So so naturally we've evolved into this world of saying, well, let's find purpose that actually gives back and can help contribute to society.

00:08:01:24 - 00:08:22:26
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I, I agree with you. And I would add that I think there are a couple of more ingredients in that if I was really wanting to help society and if people really want to help society, there will be lots of things they could do that would make a massive impact which are in no way what they're designed to do.

00:08:22:28 - 00:08:39:22
Dr.  Gemma Munro
They're not going to play to their strengths. They're not going to to give them that lit up energy that actually makes them world class at what they do. So I think it is about making the world a better place, but I think we are wired to do that by tapping into whatever it is that makes us better people.

00:08:39:22 - 00:08:47:24
Daniel Franco
Yeah, no doubt. Absolutely. So how do we how do we understand what was pre-designed?

00:08:47:27 - 00:09:17:15
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yeah, there are that. It's a big question and I think there are a few things that really help on a practical level. I do really suggest that people hone in on what they're naturally good at, at what other people thank them for, and the things that they do that when they're doing them all time passes. So those three things together make up our natural strengths.

00:09:17:17 - 00:09:45:02
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I think tapping into what it is that drives us, I think understanding what problems we want to solve in the world. There are lots of puzzle pieces that when put together, help us understand what we're here to do and who we're here to be. Another thing I really recommend is Human Design or Jane case. I think that is a system that I've I, I don't do one on one debriefs as much anymore.

00:09:45:04 - 00:09:58:04
Dr.  Gemma Munro
But I found that incredibly useful to help people understand who they were meant to be before society got their hands on them. But I do think the number one thing that.

00:09:58:06 - 00:10:00:13
Daniel Franco
We.

00:10:00:16 - 00:10:24:27
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Society at the moment, we are rewarded for being busy. We are rewarded for being rational minded all the time. And we don't make enough space for the small still voice to give us little hints of intuition, of instinct, to say, What if you try this? Because I do think our purpose speaks to us in the language of joy and curiosity.

00:10:24:29 - 00:10:47:08
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And the problem is we are so busy doing the doing that we don't take that step up off the dance floor onto the balcony to actually ask ourselves, what do I want to do and what is interesting me and what would actually make me feel energized and inspired. We just keep on the hamster wheel because we think that's what we're meant to do.

00:10:47:11 - 00:11:03:16
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And stopping that hamster wheel is actually really scary because what if one of the thoughts is, I'm not meant to be doing what I'm doing and we're wired to avoid change so we avoid the peace that would give us the intuition that we're meant to be changing.

00:11:03:16 - 00:11:25:15
Daniel Franco
But are we? Are we what you said wired for joy and curiosity? Then why wouldn't we chase that? I mean, look, if you think about what brings us joy, I mean, food brings us immense joy. Sex brings us immense joy, those sort of things we chase and want the best of. So why wouldn't we do this with.

00:11:25:18 - 00:11:26:18
Dr.  Gemma Munro
With our purpose.

00:11:26:18 - 00:11:27:25
Daniel Franco
Without purpose in our life?

00:11:27:25 - 00:11:48:28
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yeah, I or I want to go down three different rabbit holes with this one. Hang on. Just got a cough. I think we are wired or our purpose communicates through joy and curiosity. But joy and curiosity are found in the right hemisphere of the brain. And most of us haven't been taught how to access that hemisphere of the brain.

00:11:49:00 - 00:11:50:15
Daniel Franco
So you don't know what you don't know.

00:11:50:18 - 00:12:08:03
Dr.  Gemma Munro
That's exactly right. What we have been taught is to stick in the left hemisphere of the brain that says stay small, stay hidden. It says Control everything. So I have a 12 point plan, I have a five year plan, don't upset others. And it also says, so this is where food and sex.

00:12:08:09 - 00:12:10:04
Daniel Franco
Which is essentially saying stay safe.

00:12:10:10 - 00:12:41:24
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Stay safe. Exactly. Don't rock the boat. And your purpose, you're not meant to stay safe in a harbor. You meant to sail out. But you're when you talked about food and sex, they can give joy, but often they're used. And I'm thinking about social media scrolling and shopping and all that. They're used for pleasure, which actually is about numbing our fears, numbing that intuition that will say, Honey, you're meant for something different.

00:12:41:27 - 00:12:50:07
Dr.  Gemma Munro
You're meant for something bigger or softer or bolder or braver. So I'm not saying food and sex don't provide joy. It just depends on what the motivation.

00:12:50:08 - 00:12:51:22
Daniel Franco
Probably pleasures A better word.

00:12:51:22 - 00:13:01:13
Dr.  Gemma Munro
For. Yes. And and I think it's about, am I doing this to numb from the life I'm meant to be living, or is this contributing to the life I meant to be living?

00:13:01:18 - 00:13:06:18
Daniel Franco
Yeah. I mean, there's rabbit holes everywhere here.

00:13:06:19 - 00:13:07:26
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Indeed.

00:13:07:28 - 00:13:19:20
Daniel Franco
Where's the best place that I can start to on tap what my purpose is like. How do I and how do I listen to my intuition, so to speak?

00:13:19:22 - 00:13:35:03
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yeah. I advocate doing three things every day if you can, every week if you can't. So one is I talked about it before balcony time, which I'm sure you do, and.

00:13:35:05 - 00:13:36:08
Daniel Franco
Explain me back any.

00:13:36:08 - 00:13:41:11
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Time, balcony time. So this is a concept that Ronald Heifetz, Harvard psychiatrist.

00:13:41:11 - 00:13:42:11
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I believe don't quote.

00:13:42:11 - 00:14:00:27
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Me on that came up with. He said the most effective leaders take time to step up off the dance floor. And the dance floor is the doing is the responding to phone calls and emails and deadlines to take step up off the dance floor onto the balcony. Because on the balcony you can say, what's going on on the dance floor?

00:14:00:27 - 00:14:09:26
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Am I enjoying myself? What am I curious about? Am I playing to my strengths? So to do that at least once a week for an hour, But I do it every day at the start of the day. The second.

00:14:09:26 - 00:14:11:01
Daniel Franco
Sorry, can we just tap into that?

00:14:11:01 - 00:14:11:26
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Of course we can.

00:14:11:27 - 00:14:34:07
Daniel Franco
So we're a number one of three, right? Remember that keeping the head inevitably going to go back to those two. Okay. So looking that's just like looking down on the balcony. He's like the bird's eye view almost, isn't it, seeing the lay of the land. I don't do that. well, I don't know if I do. I think I know why.

00:14:34:07 - 00:14:48:21
Daniel Franco
I think I do in my run. I mean, like if I run or X or something like that, as opposed to dedicated time where I should do that. And I know that I should do that more. There's a TV show called Yellowstone. I'm not sure if you've seen it.

00:14:48:24 - 00:14:51:17
Dr.  Gemma Munro
It's gritty, so I don't like gritty television.

00:14:51:20 - 00:15:15:06
Daniel Franco
Or whatever it might be. It is the Kevin Costner's character. He spends half the day thinking and and I like and I just about his business, about life. And I just think I wish I wish I wasn't so busy. I wish I could step away and step off that dance floor to do that, because I actually think I would be much better.

00:15:15:09 - 00:15:20:22
Daniel Franco
So I'm wondering. Yeah, I don't know. I wonder if I'd do it, but in other ways. But it's not dedicated.

00:15:20:24 - 00:15:43:28
Dr.  Gemma Munro
If I may set you a piece of thoroughly not mandated home plate. Yeah, it's once a week at least to find an hour. That's non-negotiable time that's in your calendar that says do not book over where you say, All right, what? What's my vision? Because I think you're pretty clear on your vision. And what can I do this week to move towards it?

00:15:44:01 - 00:15:49:17
Dr.  Gemma Munro
What am I doing at the moment that's actually getting in the way of it? What can I. Can I swear?

00:15:49:20 - 00:15:50:13
Daniel Franco
Yeah, absolutely.

00:15:50:15 - 00:16:10:24
Dr.  Gemma Munro
What can I chuck in the bucket? Bucket. Yeah. Because so many of us are doing the things that we think we should be doing when actually they're not contributing in any way. We're just stuck in a rut of doing them over and over. And what is it this week that's actually going to energize me? What's going to make me feel like I'm being who I am?

00:16:10:24 - 00:16:21:10
Dr.  Gemma Munro
How can I play to my strengths this week? How can I move more towards my values? These questions once a week kind of set you up and keep you aligned with who you are and who you want to.

00:16:21:11 - 00:16:29:05
Daniel Franco
Yeah, I guess a naturally do them, but don't dedicate time to recalibrating it. I think maybe that's where.

00:16:29:07 - 00:16:30:15
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And if it's working for you, that's.

00:16:30:15 - 00:16:42:07
Daniel Franco
Fine. I don't know. Like it. You know what I mean? You should maybe give it a I think good. And there's a part of me that almost wants to do it the every day when we start the day with it, like you just said. I think that sounds great.

00:16:42:07 - 00:17:06:24
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yeah, that's. I do it everyday. And the other thing I do is I because I do, I have done the work on purpose and passion. I do have a very clear vision for the future and I spend some time imagining as if it's already happened and feeling those feelings. And when you do that, when we think certain thoughts and we, we it's almost like the emotions we feel when we think those thoughts and we think about our vision, they magnetize the things we need to land into our life.

00:17:06:24 - 00:17:07:15
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I'm sure you've had those.

00:17:07:15 - 00:17:11:02
Daniel Franco
Yeah, well, you are that person. You are the combination of your thoughts, aren't you?

00:17:11:02 - 00:17:27:13
Dr.  Gemma Munro
That's right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So that's the other thing that works really well. And I for those that want to implement balcony time, I really do recommend a certain time each day or certain time each week. For me, it's at the start of the day with coffee. I had one coaching client who does it on a Thursday at 4 p.m..

