Creating Synergy Podcast

#47 - Wendy Perry, Managing Director of Workforce BluePrint on Entrepreneur Mindset and Scaling your Business Globally

August 26, 2021 SynergyIQ
Creating Synergy Podcast
#47 - Wendy Perry, Managing Director of Workforce BluePrint on Entrepreneur Mindset and Scaling your Business Globally
Show Notes Transcript

Wendy Perry is the Managing Director of Workforce BluePrint and  Entrepreneur Facilitator for Adelaide – West, Switch Start Scale.  

Wendy is an entrepreneur herself, with her business doing work all over the world. Further to this, she is also an author, educator, explorer, innovator, mentor and speaker on Entrepreneurship and Innovation. Wendy is also a renowned expert in Workforce Planning and Development, Vocational Education and Training (VET),  International Capability and Capacity Development.  

Wendy is living a life purpose, working to her strengths in Mentoring and facilitation, where she works alongside entrepreneurs, founders, individuals, organisations, start-ups, scaleups, students and unicorn companies.  

On top of her own business, Wendy is strongly aligned to other business interests and partnerships, which include Australia Bhutan Ventures, Blue Poppy Ventures and Big Kids Adventures. 

In this episode, Wendy shares insights into her career journey, to the world she finds herself in now, her description of an entrepreneurial mindset and her approach to scaling the business globally: with tips on,  where to start, what countries to look at and a typical approach to take. 

We also discussed how to improve productivity and get stuff done, and how she manages her busy schedule. We talked about what is workforce strategy and why is it important, what the future of work looks like and to finish up, Wendy shared with us the meaning of her personal # of #humblehustle. 

Where to find Wendy Perry

Join the conversation on Synergy IQ LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram (@synergyiq) and please support other leaders by liking, subscribing and sharing this podcast. 

Access SynergyIQ Website to get to know more about us. 

Say hello to our host Daniel on LinkedIn.

Books  and podcasts mentioned on this episode: 

Synergy IQ:

Welcome to Creating synergy where we explore what it takes to transform. We are powered by Synergy IQ. Our mission is to help leaders create world class businesses where people are safe, valued, inspired and fulfilled. We can only do this with our amazing community. So thank you for listening.

Daniel Franco:

Hi, there synergizers and welcome back to another episode of The creating synergy podcast. My name is Daniel Franco and today we have an expert in all things entrepreneurship and workforce planning. The lovely Wendy Perry on the show. Wendy is the Managing Director of Workforce blueprint and an entrepreneur facilitator for Adelines West switch stars scale. Wendy is an entrepreneur self with a work doing business all over the world. Further to this she's also an author and educator, an explorer, an innovator, a mentor and speaker on entrepreneurship and innovation. Wendy is also renowned expert in Workforce Planning and Development, vocational education and training, international capability and capacity development. Wendy is living a life of purpose working to her strengths in mentoring and facilitation where she works alongside entrepreneurs, founders, individuals, organizations, startups, scallops, students and unicorn companies. On top of this, when the is strongly aligned to other business interests and partnerships, which include Australia, Bhutan ventures, blue Poppy ventures and big kid ventures. So in this episode when she shares her insights into her career journey to the world, where she finds herself today, a description of an entrepreneur mindset, and her approach to scaling business globally, with tips on where to start, what countries to look for, and a typical approach to take. We also discussed how to improve productivity and get stuff done, which is a very important topic, and how she manages her busy schedule. We talk about workforce strategy and why it's important what the future of work looks like. And to finish up when she shared with us her meaning of a personal hashtag, hashtag humble hustle. If you love the episode, which I know you will be sure to hit subscribe button and check us out at Synergy IQ calm that I you. And synergy IQ on all the social media outlets. Excellent. So welcome back to the creating synergy podcast. My name is Daniel Franco, your host and today we have the wonderful Wendy Perry on the show. Thank you for coming on the show.

Wendy Perry:

It's nice to be called Wonderful. Excellent.

Daniel Franco:

Well, just the WWE, the WWE.

