#56 - Adrian Tembel, Chief Executive Partner of Thomson Geer on: The Journey to Building one of the Largest Law Firms in Australia

Adrian Tembel is a prominent South Australian lawyer and businessman and is an economics and honours law graduate of the University of Adelaide. He began practising corporate and technology law at Thomson Geer in 1993, became a Partner of Thomson Geer in 1997, and went on to become Chief Executive Partner in 2009 and held the position ever since. 

When operating as a full-time lawyer Adrian specialized in the Corporate and Technology space and had the opportunity to serve on some amazing pieces of work, one name was with one of the greatest drivers in Formula One, Ayton Senna's Merchandising team. 

Adrian’s focus is now on leading Thomson Geer, whereas Chief Executive Partner, he has grown the Adelaide headquartered Thomson Geer to a major Australian Law firm with annual revenue close to $200m.  

At the time of the podcast, Thomson Geer is ranked 10th largest law firm by partner number, 22nd in South Australia's top private companies and rose 32 places in the 2019/2020 Australia's top 500 private companies ranking, and now has offices all across Australia in Adelaide, Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth. 

Adrian is an Adviser to the Premier of South Australia, Steven Marshall, and in 2018, Adrian was appointed as a Commissioner of the South Australian Productivity Commission and went on to become Chair of this commission in July 2021, Adrian,  and further to this he also has time to serve as a Director of the Menzies Research Centre. 

In this episode,  Adrian and I touch on his journey from being a full-time lawyer to becoming the Chief Executive Partner at Thomson Geer, and as a very proud South Australian, he provides his insights into how we can build and make South Australia better by focusing on building a world-class Research and Development platform. 

 I loved the modesty coming from Adrian in this podcast, where he describes himself as an 'insecure' and 'not very talented' person, but was able to share with us that through hard work and persistence, it is possible to achieve really great things.  

We also deep-dived into his thoughts around: 

His journey and how he ended up in the legal world 

• How the impending liquidation of the company led him to become the Chief Executive Partner 
• The strategy and the mindset that turned the around companies financial position 
• His learnings and experience through this process  
• His thoughts on the role CEO's play in the company culture 
• How he manages his time. 
• His role as an adviser to Premier Steven Marshall 
• And provides some amazing advice for up and coming CEO's 

Where to find Adrian Tembel:

• Thomson Geer

Join the conversation on Synergy IQ LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram (@synergyiq) and please support other leaders by liking, subscribing and sharing this podcast. 

Access SynergyIQ Website to get to know more about us. 

Say hello to our host Daniel Franco on LinkedIn.

Books  and podcasts mentioned on this episode:

Robert Menzies - The Art of Politics - By: Troy Bramston

Transcript

Synergy IQ: 0:01

Welcome to Creating synergy where we explore what it takes to transform. We are powered by Synergy IQ. Our mission is to help leaders create world class businesses where people are safe, valued, inspired and fulfilled. We can only do this with our amazing community. So thank you for listening.

Daniel Franco: 0:20

I then synergises and welcome back to another episode of The creating synergy podcast. My name is Daniel Franco and today we have a man on the show who is touted as one of the most network human beings in South Australia. Mr. Adrian symbol, the chief executive partner of one of the largest law firms in Australia, Thompson gear. Adrian is a prominent South Australian lawyer and businessman as an economics and honors law graduate of the University of Adelaide. He began practicing corporate and technology Laura Thompson gear in 1993, and partner of Thomson gear in 1997, and went on to become the chief executive partner in 2009 and held the position ever since. When operating as a full time lawyer, Adrienne specialized in the corporate and technology space and had the opportunity to serve on some of the most amazing pieces of work. One namely was with one of the greatest drivers of Formula One and center and his merchandising team. Adrian's focus is now on leading Thompson gear where as chief executive partner he has grown the Adelaide headquartered Thompson gear to a major Australian law firm with the annual revenue of close to $200 million. At the time of this podcast, Thompson gear is ranked 10th largest law firm by partner 22nd in South Australia's top private companies and rows 32 places in 2019 2020 in Australia's top 500 private company rankings and has now got offices all around Australia in Adelaide, Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and Perth. Adrian is an advisor to the premier of South Australia Stephen Marshall and in 2018, he was appointed as Commissioner of the South Australian Productivity Commission, and went on to become chair of this commission in July 2021. Further to this, he has the time to be able to serve as director of the Menzies Research Center as well. In this episode, Adrian and I touched on his journey from being a full time lawyer to becoming the chief executive partner of Thompson gear. And as a very proud South Australian, he provides his insights into how we can build and make South Australia better by focusing on building a world class research and development platform. I love the modesty coming from Adrian in this episode, where he describes himself as insecure and not very talented person. But he was able to share with us that through hard work and persistence, it is possible to really achieve great things. We also deep dived into his thoughts around his journey and how he ended up in the legal world. How the impending liquidation of the company led him to become the chief executive partner, the strategy and mindset that turned around the company's financial position, his learnings and experiences through the process. He's thoughts on the role CEOs play in the company's culture, how he manages his time, his role as an advisor to Stephen Marshall. And he provides some amazing advice for up and coming CEOs. I know you're absolutely going to love this chat. And if you'd like to learn more about some of the other amazing speakers and leaders that we've had on the creating synergy podcast, then be sure to jump on our website at Synergy iq.com.au. Or check us out at Spotify, or Apple podcasts or any of your podcast outlets. So welcome back to the creating synergy podcast. My name is Daniel Franco, your host and today we have a very great man by the name of Adrian timbul. Welcome to the show, Adrian. Oh,

Adrian Tembel: 3:56

pleasure to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

Daniel Franco: 3:58

So I drew and I'm going to start off with if you google your name, you google you start typing in Adrian tambling. Google, and it has offers a few suggestions right, it says Adrian temple, and some of the suggestions are Adrian timbul house, Adrian Tembo net worth, Adrian, Adrian timber wife, and Adrian timbul sheep farm. Can you can you explain why people want to know about your sheep farm?

Adrian Tembel: 4:27

Well, I can't explain. I've only ever been told about that once before it was from my wife, because she got quite upset when she saw Adrienne timbul wife again she pressed in but it wasn't a photograph of her professional. There's a few of them with other women. professional women of taking a photo which she was a bit upset about

Daniel Franco: 4:51

is quite weird because I did click on

Adrian Tembel: 4:55

because everyone's benchmarking everyone. Women So, but look, I don't know why people take an interest in those things. But but I guess they do. I think they're a function of people clicking and searching, aren't they?

Daniel Franco: 5:09

Yeah, yeah. It's what searched most. So it was under my belief. So yeah, people searching your wife is I learned

Adrian Tembel: 5:17

an interesting lesson in Media Management. Not that the media is interested in me. But Polly bought a home that was quite prominent a few years ago. Polly's my wife. Yeah. And we were very, very keen to keep it out of the newspapers, for obvious reasons, either

Daniel Franco: 5:33

one of Gilberton. Yes.

Adrian Tembel: 5:36

What happened was that we made a big mistake, we actually retained a public relations firm to lobby the advertiser, we knew they wanted to talk about it. Yeah. And we worked really hard on trying to convince the advertiser that it wasn't newsworthy, and we want to protect the privacy of our family. Yeah. And of course, by working hard to keep it private, I think they went in the opposite direction. Yeah. And wanted to know more. So it was a little bit of a lesson, it would have been publicized anyway. But we learned a lesson. The more you try to keep things out of the spotlight, the more people want to put it in.

Daniel Franco: 6:11

It was like when you say to a kid, don't touch that. And the first thing they do. So yeah, no, it's a lovely home. If anyone wants to search it. But anyway, we won't go there. So. So tell us a little bit more. Why are people searching Adrian? And tell us a little bit about your journey? Like where did you I don't

Adrian Tembel: 6:36

know if they're searching? I guess if I put your name in Google, which I have. There'd be a lot more hits? Well, no answers. And there is for me,

Daniel Franco: 6:47

well, purely by our marketing, not by anyone else. I think everyone else is writing articles on yourself. There is a famous Daniel Franco in in America actually. Is there. Yeah. What was he famous? Fashion Designer? Yeah, yeah.

Adrian Tembel: 7:03

So Is he handsome?

Daniel Franco: 7:04

I believe. So I think he was on that project runway. Right? So anyone with that name? Typically.

Adrian Tembel: 7:11

We're here to talk about me. My name is actually very unique, my surname. And as far as I know, still, it's the only temple in Australia. And I've always taken a bit of an interest in its background. It's quite a confusing background. But if you put my name in, it'll be the only one. So I don't have famous people like yours.

Daniel Franco: 7:33

Well, well, there you go. So you don't have an A this might be strategically you don't have a LinkedIn profile.

Adrian Tembel: 7:41

I am. I mean, this goes back to the early question. I'm such an insecure, low confidence person that the idea of doing any social media is way beyond me. I see it as narcissistic and an egotistical and of course, it's not because the whole world and so pretty much except for me, but luckily, I'm old enough to get away with it. So so I'll tell not only because I think, why would anyone want to know anything about well,

Daniel Franco: 8:06

you type in Adrian timbul, on LinkedIn, and there is no other that No, Adrian comes up. So it is a very unique name just going

Adrian Tembel: 8:13

it's a funny name. It's, I've researched it. So my parents are, I guess they're, whether you call them Soviet refugees, or post war Soviet displaced persons, there's a bit of a debate about whether you qualify as a refugee or a displaced person, but they, their families were torn up by the Second World War, and they found themselves down here in Australia. So I grew up as a child of post war Soviet refugees. And so you take a bit of an interest in your background, but then sometimes you don't, because you're trying hard to integrate in and become a young Australian. So so it's only been, as I've gotten older that I've taken an interest in my background, but the the name is actually quite a common name in Israel, to describe a historical hat that was used during the development of Israel as a nation. So my name is got all sorts of connectivity and background.