00:17:27:13 - 00:17:32:26
Dr.  Gemma Munro
She shuts her laptop, she doesn't go home and deal with the kids. She goes to the pub and gives us off to glass of champagne.

00:17:32:26 - 00:17:34:15
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Because it's my favorite time of the week.

00:17:34:15 - 00:17:39:03
Daniel Franco
So is it a pen and paper. Is it? It is, It is, yeah.

00:17:39:03 - 00:17:57:20
Dr.  Gemma Munro
But I do think and this is where the left brain I've got to do it right. Yeah. Comes in because what you do is you start at a certain way, it's like actually that doesn't feel right. I want to focus on this. We make balcony time our own, but I do have some suggested questions if people want to get in touch and I can always for them on.

00:17:57:27 - 00:18:01:20
Daniel Franco
Yeah right beautiful. Right. Number two is like balcony times number one.

00:18:01:20 - 00:18:02:16
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Balcony times number.

00:18:02:16 - 00:18:03:28
Daniel Franco
What was the original question?

00:18:04:00 - 00:18:07:22
Dr.  Gemma Munro
The original question was how do you tap into your perfect and your purpose?

00:18:07:22 - 00:18:13:18
Daniel Franco
Excellent. Well, I don't have them written down. I don't know what I'm on. It's only because it gave me a coffee.

00:18:13:18 - 00:18:17:24
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Daniel feel. Let me take a sip.

00:18:17:27 - 00:18:18:27
Daniel Franco


00:18:18:29 - 00:18:43:17
Dr.  Gemma Munro
So the second time is peace time. And this is where we take conscious times throughout the day. And again if you can ritualized it and routinized it. Is that a word? Make it routine that works really well. Find the practices for you that take you back into alpha brainwaves, which is associated with a whole brain state which takes us back to peace.

00:18:43:17 - 00:19:15:04
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And Martha Beck once said that the universe always wants to deliver your purpose, deliver what you want to you, but it only knows your home address. And your home address is peace and so if we can take these times to get back to peace and I recommend a few things to do that, obviously meditation works really well. Even if it's 5 minutes and there's a free app called Insight Timeout, which is terrific nature and it could be a 20 minute walk, but it could also just be going outside, taking off your shoes and feeling the grass between your toes, that grounding.

00:19:15:08 - 00:19:33:25
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yeah, Yeah. So and you probably have had that experience where you've walked around the corner and you've been in a manic state and you've seen a sunset or sunrise and your whole body just goes, So that that night nature really, really helps music. Have you got pieces of music that just bring you back home to yourself when you play them?

00:19:34:02 - 00:19:35:12
Daniel Franco
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:19:35:19 - 00:19:37:12
Dr.  Gemma Munro
You don't have to share.

00:19:37:15 - 00:19:38:24
Daniel Franco
A few T's with those music.

00:19:38:26 - 00:19:44:11
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Exactly. So having a playlist that brings you back to peace is really useful, you know?

00:19:44:16 - 00:19:45:25
Daniel Franco
Actually, I would share it. Yeah.

00:19:45:25 - 00:19:48:13
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Please.

00:19:48:16 - 00:20:05:16
Daniel Franco
You know, when the greatest showman. Have you ever watch that? Yeah. This. The story of his story of an entrepreneur and all the music is related to the journey in which you go on. So like that. That album in itself is really interesting.

00:20:05:16 - 00:20:06:07
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Come alive.

00:20:06:10 - 00:20:25:25
Daniel Franco
Yeah, Come alive Is probably the one way, the one that hits me the hardest, the most, because that was his realization of Hang on, this is more than just work. It's about family, it's about love. It's about everything else that goes with it. Yeah, I like him a lot when I hang on. Is that it? Come alive and I come alive was when he started.

00:20:25:25 - 00:20:42:18
Daniel Franco
It was at the end when he realized, shit, I stuffed up here. I've gone too far. Anyway. It's one of those sometimes. Yeah. Yeah, but, but I think there is this type of that type of music that relates to what's happening in your life. Yeah, I just love songs and stuff like that. A little bit boring.

00:20:42:20 - 00:21:04:14
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I Yeah. And for me it's classical music, but, but emotional classical music, like movie soundtracks, for instance. Really? yes. La Gallo is a Norwegian, I think, composer who brings me home. But I think we all have music that when we hear it, it triggers our left brain to relax, allows us access to our right.

00:21:04:16 - 00:21:07:27
Daniel Franco
the interstellar and song and

00:21:07:29 - 00:21:08:28
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I've actually never seen that movie.

00:21:08:28 - 00:21:15:16
Daniel Franco
Or haven't, you know, or you're missing. Yeah. Okay, good. And the Inception song, is it John Williams? Is that the. He's the composer.

00:21:15:16 - 00:21:17:17
Dr.  Gemma Munro
He's yeah, he's massively like as in Star Wars.

00:21:17:17 - 00:21:23:08
Daniel Franco
Yes. Yeah, I think he does Interstellar. He's one, which is great. So yes.

00:21:23:11 - 00:21:38:03
Dr.  Gemma Munro
That's like having a peace practice and whether it's meditation music, but you work out what works for you. The other thing that works is creativity. So singing, dancing, cooking for pleasure. Not because you need to make spaghetti bolognaise yet again for the kids.

00:21:38:06 - 00:21:40:03
Daniel Franco
Yeah.

00:21:40:06 - 00:21:48:17
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And, breathing. So actually taking some time just to deepen your breathing really, really helps.

00:21:48:19 - 00:21:55:01
Daniel Franco
So by pace, it's almost another way of saying just take some time out.

00:21:55:04 - 00:22:01:21
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Well, yes, with a caveat, because some of us take time out by scrolling on us.

00:22:01:21 - 00:22:06:10
Daniel Franco
Yeah. Yeah. So without taking time out to be within your own mind.

00:22:06:14 - 00:22:09:27
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Taking time out to just be and I would say it's actually in your body.

00:22:10:03 - 00:22:10:25
Daniel Franco
In your body, yeah.

00:22:10:25 - 00:22:37:20
Dr.  Gemma Munro
It's a quiet thing that, that manic mind in whatever way works for you. And in the what comes next program, I've got a meditation that helps people to do that and then helps them to visualize what's coming. Because you find that once you're in peace, you get these little hits that say you should call this person or or there's this book that's meant for you.

00:22:37:23 - 00:23:06:08
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And also weird stuff kind of lands in. So the number of times I've had, I was in peace one morning and the small still voice in my head, which is how our purpose speaks to us, usually said to me, Get your ass to patch and patch. For those for the listeners who don't know is a restaurant in the Adelaide Hills and my left brain get stuff done was telling me, No, you need to do laundry.

00:23:06:15 - 00:23:26:18
Dr.  Gemma Munro
But I got used to listening to that small still voice. So I went and I had lunch and behind the counter was the owner of the restaurant who's now my fiance, saying, We're getting married this year. So when we are in peace, our intuition tells us the little steps that we need to take to lead us towards purpose.

00:23:26:18 - 00:23:56:19
Daniel Franco
And that's the alchemist, the Romans in The Alchemist, if you have what I am, I have a similar story. I was driving to work one morning and a couple of friends of mine, he's since moved to the US, Andrew Montee and James Begley. They used to run a podcast of two different podcasts. One was a sporting podcast and one was a business podcast and on.

00:23:56:22 - 00:24:22:21
Daniel Franco
And Andrew messaged me that morning saying, Hey, we're interviewing the Mitch Creek, who's the captain of the Adelaide 30 Sixes. We're doing a live podcast. Do you want to come and be part of it and just come and watch? And I went, Yeah, yeah, I'll be there. And that morning I remember saying to my wife, people like, you know, yes, I've got stuff to do, you know what I mean?

00:24:22:22 - 00:24:45:28
Daniel Franco
I wasn't, I wasn't a fuck. Yeah, I was kind of like, yeah, it'd be good to say I'm interested in podcasting because this was before I started the podcast, right? And anyway, I got off the phone, I was on Handsfree, I got in the, the Bluetooth, whatever. I was in the car with my wife and I just told her I'm not going, not can be bothered.

00:24:46:06 - 00:25:12:28
Daniel Franco
I'm too tired kids, you know, whatever. And right then as we hung up the car, a car like car in front of me, I just slam on my brakes and on the back of a car. Had an Adelaide 36 sticker. Right. And I just went rang Wrangler, I'm going to the on going and I did and I fell in love with podcasting and started the podcast and I'm 120 episodes in.

00:25:12:29 - 00:25:18:06
Daniel Franco
So I actually dedicate that car cutting me off and that sticker. Bless that.

00:25:18:09 - 00:25:39:14
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I know there's a saying and that I don't there's a saying it's a word, it's paranoia, which is the opposite of paranoia. And it means that the world is conspiring to shower you with blessings. So even a car cutting across. Yeah, that was a sign for you. You could have got annoyed, but actually instead you had the presence of mind to go, Ooh, yeah.

00:25:39:15 - 00:25:54:27
Daniel Franco
Well, so I think the timing was because that was at the time I was, I just finished The Alchemist as well. Yeah. So I was like give me a, you know what I'm going to write. So but I actually I'm with you on. I do believe that the world will conspire to help you.

00:25:55:03 - 00:25:55:19
Dr.  Gemma Munro
That's right.

00:25:55:19 - 00:25:59:02
Daniel Franco
And if it'll move out of its way so you can walk through.

00:25:59:03 - 00:26:21:29
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And what we have to do is move out of our own way so that we've got the space to see it and then to act on it. Because I do think we're getting a little whispers all the time. But if we're busy, busy, busy, and our mind is busy, busy, busy, then we miss them entirely. Yeah, and I do I completely agree with you that things are kind of flung into our path as a Pemba, you know, turn from fit.

00:26:21:29 - 00:26:22:10
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yeah.

00:26:22:10 - 00:26:26:01
Daniel Franco
So which, by the way, she's. We're, we're trying to organize her coming on the show.