Wendy Perry:

Show D what's in front of you on

Daniel Franco:

the light for the life of Daniel. Yeah. So expert, coach, facilitator, Keynote, all the above expert in entrepreneurship, workforce planning 20,000 followers on LinkedIn. So a very large following work all around the world. Yep. Who is Wendy Perry? And how did you get to where you are today?

Wendy Perry:

Yeah, I guess. Um, so from a core belief point of view, I want to support other people to do well. And the angle that I most appreciate or enjoy supporting people with is their own business, or their own kind of enterprise or pursuits, doing something that you kind of care about or that you're passionate about, they can make money from that you can kind of explore the world if you want to. That's what I love to see people kind of do, you know, having their own economic independence. And developing themselves is really important. So that's sort of a core belief or philosophy. And it's sort of been through my whole career, I guess from the beginning, too. So I've had different job roles, different businesses, and we can delve into that if you like.

Daniel Franco:

Yeah, absolutely. And first and foremost, thank you for offering and growing people in this area, it's obviously very important. Well, the world wouldn't be or the business wouldn't be where we are if it wasn't for entrepreneurs. So the work you're doing in working with me specifically in their mindset is thank you, and kudos to you. So yeah, let's let's dive into a little bit of, of your background. Yeah. Where did you come from? And how do you get to where you are today?

Wendy Perry:

pretty humble kind of roots, really, in the very first job that I had was as a trainee. And so that was in government in Business Administration kind of role. But alongside entrepreneurship and economic development, it's kind of like a series of ease. So like education and employment is really a focus working with people too. And I truly believe in people developing developing themselves, you know, all through their lives, but I had that experience. You know, when I was in my late teens, and you know, you green back then you don't know any other difference. So I used to go and have meetings with people who were managers and leaders and You know, suggest ideas and all sorts of things. And I sort of finished that quite early, you know, compared to how long it normally takes people to do that kind of length, of course. And I remember calling a meeting with the woman who was leading the training area at the TAFE Institute. And I said, I want to train in this, I want to help other, you know, young people and trainees, and so on. So, you know, you look back and you go, it's pretty cheeky now, but hey, it's sort of set the scene and don't ask you don't get really Yeah, so I had a couple of promotions there. And I thought I wanted something a little bit different. So I was doing a little bit of casual teaching at the time. So more like adults, sort of context rather than schools. And I worked for Telstra for a while and the contact center kind of industry, which came back a little bit later, which we'll touch on at the moment. My husband and I, we were married quite young. We married when we were 20. So we already had one daughter. And then we had a second one with only 21. So we were like, he was like the apprentice. And I was like the trainee. And over time, we both built businesses. But I started doing a bit more teaching casually. And then I was about 25. And I was offered a role as educational manager into FSA. And I'd had other roles working in private training organizations and things like that, too. So that was like an unbelievable education, because the role that I had was in business development. And, you know, education is a very particular market. And one day, I'd go out to see the automotive guys and the next day aged care the next day viticulture, you know, all of these different industry sectors, sectors, and you'd never be able to, you know, get that kind of learning without being fully immersed. And that was around fee for service apprenticeships, traineeships, that sort of thing. That's amazing.

Daniel Franco:

Yeah. The end the BD world, I guess you're always researching the industry. So you're learning from your own perspective, but then also hearing them speak. And

Wendy Perry:

yeah. And you know, I was the youngest manager ever in TFSA. And I would go out with colleagues from different industry sectors, like hospitality, people would go down to McLaren vowel mate, restauranteurs, or whatever. But often, I would find myself, you know, taking a bit of a lead, because they weren't sure about how to have those conversations about what the workforce needs were. And I remember, we drive down in the car, we were going to McLaren vallot somewhere. And we talked about how we're going to have the chat. Because until you get into a situation, and then you see it kind of play out. And then you're like, Oh, we shouldn't have done it like that. So you do a little bit of prep. And often these experienced people, you know, have got all these years in the industry, but they don't have this other sort of component. And I remember kicking people under the table or whatever, but they would normally let me, you know, kind of take the intro and to find out about, you know, basically ask questions, where was that employer out? What were they trying to do? How many people work for them? So, you know, putting them as the star of the show, if you like, and being really curious about that business. So that was probably the early sort of side of that strategic workforce planning and development kind of experience that grew to?