Daniel Franco: 9:08

Yeah. Brilliant. So you are CEO of Thomson. Reuters. Yes. Tell us about your journey to there. So you know, parents, refugees, as a child trying to fit in

Adrian Tembel: 9:22

trying to fit in outsider growing up in a working class neighborhood in the northwest of Adelaide in the 1970s you know, full of manufacturing jobs, but manufacturing jobs that are disappearing. So in that neighborhood, the majority of the kids had dads who were working in the motor vehicle industry or making cars in Woodville making towels or producing towels and and bed sheeting and ACTA, which is another factory around the corner. Televisions at Philips and white goods just a little bit further up into Pennington, so I grew up in Seaton and and massive manufacturing neighbor. And you know, looking back doesn't seem that long ago, but may be 20,000 manufacturing jobs in that area. And now there's none. And all of the decline began when I was a boy, because essentially, tariffs were being withdrawn first by the Whitlam government and then by the hawk. And that was good for the Australian consumer. Because suddenly with tariffs being taken out, cars were cheaper, towels were cheaper televisions were cheaper. But it meant that all those jobs just disappeared. And so it was, it was a very interesting time to grow up because proudly working class, but little by little as I made it through setting North primary and then setting high, one by one, you know, our dads were losing their jobs. And that had a big impact on the morale and the confidence of that era. Interestingly, though, at the same time on the positive, women were starting to come into the workforce. So as our dads were losing our jobs, their jobs, our moms were stepping in to work, including my mom. And so you know, it was the beginning of a lot of change.

Daniel Franco: 11:09

So you're Satan. Hi, boy, yes, go through the Seton high and then into university. What what what sort of struck your fancy with the legal world

Adrian Tembel: 11:20

is that typical case of your, you want to make some progress in life, but you're not that talented. So you're not you're not going to be a

Daniel Franco: 11:31

rock star? Or I can say I'm sitting in the same boat and

Adrian Tembel: 11:35

extraordinary. Well, most of us are, yeah. So what do you try and do? Well, you want to become a little middle class, so you can give your children a little more? And what do you do you choose a profession, you know, a doctor or lawyer and to the lawyer thing made sense. So I spied from quite a young age to be a lawyer. And so I went to law school and also studied economics. And so a very conventional safe pathway to middle class Australia.

Daniel Franco: 12:03

Beautiful. So was there anything about the legal profession that sort of drew you in? Or was it was it really just to set yourself up?

Adrian Tembel: 12:12

Just ignorant perception as a youngster? My dad was a carpet layer. And my mum then did some secretarial work when when she entered the workforce, but basically, the perception that you could earn a reasonable income, and you might be even respected at the same time. Yeah. Which would be nice. Yeah,

Daniel Franco: 12:33

absolutely. So your, your career is one that I want to sort of unpack a little bit. So let's talk about your first few years, and coming out of university into straight into Thompson gear. Yes. To the point now, where you're an advisor to Steven Marshall, can we talk in that in that space taught us about your growth and your learning, learning in that in that time? No.

Adrian Tembel: 12:58

My career is a classic example of somebody who has significant weaknesses and limitations. But who takes the view that if you just stick to a particular pathway, and build some expertise, and specialist skills, and you see it through with hard work, that you can make progress, and that you can just keep building and evolving and come out at the end, in a in a leadership position, doing interesting things, and living a life like I do, which is, you know, every morning, you get up and you're excited, and you're looking forward to seeing whether you can advance a little further. So it's a great example of someone with limited talent, but just who stays very focused and stays quite disciplined and sees it through. And my early years were a bit of a grind, I must admit, but I was determined to just build some basic skills and relationships, but then take things to where we are today.

Daniel Franco: 13:57

So for someone who's trying to grow their career, when you talk about being focused and determined, can you talk specifically about what that was for you?

Adrian Tembel: 14:04

Well, it's such a very dull person. Anyone listening is already falling asleep, but

Daniel Franco: 14:11

your beautiful dulcet tones,

Adrian Tembel: 14:13

thank you even realize that she No, no, look, for me. It's about just, I'm a routine person. Yeah. So be being reliable, and building a reputation for being reliable and and showing a deep interest in what you're doing and demonstrating some enthusiasm. You put those two things together. And if you're in Australia, you're well on the way to going somewhere. So So for me, it was about sticking to the plan. And, you know, we all have bad days, but having a view that on a bad day. If I just persevere Of course, I'll recover and get into a good day soon. So pretty basic principle. Yeah,

Daniel Franco: 15:00

what did you specialize in?

Adrian Tembel: 15:01

Well, I were and this was a very lucky break. Early in the early years, I came through just post that recession in the early 90s. As a graduate, high unemployment very difficult to find professional jobs, picked up a job in this firm, that I was very pleased to get, I was delighted to get into one of the big commercial firms here in Adelaide, this firm was struggling at the time, it had been a wonderful firm in the 80s. And then it got really smashed with a bit of bad luck and a few other things in the late 80s. And so when I joined, it was coming off a very difficult period and wasn't recruiting much I pick up this job. And work is quiet, and there isn't much around. But very luckily, I got introduced to a client that was doing some great things in the Grand Prix industry. And I started to do some really interesting work in that space. And it was colorful and exciting. So there I was, I was dealing with contracts and licenses and doing deals on behalf of this merchandising client. You know, within centers management group, Alain Prost, the Williams team, called Heart Schumacher, all those big names of the 90s. And doing that from Adelaide, gave me a degree of confidence and profile, and it allowed me to go on and win some clients.

Daniel Franco: 16:20

How did you go about the acquisition of those clients? Like, was it really relationship based was a cold call, like, what was your methodology into being introduced to these people, and then all of a sudden building that relay,

Adrian Tembel: 16:31

I was never a great marketer. But I was extremely devoted to the interests of every client that I was retained to represent. And I think a lot of them sense that. And they felt that I was so devoted, and so fixated with helping them create value and be successful, that they thought, you know, he might not be a brilliant lawyer, not a brilliant lawyer at all. Because I wouldn't be in business. I wouldn't be running the firm now, being a great lawyer. But I think they thought that I was stretching for them. Yeah. And interestingly, on that I was I appealed to a really entrepreneurial class of clients, usually men who really wanted to get somewhere and they enjoyed having somebody younger, who was equally focused. I didn't appeal to public sector clients, they found me a little too high energy and not necessarily as conservative as quite rightly, a public sector organization is. So I did a lot of work in the 90s. For what was then the DST. Oh, I think it's called DST now and it's the big research laboratories in the north. Yeah, big technology producer, very prestigious client. I did quite well there. But they my style didn't quite suit. They're very conservative style.

Daniel Franco: 17:47

Yeah. What was some of the most exciting projects that you worked?

Adrian Tembel: 17:51

Well, well, that Grand Prix work was very exciting, because it you know, it, you did the work, you secured these rights, the big breakthrough deal, it's a great story. It was actually a Adelaide based client that was built around the Adelaide Grand Prix, to really entrepreneurial men, one of whom I still friendly with one of whom, sadly passed away, far too young.

Daniel Franco: 18:14

But the kidnapping, you mentioned your name.

Adrian Tembel: 18:17

Yeah. Alan Simon. And one of the great thing about Alan, well, I'm delighted about was he introduced me to his son, Josh, and he's now a partner here. And one of my colleagues. He was a young Pembroke boy at the time and had full of talent. And he's a great lawyer here. So lovely connections. I was called David it. Yeah, it was quite an entrepreneurial person, and great sales skills. But But what what they managed to do in the 90s is persuade it and centers management team, to award them a little Adelaide company, incentives exclusive, worldwide rights to merchandise, his name, commercializes name, huge breakthrough deal. And they put in enormous upfront, they really bet the farm. They put in enormous upfront payments to win those rights. So we negotiate was a huge breakthrough. We get the deal. I think img in London was representing it and center. So I was dealing with the elite of entertainment lawyers in London, we get the deal. We sign up all the payments, big upfront payments at the farm. And within about a week, he does trenching. And I still remember Alan calling me on it. It was it was a Sunday, I think because it was a race, wasn't it? So Ellen brings me on the Monday morning and in a huge flat because what do our contracts do in the event of death? And he is bet the farm on this deal. And if the deal now terminates, is got major problems or if it and sin is named doesn't commercialize, much value will be he was deeply upset about the passing that he had to think about.

Daniel Franco: 19:52

Absolutely right. And what mourn the death then what's next?

Adrian Tembel: 19:55

Yeah, and I was petrified that I'd screwed up the contract. It turns out that our rights are secure, and just finished that story. All of those big upfront payments were covered by merchandising sales in Japan within about three months. Yeah. And those payments were made amortized though they were there to underwrite a contract for the next maybe five or so years. I can't recall precisely. They made all their money back in a few months. And then it was a huge success, because in sender's name just became even even more famous. Yeah. So that was a fun story when I was, you know, maybe a two year lawyer. Yeah. And that was a bit of a breakthrough moment on dealing with not just the excitement of having put together a deal that withstood an external shock.