00:26:26:08 - 00:26:27:09
Dr.  Gemma Munro
do you need me to give her a wink and.

00:26:27:09 - 00:26:34:09
Daniel Franco
A do a shout out and actually sniff at this clipping out. Tara, hurry up. Come on. The show.

00:26:34:12 - 00:26:58:03
Dr.  Gemma Munro
So she's one of my very dear friends, and we've got together with me a hunch. And we. We have the Oyster Sisters podcast. Yeah. And we kept bumping into each other in the weirdest of circumstances. So we'd be pushing our kids on swings in playgrounds. We'd never been to. We would we were seated next to each other on a flight over and over work functions.

00:26:58:03 - 00:27:18:16
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And then it was when literally in the car park, just around the corner from here, which we'd never parked up before, the elevator doors opened and we were staring at each other. And it was that moment we went, well, okay, like we meant to do something with each other. And since then, obviously we're very dear friends and we now have the podcast, but we also launched an unstoppable program that reached thousands of women around the world.

00:27:18:18 - 00:27:36:05
Dr.  Gemma Munro
So I do think if we can pay attention to the opportunities and the people and the ideas that come at us from left field, particularly if they're repeated, that is often a sign that leads us to our purpose. But if we're not taking regular peace time, we tend to miss them.

00:27:36:08 - 00:27:51:29
Daniel Franco
Do you think you know what's the best way to ask this question? Do you think these these opportunities pop up more often? If you are clear on your vision and your of what you actually want to do? And B and.

00:27:52:01 - 00:27:53:14
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I.

00:27:53:16 - 00:27:59:04
Daniel Franco
Because I mean, how do you understand and I'm in awe without actually knowing that it's going to connect you.

00:27:59:06 - 00:28:28:25
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yeah. Okay. So I would say yes, that's true in that because where our rational minds are clear in our vision, we know to make sense of those signs, if we're not clear and obvious and I do still think we have those moments come to us, but we need to have more faith. And and the way we know that those moments were meant to act on, we actually feel from the neck down into our body if our body has a yes sign and a no sign.

00:28:28:25 - 00:28:44:16
Dr.  Gemma Munro
So, yeah, you can just everyone can check it really quickly. Now, it's a technique again, I learned from this from Martha Beck. But if you just say out loud, I love fresh air and you feel what happens in your body from the neck down, can you just do it for me now?

00:28:44:17 - 00:28:45:28
Daniel Franco
I love fresh air.

00:28:46:00 - 00:28:48:02
Dr.  Gemma Munro
What's the symptoms from the neck down?

00:28:48:04 - 00:28:53:18
Daniel Franco
Well, my lungs are screaming at me. I don't know what it was.

00:28:53:21 - 00:28:55:14
Dr.  Gemma Munro
All right, try this. Try this. Besides.

00:28:55:16 - 00:29:00:01
Daniel Franco
It's not like we're in a caged room here. There's no fresh air in this room. No carbon dioxide.

00:29:00:01 - 00:29:03:06
Dr.  Gemma Munro
So it's a lovely cold, isn't it? All right.

00:29:03:09 - 00:29:08:27
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Try this, then. Maybe. Close your eyes. I will come back to that. Go say, I love nausea.

00:29:09:00 - 00:29:10:15
Daniel Franco
I love nausea.

00:29:10:17 - 00:29:13:12
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And what does your body do from the neck down? What's the symptoms.

00:29:13:15 - 00:29:14:14
Daniel Franco
Like? Intense is.

00:29:14:21 - 00:29:21:18
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Exactly. Yeah. Now close your eyes again and again. Paying attention to the physical sensations from the neck down. I love fresh air.

00:29:21:24 - 00:29:24:21
Daniel Franco
I love fresh air. Yeah. Opens up.

00:29:24:21 - 00:29:36:20
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Exactly. So our bodies have a yes sun and a no sun. And if you want to know if something's a sign, you just actually ask if this is for anything you could say. Do I want to eat tuna in brine or tuna in olive oil for lunch?

00:29:36:20 - 00:29:44:14
Daniel Franco
I actually felt like it went like. Like it opened up the. Was it cool? The what do you wear it you knock down sort of thing, You know, like.

00:29:44:18 - 00:29:46:08
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Like a dressing gown.

00:29:46:10 - 00:29:50:20
Daniel Franco
Here I am as I said it like it felt like I felt it go whoosh and open like.

00:29:50:21 - 00:29:58:29
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And that's your body's sign for. Yes. So any decision you need to make from now on, you can just check in with your body. It makes life so much easier.

00:29:59:02 - 00:30:01:13
Daniel Franco
But is that the gut feel?

00:30:01:13 - 00:30:03:14
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And it is. I call it the hut Hut!

00:30:03:17 - 00:30:32:08
Daniel Franco
But yeah, I'm okay. Yeah. Before the heart and gut. Yeah. That's the only way you should make decisions. Obviously, with like, some sort of, you know, we've got to make sure we're safe and all that sort of stuff. But it's the Michelle and I, my business partner and I, we made some decisions early on in business that wasn't with our heart and gut, and it backfired on us big time.

00:30:32:09 - 00:30:49:22
Daniel Franco
Yeah. And we actually table that now that we will not make decision unless we ask that it's in our board notes everything we're it's what's you got feel sorry but once you're actually what was your intuition saying. Yeah. Because you can make some really bad decisions when you don't listen to that.

00:30:49:22 - 00:31:06:15
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Absolutely. And I do think a lot of people, particularly in organizations, are stuck in this head based way of making decisions. And I agree with you. There are some coaches out there that would say, you know, take a leap and the net would appear. And I just think that's just silly behavior. You do need to do it back of the envelope calculations.

00:31:06:18 - 00:31:19:01
Dr.  Gemma Munro
But the ultimate decision comes down to how does it make your body feel as opposed to because your mind is based on fear, It's based on keeping you safe, it's based on justifying, it's based on making sure you don't stand out too much.

00:31:19:01 - 00:31:20:01
Daniel Franco
The survival technique.

00:31:20:03 - 00:31:30:23
Dr.  Gemma Munro
That's right. So we need our mind to slice and dice data. That's really important. But when it comes to making big decisions about your purpose and your passion, your mind is actually going to get in the way.

00:31:30:26 - 00:31:41:28
Daniel Franco
Have you done read into the research on gut health and gut microbiome and how that's almost as big as part plays a bigger part of your brain than what your brain does? I should.

00:31:41:28 - 00:31:44:18
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Say my partner, I'm fascinated by that at the moment.

00:31:44:18 - 00:31:47:02
Daniel Franco
I am eating probiotics, but we're going out often.

00:31:47:07 - 00:31:53:21
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yeah, well, he did kind of roll his eyes a bit because I brought home he's older than me and I brought him this.

00:31:53:23 - 00:31:56:27
Dr.  Gemma Munro
This tin of capsules that said probiotics for.

00:31:56:27 - 00:32:01:10
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Over 50 years. Are you kidding me? This is why you're making this.

00:32:01:11 - 00:32:02:13
Daniel Franco
You can't eat the under 41.

00:32:02:13 - 00:32:06:19
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yeah, that's right. Yeah. You're. You're done. I'm sorry, honey.

00:32:06:21 - 00:32:20:28
Daniel Franco
No, but I think there is the more and more studies that are going into your gut health and microbiome, it is actually saying that the decisions are made with you guys. So it's looking after that as much as you can.

00:32:21:00 - 00:32:23:23
Dr.  Gemma Munro
That's right. There's, you know, Professor Tim Spector.

00:32:23:23 - 00:32:28:00
Daniel Franco
Yes. Yes. Diary, the CEO. Yes, I'm sure I heard he wants to do.

00:32:28:03 - 00:32:33:12
Dr.  Gemma Munro
That, too. But he's got this app called Zoe. Yes, but it's not in Australia yet.

00:32:33:12 - 00:32:35:06
Daniel Franco
No, no, I'm, I am waiting.

00:32:35:09 - 00:32:56:21
Dr.  Gemma Munro
On the same I'm on that. So it's for listeners, it actually tracks your glucose. But I think a little pinprick in your arm continuum monitoring and it can tell you what foods help your gut health because we're all wired differently and what foods don't. Yeah, we've, we've gone down a bit of a rabbit hole with gut health but I'm so excited about that I great.

00:32:56:21 - 00:33:08:28
Daniel Franco
Well he's one thing I took away from that podcast was eating three different types of plant. So yeah yeah so bio plants, plants, legumes, all the above 30 different types seeds, even herbs. Herbs.

00:33:08:28 - 00:33:12:05
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yeah. I started picking more herbs from my garden just because of that podcast.

00:33:12:06 - 00:33:23:20
Daniel Franco
Just get the variety and yeah, colorful foods, he said if I remember correctly. Yeah, very good. Alright so we've now we. All right. So the first one was what.

00:33:23:22 - 00:33:24:15
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I love how we do.

00:33:24:15 - 00:33:25:19
Dr.  Gemma Munro
This. Let's just go.

00:33:25:19 - 00:33:27:12
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Here. Remote. First one was balcony.

00:33:27:14 - 00:33:28:24
Daniel Franco
Balcony time, second one was.

00:33:28:24 - 00:33:29:18
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Peace time.

00:33:29:21 - 00:33:30:14
Daniel Franco
And the third.

00:33:30:14 - 00:33:53:07
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Is what I call flow time. And this is ironically scheduled time in your calendar that allows you to do whatever you feel like doing. And it could be half an hour a week. It could be a whole day, a week. It's whatever you're able to do. But in that time and if you can, the more you can live your life like this, in some ways the better.

00:33:53:07 - 00:34:24:29
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Although, yeah, I, I think I think having a good balance of scheduled time and flow time is really wonderful and you need to work out what your balance is. But by allowing yourself low time to just literally go with the flow, you then allow yourself to go, I feel like calling this person. Or I remember the idea for what comes next was born because I gave myself permission to go for a walk at midday on a Wednesday when my past self would have gone.