Daniel Franco:

How did you did you? Did it just naturally come to you? Did you do a bit of study in that space? Where like, where did this learning about workforce planning Come in? Did it come easily to you? Or did you have to work and learn and strategize for

Wendy Perry:

it was a real mix of things. So you know, I definitely believe in practical on the job emotion and things like that, because, well, how did you know what to do? I did also do a master's of education early in my 20s, which had an adult learning sort of focus and leadership and management programs, as well. But I think that role that I had sort of set the scene, because basically, where else would you get experience working across literally every industry sector that there is, but the thing about it is that there's so much commonality. So whilst I was at TAFE, I was also asked to do some work with what was called an industry training advisory board back then. And so that wasn't just looking at organization by organization that was looking at whole industry sectors. And there was this thing called Business vision 2010, you might be a little bit too young to remember it. Yeah. But it was

Daniel Franco:

depends on the year, but I don't remember it.

Wendy Perry:

So it was like, state government was a Liberal government at the time, and it was a state government policy. And they would pick up key priorities that they wanted to put in place by the year 2010. And one of the priorities was women into the IT industry. So I was seconded across to do that particular project. And we would do quarterly updates. You know, at the festival, central Convention Center, there'd be all these different business industry employers there. You had like ambassadors that were attached to these different projects and you committee groups. So the kind of level of networking that you're exposed to was really great, and the support. So I think, you know, employee industry based having that education context, and then seeing that industry kind of level and seeing that broader kind of government policy perspective, and the interconnections of those projects was a really great grounding for it, really.

Daniel Franco:

So from there, you decided that you want to go out and start your own. I mean, it was one more role. But one more, one more

Wendy Perry:

role. So I was asked to come across and join the policy team working for the Department of Education, which was looking at employer kind of connections into this time, you know, mostly high school, vocational education, training and sace, and which is the South Australian Certificate of Education. So, but I only did that for a year or two, then went ahead. election time. And because that team was the one that implemented policy, they really weren't sure what was going to happen with that group. So they kind of said, like, if there's something else that you want to pursue, we were open to it. And I had all these people saying, Oh, can you do this project? Can you work for us on this? Can you consult on this? And like more, why can't because I'm full time and you know, I'm working in government. But I was able to negotiate two days and three days a week, for three months. And then I'm rash. That's it. I'm kidding. I knew I'd be fine. Because had this work? rolling in? Yeah.

Daniel Franco:

What, at what point in your, in your journey? Did you like is it at the only time that you thought actually I could go out and start my own key here was when you were faced with the impending potential loss of your job? Or did you have this sort of building in the background and thinking, do I actually want to work for someone

Wendy Perry:

forever? Yeah, definitely building in the background, and I can my mindset wasn't like it wasn't the conversation are you going to use lose your job, it just might be, they'll have a different focus, or whatever. So the job was still be there. But I'm like, in some respects, the higher you kind of get up in some of these bureaucracies, the less independence and freedom you have, and that doesn't suit me at all. So from red tape, bit of well, just you know, I'd prefer to have variety, make suggestions, implement things and not get permission to have to get permission from other people. When I feeling Yeah, when I did have that role in typhus. And even before that, when I was in contact centers like that selling weed that role at TAFE, they only had a few$100,000 worth of business coming in with traineeships and apprenticeships and some fee for service. And in like six months, I took it to a couple of million. So I kind of knew that I could do that. So I always had, you know, you might describe as an entrepreneur or straight, like, if I can do this for them, and which is kind of like a bit of a hard slog to be honest. Yeah, in terms of what you're selling and marketing. And, you know, you're still working within a, you know, government sort of agency, then surely I can do it for myself. So I had the confidence, I guess.

Daniel Franco:

And so when you did move out, you had some work coming in? Yeah. Well, you hit pretty quickly with the the world of business in the sense of the, you know, when you start out in your own business, and I've been through it, and I know many people have been through it, and that first couple of years, it's, maybe I'm not cut out for this sort of stuff. How did you work on your mindset? And, you know, obviously, the ups and downs that business can can bring the constant hustle that it might throw at you? Yeah. How did you manage yourself in that space?