Daniel Franco: 20:41

says a bit in that. You must pick the stock at the right time didn't Yeah, it will I do and the client, the client did, yeah, it's obviously unfortunate. And sin is an absolute legend. But yeah, I mean, from a talk about value of name and products, it goes up when, when someone does pass away,

Adrian Tembel: 20:57

I think it's a real example of men and women who stretch and take risk, and lay it on the line. And they know that good things might happen. But there'll be twists and turns that might go their way with it, whether buying a development side of real estate, or get buying intellectual property in like in that case, or backing a research project. And that's, that's what I loved. In my legal years, I was working with men and women who made big bets in a creative way, and yet, never knew how it was going to play out. That's terribly exciting, terribly as a young lawyer in Adelaide, terribly exciting.

Daniel Franco: 21:33

It's, there's something about living with the ambiguity, though, isn't it? I think high risk, high reward? Is that the old? Is that kind of where you're playing with? Well,

Adrian Tembel: 21:40

I just think it's more you just don't know what's gonna happen today. And how good is that? Yeah. Because if you wake up every morning, you know what lies ahead, it gets down. And again, being a young lawyer in that space, the call would come through at any time, the client says, hey, guess what I've just secured. I've got a deal. In this case, I was talking about, you know, we've just signed Prost, we've got a month to get the contractor go to work. And that was a huge amount of fun. And then I went into the biotech sector, the Liberal government in the 90s really did great things. They created bio innovation essay. They hired a guy called Juergen mcneilus, who was a really entrepreneurial energy person. And he built the local biotech scene strongly. And off the back of my intellectual property skills. I picked up some mandates in that space. And again, worked with a number of companies who were pursuing drug development, or medical device development, high risk projects, but projects that are terribly exciting, because if they work, you solve a big health problem. That's global. Yeah. And shareholders make some money along the way, as well. So that's how I finished off the 90s working off in that space.

Daniel Franco: 22:51

So you moved into the big leagues quite quickly, though. Dinya. For you saying year to a year to lawyer.

Adrian Tembel: 22:56

That's a lucky break. Yeah. And then the biotech space was a lucky break, because I was still in my 20s. But there weren't many lawyers locally, who had those skills. And I tried it off. It's a stepping stone, the Grand Prix were caught the eye of the DST, oh, even that was a different type of intellectual property. It was quite globally interesting. And then doing technology worked at the DST o was very prestigious. And then the local biotech community picked up on that and thought, well, it's cutting edge technology commercialization work. So he's competent, and that gave me a run into companies. So they've disappeared. But there was a company that's very prominent at the time called Grow pep listed. Big market cap taken over by the Danish, but they were doing cutting edge commercialization work. And they retained me to work on those global projects with them. So that gave me a run into other things as well.

Daniel Franco: 23:49

You say a lucky break, but you have to put yourself into the situation or the position to be able to receive that break. Yeah. What did you do?

Adrian Tembel: 23:58

Do you know, I've told this, of course, I do a lot of training with young lawyers in my firm. Do you know that I can trace back all of the client base that I built, it became quite substantial in the 2000s back to just one or two people. And one person introduced me to that person. Yeah. And then that then I did some good work for that person. And so I can trace it back. Pretty much to one or two people. So that is luck. Because one of them was just a friend of my brothers. And you know, Frank Felker. And then he kicked me into he introduced me to Simon Hackett. Yeah, okay. And Simon Hackett became one of the great tech entrepreneurs in the city. Absolutely. And Simon retain internal internal known Yeah, and became a very wealthy man, and I backed, he backed me, and I rode that wave as well. So look, Daniel, it's all about people. Yeah. Everything is about Pete.

Daniel Franco: 24:55

I think that's where I wanted to get to. Yes. So it's a relationship game, isn't it?

Adrian Tembel: 25:00

But then you've got to make sure, once you had the luck of meeting the right people, that you add value to them, and not trade off a friendship, I think that's awful when in business, people trade off friendships, but I think it's wonderful when you get on well, and you've got that mutual commercial respect. And you can add value and what a wonderful combo of working with people you like, and helping them achieve their goals. So that that's a wonderful part of being a commercial lawyer.

Daniel Franco: 25:28

So it's touching, keep your wits about you, you say time and time again stories of, of young really, sort of excellent lawyers or entrepreneurs, or whoever it might be in their career. If you look at sporting the football as they they become young, quite quite popular, quite earning some good coin, and they go down the wrong path, you get involved with some some of the wrong people. How did you keep your wits about you?

Adrian Tembel: 25:58

Well, I think I'm a bit like you. I think you and I've spoken about this, I think one of the and maybe I'm just boring, but I want to peek as late as possible in my life is possible. So I want to be at my best when I'm turning 100. Yeah, so that everything in my life is about advancement, because the fear of reaching your peak, and still having all of the energy and health to continue. But the best days are behind you that would really upset and frightened me. And so, you know, like you I'm just wanting to progress steadily. Yeah. And play a long game. Yeah. So in answer to your question, is it about that, you know, sporting friends who have had these wonderful years at the Olympics, and then they wouldn't regret it. But maybe everything after that is a letdown? Is that is that one of the risks of being a great athlete, you'd never say no to it. But I look at that and say, you know, I wish they were able to push on and continue to advance and not always look back their Olympic years and say, you know, that was the best moment.

Daniel Franco: 27:06

Yeah, the tortoise and the hare, the slowest

Adrian Tembel: 27:09

tortoise in here. But But I think always wanting to advance no matter what you've done today. I mean, I haven't achieved anything interesting. But I'd still hope to achieve something better in the future.

Daniel Franco: 27:20

Is that come down to your values, like your own personal values and growth learning experience?

Adrian Tembel: 27:26

I don't I just think it's a product of I couldn't make the Olympics. Yeah. I was a very clean athlete. But I certainly wasn't good enough to go to that level. And so I didn't have a choice. Did

Daniel Franco: 27:38

you play baseball?

Adrian Tembel: 27:39

I was I was a 400 meter runner or a 400? Yes. And I you know, when a few state titles and represented the state national events as a student on a number of occasions, but what wasn't the standard, obviously, to represent the country, which is a huge disappointment for me here.

Daniel Franco: 27:55

And now you're into cycling.

Adrian Tembel: 27:57

I took up cycling. Yeah. And I've got a very keen to desire every Saturday morning to get up early and write in the beautiful Adelaide Hills and stay fit and stimulated. And I've been lucky to have a good group of friends over the years that I cycle with, and continue to, and we've got a long lunch plan this afternoon. Yes, at a beautiful Adelaide restaurant. So we drink wine more now than cycle but but cycling in Adelaide is one of the great dividends of living in this town. Yeah, it is beautiful. It just we're looking at the hills here Absolutely. As as we sit here, and they're magnificent. Magnificent,

Daniel Franco: 28:32

hard to argue. What did you do in your years to become so good, they couldn't ignore you for the CEO role?

Adrian Tembel: 28:40

What I I think I've got a good story for you. And let's let's do it. Because when I was, I think 30, which isn't young anymore. I think young men and women can be very successful in business at a young age, particularly in tech. But in the conservative legal industry at 30. I was adamant that I was ready to lead this firm, and that there was a huge amount of reform that was required. And the leadership wasn't up to it. And I say that language in that blunt way, because clearly, I might have been enthusiastic, but I lacked any degree of self awareness, and diplomacy. And so I made a hard run. And for a little moment, I was given some leadership, access. And then I basically alienated everyone. And by 32 hours using a political engine on the back bench as a young partner here, the firm was much smaller, less successful then but but still, it was it was quite large. And I was on the back bench and viewed as divisive at 32 but with very strong views about what the firm needed to do to be successful. And then, a few years later, a number of things happen in the firm's Traveling well, and there's a GFC and 39. Having continued to be a partner in the firm and enjoying my legal work, the guys actually came to me and said, Actually, will you lead the firm? Because we've got deep problems. And we think that your enthusiasm and your priorities about what we need to do suit the firm's requirements and when you do it. So interestingly, it required the failure. And the lesson of needing to be a little more diplomatic and sensitive to lead people, before people thought I was ready. And and and that's when I became the head of this firm. That's 12 years ago.

Daniel Franco: 30:41

Yeah, well done. So what was it about the failure that the board came to you and said, Adrian, we believe you can get us out? Well,

Adrian Tembel: 30:50

I had always had very strong views about the need for this firm to be absolutely fixated with being a strongly competitive organization. And therefore, to build an organization that was very focused on accountability, transparency, autonomy, but accountability, and then these legal partnerships. There's a huge variation in start, and I believe that needed to be a harder, competitive environment that held people to account. And when I was young, there wasn't a big appetite for that, when we're in the middle of a recession, and quite frankly, the firm was on the verge of bankruptcy. People were prepared to say, well, we have to take our medicine, if we're going to turn this thing around, we're gonna have to be a different organization. And that annoying guy, Adrian, Tim, who used to give us a big lecture about that this might happen one day, if we didn't pull their socks up. It's happened. Yeah. How would you like to lead? And that's how it came about.