00:34:25:01 - 00:34:52:05
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Excuse me, What are you doing with Chocolate Whip? Back to work? Yeah. And it was. It was in autumn and the leaves were falling and I just suddenly I saw the whole program. So the more we can allow ourselves to say I have nothing scheduled in this time, it doesn't mean we don't work, but we allow ourselves to be moved and to be drawn to doing what it is we feel like doing.

00:34:52:07 - 00:34:57:06
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Often that leads to it's, again, breadcrumbs towards our purpose and passion.

00:34:57:09 - 00:35:33:00
Daniel Franco
What do you say to the CEOs of the world who like flow time? Like if you think about the role of a CEO, Yeah. Is to inspire a vision, is to build a world class team, you know, all those things. What's the flow time look like when that person is reliant on everyone else to do? I mean, how do you disconnect flow from the work and the every day?

00:35:33:00 - 00:35:41:09
Daniel Franco
Is it flow for self? Is it flow for like what is it Because for an entrepreneur you typically would go into, Well, I'm building a business before. I love it.

00:35:41:12 - 00:35:42:28
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yes.

00:35:43:00 - 00:36:01:05
Daniel Franco
You know, I had this conversation with my team last night, actually, which was very much around, you know, I'm a workhorse. I'm probably a 20 hour person, like always on Never turn off. Yeah. You know, happy to answer. Cool whatever it comes through. And I get often to this people often say this to me. He's like, I couldn't do it.

00:36:01:05 - 00:36:21:27
Daniel Franco
You do podcast business, everything like that. How do you manage it? It's like, Well, I'm asking you, I do it because I absolutely love it, therefore. So when I think about flow, go into that state of what I love, which is business. Yeah. So I find that really hard to disconnect. But for others. So two questions here. What do you suggest to those who are in the corporate space?

00:36:21:27 - 00:36:27:15
Daniel Franco
How do they do you get into flow for work or is it for life? Or like, I don't know.

00:36:27:22 - 00:36:35:26
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And this is it's so fascinating watching your mind at work now is your in your left brain, which is what does full time look like? Yeah. How do you do it? Right. Yeah.

00:36:35:26 - 00:36:37:14
Daniel Franco
Yeah. And and.

00:36:37:14 - 00:36:37:23
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I would.

00:36:37:23 - 00:36:39:14
Daniel Franco
Say just figure it out right.

00:36:39:17 - 00:36:56:15
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And it's not even figure it out because that's your mind's it's and I think it probably is important to start flow time with getting into peace and then actually asking your body, body what do you want to do right now? And sometimes that'll be rest and sometimes it'll be reading a book in bed in the middle of the day.

00:36:56:17 - 00:37:30:20
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Sometimes it be going for a walk. But the number of world class ideas that happen, there's a reason why our best ideas come in the bed, bath and bus. Well, at least I did before we scrolled on our phone throughout all of those because our minds have actually switched off and I think people credit the mind way too much for the ideas that change the world when actually if we want to change the world, we need to be taking time to stop the mind, going to stop the doing and to just stop everything, because that's when the world changing ideas come.

00:37:30:22 - 00:37:46:00
Daniel Franco
And so, yeah, I am CEO, You are. And if my team is sitting around and saying then I'm going into flow state now. Yeah. How do I know what like do you know what I mean?

00:37:46:02 - 00:37:48:22
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Are you wanting to measure their productivity from their flow time?

00:37:48:23 - 00:37:57:09
Daniel Franco
Well so and I'm thinking about like, surely I'm not the only one that would think that. No, no, I understand.

00:37:57:09 - 00:37:58:10
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I'm not judging you.

00:37:58:13 - 00:38:20:24
Daniel Franco
I get it. And because what's the, you know, Google, they what do they have? The 80% 20% rule. So 80% of your work week is spent on doing what needs to be done. 20% is trying to figure out and so that's what Gmail, that's where all these great ideas come from. But that's the business is the dedicated time.

00:38:21:01 - 00:38:28:27
Daniel Franco
Yes. What does it look like if the staff say, we're going to do it? What's the what's the leadership's response to that, I guess is my better question.

00:38:29:00 - 00:38:54:09
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yeah, I do understand. So there would be two models for that. One is being the sort of CEO that trusts that when you let your people off the leash and I'm thinking back to when I was in management consulting and I, I this was a long time ago now, but I had worked a ideal week. I had 100 a week.

00:38:54:09 - 00:39:13:18
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I think I'd flown every single day. It was crazy. And 4:30 p.m. on a Friday, I went home a little bit early instead of staying there to 7 p.m. or PM and I took my dog for a walk and I was looking around like, What if? What if my colleagues see me? So I think an off the CEO would say, I trust my people.

00:39:13:20 - 00:39:33:15
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I trust that they're dedicated to their work. I trust that I've inspired them enough and they're clear on their purpose and they're clear on what it is They're here to do that If they if we say, right Friday mornings are flow time, I'm going to trust you, you might actually not every time, but that's when some ideas might come through.

00:39:33:18 - 00:39:48:17
Dr.  Gemma Munro
But it's not mandated. It's not like we'll report on your productivity from your flight time because that goes against it. Or you can be a little more hands on, which is that as a team, we all do it at a certain time and we're going to just just focus on anything you want, do anything you want. But it's about work.

00:39:48:17 - 00:40:14:00
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And I think that would work fine too. It's just where your comfort zone is. But I do think that organizations and I'm working with a lot of organizations around Australia at the moment where the relentless change and the relentless pace has built up so much to the point where the leaky talent pipeline just keeps getting leaky and leaky because employees are going, I don't need to work here, I can make money elsewhere.

00:40:14:03 - 00:40:28:27
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And I think the organizations that are going to thrive are going to actually give their people the freedom to be who they are. And actually, I do think let them off the leash more than perhaps feels comfortable.

00:40:29:00 - 00:41:02:03
Daniel Franco
What do you say to the leaders that want to do that but have to return value to shareholders in general? I mean, like it's the like, you know, in my gut. Yeah, that sounds right. Yes. What you're saying. Right. and in my gut, allowing our people to be innovative, and, and you know, work on that flow state seems super in the right direction.

00:41:02:05 - 00:41:11:18
Daniel Franco
However, we've got deadlines to meet clients, clients to serve, like all the above, and there's already not enough hours in the day. Yeah.

00:41:11:21 - 00:41:47:29
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And it does, I have to say it does take a leap of faith, but it is backed up by research and I can't study. But I've read recently that there's been research done that shows that actually having a four day week either has no impact on productivity or increases productivity. And so back to that leaky talent pipeline. If as leaders, we can trust our people to in that flow time, if they need to rest, to rest, you are not going to get the best out of your people if they feel like they have to produce all the time because they then they're going to get stuck in that left brain.

00:41:47:29 - 00:42:16:12
Dr.  Gemma Munro
They will give you ideas that will give you products or programs, whatever it is that you're developing in your business that will give you tried and tested things that they know are safe as opposed to pushing the margins. And so I you know, if you're wanting a business to not just grow but but thoroughly outperform the competition, I actually think investing in your people's flow time and leaning into the discomfort of doing so because it's a wild new way of doing business.

00:42:16:15 - 00:42:22:05
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I think that's going to reap rewards. But you won't be able to trust that until you see it.

00:42:22:07 - 00:42:26:22
Daniel Franco
And the benefits will be realized in the longer term too. They're not.

00:42:26:22 - 00:43:02:16
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And that that kind of I do think followers what they're wanting and again research backs this up what followers are wanting from their leaders is that focus on long term, is that focus on innovation, compassion, empathy, kindness, creativity, collaboration. And the old school of leadership says productivity, busyness results, short term thinking, short term results. And people are leaving organizations that are focused on those things.

00:43:02:19 - 00:43:33:00
Daniel Franco
Yes, the leaky tap of talent. and is often because leaders are focused on the short term, right? Yeah. What's your advice to leaders who like me, who know that the long term is where it's like, that's what we should be thinking about? So always play the long game, however, have needs that you know, in order to survive now as a business.

00:43:33:03 - 00:43:44:10
Daniel Franco
Yeah you know so there's like this this push and pull Yeah constant And how do you find that happy medium and how much time do you dedicate to one or the other and.

00:43:44:12 - 00:44:06:18
Dr.  Gemma Munro
It is really difficult. And I built a business and eventually sold it because I think we might have mentioned last time I realized I don't enjoy growing a business, You know, that's not what I'm here to do. That's not my purpose. So I really acknowledge that is tricky and I think the balance depends on every single situation. But what I would say is have that the brain has a tendency to go into binaries.

00:44:06:18 - 00:44:12:18
Dr.  Gemma Munro
So it's like either I need to be this old school leader that's all about productivity or I need to be, you know, in a.

00:44:12:18 - 00:44:16:16
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Moomoo, you know, just smoking a joint, allowing everyone to roam free.

00:44:16:16 - 00:44:19:20
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yeah, there's a space in between that we can play.

00:44:19:23 - 00:44:22:08
Daniel Franco
Although the second sounds.

00:44:22:10 - 00:44:24:06
Dr.  Gemma Munro
The wicked get many results though.

00:44:24:06 - 00:44:28:14
Daniel Franco
I mean, you're never going to look good in, but I.

00:44:28:14 - 00:44:31:21
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Think so I'm saying for I'm saying flowing.

00:44:31:24 - 00:44:32:04
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Very.

00:44:32:04 - 00:44:33:13
Daniel Franco
Colorful among.

00:44:33:16 - 00:44:36:05
Dr.  Gemma Munro
You do. Yeah, you do.

00:44:36:08 - 00:44:58:07
Dr.  Gemma Munro
So I think it's the other thing I would say is if you can focus on the big picture vision always, but then the the small little steps you can take and making those steps as few as possible. Because if your life and your days and your employee's days are filled with those steps, then you're actually going to get out of alignment with your vision for the business anyway.