Wendy Perry:

I reckon I didn't really have those sorts of feelings until much later. So at this time, this is 20 years ago, right? I'm 28. Yeah. And confident, as you know, and I sent out a letter, well, Joyce to end, you don't know much better, you know, you kind of just do what you think you can and kind of being a bit green and not exactly cheeky, but, you know, being positive, suggesting things reaching out to people kind of gets you far. And I remember I sent a letter. So what we did back in the day, up to 30 people

Daniel Franco:

went through by dove, or is that a lot

Wendy Perry:

of these connections that I had, because I you know, I did have decent networks. Yeah, somebody you know, going out, but I sent this letter out. And from that got a number of jobs. One contract I got was with a national program that was basically in a particular industry sector working on their workforce. And it happened to be based here in LA, which was unusual. And I had that contract, kind of like as a backbone couple of days a week ended up being for eight or nine years. So in that role, I coached and mentored a couple of 100 projects that people would apply for funding and they And it's all from around the country, and it was a variety of different areas. And then you'd be assigned a certain allocation of projects to coach and mentor. And because of the kind of marketing and Beatty background, I also managed the National Conference and literally did all their marketing. So it was with that, obviously, I had that context of that organization's head on, but that can't help but extend your networks, build your personal brand. And, you know, you fly around the country all the time. I used to fly, you know, a couple of times a month, or something like that at this time. So that then, when you say about the workforce planning and development experience, at this time, I was more focused on the education sector, actually, yeah. So that then though, put me into the context of again, looking inside all these different regions, locations, industry sectors, you know, tiny employers up to massive multinationals. So it was a great kind of education that you that you can't,

Daniel Franco:

what were the typical ups and downs that used to face? The I mean, we owe it securing 9, 8 or nine year contracts. Yeah, it's less damn downtime in that space. And more about just the constant workload, the gift of Minister,

Wendy Perry:

I didn't know that it was at eight or nine, at the time was like a year on year thing. So there's always still the thing of filling the pipeline. And then you've got other time, right? So, of course, you've got to still attract projects, and whatever. And the other personal challenges was more about the travel and the kind of time can be managing a family and managing a young family to go. Yeah, two daughters. So you know, what were they at the time that was sort of like, under 10, I guess. And my husband, Scott's had his own business, too. So well to do. So he runs a building construction companies, originally a plumber, and mechanical services, and he's had a brewery and other sorts of interests and property and stuff over the years to

Daniel Franco:

see children have no choice but to be entrepreneurs.

Wendy Perry:

I definitely do not want to be entrepreneurial. So GE worked more for other people, but still work more for entrepreneurs. She like she worked for university too. And then now she has her own side, hustle businesses, main business, our youngest daughter, she started working in my company from when she was 16. I mean, officially, you know, when our kids, they would do things uncomfortable, the filing stuff, the envelopes, whatever, whatever it might be. So she started as a school based apprentice in our business. And she didn't like the way that career education was delivered at her school. So she started a business to basically address that.

Daniel Franco:

So they're entrepreneurs. So what are their names? Yeah.

Wendy Perry:

So Amy, Amy and Jess. Yeah. And we have son in laws as well. We have Dan and Tyler. So grandparents, yes. No, but you know, I'm probably on the on the horizon pretty soon. must be very proud. Very proud. Yeah.

Daniel Franco:

I'm really interested in you talked about you flying a lot. And you and I have talked offline about starting a business. And we'll get into the entrepreneurial mindset and what that looks like. But when starting a business, yeah, it is a common thought process of need a product need something to sell need a service. That's something that you know, people would buy and pay money for. Right? Yeah, we always look locally, we always look who around us can buy and how do we how does that work? Yeah, it seems to me and just through your your mindset that you've not got those sort of blinkers on, in the sense that you're looking globally? Which you are you are working on it on a global scale? Can we really want to impact the thought process? And even maybe that maybe the procedures around what that looks like? Do we start locally, then we go into state and then we go globally? Or do you just go straight? Well, I want to or is there no method? Or what do you suggest for anyone that is looking at starting something which could potentially grow? You know, yeah, the Toby pieces of the world is gone out and built this app that's just gone international straightaway. And obviously, in the news from selling a couple 100 million, if not more, yeah. Yeah, just interested in your thought process. Yeah,