Daniel Franco: 31:53

So something good now I'm just going to rattle off a couple of stats, one of the top Tim firms in the country by revenue, the seventh largest firm in Australia by headcount, the 10th largest firm by partner number, the 22nd in South Australia. So number 22, sir, in South Australia, top private companies, and 358 in Australia's top 500 private companies. What was it when you started

Adrian Tembel: 32:21

off? Well, the firm's about five times larger today than it was when I began. And essentially, we were add that we put our toe into Sydney, with very limited success. And so we were essentially Adelaide firm with a little satellite in Sydney. And now we're a true national institution. Now, for anyone that is listening apart from my mother, my mum, I will tell my mom about this, and she'll listen. But no one else would probably listen to this. So hopefully, one other lawyer

Daniel Franco: 32:48

might got a bit of a following.

Adrian Tembel: 32:50

When they see my name, they're gonna say, oh, let's go to next. But look, everything you've quoted doesn't mean much in the biggest scheme of things, the biggest scheme of things not much, but in the legal industry. We truly have become a a national legal institution, from Adelaide, and that's really rare because every firm around us, including all the larger firms, are all headquartered out of Sydney and Melbourne, where the largest law firm in the country that isn't headquartered in Sydney, Melbourne, meaning Perth, Brisbane, Adelaide, have never produced a larger law firm than that. So is that a good thing or a bad thing? I don't know. But producing a professional service firm of that scale out of a second tier Australian city hasn't been done in the legal sector before. So you know, we're proud of that. Only people in the legal sector would be interested in that step. It's a real legal comment, but for the one lawyer listening that that one was for you.

Daniel Franco: 33:50

That's brilliant. So I'm really interested in your methodologies of attacking, you say you're at the point of bankruptcy, you're five times larger now, yes, was nationalized with an nationalized. So I really just want to deep dive into what was your strategies? What were your methodologies? What processes did you introduce? You know, what mindset did you have? What vision Did you set the company in that space?

Adrian Tembel: 34:15

Well, in the first few years, it was turn around, and it was survival. And because we tipped ourselves into Sydney, we couldn't turn back that would have been absolute, the end of the world for us. So we had to persevere and we had to somehow pursue a national strategy. Even though we are economics, we're very, very uncompetitive. So one of the best things I ever did, I think, was as a condition of taking over the leadership. I said to the partners that they would all have to commit for two years to not take a call from a recruiter or to not resign, so So if I was gonna step in, everyone had to stick together. And everyone agreed to do that. And at least we had the core team held together to try N You know, hold it together, rebuild the economics at least put ourselves in a position where we could try and grow. And again, we talked about luck, we had a little luck early on in my turnaround. There was a major piece of litigation that we won. And then there was a major client that became very active. And there was just a bit of a revenue kicker, in addition to all the cost reform that I had to implement, and the two things came together, and we just got some breathing space for a year. And then we began to build.

Daniel Franco: 35:32

Did you? So let's talk more again, the strategy then. Okay, so you've rebuilt Now we're talking? I'm looking five years ahead. Yeah. What did you put in? Look,

Adrian Tembel: 35:44

the big thing that I did was a running a law firm in Adelaide meant that I spent most of the working week really for the last up until COVID of last year, not in Adelaide. So so it's been, on average three nights a week, first in Sydney and Melbourne. Then we moved to Brisbane, and then, of course, Perth, and being in those cities during the week. And staying close to, of course, the team you have and customers. But most importantly for us, we've grown by acquisition. So for me, it's been a persuasive exercise of winning talent, poaching talent from rivals, acquiring firms, a combination of mergers as well, and doing that outside of my comfort zone here on good street in Adelaide, and being on Khan street on Macquarie Street, waterfront place on the river there in Brisbane, and working hard in foreign markets to persuade people that our vision and our style would have its place in the national first division. And we've managed to do that over time. And the big breakthrough for me was when I persuaded half of the there's a large global office, a firm called DLA Piper, very prominent global law firm, but I managed to persuade half of their Brisbane office 10 partners and about 30 other lawyers to leave, and to set up our Brisbane office that was in 2008. And that was a big breakthrough deal that put us back on the radar as not just being a firm that was trying to survive. But that was on the front foot. Yeah. And May be it's a credible organization from there. We executed a further quite significant merger with was a prominent Melbourne firm that lost its way on its national electrical Herbet gear and worked very hard on that for two years and persuaded those guys to come on board. And then from there from 214. We executed really two more major acquisitions, but a lot of lateral poaching of lawyers that were prominent in more prestigious firms, but we managed to persuade they could have better careers with us. So it's been a people journey. And it's been about persuading talent, that they should be less. And the analogy I use is you know, I'm like, you know one of those football managers that poaches and does good draft picks. You know, there's famous English soccer managers that that really focus on building the team. And that's what that's what we've done.

Daniel Franco: 38:21

There's a few there's a few things in that. One thing when you were speaking early on is about you. You were traveling quite a bit. Yes, interstate a fair bit. You have a young family. How did you manage the family and the travel and, and that continuous drive to be away from family to grow business?

Adrian Tembel: 38:44

Not enough, nothing beats and I say this to everyone that ever told me nothing beats having a strong sense of purpose. And and if anyone in business hasn't done one yet, I strongly recommend it. Try a turnaround. There's nothing more fun than trying to turn something around because you just get up and it's you know, like you're at war. And so in those first two years, when my first week in the leadership job, I met our bankers representative. I hadn't met him before that I was taken to lunch with him. And as I walked in, he stood up and said, Adrian, this is the first week in the job. That leader of the Sherm, and he said, Adrian, don't worry, we're not going to foreclose. Because we were in breach of all our covenants, and we had high levels of debt. So So from there on, you know, the next 18 months was survival. Yeah, and turning it around. And that's a huge amount of fun. And I say to everyone, if you can get through it, then you can get through anything.

Daniel Franco: 39:40

What was so fun about it? Oh, just

Adrian Tembel: 39:42

just the sense of, Can I do it, and also a sense of responsibility to everyone else that they've asked me to try and lead this place out? I can't let them down. And that is so much better than waking up in the morning and saying, Well, you know what? I got ahead of me, there's no real purpose to your day. I love that challenge. It was it was that was that the best two years of my professional life?

Daniel Franco: 40:07

Yeah, hit rock bottom, the only way was up anyways up, we could have gotten worse,

Adrian Tembel: 40:11

we could have actually completely gone under because we were on the verge of that.

Daniel Franco: 40:16

So back to the question of what working and managing both family and so role? Yeah, I was talking too much. Well, no, no, no, your point of having a purpose is, is absolutely crystal clear. And well, for us. It's something that we work with a lot of businesses on is we help them define their purpose. It really for me, it's about your own individual purpose. And family can provide that, as well as

Adrian Tembel: 40:44

Oh, yes. And the irony of that, that call to say it's in January 2009. To say you're right in the middle of the GFC. Yeah. You know, when you lead the firm, I was in the US with my wife, going through a very challenging personal period, because because we had serious challenges having children, we desperately wanted to have kids. So we were in the thick of these deep personal challenges. You know, she and I were in Denver, Colorado, and then I get that call, saying the firm's crumbling with your help, and Polly and working hard to become parents. That all worked. Margo was born. She was conceived shortly after. And she was born in November 2009. So my first child comes along best moment of my life.

Daniel Franco: 41:35

Absolutely.

Adrian Tembel: 41:37

And you're turning around the firm that I loved as well. You know, I had a deep empathy for this firm, you know, it's a labor of love to lead this firm. So success with Margot, you know, and of course, you want to build something for her, you're turning the firm around. So it was a wonderful period of turning things around and going from a low, some low points in 2007 2008, to both having a family and leading a business that I loved.

Daniel Franco: 42:05

Having to manage your time. Well, you're young, you're young, and then burn the candle.

Adrian Tembel: 42:10

And I was already traveling before Margot was born. So of course, it was normal that it wasn't there during the

Daniel Franco: 42:15

week. Okay, so you've had those habits ingrained? Yes. Yes. Because a child comes along, it does change a lot. Yeah, it I'm very

Adrian Tembel: 42:23

lucky. My wife, Polly, she and I want the same thing. So we we've, we're very aligned on those things. So she was very focused on supporting me doing what I had to do.

Daniel Franco: 42:36

In the rise to where you are today, and obviously all the success I rattled off those stats before and the and the success is, is quite paramount. Or quite prevalent, I should say. Did you? How did you go about it? Did you? Did you read books? Did you find mentors? Did you go back and study like what was your? What did you grapple on? Or did you have this knowledge already? And Bill,

Adrian Tembel: 43:01

one of my weaknesses is that I never had a mentor that taught me much. A number of friends who I worked for, who I liked very much, but they didn't teach me much. No, I don't mean that as a criticism at all. But I just didn't have that I was I was a, I was a bit of a self starter. And that's just the way things were set up when I was quite young. So I I learned from my own mistakes. Unfortunately, I've made so many. But I've learned from them myself later in life. Luckily, I've had the benefit of one or two businessmen who I admire greatly, who I've become very close with. And so I've probably learned more in the last few years about what lies ahead from them. But in my young years, I didn't really have much.

Daniel Franco: 43:49

What was one of those mistakes that you learned the biggest?