00:44:58:09 - 00:45:03:13
Dr.  Gemma Munro
So that combination of big vision, little tiny steps works really well.

00:45:03:16 - 00:45:14:18
Daniel Franco
Yeah, great. So balcony, peace flow, flow. And that was to tap into our intuition.

00:45:14:21 - 00:45:24:09
Dr.  Gemma Munro
To in order for up that our purpose to reveal itself to us. Because I do believe it does when our minds are quiet enough to pay attention.

00:45:24:11 - 00:45:52:29
Daniel Franco
And say we've stumbled upon that we've found the thing that makes us sing. Yeah, What next? The world is a busy place. There's there's money issues, there's work issues, There's issues. Is everything else. Not issues, but things that get in the way. And what what's our next step? And I'm just going to take your point of, you know, step by step one thing at a time.

00:45:53:05 - 00:46:02:21
Daniel Franco
But there's this there's there'd be millions of people in that space, right? Yeah, I know what I want to do, but I can't.

00:46:02:25 - 00:46:31:27
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yeah, absolutely. So if people are in that in that space, there are often a few things going on when we uncover our purpose. Ironically, the first thing that happens is and it's really natural what happens to everyone. Our left amygdala goes up. No, absolutely. No, I'm not going to let you do that. And it's up to us to explore the fears and the stories and the beliefs that sit underneath that.

00:46:32:00 - 00:46:37:29
Dr.  Gemma Munro
So some people have a fear of failing. Some people have a fear of succeeding because what happens then?

00:46:38:02 - 00:46:47:02
Daniel Franco
Some people That's a marianne Williamson quote. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. No, our fear is that because I know no light, no doubt darkness is our biggest fear.

00:46:47:03 - 00:47:15:01
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Biggest fear. Exactly. Some people fear what others will think of them. So one of the things we do and it's really interesting in the, in week four, what comes next, we do a group coaching call and it's literally it's called clear the blockers. And so everyone gets to share. Here's what's holding me back and the reasons we're held back are so intricate and varied, but I do think the main ones are fear of failure, fear of success.

00:47:15:03 - 00:47:20:06
Dr.  Gemma Munro
What will they think? What if I can't find the money? What if I don't have the time? The other?

00:47:20:09 - 00:47:34:08
Daniel Franco
What about if it's I just can't be bothered then does that mean you haven't found? Because, you know, it's like, I want to I, I want to get into business, I want to do this, but I just couldn't be bothered. I haven't found the right thing or what we just sell or whatever it might be.

00:47:34:10 - 00:47:49:27
Dr.  Gemma Munro
The that's one of two possibilities. One is you haven't landed on the things. I always think that when you on what it is you're here to do, you've got a sense of exhilaration and terror. So if you just like.

00:47:49:29 - 00:47:51:23
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I haven't found the right widget to so.

00:47:51:23 - 00:47:52:23
Dr.  Gemma Munro
It's probably not the right.

00:47:52:23 - 00:47:54:28
Daniel Franco
Thing.

00:47:55:00 - 00:48:11:02
Dr.  Gemma Munro
The other thing is you are procrastinating because you know that this thing is going to help you be who you're here to be. And we have a natural fear of doing that. So we just need to tune in to see which one of those things is well.

00:48:11:04 - 00:48:14:16
Daniel Franco
Or it seems too hard. And you just want to watch Netflix or not.

00:48:14:22 - 00:48:39:02
Dr.  Gemma Munro
That's right. Because we do like comfort and part of the the the thing we need to do to move towards our purpose is lean into the courage of being uncomfortable, of not knowing everything, of not knowing whether it's going to work out. Because one of the things that that stops us back is this fear. It stops us from going for our purpose is this fear that we don't have all the steps planned.

00:48:39:02 - 00:48:59:03
Dr.  Gemma Munro
This isn't a charted course. And there's this catastrophizing that happens. What if I end up on the street eating cat food or feeding my kids cat food? Our brains go there. So I would say a couple of things. One, you can map out the fears and actually say, well, what if that came true? What if I did fail?

00:48:59:03 - 00:49:14:23
Dr.  Gemma Munro
What would I do? What if what if this didn't work out? What if people didn't think this was a great idea? What would I do? And in mapping those fears, it's a Tim Ferriss exercise. You kind of get that fear based brain out of the way. The second thing is what we were talking about before, which is the small steps.

00:49:14:23 - 00:49:35:07
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And I do think we get we confuse ourselves into thinking, I need to have it all mapped out. I need to be guaranteed that I can pay my mortgage for the next five years. And that's not going to happen in your current life anymore. It's just not. So the more you can again tune into your body from the neck down and ask yourself, what's the next tiny little right step?

00:49:35:07 - 00:49:53:17
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And just take that you find that the next step appears and then the next step after that. So again, big vision of, I don't know exactly what it is, but I know it's something to do with this. And that's really compelling me and terrifying me in equal measure. And then what is the little tiny step I can take?

00:49:53:17 - 00:50:01:07
Dr.  Gemma Munro
So whether it's booking a venue or researching a business name, whatever it is, after you take that step, the next step is.

00:50:01:09 - 00:50:20:15
Daniel Franco
Yeah, I agree with that. I think I'm discussing my mind back to when I stepped out of my where I was working on a self government role. Yeah. and stepped out of that and I, I was going to ask you, I think, but you kind of mentioned, I was going to say, can you almost have a second type of purpose?

00:50:20:17 - 00:50:46:24
Daniel Franco
Is there one purpose? Because yeah, if I was going to say like when I stepped out, it was because I was this, you know, young, so much green. I didn't I had hair and me and it wasn't gray. And I remember at that time going people, the leadership just they just don't like they don't know what they're doing.

00:50:46:26 - 00:51:06:16
Daniel Franco
They treat people like shit. They and you know, I'm kind of hand on heart say maybe I'm not the best leader either, but I had this sort of passion to say, no, something needs to be done and change. And I knew more than anything else actually was I didn't want to work for anyone. I wanted to work for myself.

00:51:06:16 - 00:51:26:15
Daniel Franco
That was probably the first thing that was leading me to wanting to step out is I think I can do a better job if I was to go out and create something and then then I met my business partner who asked me to come and join it. Right? So the world opened up. Yeah. And, and, and I did.

00:51:26:15 - 00:51:37:19
Daniel Franco
But I can honestly say that my passion and my purpose has evolved over time. It's completely different to when I stepped out.

00:51:37:23 - 00:51:38:19
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Absolutely.

00:51:38:21 - 00:52:06:07
Daniel Franco
And you just find new things along the way and you just like the podcast for me is one that absolutely connects me and I'm able to share amazing people stories to the world. But then not only that, I'm now passionate about creating a business where people want to work and feel like they belong. and you know, and so constantly my purpose just keeps evolving with as I'm going.

00:52:06:09 - 00:52:24:09
Daniel Franco
And it's not just that's my North Star. I'm just going to get to that. It's it just evolves as time goes on. Is that so? That's what I mean by second. You don't have to exactly find what it is, but you have to find something in your gut almost that suggests this is who I want to be and where I want to go.

00:52:24:11 - 00:52:54:26
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yeah, I think you're right. I would phrase it slightly differently in that you will find that through all the iterations of how your purpose has revealed itself to you, there's a golden thread that carries through all of them, and it's probably really vague and very big picture. So for me, I know that I'm here to help people see that spark inside of themselves, to light it up and then to, to, to cross the sounds a little naff.

00:52:54:26 - 00:53:29:05
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I don't usually say this out loud, but across the alchemical bridge, as in to help them transform, to be the person they're here to be and to do what they're here to do. But that has taken so many different forms throughout my life, in my career, and it changes all the time. So I think if you can be aware of that, that golden thread and almost have a statement of this is what I'm here to do, but know that the way that expresses itself will change over the time and actually just be really present enough to go, I'm being pulled in this direction to express this purpose.

00:53:29:07 - 00:53:47:00
Dr.  Gemma Munro
That's it's not like I have this one purpose, and it's to create a business that makes this much money. It's not that concrete. It's it's an almost amorphous picture that makes us feel a certain way. And then we do different things throughout our career in life that lead us along that path.

00:53:47:03 - 00:53:49:08
Daniel Franco
And it doesn't have to be about work, does it?

00:53:49:10 - 00:53:50:18
Dr.  Gemma Munro
No, of course not.

00:53:50:21 - 00:54:03:04
Daniel Franco
So you can just go to work and yeah, let's just say that's standard 9 to 5. Yeah, but put your hand up to do some volunteer work and, and give back to the community that way.

00:54:03:04 - 00:54:31:18
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And I do think that the biggest, the biggest difference we actually make is the, it's almost like the scent we leave behind. Let me explain that. It's, it's how we make others feel after we've left a room. Yeah. How have we left that room? How have we left those people? And so therefore, in lots of ways, you could have a purpose that is all about how you want to be in the world.

00:54:31:18 - 00:54:49:24
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And then what you are doing is just an avenue for that. So not everyone is going to be here to start a business. Yeah, not everyone is going to be really clear on what it is they want to do to make the world a better place, except for the fact that the how of how they choose to be in the world.

00:54:49:24 - 00:54:53:03
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Just that makes the world a better place.

00:54:53:05 - 00:54:59:08
Daniel Franco
And I have the tendency to believe if you are making the world a better place, things follow you and opportunities follow you.

00:54:59:08 - 00:55:02:03
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And yeah, there's. There's much room for grace.

00:55:02:03 - 00:55:14:25
Daniel Franco
Yeah, Yeah. All right. Yeah. The, the opportunities will will arise if you're working towards your purpose. I honestly believe that as and I think that's what you're saying as well.

00:55:15:01 - 00:55:23:16
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And I see it all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Moments that seem like a coincidence, but I do believe in serendipity.

00:55:23:19 - 00:55:31:20
Daniel Franco
So what's next? What comes next is your program. I mean, what, what do you help people do in that?