Wendy Perry:

there's a couple of things that falls back down to so as a foundation sort of point. And I guess I see this a lot as the entrepreneurship facilitator for Adelaide, like, I'll meet with 15 or 20 people awake and now kind of share with me what their ideas might be for a potential business. And it could be an idea or it could be up and running. It's kind of like, okay, yes, we still bought it back down to what's the problem that you're solving? What's the minimum viable product or service that you've developed? Because some people take a long time to do that. And then they think that they have to test it in very complex ways, you know, and they don't necessarily take on board feedback, or they get feedback from people who are not even relevant. And so I think

Daniel Franco:

you definitely not relevant Are you meaning they're not there and user, they're not the client,

Wendy Perry:

they're never gonna buy from you. They're never gonna buy from you. And even there might be some people who see themselves in a mentoring or coaching role, but they're never your customer. They've not been in your shoes. They don't know this industry specifically. Yeah. So you've got to be really discerning about the actual evidence that you use, and it's, will people really put my pay for it, they're gonna pay for this thing. And not just in a sympathy, nice way, because they are your friend or family, you know? So

Daniel Franco:

yeah, actually getting outside of your comfort zone and seeking people who are going to give you some pretty constructive feedback.

Wendy Perry:

Yeah. And you know, you've got to really do that through networking and building relationships. So I think it is important that you do have like a local base, you've got to have a track record somehow. But, you know, South Australian markets, tiny, you know, even Australian markets very small with 25 million people, right? Sometimes it can actually be easier, depending upon what it is that you're selling to sell interstate. Because here in Adelaide like we were, our strength is how collaborative and network we are. Sometimes that can be tricky. It's

Daniel Franco:

a very relationship driven. Yeah, the old saying is, if you can do business in South Australia, you can do business any Yeah, for sure. Why? Why is that though? Why is it so easy? Why is it that we can go on Interstate knock on the door, and pretty much get a meeting, as opposed to here, you have to be made to get introduced with someone?

Wendy Perry:

Yeah, well, I guess there's a couple of things. I mean, we are small, we are very well networked from a business industry entrepreneurial point of view, people have perspectives or views right or wrong about somebody's level of experience, or capability or capacity. And that might be outdated. Now, even though the person sort of grown and developed beyond that, but you know, we all think about, oh, well, I know this person about, you know, they're at this level, and they do this sort of thing. Yeah. Now, it's ease, much easier to get meetings and things interstate. But when I first started, the company wasn't that easy. Because it was like you were from Adelaide, South Australia. You're not from Sydney, or Melbourne, or, you know what I mean, that's changed over time. And I think part of it is kind of related to state branding, like Now many people are envious of our lifestyle and potentially want to live here or holiday here, or whatever. And we've seen more examples of innovative organizations and products and things come out of SA, so we've sort of leveled up, if you can kind of grab that common ground. So you've always got to get some sort of hook or reason as to why you're reaching out to someone, you're not just gonna do it randomly. You know, so maybe you've got a connection in common that can see something collaborative that you can work on, or you've been following them on social media or LinkedIn in there, you can see they're interested in something in particular. So from a lead gen or business development point of view, or trying to build a relationship, you have to have some sort of connection or foundation. Internationally, we can talk about that it gets in. Yeah, I

Daniel Franco:

just wanted to touch on that. So that reaching out for a hook or a reason or introduction. Yeah, one thing I would like to point out, and people often come to me even just being working in, you know, the business growth aspect of my business. Reaching out once is not necessarily, I would say 90% of the time reaching out once like with one email, or one LinkedIn message, or one phone call, or one text message, whatever it might be, isn't gonna get you anywhere, it's constant. And I say that the statistics are it takes almost eight to nine times to actually get in touch with someone, I would say, by my experience, most people are too busy to read the first one. So your email 234 times whatever it is follow up with a phone call. I've seen and just purely been thanked for reaching out two or three times purely from the other person going Sorry, I missed your first one. But yeah, I really wanted to connect with you, whatever it might be. So I think the key point and that is don't just stop at the first email, if you don't get a response. It's not you should keep pursuing. We've got to balance