Adrian Tembel: 43:52

Look, the most famous one was just lack of discipline around I remember being sent out to a client, there's a business story. And there was a secret plan to close a number of their plants. There was going to be massive terminations of employees. And I was interviewing one of the senior executives who didn't know yet. It's really embarrassing story. And I assumed he didn't know about it. So I let him know about it that that meant that he was about to lose his job. And his whole team was about to be made redundant. So he terminated my interview pretty quickly. I was interviewing and I'm doing an investigation of a matter with him as a lawyer. And shortly after he went to his boss. And the whole of the company suddenly knew about the secret plans to close these plants. And so I got a little bit of trouble for that. And my boss at the time called me in and said What have you done? So of course I offered my resignation. Yeah, I was about 2425. And he said look, and there's a good piece of advice that he gave me. He said, Look, there's no harm in making mistakes. But it's it's a crime if you don't learn from them. Yeah. So I've learned to be a little more discrete, as I've gotten older, and I tell that story to the young lawyers to say, Look, we all make stupid mistakes. But please learn from them.

Daniel Franco: 45:08

Yeah, pick yourself up and get back on it. The I mean, that really comes down to the growth mindset. You can't dwell on those mistakes. I think everything you do should be about, again, coming back to that growth and learning, right? Yes, you're gonna make mistakes, but the best way to learn is by making those is by making you absolutely right. What? I'm really interested in the growth period, right, you're your new CEO. And I guess this could go back to you to when your this question can come back to you, too, when you're working with the Formula One teams. How did you manage overwhelm? How did you manage the time look as a growth trying to turn around those sickening feelings that go through your stomach? The unknown

Adrian Tembel: 46:00

the beautiful thing for though, again, my mother is older than me, she's listening. But apart from that, if there's anyone listening who's younger than me, and they still haven't got to this point, they've got this to look forward to. I'm a massive worrier. So if someone you know, that old line, when I started leaving the firm, the old you know what the consultants would come in, and they'd say, the old you know, what keeps you up at night, and you're trying to get to the issue, so they sell you a consulting service? And of course, I always answer I used to always answer everything worries me. Everything worries me. I get it from my genetics, I think I think there's always a disaster that's waiting in the morning, you know, something's gonna go wrong. Yeah, the beauty of getting older. One of the beauties of getting older is you learn that you actually always get through things. And you don't worry as much anymore, because even though there's something that lies ahead, that's uncertain. You've been through it 20 times, and you say, I'll get it through the 21st time. So, so huge worrier, always, you know, not sleeping and thinking about things. But in the last five or six years, I've become much more secure in myself, and my capacity to get through adversity as long as I stay focused and work hard.

Daniel Franco: 47:09

Did you ever feel imposter syndrome?

Adrian Tembel: 47:14

Well, I don't feel imposter syndrome, because I don't think I've achieved anything so so I don't feel like I'm, well, I'm not, I'm just a mediocre person. doing his best. So I don't feel like I'm successful. So therefore, I'm not an imposter. Because I'm just ordinary.

Daniel Franco: 47:33

We are not like if, if, like comparison is the root of all evil. But if you do, if you look at from the success factors you have achieved a lot.

Adrian Tembel: 47:42

Well, yeah, but one of my best friends is ROBERT CHAMPION de Cretney, who is, in my view, the state's by far best businessman. And I spent a lot of time with him. I'm very lucky. When I benchmarked myself against him. I realize I've got about 100 years to cope, to get to a reasonable level. So it all depends who you spend your time with.

Daniel Franco: 48:04

That's right. Yeah. Do you believe that in its own right, that that you are a product or an average of who you hang around?

Adrian Tembel: 48:11

Yes, for us, Robert is an example I spend time with him. And he's always pulling me up on mistakes made or weaknesses. And I'm always trying to refine them and improve them. Now, if I was with someone who isn't of his caliber? Would I be trying to improve myself? No. So so we all want to keep improving ourselves that

Daniel Franco: 48:31

we absolutely well? Yes, I think the people

Adrian Tembel: 48:34

I think I think everyone does, it's just that some people just don't know the glory of advancement, because they haven't had the benefit of leadership or guidance, and our job, your job and my job. And Robert decryptors job is to keep trying to influence younger people, to see the beauty of personal development, and how wonderful it can be when you can be your best. It makes life just wonderful, doesn't it?

Daniel Franco: 49:01

Yeah. Do you do any of your own personal development other than sort of the obvious of trying to improve every single day to read books? Do you?

Adrian Tembel: 49:11

Look, I read, I read a lot of history. And pre I start early in the morning. I'm usually at my bench at about 615 in the morning. And I'll almost always make a few bullet points of the key priorities I've got and how I'm tracking against them. And keep setting new goals as well. A quarterly goal was six months ago, five years ago. ago, by the time I'm 70, you know, and I'm always refining them and looking at them and checking progress. You know, you're on a plane and you're making notes, so it continuously scrutinizing myself and trying to push myself to go a little bit faster. So I'm probably more of that type. And then I'm just trying to watch other people now and listen and learn and see what I can copy them a bit more.

Daniel Franco: 49:54

Do you want to go into the goal setting? Can you give us an example of some goal that you might Sit for the next 12 months for yourself?

Adrian Tembel: 50:03

Well, yes, I have very clear, quantitative and financial. Yeah, you know, profit targets. I'm obsessed with profit targets. And I'm obsessed with acquisitions. So I'm always setting goals in the business, that I want to hit a particular deal, or a particular profit level by a particular time. That that, that that's, that's not unusual. In the longer term, I do have some, you know, hopes to contribute a little bit more to the state's economy. And so I try to set goals for, you know, playing a deeper role and doing that.

Daniel Franco: 50:39

So going back to the growth of Thomson gear over the years, how much emphasis did you put on the culture of the business?

Adrian Tembel: 50:46

A huge amount. The, you know, I mentioned earlier that I wanted the firm to become a competitive animal, and not an inward looking political organization that just had people fighting over the spoils of this, you know, pie that was obviously shrinking. Yeah. So growing the pie and outward looking men and women who were just hungry to hit the market. And that that's a cultural transformation. And that was achieved by a whole range of creating different incentives and creating different accountabilities. And, of course, fair, willing people that could never meet those standards, and welcoming those that I believed could and trying to show some judgment around, you know, those decisions. Brilliant. It's so it's so it's absolutely equivalent to, you know, the crows wanting to win a premiership or the power wanting to win a premiership, you know, building these high performance groups of men and women, but men, men, obviously, in Liverpool's power case, but men and women in the crows case, because they got a female team, but you're, you know, it's a people, it's building those teams up, and then setting a style that you think is match winning. That's what we're all about.

Daniel Franco: 51:55

What what do you think, is the number one thing that a CEO should do from a cultural perspective?

Adrian Tembel: 52:02

Well, what well, there's a million things, but for me, it's about setting an example of discipline and seriousness. So and being consistent with that. So so, you know, one of the lonely things is that I used to love the social fabric of the firm when I was when I wasn't leading the firm, love drink, and I love people. And I love a late night. But as the leader of the firm, are very, we withdrew from that, to set the example of complete objectivity, and seriousness, and focus is I don't socialize as much with my people. But I'd hope that I set an example of, you know, discipline and reliability, because I want them to learn from those things.

Daniel Franco: 52:44

Do you think socializing with them would detract?

Adrian Tembel: 52:48

No, no, look, I will, but I'm not going to be there at 2am. Yeah, no, kicking off the karaoke song. And making the handsome young boy or girl, you know, I'm gonna be focused on a behind me bear to get Yes. I believe strongly. Well, I believe strongly that the head of an organization should be always the first to leave and let the young kids enjoy themselves without the scrutiny of the boss. Okay, that's what I believe in it. There's no right and wrong, but that's my way. Yeah. And that has worked very well in the modern workplace standards in the last five or six years.

Daniel Franco: 53:19

Yeah. No doubt. You know? How do you manage your time?

Adrian Tembel: 53:24

Well, not well.

Daniel Franco: 53:28

Something absolutely great waste time.

Adrian Tembel: 53:30

I get so angry myself. I was in a podcast. Yeah, yeah. But but not always. I probably exercise a lot. And that keeps me positive and enthusiastic, even when I'm tired, because your exercise is, you know, it's endorphins and all those years. But then that sucks away energy for a few other things out of balance. But look, I don't use my time as well as I should. And I'm trying as you get older, and you know, we're all gonna die one day, you become more focused on using that time better. And I think I'm getting better at it. But gee, I wish I use my time better in my earlier years. So as you listen to you, you know,

Daniel Franco: 54:06

absolutely. i It's why I asked the question, because it's something I'm absolutely grappling with at the moment is how to best utilize, sorry, and organize meetings and events. And you know, you talk to me about how this podcast and I said one a week and you saw that a lot of time. Yes, it is. It is a lot of time as well as trying to manage your business.

Adrian Tembel: 54:25

Well, you have an enormous workload, but you're young. So you've got energy levels, and you can as long as you look after yourself, and don't you know, do everything in moderation with your alcohol and your diet and keep fit. You've got a you've got so much capacity at the moment.

Daniel Franco: 54:39

Yeah, dropping the ball and probably looking after the alcohol

Adrian Tembel: 54:44

is just one of the pleasures of life.

Daniel Franco: 54:47

Well, it's it. It's the lunches every day that get me a business. Yeah, well, that's

Adrian Tembel: 54:52

so you have to do that. Absolutely. And you know, you just have to stretch.

Daniel Franco: 54:56

Do you put emphasis on your diary though? Is there a way you manage specifically, do you have a

Adrian Tembel: 55:01

very poorly? Yeah, I'm an instinctive person. So I just respond to things. And there's, you know, rightly or wrongly, there's a pecking order of people around you. You know, so if the Premier's office gets in touch, obviously you drop everything. Yeah. If decrypt me gives me a call, you know, I take that call. Yeah. But you know, I can't do that for everyone.