00:55:31:23 - 00:56:00:07
Dr.  Gemma Munro
So it's an eight week group coaching program and it essentially helps people to work out what they want to do, to work out their what I call their gold, which is their giant, outrageous, liberating dream. And that dream doesn't have to be huge. It can be small, it can be soft, but whatever it is that lights them up, the thing they're here to do, the person they want to be, what they want to be when they grow up, and then it gives them clarity on that, but then it gives them the courage to go ahead and make that a reality.

00:56:00:09 - 00:56:22:10
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And I'm really data driven and evidence driven. So in our inaugural program last year, we did a pre and post program survey just to look at where people were at the start of the program versus at the end. And by the end, 100% of participants were clear on their vision for the future. They were hopeful and excited about the the their vision and the future.

00:56:22:13 - 00:56:32:17
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And they said that they've got the courage to go ahead and the tools to go ahead and the know how to go ahead and make that a reality compared to, I think it was on average 16% at the start of the year. So a big.

00:56:32:17 - 00:56:36:06
Daniel Franco
Shift. Have you been following their progress? Well, the people have been on this show.

00:56:36:06 - 00:56:44:29
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I'm still in touch with them. I just I actually miss their company. We formed a really tight group and they're going to be advocating for the program, which is really lovely.

00:56:44:29 - 00:56:47:18
Daniel Franco
And you've got a new program coming up shortly.

00:56:47:21 - 00:56:48:21
Dr.  Gemma Munro
What comes next?

00:56:48:25 - 00:56:50:18
Daniel Franco
Yeah, is that is that the same? That's the.

00:56:50:18 - 00:56:51:08
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Same one.

00:56:51:10 - 00:56:52:26
Daniel Franco
But you're, you're doing another one.

00:56:52:28 - 00:56:53:27
Dr.  Gemma Munro
That's right. Exactly.

00:56:53:28 - 00:56:56:23
Daniel Franco
Are you do something you constantly do. Is it twice a year. Twice. Yes.

00:56:56:23 - 00:56:58:09
Dr.  Gemma Munro
The next one starts May 3rd.

00:56:58:12 - 00:57:04:08
Daniel Franco
May the third. Yeah. Brilliant. What? I'm interested in the liberating dream. But you said gold. What was it?

00:57:04:10 - 00:57:08:02
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Giant, outrageous, Liberating dream.

00:57:08:04 - 00:57:17:15
Daniel Franco
How? What are some practical tips that someone could think about that now? Start thinking about what they want to be when they grow up.

00:57:17:20 - 00:57:40:23
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Two questions they can ask themselves. First is What would I do if I wasn't afraid? And the second is if I knew everything that I touched would turn to gold and what would I choose to do? How would I spend my time? Actually, a bonus third question is if I was guaranteed a salary that kept me not just comfortable but living the life I want to live for the next four years, how would I spend my time?

00:57:40:25 - 00:58:03:28
Dr.  Gemma Munro
So when you remove fears, practical considerations out of the way and we allow ourselves to dream as opposed to go, I do think what we vision, we we make this mistake of sitting down as I write. I'm going to set a vision now and we end up, if we're in that manic mind and we end up with very safe things that other people will find impressive.

00:58:04:00 - 00:58:29:11
Dr.  Gemma Munro
But are they coming from our heart or are they coming from our gut? Are they coming from our intuition? They're not so if we can get the the fears out of the way and tap into what it is we would do if they weren't there, that's a really good clue. But the the program has about 17 tools that that are taught, you know, strengths and values and getting into dreaming brain.

00:58:29:13 - 00:58:31:14
Dr.  Gemma Munro
People can have a look at the program. There are a number of teams.

00:58:31:14 - 00:58:39:10
Daniel Franco
Yeah. Like I'm sitting here right now trying to figure out what my liberating dream is. Yeah.

00:58:39:15 - 00:58:41:28
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Or our and living it.

00:58:42:00 - 00:59:07:07
Daniel Franco
I don't know. I think that's point I, I absolutely love what I'm doing. Yeah. I love what we're creating. Yeah. you know, we're creating a, a business that is specializes in change, workplace change. Yeah. and we know for a fact that no one's doing it the way we're doing it and the results are showing and the like.

00:59:07:07 - 00:59:24:07
Daniel Franco
It's really exciting. Yeah. And I think I guess I'm speaking from someone who's currently living at a dream, I think. But I don't know that this was my dream when I set out to do it.

00:59:24:09 - 00:59:27:02
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Absolutely. Yeah. And so you cultural shift.

00:59:27:03 - 00:59:27:16
Daniel Franco
Yeah.

00:59:27:17 - 00:59:59:02
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yeah. I my dream was to when I was in management consulting was to start a one on one coaching business with a tagline for those who have an inkling that life is meant to be extraordinary. And then it shifted to women's leadership and then it will form different iterations. But what I would say to you is do you feel a combination of peaceful at home and yourself joyful and so free that it feels like sometimes you're just naked in a stiff breeze like that?

00:59:59:04 - 01:00:05:09
Dr.  Gemma Munro
what, what, what, what would it be that would give you that feeling And are you doing that right.

01:00:05:09 - 01:00:08:24
Daniel Franco
Now are going to would be if out the noise to settle.

01:00:08:27 - 01:00:29:13
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Bingo. That's you spot on and this is what I get going back right back to the start of a conversation. This is why I get really frustrated with your conventional purpose in passion courses or books is they don't talk about how to make the noise stop. So if the noise stopped, what that free you up to do?

01:00:29:16 - 01:01:04:06
Daniel Franco
Well, like, well it would continue to be continue to grow this thing that I love growing as opposed to being stuck in the doing. Got it. but then it would also allow me to travel and study and learn. And, you know, I think for me, you know, the values of Synergy IQ in a business in which I run and co-founded is wisdom, grit, optimism and daring the kind of different values to most companies.

01:01:04:08 - 01:01:38:03
Daniel Franco
Yeah. but wisdom for me is always been the one. And this is why I started this podcast. It's about how do I continue to strive to learn more? Yeah, to improve myself and those around me. And yeah, I think if I was, if I was actually to sit back and look at it, I would want to be in a position where I can spend time thinking and learning and innovating and, speaking to those who have done it before or done something similar or some done something different.

01:01:38:03 - 01:02:03:22
Daniel Franco
And yeah, trying to mold that because I, for me, I love the chase. Yeah, that's the part that excites me the most. And the, the ambiguity and the stepping into discomfort is something that I don't know. Maybe it's a little bit sadistic is something that I enjoy because, you know, walking into a dark room and not knowing where you are, you are there's well, I've got to figure this out.

01:02:03:25 - 01:02:15:12
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yes. So I would ask you, you love the chase. Is that always true? Do you want your life to be around that all the time?

01:02:15:14 - 01:02:42:09
Daniel Franco
No, I think and this comes back to, you know, growing up, I played sport at quite an elite level in my junior career. And you would you would you would reach a goal or a target or you win a premiership. And then I would just be like, what's next? Right? Like, And therefore it becomes this constant almost hamster wheel of trying to improve and get better.

01:02:42:16 - 01:02:50:17
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And I can tell you now that comes from your left brain, which is I'm not going to let myself think I'm good enough until I've reached this goal.

01:02:50:20 - 01:02:52:28
Daniel Franco
And then just set the next goal and then you set the next.

01:02:52:28 - 01:03:15:13
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Goal and you never give yourself the credit that you deserve and you never stop and go, Look what I did because you're always chasing and you cannot find peace when you're always chasing. So I agree with you. Sometimes the chase and the hustle is fun. Yeah, when it's in flow, it's great. But when it's driven by the sense of I have to prove myself so that I can feel peaceful, you don't actually ever feel peaceful.

01:03:15:16 - 01:03:28:00
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And the sense I get and you can tell me where I'm wrong, but the sense I get from you is that your heart, Your heart and your gut are craving the space.

01:03:28:02 - 01:03:30:12
Daniel Franco
To.

01:03:30:15 - 01:03:40:22
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Be, to explore, like you said, to travel that that freedom away from. So not saying you're letting go of this entirely, but it's it's a tweak to find a bit more balance.

01:03:40:24 - 01:03:49:04
Daniel Franco
Yes. I'm going to lie but you I mean you've got I've got no other choice at the moment.

01:03:49:06 - 01:03:50:26
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Is that true?

01:03:50:29 - 01:04:10:00
Daniel Franco
Well, yeah. I mean, yeah, I can see I think about I want I guess when you're in, in any sort of phase of scale up you. Yeah. You can definitely start relying on other people more and ambling that off.

01:04:10:02 - 01:04:17:26
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I can tell you there are multiple ways you can go about it that will give you space immediately, but there'll be part of you that doesn't want to let go of that.

01:04:18:02 - 01:04:41:25
Daniel Franco
make every excuse under the sun. That's how. But why? Why do people make excuses? And in that space, like I think about the world, let's use the world of the corporate space and or even just entrepreneurship of start scale up, whatever it is. Whenever someone does get challenged and someone is held accountable, there is a thousand excuses as to why they can't do that.

01:04:41:25 - 01:04:51:12
Daniel Franco
Why? Why do those excuses continually occur? And and we put and we create reasons as to why we're not able to achieve what we want to achieve.

01:04:51:13 - 01:05:26:14
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yeah, of course we do. And we're not bad or stupid or lazy for doing so. So half of our brain is wired to keep us in a box that others are going to find understandable, to keep us playing it safe. And there'll be part of you that goes okay. If I was to take the hands off the control button just a little bit, there will be a fear that it'll all go to crap.

01:05:26:16 - 01:05:52:00
Dr.  Gemma Munro
There will also be a fear of if I allow myself, myself, peace. Life's going to change. Like what might come up in that piece. And I'm not saying this applies to you, but I see a lot of people say I am just going to keep going because I don't know if I'm going to be able to handle what it is that comes up when I stop, because this is familiar, this is comfortable.