Wendy Perry:

that because you can't be a pest but I'm not. I know. That's not what you mean. But you've got to be genuine and you've got to have a real reason that you're adding value like if somebody you know connects with me on LinkedIn in my inbox message straightaway, like delete Yeah, you know, if it's not clear and customized or personalized if they've not thought through, why would we even connect or potentially do business and even yesterday, I had a guy like call me Hi, you know, I just you know, looked at your LinkedIn profile. Yeah, block his number you know, it's it's not good practice.

Daniel Franco:

I'm glad I got through. Here, okay. So internationally there okay, so yeah, so we go into state so what Yeah, all right. I'm, I'm a business in South Australia. I've started up I'm doing pretty well. I want to move into state I'm not moving to state, but I want to I want to grow my business interstate. Yep. What do I do? What do I start?

Wendy Perry:

Yeah. So I guess, the easiest way, I think in the sort of business that you have, and obviously depends on the context thing down. So generically, it doesn't, necessarily, but you can't have a scattergun approach either. And you've got limited time, money and resources. And so you've got to sort of hone in, okay, where might the best connection or fit be? Is that down in industry kind of line in terms of thinking about a bit of a segment? Or is that more about some sort of location or region? Or is it more about the kind of profession that the person has, like, there might be a HR manager or a CEO or whatever.

Daniel Franco:

So then you think so really building down your strategy, and

Wendy Perry:

your target market? And like prioritizing that, but then you think through? Where are they hanging out? So Are they members of a peak body or professional association? Or are they connected to each other in some way, shape, or form? And I always have this sort of roll about, like, four for one. So it sort of plays in here, but it plays into other things. It's like, can you kind of like do things once and get four times the return? Can you reach out to an industry association, for example, maybe be a speaker or offer to do something and then get that whole database, you know, connected into what are aware of what you're doing? Yeah. So, you know, conferences used to be a great way to do it, that's much trickier now. But events, you know, still as a strategy is a good, good way to kind of like go, but I also think through, if you're going to go into stage, or potentially think about scaling up your business, then you need some other aligned partners that are also trying to do something similar to you. So a membership organization could because they want to add value. Or maybe there's another company or a couple, where you've got that same target market in common, and you're offering different things, and you can somehow leverage each other's databases, and connections.

Daniel Franco:

Excellent. So do you need to fly, though? Do you need to get over there and get in amongst that luggage?

Wendy Perry:

Like, can you ask me two years ago, I would have said, for sure. You know what I mean? Now, I mean, you can zoom? Well, it's it's tricky. I mean, obviously, you can speak on online events and things like that. And you can have meetings, if you are so looking at peak bodies, or professional associations, you know, they've all had to adapt, and they're all trying to add value around why be a member of this association. So that now gives you an opportunity to offer something or every something if you know what they need. The other thing that I found, which is sort of counter intuitive, but through the pandemic and lockdowns, like I've reached out to people in Canada and the UK in the US who I would never ever normally, like, you know, they're like, authors or messy, you know, leaders in a certain field or whatever, Hey, would you come on and do a webinar or, you know, do a live chat or whatever. And they agree to my amazement, and normally, they would have cost like 2030 grand if you try to pay them to come to, you know, one event or whatever. So it's kind of opened up other opportunities. And with that, you know, that these often throw a LinkedIn, one message, you know, to hook in to get them to what's your typical message, like? I do, say, reaching out, like I specifically choose words that are going to kind of like resonate, and I say, reaching out, because I think that what that implies is that the other person will genuinely respond, because you're kind of asking for help. And I often ask more for advice. I'm completely about about you. Yeah, not about me at all. Like, for example, Brenton Kane, who wrote the book about how to get, you know, millions of followers. I sent him a quick message on LinkedIn said, Hey, like, I read your book, and I loved it was awesome. Your strategies and things in there have an Asia Pacific audience and because he's US based, so that can be a bit of a leverage or a benefit? What's added value? Right? Yeah. But he would never normally necessarily tap into that kind of audience or database. And, you know, he's in lockdown, too. He wants to expand, you know, he's got programs and products and books and things. Would you mind, you know, speaking live for half an hour sharing some of those hints and tips and insights, and he just agreed like that. Yeah. So, yeah, I kind of have a little bit of a behavioral psychology underpinning to some other language that is used.