Daniel Franco: 55:21

Yeah. So I want to just ask, rounding off the, you know, your rise and growing of the businesses see, if two young CEOs are starting off in roles, what's a piece of advice that you can give them

Adrian Tembel: 55:37

take a long term view. And that then will enable you to feel relaxed about short term bad days, because you say it doesn't matter. I've got a 10 year plan. What happens today is irrelevant in the scheme of things. And it just lowers your heart rate calms you down, and allows you to always say, Am I on track to achieve what I want in 10 years? Yes, it was a little bit of an aberration. But I'm still on track in the long term. And you sleep well. So long term thinking.

Daniel Franco: 56:08

This is something I grapple with because I love that viewpoint. And I'm obviously trying to do the same thing in manager business. Take a 10 year viewpoint. Does that does that 10 years just keep moving? Like when do you ever reached the 10 years, or the five years or whatever it might be? It might be a 20 year,

Adrian Tembel: 56:28

I've got a 20 year plan

Daniel Franco: 56:30

but the world changes so much is changing. I think horse things move

Adrian Tembel: 56:34

please don't think that when I say a plan, it's a it's a detailed business plan has everything mapped out because of course by tomorrow, most of it's irrelevant. Yeah, no, no, but the broad vision of what you're trying to end up looking like play the long game play the long game. So may I say that to our young lawyers don't get stressed about what happened this year. It it's irrelevant in the scheme of things get keep building your skills, keep building your knowledge. And just keep heading to where you want to be. Become our our business about building experts. Yeah. So how much closer are you to being an expert in an interesting field? If you're getting closer, then it's all on track. The money will come that that will always come to good people always.

Daniel Franco: 57:15

Do you. On touching on the relationship side, would you say as a CEO or a young CEO? Would you advise them to really work in honing in on the relationships both internally of the business and externally?

Adrian Tembel: 57:28

Well, you can never know enough people. So you can never stop growing your black book. And along the way, your some people might not connect well with you, but some will. So a that's fun. But be you will learn and then there'll be win wins. Yes, of course. So nothing novel in that. Yeah, yeah. Everything's

Daniel Franco: 57:51

about people. Absolutely. I agree. So that takes me to this point. You've been? You've come in at number 26. On the advertisers, most influential people in South Australia. They've they've tested you as one of the most connected people in in South Australia as well. Can you explain?

Adrian Tembel: 58:10

Well, obviously, that's not the case. And it's very nice of the advertiser to think that's the case.

Daniel Franco: 58:16

So you're suggesting what, no, no, no, they're new. They're not newsworthy.

Adrian Tembel: 58:20

Complete. Obviously, I'm a nobody. But But that, you know, I try hard. And I hope that I can achieve my full potential. I mean, that that's,

Daniel Franco: 58:34

what does it mean to be the most influential or one of the most influential?

Adrian Tembel: 58:38

Well, or I don't know what it means. But I know what it doesn't mean. And it doesn't, it means that so many people in this town are there. And they're lovely people, you know, you know, I love Adelaide, as you know, but they'll openly talk about how they run the city. Yeah, no one runs the city. No, our premier is our most powerful person. But he'll tell you that he doesn't run it, because no one runs it because it needs hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of influential men and women who are all aligned to build this city and to build this state. And so we're all part of a group and we need to be as united as possible. But look, the biggest mistake, I say is when people tell me about how powerful influential they are,

Daniel Franco: 59:21

you get a lot. Yeah, you get a lot. Why do you think they do is it you

Adrian Tembel: 59:25

I don't know, put maybe poor judgment? I don't know. Do you play

Daniel Franco: 59:29

play it down, though? I mean, you said that you're nobody, you've never amounted to anything. You're not successful by any stretch.

Adrian Tembel: 59:34

I think it's true.

Daniel Franco: 59:35

In what respect? I

Adrian Tembel: 59:37

mean, well, because because, you know, I went to Seton high, and most of the kids I grew up with weren't as fortunate as me. They didn't have a mum who pushed them really hard to get educated. So that was my lucky break. Yeah, that's my big lucky break. But they were as they were, they were smarter than me, though more charismatic than me. And I continue most of them are more charismatic and smart than all of the middle class, professional men and women I've dealt with in my time. So we're, we're, there's nothing special about those people who are lucky enough to get educated and play a deeper role in, you know, the future, for example of, you know, a country or city light in the way that you play a role and I play a role. So nothing special.

Daniel Franco: 1:00:24

Absolutely. I agree. So 2018, you became chair of the South Australian

Adrian Tembel: 1:00:31

Art? No, I became a commissioner and I became the Chair a few months ago,

Daniel Franco: 1:00:35

a few months. Okay. Yes. And you are now the chair of the South Australian product. tivity. Thank you. Well done. Advisor, obviously an advisor to Stephen much. Can you explain to us what that is? Look, look, I think

Adrian Tembel: 1:00:49

Stephens, an outstanding Premier. And he, I think he brings terrific commercial and economic acumen to his role. And one of his initiatives was to establish the assessor and Productivity Commission, which was a version of the federal body, and that it would be an independent unit that drove direct advice to him personally, on micro economic or broader economic reform opportunities to grow, to get our economic growth up. And to get our productivity up. I was deeply interested in that I want to play sub role in the renaissance of this state, I want to support him because he can't do it on his own. And he needs 100 People like me, not in government, but outside of government that are helping him. Yeah. Because, you know, he could be doing earning a lot more money doing, you know, having a lot more freedom in other roles, but he's chosen to serve. Yeah, so in our own small way, we all need to serve you what you do, I do, etc. And that's my tiny way of trying to serve and why I like it is because a, I think I'm reasonably competent, and building high performance teams, and we need to build the SAP see into a small economic analysis capability that can give great advice. And to, you know, I'd like to think that I have a reasonably good understanding of the economy that my views added to the team behind me might be of use to Steven as well. So that's why I've taken on I don't take a fee. I do it for love, and I do it to serve and assist.

Daniel Franco: 1:02:21

Yeah, I'm pretty passionate about the growth of this state, too. I grew a stone I grew up in just a stone's throw away from where you grew. Yeah. I was a great Satan. So next one, a great neighborhood. Absolutely. swamp lands.

Adrian Tembel: 1:02:32

Yes, exactly.

Daniel Franco: 1:02:35

What, what is it? From the advice, though, of South Australia? But what does that look like? What are you advising on?

Adrian Tembel: 1:02:45

That my key theme is that in my mind, is that this state must build its r&d platform. If we one of my key preoccupations is that if we are to outperform other states in the future, and we have to catch up, because you got to remember that we grow at a lower rate than other states, in this country, where we're worthless, we earn less, our productivity is lower. So we were in recent deep issues that we have to grapple with our budget is in deep deficit, we have growing levels of debt, the only way we can recover from that is if we lift our growth rates. And to me, the only way we can lift our growth rates and become obviously have become more competitive. But we must have a very strong research and development base. We need more scientists, more people in labs, building technologies and new ideas that can be then used by people like you and I, the businessmen and business women to grow businesses and Stephens really preoccupied with that through lot 14 Are things terrific. But I think we need to continue to focus on building the r&d base, and not just building the infrastructure. Yeah. And so that's a long term preoccupation. For me, I've got a number of others, but that's essentially that really defines my colleague LAN

Daniel Franco: 1:04:15

and in Spain in defense in healthy like,

Adrian Tembel: 1:04:19

oh, well, everything flows into those sectors is look, we will, can you we will never have a manufacturing base in this city. Unless we own the product. I'm even skeptical about submarines. That is unless we own the product, you will not have a manufacturing sector here because we can never compete on cost. So we need to build. You remember the pharmaceutical company foldings when you were a little boy, it was a famous pharmaceutical company got taken over sadly, maybe 1516 years ago, but it was an example of building medical technologies that then build manufacturing jobs in Salisbury and on it went and we we need to produce 20 of those equally in resource As you know, I mentioned Robert to quickly before, we need to have, you know, mining companies built in this town. And that's around our comparative advantage, but it's going to be people. But at the end of the day, we're gonna need to build our technologies, to then be the platform for those to go off and build and lead.

Daniel Franco: 1:05:17

And do you think we're on the right track?

Adrian Tembel: 1:05:19

We are. But I think we're going to continue to need to do better, because we have to grow at higher rates than we have historically, to beat that debt level. And to his great credit against Stephen said, on the way in as Premier, we need to get to 3% a year. And I don't think structurally, we're there yet. So we're going to need to do everything we can. Everyone needs to be open to reform and a bit of competitiveness injection, the private sector, the public sector, if we're to rebuild our fiscal strength, and grow again, and keep up with the rest of the country, because you don't want to live in a state that's always getting poorer than everyone else. That's right, because that means that everyone will just want to leave.

Daniel Franco: 1:06:01

Yeah. How do we attract pay? Well,

Adrian Tembel: 1:06:06

it got to think long term. But most importantly, we need to invest in our young knowledge workers that again, I say, we need to build on our r&d platform. And I would be delighted if our federal and state governments supported that even more NSA. And in addition to their important infrastructure investments, they add to that strong investments in people and building those research institutions and research hubs, not not with buildings, that's great, but filling them with people that have the funding behind them to do the research that will spawn the companies of the future.