01:05:52:03 - 01:06:17:15
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And I also think that there is a belief for many people that they don't necessarily feel worthy of peace or worthy of space or worthy of their big vision. And so it's almost a self-sabotaging thing, which Brad Gates says that self-sabotage is always misguided, self-love because we're trying to protect ourselves. But it's almost this thing of when we start to explore, what if this is possible?

01:06:17:22 - 01:06:46:03
Dr.  Gemma Munro
It's a back in your box, sweetheart, because you're not worthy of that. So it's really helpful to try to tease out when you, for instance, Daniel, when you imagine taking that step. So imagine a life where there is more space, where you're traveling, where you're talking to people, where you're not in the doing all the time, what's the fear that comes up and where does that fear come from?

01:06:46:03 - 01:07:10:00
Daniel Franco
Well, the fear comes up. The business goes backwards, right? The business, there's this inherent ego that, yeah, the things that aren't required and I mean to step out. I think it goes with anyone that's running a business of some sort. To step out is risk. If you haven't set it up.

01:07:10:02 - 01:07:31:06
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Right, right. And so because we feel that fear, we then don't go down the path of. All right, let me just play with this for a bit. If I was to say, firstly, stepping for three years, what would I want? Like if I was living a life that which just so true to my values, to my strengths, to who I want to be in the world, to how I want to live my life.

01:07:31:06 - 01:07:48:05
Dr.  Gemma Munro
What does that look like? Secondly, what are some steps I could take to set that up? We almost don't look at that. And what are the steps? I could take because there's too much fear there. So part of the way that we overcome the fear is to actually get really practical. If I did want that life, what would it look like?

01:07:48:08 - 01:07:56:20
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And feels really uncomfortable to even consider it. But once you actually start to map it out, a practical level is like, actually, maybe that is doable and we start to believe it's possible.

01:07:56:20 - 01:07:58:10
Daniel Franco
So this is my balcony time right?

01:07:58:12 - 01:07:59:26
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Exactly right.

01:07:59:29 - 01:08:07:15
Daniel Franco
This is where I need to spend that time thinking about that, because it's not just I'm going to do it in tomorrow. I'm a big I glasses case. Figure it out. No.

01:08:07:17 - 01:08:25:07
Dr.  Gemma Munro
That's it. And again, it goes back to thinking that we're going to have all the solutions at once. But what you'll be doing is the big picture vision looks like this and what are some small things I can do to start getting there?

01:08:25:09 - 01:08:46:16
Daniel Franco
Yeah, good point. I like it. What time? What do you see are the main things I hope people back from realizing their own purpose or. Yeah, they're hitting their goals in life because you would see a lot. You would hear a lot of excuses.

01:08:46:18 - 01:08:57:29
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yeah. And like I said before, they're so varied, but there is a lack of self-belief. There's a lack of self-worth. Like who am I saying? Who am I to think this is possible?

01:08:57:29 - 01:08:58:29
Daniel Franco
The imposter syndrome.

01:08:59:06 - 01:09:23:03
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yeah, there is the the I should take the path that makes sense to others as opposed to the path. I think I read somewhere that, you know, you only know your path is yours if no one has paved it before. And I would say to people, what if your path looks entirely different to others who've come before you?

01:09:23:03 - 01:09:46:02
Dr.  Gemma Munro
What if you're here to pave an entirely new path and blaze a new trial that makes people go, I could do that, But we don't consider ourselves worthy of that. So I think self-doubt, I think society teaching us to that. We need to finish school, for instance, got a uni, get a job, and then we've made it and we stop.

01:09:46:02 - 01:10:11:24
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I think that gets people in people's way. We are always uncovering our purpose bit by bit and we're not taught the tools to uncover that. And I think the other biggest thing is what we've been talking about a lot during this episode, which is not allowing the time for our purpose and passion to speak to us because like I said, it speaks to us in that small, still soft voice.

01:10:11:27 - 01:10:30:16
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And if we are doing, doing, doing because we feel this pressure to keep going and so many people I know are on this hamster wheel of, you know, back to back meetings, emails that just keep building up, phone calls that need to be returned, kids lunches that need to be made, never stopping to go. Let me just quieten that for a moment.

01:10:30:22 - 01:10:52:09
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Okay. What's Next for me. So not having the the know how not being taught, how to do that, not giving ourselves permission to do that, that stands in the way of our purpose too. It's a multi-faceted thing. It's not just our you don't know your strengths and you don't know your values. That's part of it. But there are multiple pieces of the puzzle.

01:10:52:11 - 01:11:16:16
Daniel Franco
Where does mental health come in all this? Like when we talk about this hamster wheel and rat race that everyone's joining this this busy lives? Yeah. Is this sort of the answer to the mental health crisis at the moment, Like it or not, I mean, like it because as you were talking there, I was thinking the actual first question I was going to ask that popped in my head was, what does the world look like when everyone is living to their purpose?

01:11:16:16 - 01:11:26:15
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yeah, I would start by saying I'm not a mental health expert, so I have a passion in performance psychology.

01:11:26:17 - 01:11:27:21
Daniel Franco
What's your opinion.

01:11:27:24 - 01:11:59:05
Dr.  Gemma Munro
There? We go I can I can answer that. My my opinion is that and I'm looking at are kids these days who have inherited this world where everything is on a screen. Everything is about being stimulated all the time getting access to answer questions straightaway. There's and given hardly any time where there's no stimulation to just be and to be.

01:11:59:07 - 01:12:37:15
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And I think part of our mental health crisis is that we don't have the space in our minds to just be and be bored. We don't have that quiet time. And so our minds go and better brainwaves and better brainwaves are associated with anxiety. They're associated with feeling low when we're in it too often and too much. So I think the more we can teach people to take the time to, hop into alpha brainwaves to become whole brained, then yes, people will naturally, I believe, uncover their purposes and their passion and what they're here to do.

01:12:37:15 - 01:12:41:24
Dr.  Gemma Munro
But I also think they're going to experience much more mental health. That is my opinion.

01:12:42:00 - 01:12:58:22
Daniel Franco
So to the question that I just asked him, which was what is the world look like if everyone is living to their purpose? Yeah, we wouldn't like that. I don't want to. Look, this isn't a comment to degrade anyone, but we wouldn't have any people driving garbage trucks. Right. Like everyone was living to that purpose.

01:12:58:25 - 01:13:00:21
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I don't necessarily know if that's true.

01:13:00:21 - 01:13:01:03
Daniel Franco
Okay.

01:13:01:04 - 01:13:30:03
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yeah. So I, I purpose can reveal itself. We have the sense that purpose needs to be something where you're doing something big and shiny and amazing in the world. And I don't think that's always it. It can reveal itself in really quiet ways and in some ways like like I said before, some people have a purpose that is much more to do with who they are in the world and how they want to be as opposed to what they're doing.

01:13:30:06 - 01:13:55:14
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Okay, having said that, and I don't want to get to utopian given that especially where the world is now, but if if everyone has the capacity, capability, know how to, step into a whole brain state and uncover who it is they are and who it is they want to be, I can see that conflict in the world would reduce dramatically.

01:13:55:16 - 01:14:19:20
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I can see that there would be a much bigger focus on long term sustainability. I think a lot of the world's biggest problems would actually start. I think it would take time, but that would start to get solved because people would know what the next right step is and it wouldn't be based on ego and it wouldn't be based in needing to prove themselves to be right and keep everyone safe.

01:14:19:23 - 01:14:34:19
Dr.  Gemma Munro
The other thing with the left brain state is it's about me, as opposed to us. And when we get to move to a whole brain state, we are much more aware of the collective and we're wanting to play our part in making it good for everyone.

01:14:34:22 - 01:15:09:17
Daniel Franco
Yes. Yes. It's about giving to others, isn't it? Is so anthropologically, right? We we we came from the caves or wherever we you know, we evolved over time. Yeah. And our purpose then was to, to find food and create shelter and, you know, the basic human needs. Do you think that because now we're in a state where we can just survive and there is shelter readily available, which is why our purpose has evolved to be what we be and who can we be?

01:15:09:17 - 01:15:27:23
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yeah, of course. So Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, unless we have shelter and food, we're not going to be able to look at self-actualization. So yes. And this is why I'm also really clear that not everyone is lucky enough to be in a position to say, Well, who am I and who do I want to be held?

01:15:27:26 - 01:15:31:17
Daniel Franco
But everyone has a choice.

01:15:31:19 - 01:15:32:17
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Say more about that.

01:15:32:21 - 01:15:53:27
Daniel Franco
I mean, you hear about some of the great stories that come out of a child who was abused and, you know, come from a poor upbringing and created an amazing life for themselves so that that child made a choice that they didn't want to be like their parents.

01:15:54:00 - 01:16:10:07
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yes. And I it's I believe that that choice is possible. And I believe that there are many, many things that would get in the way of people from that background making that choice that we need to address. So I'm not a big believer in everyone can pick themselves up on this because it's just not true.

01:16:10:07 - 01:16:11:03
Daniel Franco
It's not that simple.

01:16:11:03 - 01:16:15:10
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yeah, exactly right. Yeah.

01:16:15:12 - 01:16:27:06
Daniel Franco
So your mission in life and vision is to see as many people reach their purpose as possible. Is that like, what is your.

01:16:27:09 - 01:17:12:14
Dr.  Gemma Munro
My, my big picture? The big picture thing I want to do is play my very small part in uplifting humanity in, in elevating human consciousness, which for me is it involves through speaking, coaching, writing, helping people to see that they have this light in them, helping them to work out how to shine that out to the world, to create that ripple effect, and then if they see this light in them and they know that they're not expressing that the way that they want to, the way they should be, how do they transform a way that is relatively easy for surprisingly enjoyable so they can make it a reality for themselves?

01:17:12:17 - 01:17:23:28
Daniel Franco
Yeah, but if you were standing on top of a rooftop, what would you what would you yell out? Like what? What do you want the world to know? What's in Gemma's brain that the world needs to know?

01:17:24:00 - 01:17:47:21
Dr.  Gemma Munro
So much done. You let me think about that for a moment. That the world needs you. I'd be dressing and the way I do my work. Even though I work in organizations a lot, I do think and I really admire the work that you do, because organizational change is hard and it takes time. And the way I like to approach it is lighting up individual hearts and minds at a time.

01:17:47:21 - 01:18:09:12
Dr.  Gemma Munro
So I'd be speaking to individuals and I would say you are needed. And if you have a sense that there's something in you that you are here to do, let go of the doubt as much as you can, the fire, as much as you can, because the world needs that. We need you to be exactly who you are.

01:18:09:13 - 01:18:16:08
Dr.  Gemma Munro
That's how you're designed and you're designed that way on purpose. So go for it.

01:18:16:10 - 01:18:41:03
Daniel Franco
I mean, that's a tough bridge to walk on, isn't it? Like that? Even to this day, I suffer of imposter syndrome. Yeah, You know, and I've sat in a room one on one with some amazing human beings like yourself and. And learn from them directly. And yet. And then people come to me and they ask me for my opinion on something and like, why the hell would you ask me?

01:18:41:03 - 01:19:03:01
Daniel Franco
Like, why wouldn't you ask the people that you've I've spoken to like that that clearly? Yeah. So when you say that the world needs you. Yeah. How do you believe in yourself to say yes? Like, yes, I do. Without being, you know, up yourself or I might be.

01:19:03:03 - 01:19:03:24
Dr.  Gemma Munro
And this.

01:19:03:24 - 01:19:05:08
Daniel Franco
Is. You don't want to walk around like.

01:19:05:11 - 01:19:07:12
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yeah, you know, you want to be in there.

01:19:07:15 - 01:19:08:29
Daniel Franco
Yeah. Yeah. I means of.

01:19:08:29 - 01:19:30:02
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Course. But this is the thing. This is one of the things, one of the ways we hold ourselves back. We think that if we step into our power, if we step into our authority, if we use the lessons, the experiences we've had that set up to do something that no one else is set up to do, that we are going to turn into arrogant assholes and it's simply not true.

01:19:30:02 - 01:19:49:13
Dr.  Gemma Munro
In fact, I would say if you've got a fear of being an arrogant asshole, you are just not an arrogant asshole. And I also think there's this myth that once we have uncovered what it is, we're here to do, that we have no doubts anymore. We have no fears. And it is not true. You know, I speak about courage and I speak about transformation.

01:19:49:13 - 01:19:57:00
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I speak about finding a wild, new way of working. And there are moments, regular moments where I'm like, really?

01:19:57:00 - 01:19:58:08
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Like, Jim, look at your.

01:19:58:08 - 01:20:15:16
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Life, because no one is perfect. And I am learning all the time, as are you. So we set ourselves up to fail. If we think that if if we are going to find our purpose, then make it a reality. Things are going to be perfect. We are going to be perfect. There'll be no self-doubt, no fear. I've never seen it happen.

01:20:15:18 - 01:20:40:11
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Everyone I know who has really found their purpose and are making it a reality. They have their moments where they're struggling, but they start to be outweighed by the moments of I feel clear, I feel calm, I feel at peace, and I feel drawn to do this thing. It doesn't mean the other moments don't happen because we are all human.

01:20:40:14 - 01:21:09:02
Daniel Franco
So you mentioned that you work with a lot of businesses and you just said transformation. So you say the individual is somewhat easier. Maybe, maybe that's a statement that I should retract, but is somewhat easier than organizational transformation. Yeah, right. So my new world, your mind is a battlefield. The organizational transformation and change is really difficult. Yes. And there are a lot of people within organizations who are looking to transform and change.

01:21:09:09 - 01:21:27:14
Daniel Franco
However, I've met with roadblocks. Yeah, often being other human beings. What if I was to put a boiling point of you right now and you need to throw in some ingredients to say this? Absolutely. Now, your transformation, what do you think those ingredients would be.

01:21:27:21 - 01:21:28:27
Dr.  Gemma Munro
As an organization.

01:21:28:27 - 01:21:32:24
Daniel Franco
As an organization that's needing to transform?

01:21:32:26 - 01:21:55:06
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I think I would actually say the biggest thing that gets in the way is and this is why I do I do, is individuals not having the skills to navigate change, to see change as an opportunity, not as a threat. And I think a lot of the organizations get it wrong because they assume that everyone is going to be on the journey because the CEO, for instance, is like, this is great.

01:21:55:06 - 01:22:22:15
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I feel fantastic about this. They don't realize that actually, just by announcing a change, people inside are going to go, my gosh, what does this mean for me? Right? And they'll shut down and some of them will sabotage. So the biggest thing is the biggest the first ingredient you can put in the pot that then allows other ingredients to have an effect is to give individuals the skills in managing and leading themselves through change, and particularly for leaders.

01:22:22:17 - 01:22:48:26
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I gave a keynote yesterday on Leading through change, but I was very clear that it was actually for the leaders of this incredible not for profit in Perth. It was about helping them to manage themselves through change because the brain is an open limbic system and if you are not as a leader, managing yourself through change, if you even if you're saying the right things, doing the right things, if your mood, if your emotions, if your energy is like, my gosh, your people pick up on that.

01:22:48:28 - 01:22:58:19
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Absolutely. So that I get very passionate about this, you cannot manage organizational change well if you don't equip individuals to manage it well within themselves.

01:22:58:19 - 01:23:23:29
Daniel Franco
With that, I mean, the statistics at their most changes fell off the back of poor leadership. Right. And and, you know, we run a program here. We you know, we're on a mission to reframe the way change is done. Right. So we work with businesses both in how to execute on that change and help them. You know, manage and that transformation, set that project up for success or whatever it might be program and then execute upon that.

01:23:24:01 - 01:23:50:14
Daniel Franco
But, but, but core to that or the way in which we go about it is the other offering, which is we've kind of got a program called Reframing Change, which is how do we think about change? Because there are three levels of change and people who are doing working on change within an organization, like you said, there's the leaders of change, the drivers of change, and where a lot of our research is going in is how do we help people make sense of that change?

01:23:50:16 - 01:24:09:18
Daniel Franco
Because, you know, you can have all the awareness and desire in the world to want to change and, do something different. But unless we can get our people as leaders, unless we can get them to make sense of change, we're not going to achieve anything. Right. But then on the next rung down, there's the enablers of changes, the people who are doing it.

01:24:09:23 - 01:24:29:01
Daniel Franco
They have a different thought process again. So it's about equipping them like you saying it's equipping them with the right tools and processes and and helping themselves and others make sense of it. And then we've got the rest of the organization as the contributors of change. They're still going to be part of it. Yeah. We don't want them to be receivers and just be passive in it.

01:24:29:02 - 01:24:35:29
Daniel Franco
We want them to contribute so that the whole organization is seeing the successful change and transformation as it moves forward.

01:24:35:29 - 01:25:01:11
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yeah, and I think the thing that I I'm particularly strong on because I completely agree in the way you're doing it is correct. We need to help people understand that they will almost always naturally sabotage themselves. So it's it's like one foot on the accelerator, one on the brake when it comes to change, and you're giving them the tools to realize why they're doing that and then to move past it.

01:25:01:12 - 01:25:03:03
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Yeah, that's right. Necessary.

01:25:03:08 - 01:25:26:22
Daniel Franco
Yeah. There's a lot of neuroscience that goes into that in your. That's absolutely right. Yeah. Yeah. Where, what are we. We're probably about an hour and a half. Yeah. And the point is when you go away as well. So it's this for that I want to cut. So is there any last we we'll wrap up and it's been an amazing conversation.

01:25:26:22 - 01:25:33:16
Daniel Franco
Is there any last comments that you want to make and happy for you to give you a little plug for your What comes Next program?

01:25:33:16 - 01:25:59:22
Dr.  Gemma Munro
That's very kind. I would just say that if if there are people listening who have that sense of even if it's a quiet sense of there's something out there that I'm meant to be doing and I know I don't know what, but I know it's different to what I'm doing now, or there are people out there who have actually got an inkling of what it is they want to do, but they're too scared to and make it a reality.

01:25:59:24 - 01:26:15:26
Dr.  Gemma Munro
I think what comes next, I know the data shows it, that it helps people with those two things. So we start May 3rd if people want to go to Dr. Jemma Munro Ecom, they can find the information there. And yeah, I'd love to. Your listeners, I'm sure, must be amazing. So I would love to have.

01:26:15:29 - 01:26:21:01
Daniel Franco
Are they are and so are you. So thank you very much for your time today.

01:26:21:05 - 01:26:23:25
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Thank you enjoyed the chat.

01:26:23:28 - 01:26:47:22
Daniel Franco
But thank you for all that you're doing because I mean, you're talking about purpose and helping people realize their purpose. I mean, you must be living your dream and being able to do that as well. Obviously, giving is part of it helps form purpose in so many ways. So thank you for all that you're doing, because what you might do in this course might uncover the next thing that changes.

01:26:47:24 - 01:26:58:25
Daniel Franco
So really, on behalf of everyone, appreciate what you're doing. Thank you, Daniel. No worries. Thanks, everyone. We'll catch you next time. Yeah.

01:26:58:27 - 01:27:02:25
Dr.  Gemma Munro
Sorry about the. Yeah, at the end. Wow. That was really.

01:27:02:28 - 01:27:21:20
Daniel Franco
Does anything of interest to you and find out more about us at Synergy IQ Dotcom. Darius, I am going to ask though if you did like the podcast, you would absolutely mean the world to me if you can subscribe right and review and if didn't like it, that's alright too. There's no need to do anything. Thank you guys.

01:27:21:20 - 01:27:22:06
Daniel Franco
All the best.