Daniel Franco: 1:06:43

So it's actively go out and find these people and bring them here and you need

Adrian Tembel: 1:06:48

money. So this is about our state government spends around $20 billion a year. You know, they've got so many competing interests for that money, including hospital beds and school, so So I get that it's such a hard job to deal with those competing interests. But I think we're going to have to keep increasing the prioritization around what I just said, as opposed to maybe traditional infrastructure projects, which state governments as a whole feel that is important for them to be involved in and they are transports critical other infrastructure is critical, but so are people. And we need to find more funds for those people in the research in the research space, that's my long term view.

Daniel Franco: 1:07:29

Will COVID have an impact that,

Adrian Tembel: 1:07:31

yes, there is not a doubt in my mind, that lower to mid level professional service jobs will be more able to be secured. In cities like ours in the future, due to the working from home movement, they won't be astronomical, but we will attract to this town more of those back and call it lower in professional jobs due to our cost and simplicity and lifestyle advantage. And

Daniel Franco: 1:07:57

we're seeing people,

Adrian Tembel: 1:07:58

and I think that's real,

Daniel Franco: 1:08:00

do you think people will continue

Adrian Tembel: 1:08:02

to? Yes, yes, I do. And I think more and more large corporates will be very open to having, you know, not so much a back office function, but the mid level professional jobs that don't necessarily need to be near their customers in the big cities. And they'll have it down here. So I think we've got a real angle there. And that that will be a source of growth in this town I've got I've got no doubt about that. I speak about that. Not just as the chair of SA PC, but as a leader of a reasonably large professional service firm. We will bring more jobs into Edline over time, due to the working from home movement, and the need for highly paid jobs in my firm, not to be at 60 Martin Place in one of the most expensive towels in the country. I can move them here. Yeah, and we're all ahead, including the customer

Daniel Franco: 1:08:45

is that a fear for some of those other states is like, are they gonna? Ultimately, they're gonna work in tandem, right? They're gonna want to grow their states and cities

Adrian Tembel: 1:08:53

in Brisbane this week. Yeah. And of course, they have the same view. And they'll do well, very well out of this as well, because they've got the Olympics on top of year. So they got the momentum from the Olympics, and the lifestyle benefits of Queensland. But we're in it. So until Sydney and Melbourne can get its cost base. Right. And its infrastructure, right. There will be a desire for some workers to say, you know, if I could pick up this job in Adelaide, I'd go there, and the employers will see it because there's a cost advantage. Yeah. So we'll get some benefit from that.

Daniel Franco: 1:09:22

Yeah, absolutely. I didn't want to jump into COVID too much. But recently, Thompson gear put up a post on their LinkedIn page. You don't have anything to say. Whether they're stating that. Is it what is lawful and reasonable on mandatory vaccines within businesses? Yes. Can you provide?

Adrian Tembel: 1:09:42

Look, we've got a very simple view that we have to protect, to the extent possible, the safety of our people, and for the vast majority of them. That means for those who have been double vaccinated, they're very welcome in the office, but For those who choose not to be double vaccinated, then they're not welcome at the office. For the time being, we'll see how things evolve. Yeah, I'm not discriminating. I respect everyone's choice. But I'm not going to put the safety at risk, or the safety of my people at risk because of people's choices not to be double vaccinated. I've got a very simple view on it. And if there's a few employees that criticize me for discriminated against, I say, you can work from home. And if you can't work from home, you're not gonna be double vaccinated, then we'll sit down and talk about it. Yeah. So very simple.

Daniel Franco: 1:10:33

When we get to the point like are, obviously professional services as well. BHP being one of those clients have mandated that everyone in the businesses as vaccinated. Yes. The way as clients going into that business,

Adrian Tembel: 1:10:50

you have to be as well as you'd have to be as Yeah, really? Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:10:53

Does that not?

Adrian Tembel: 1:10:54

Wait, I didn't go that far. I haven't required that friends and clients coming into the office have to show proof of vaccination. I haven't got to that point.

Daniel Franco: 1:11:03

Now. It's a balance as in your clients would if some of your clients saying that you need to be vaccinated? What happens then in that in that situation? Can you then mandate?

Adrian Tembel: 1:11:14

Oh, so if they said as a supplier, even though you're not physically proximate with us? Yes. We still require you to be double vaccinated.

Daniel Franco: 1:11:23

Well, okay. So you don't need to be in the room with them. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Adrian Tembel: 1:11:27

I think it's very easy for us. Yeah. It's, it's really hard in construction and resources where there is that physical proximity? Yeah. So we're a bit clear of that. Of that

Daniel Franco: 1:11:37

you can work on Yeah, yeah. All the above. So you just recently going into Thompson gear recently been named the showing mid market legal advisor of the year.

Adrian Tembel: 1:11:48

Thank you. Yeah, that was it. That was a big moment. For us. It's brilliant. And well done to you to pick that up. Congratulations. No, no, that was a big deal. I made a big fuss about it earlier in the week in my weekly email to the firm because that that's a we beat all of the blue chip firms, six blue chip firms. You know, the big prestigious Sydney head of headquarter national firms, Allen's and Mallesons, and fields and cause and Ashurst. And they bid hard for that gone, and we picked it up well done. And that's a key marker for our progress. Because I've worked hard. We've worked hard at building a very strong mergers and acquisitions capability nationally. When I started, we had three m&a partners. Now we've got 25. Yeah. And they're spread all around the country. Big Deal count prestigious deal list. So that that was a big moment. So thank you for acknowledging that brilliant, yeah, great. Yes. And we see that as a stepping stone to getting closer to a few other things.

Daniel Franco: 1:12:39

This is the what is the mergers and acquisition market look like? You know, coming out of COVID? Is there earning? Yeah, it's

Adrian Tembel: 1:12:45

booming. I think it's white hot. I think it's overheated. Yeah. And we have to play that game. We have to play the cycle. But I think it's overheated.

Daniel Franco: 1:12:51

Is that because there's sort of shortage in people. So companies just like why can't go too much money, too much money.

Adrian Tembel: 1:12:56

Cheap. Money is too cheap, enormous stimulus. And all those things put together. cash balances are high. m&a is going through the roof. I mean, I'm hearing frightening stories of debt conditions being imposed on investors, meaning no conditions, you know, no covenants, low interest rates, have as much as you want. And so that scares me, but our job is to serve. And so we'll ride that way. But I'm, I'm a bear over the medium term in relation to those markets. I think we are overheated. It might run for a while. I can't call the top. But we're approaching it, I think. And to me, at the moment, it feels a little bit like 2006 2007 when it was very bullish like this in the GFC came along. Yeah, we are a very highly distorted world at the moment, for obvious reasons. Yeah. We've got incredibly loose monetary policy, incredibly aggressive fiscal expansion policies, all for good reasons. But they come at a cost. Yeah. And the cost is we are at risk of economic instability at the moment.

Daniel Franco: 1:14:02

Is that not one of your strategy, so to acquire sure and grow yet, of course,

Adrian Tembel: 1:14:09

I'm not criticized, but just that the price is being paid. And the frequency and volume of deals is very, very high. And it's a product of cheap money. Huge levels of confidence. Yeah. And, Daniel, if I can give you one piece of advice, the business cycle did not end in 2021. It's been around for a very long, long time, humans follow on the way up and they overshoot on the way up because we all copy each other. We go up and up. We also overshoot on the way down when things are bad. We think it's going to go bad forever. And the job of people like you and I as leaders is to try and say, let's not get too excited our way up. Let's not get too pessimistic on the way down. Yeah, that's true. But yeah, business cycles. Watch out for them. Yeah, I'll get you every time that they always come and go.

Daniel Franco: 1:14:53

So your future outlook is that it will come back down of course.

Adrian Tembel: 1:14:58

And we're lucky because were diversified, and we have access to litigation services and restructuring services that are stronger in downward markets. Yeah. So we won't neglect those capabilities, even though they're quiet now, because all restructuring is to make sure that we're ready to serve when we're in a different stage of the economic cycle.

Daniel Franco: 1:15:21

What are your what's your advice to those who are getting knocks on the door and getting asked to be bought out? To you? Because to me, the outlook of business looks quite positive. Now that is short term. Yes.

Adrian Tembel: 1:15:37

Look, my view is never lose sight of the fundamentals of business valuation. So you know, the old again, you're young man, but those phrases stronger for longer, or the whole valuation metrics has changed, you know, you don't value a business in a conventional way anymore. Your value just on revenue, profit. Now, that applies for some businesses, don't lose sight of long term valuation methods. And you know, if you really are being paid abnormally high premium at the moment, due to all the hype and cheap money, you know, reflect on it. Yeah. There's been some very famous business people who understand valuation, and they sell at the top, and then they buy back their commercial buildings and enterprise. I mean, Kerry Packer was famous media. Yeah, he understood media cycles, very cyclical. And he understood that at the bottom of the cycle, to sell in, you try to buy Yeah. So yeah, business cycles. Don't Don't ignore them.

Daniel Franco: 1:16:34

Brilliant. All right, we are coming to an end. What is the future for Adrian timbul look like? Well, and Thompson gear?

Adrian Tembel: 1:16:43

Well, look, I can absolutely guarantee that this firm will be better and stronger. In the future. I am supremely confident, continuous growth. Yeah, but it'll be quality growth and will be better. Because I think we've built the team, we've got the brand. And irrespective of who's leading the firm now, it will prosper. So I'm supremely confident about. About me. I'm just gonna keep trying.

Daniel Franco: 1:17:11

Yeah. Keep ticking along. Yeah. Great. To round off the podcast, we always ask a bunch of quickfire questions. This is just they they're slightly different. quirky, quirky questions. But we are we are big readers here at Synergy IQ and creating synergy podcast. Are you reading anything at the moment?

Adrian Tembel: 1:17:34

Yep. I'm reading a recent biography of our finest Prime Minister, Robert Menzies. Ah, yes. Yep.

Daniel Franco: 1:17:42

You're on a board. Yes.

Adrian Tembel: 1:17:44

I'm a director of the Menzies Research Center. Yes. Which is a right of center Think Tank.

Daniel Franco: 1:17:48

Yeah. Aligned liberal parties that while you're reading

Adrian Tembel: 1:17:54

trying to qualify for the game. I'm reading about his his time in the wilderness. Yeah. Okay. That's I was doing last night.

Daniel Franco: 1:18:02

What's the book coat?

Adrian Tembel: 1:18:03

What's Troy Braxton's? Okay. Brilliant book.

Daniel Franco: 1:18:08

Yeah. Excellent. Is there a book that stands out to you from a career growth point of view that you've read in your time? Is there is there any book that you would recommend more than the next book?

Adrian Tembel: 1:18:23

Not a book, but a documentary? On Nottingham Forest, the greatest soccer team. And Brian Koloff, the greatest soccer coach in world history took Nottingham first from the bottom of the Second Division. Yeah, to the top of the first division within a few years in the late 70s. And there's a brilliant film on them called I believe in miracles. So it's all about the possibilities. Yeah, great leadership and big dreams.

Daniel Franco: 1:18:51

I love it. I'll get on to it. We can is it on Netflix or anything? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Beautiful. I did ask this a roundabout way. I asked this during the podcast, but I want to bring it up here. Because this is what I want to ask from a life point of view, what is one lesson in your life that is taking you the longest to learn?

Adrian Tembel: 1:19:11

Probably self awareness. And, you know, understanding it took me a lot longer than it should have to work out the impact I have on other people and to you know, refine those qualities that you know, don't necessarily translate that well.

Daniel Franco: 1:19:29

What the impact on other people,

Adrian Tembel: 1:19:33

adverse impact. Yeah, you know, I'm a very straight, honest person. That doesn't work so well in Australia. You know, my genetics is from a very different part of the world. Yeah. It's a very direct blunt part of the world. You need to be a bit more diplomatic and British and Australian, you need to use subtlety. And it took me a long time to work that out at my expense, but you know, that's the journey, right? And that's the beauty of being a migrant.

Daniel Franco: 1:19:56

Absolutely.

Adrian Tembel: 1:19:57

You get to develop

Daniel Franco: 1:20:00

If you can invite three people over for dinner, who would they be?

Adrian Tembel: 1:20:03

Oh, you should? Well, Brian cloth. Yeah. was the first one. Yeah, that I mentioned. Probably Tom Playford, who I think was our finest Premier. And thirdly well have to be Robert Menzies, wouldn't it? I find his Prime Minister. Yeah, cuz that'd be a good one. That'd be good one.

Daniel Franco: 1:20:24

Oh, I'll just assume that Polly was invited. Alright, so talk to her. I just don't want you getting. I talked to her and I get ignored. Yeah, yeah, I'm feeling I just pulled away. Yeah, exactly. 100% if you what some of the best advice that you've ever received.

Adrian Tembel: 1:20:46

I, I didn't get much advice for many people to be honest. Because I'm, I come across as being a little self assured. And so as a result, I think people have found me unapproachable. And it's rare. But occasionally people will tell me off. And I'm always grateful for that my mum tells me

Daniel Franco: 1:21:07

nobody listens, you know, giving talks.

Adrian Tembel: 1:21:10

And a few others told me off as well.

Daniel Franco: 1:21:11

But very rarely, when you say tell you if you're an adult, right?

Adrian Tembel: 1:21:13

You say you shouldn't have done that. Yeah, that happened to me last Friday night. Yeah. at a dinner party. I got told off by someone older than me. And I hold in high regard. Yeah. And he said, Adrian, you shouldn't have done that. And I listen to each other. And I learned something from it. But very few people will do that.

Daniel Franco: 1:21:29

Yeah. I wish they do it more. Hmm. Yes. So. So it's hard, isn't it? Well, self awareness, right. Friends,

Adrian Tembel: 1:21:36

were also scared to give critical commentary to our friends, and they probably benefit from it.

Daniel Franco: 1:21:42

Or they absolutely benefit from it. I think receiving feedback is just as much a skill as providing I agree. Right. So we've got to get better at we do abs all of us. Yes.

Adrian Tembel: 1:21:52

I tried to take I mean, how good are you at receiving feedback and criticism?

Daniel Franco: 1:21:55

I pride myself on it, because, but that comes back to my core values of being of always wanting to learn. If someone provides feedback, my approach is always I'll listen. And I'll won't come in. And like unless I need to, and I'll and I'll decide whether I take that on or not. Yeah, but I'm not gonna sit there and fight back and have an argument. I don't want to get into a war of words, you're entitled to your opinion. If you believe something, I'll take that on board. I might adjust my behavior next time. But I'm, for me, I'm a sucker for knowledge. If someone's providing me for wisdom, how good is that with some advice, then? Yeah, I'm keen to learn I feedback is a gift. Right? That's how I look. But I don't think we do it. Well, we don't. It's a muscle that you get better the more you do it.

Adrian Tembel: 1:22:42

Everyone in Australia is telling everyone else how good they are. And how brilliant we are. how resilient we are. Because we've got two jobs. Yeah, we should pat ourselves on the back. Yeah. Trying to save us from dying. Yeah, I mean, seriously.

Daniel Franco: 1:22:53

Yeah. You know, yeah, I agree. If you had access to a time machine, where would you go?

Adrian Tembel: 1:23:02

I'd go. Yep. I'd go to I go back to 1977 1978. And go watch Forrest play. When when Brian Huff was in charge

Daniel Franco: 1:23:15

the be in the rooms with him.

Adrian Tembel: 1:23:17

Just watch the game. Yeah. See the great man action? That's awesome.

Daniel Franco: 1:23:22

If you had one superhero power, what would it be?

Adrian Tembel: 1:23:27

Oh, flying would be good, wouldn't it? It would be

Daniel Franco: 1:23:29

to be boring.

Adrian Tembel: 1:23:30

I look. I look at these birds. My dog coffee. Yeah. Named after Brian Clark. Yeah. I watch him for hours trying to he watches these birds. Yeah. And they play with him. They stay in the branches and just mix him up. Yeah. And I think I'm sure he's thinking if only I could fly like that. Check it out to flying and be good fucking legend, looking at everything and checking out things and disappearing for a while.

Daniel Franco: 1:23:50

Yeah, sense of freedom. Yeah, freedom. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I actually warned you.

Adrian Tembel: 1:23:58

One thing you want me? Okay.

Daniel Franco: 1:24:01

I could tell jokes. No, I know, you guys. That's all I feel. You're right. You are a straight shooter. And I thought if there's one question you're gonna struggle on. It's this one.

Adrian Tembel: 1:24:09

Picking. I'm notorious for being the worst joke I actually

Daniel Franco: 1:24:14

gotten. I let me ask the question. What is your best dad? Yeah.

Adrian Tembel: 1:24:22

So it's got some relevance because I'm notorious for giving along PowerPoints. Okay. Yeah. And I my PowerPoint was go for too long. So why did the PowerPoint presentation cross the road? Why to get to the other slide? So I'm so bad.

Daniel Franco: 1:24:41

It's brilliant. It's very rare.

Adrian Tembel: 1:24:43

To get a laugh when I give you speech. I'll tell the joke. No one laughs and then I'll say to the room. Thanks for your support. And then

Daniel Franco: 1:24:52

it's the dig it yourself that brilliant. Thank you so much for your time today. Adrian. It's been wonderful. learning a little bit more about you and your career your journey experiences your ups and downs and your learnings thank you for all that you're doing for the South Australia as well as you know that they can't go unnoticed you're doing you are a man of influence even though you play it down, you are doing some really great things within the state. And you know, I'm on board I'm on board completely with with growing and developing and I don't want to be known as a backwater state, I want to say Australian boy through and through. So for me, it's it is always about growth and development of both self and of the community and of the state. So thank you for all that you're doing.

Adrian Tembel: 1:25:35

Well, thank you. And, and that was a lot more fun for me than it was for you or any listeners. My mom enjoyed it. But you are. I mean, this seriously, what you're doing is outstanding. Doing these things is outstanding. And you've got a huge future ahead of you.

Daniel Franco: 1:25:51

Appreciate it. Thank you very much. All the best. Thanks, guys. Take care. Thanks for listening to the podcast. Or you can check out the show notes if there was anything of interest to you and find out more about us at Synergyiq.com.au. I am going to sk though, if you did like the odcast, it would absolutely ean the world to me if you ould subscribe, rate and eview. And if you didn't like t, that's alright too. There's o need to do anything. Take are guys, all the best.

Synergy IQ: 1:26:20

Thank you once again for joining us here at creating synergy. It's been great spending this time with you. Please jump on to the synergy IQ Facebook and LinkedIn page where the discussion continues after the show. Join our mailing list so you'll know what's happening next at Synergyiq.com.au. And f course don't forget to ubscribe to this podcast. And f you really enjoyed it, please hare it with your friends.