Daniel Franco:

I think it's critical to as you say, reach out and not talk about yourself. I think that is probably the most critical thing. Talk about something that you read that they wrote that they've or something they commented on, or something that they're involved in. Yeah, it's definitely a better way to go. And it's not in the first message shouldn't be about the sale should be about hey, how do we get you know, or even a compliment and then maybe follow up two weeks later or three weeks later or something like that? If you bombed by Yeah, you do become a pest. Yeah, for sure. But you know, it's something you learn and acquire. I'm still not great at figuring it out as we go along

Wendy Perry:

with you. I guess you asked about how to South Australian business might go international. Yeah,

Daniel Franco:

that's Yeah, absolutely. Next question. So, yeah, International Talk to me that is that is overwhelming in its own right. You think about where do I start? How do I? How would I even service? Yes, emotionally? So yeah,

Wendy Perry:

well, I don't know if this is gonna be right for everybody. But if I can sort of share about some of the things, you know, those are learned over the years. And the first. So with workforce blueprint, we were doing heaps of work in different industries, you know, traveling as a sale around the country, every state and territory during our speaking gigs, all this kind of stuff, but is passionate about helping helping other people, particularly around their economic dependence and developing their workforce. Okay, is there a way to have more of an impact. And I had a couple people in my network that were doing international work already. So in 2013, and I think this is important, even I didn't realize how important it was at the time. You know, we do regular strategic planning sort of cycles. So I put it into the vision of the company that we would be going global and international, but without much detail, to be honest. And then

Daniel Franco:

planting the seed almost. Yeah,

Wendy Perry:

was almost like convincing myself. You know, I'm the Managing Director, so I tend to talk myself into things. And then I'll talk to other people about it. Almost like as if it's happening, and then I'll have

Daniel Franco:

to make it happen. Yeah, it's on the radar on it. Yeah, that's just the way I'm doing.

Wendy Perry:

I've said I'm doing it. So put that into the strategic plan. And then from this one person in particular, that I knew that was doing a lot of international work. She is based in Queensland at the time, Sterling Heights in Asia Pacific. And, you know, we'd networked over the years, and I said, you know, have you got any ideas or suggestions. So she did do a little bit of a review of the company, our products, our services, the website, marketing materials, and things like that, and wrote up a little bit of a plan with some recommendations. Some things are incredibly basic, for example, put plus six, one in front of your mobile phone, you know, if you're always quoting Australian stats, or use blogging strategy a lot, like can't just have all Australian content. So from our recommendations, we changed a few things. And she's, you know, testimonials is really big, you know, that sort of social proof. So getting more recommendations on LinkedIn testimonials on the website. But with the blogging strategy, sort of, okay, well, what's the countries maybe that we might want to work in, and what's locations that you want to travel to, as often tend to put in mini breaks and other things around this. So I brainstormed a list of those countries or locations. And then I've worked with VA, virtual assistant teams for a long time. So they do a lot of research then around that. And then we form up blogs and posts and that then immediately internationalized as your website content changes your SEO, it gives people the understanding that you have more of a global perspective. So that's one simple thing.

Daniel Franco:

So that is the perception thing, isn't it? Once you've seen to be international people start. Yeah, confidence grows in your Yeah.

Wendy Perry:

And then because you're talking about it with people, you know, so the reaction would be oh, you know, I didn't know that your company was going down that path, I thought that you were just you know, doing stuff locally, or nationally. And then people, it's always about getting in the forefront of people's minds. So there's one guy that we've worked with, since 2013. Till now, who basically, was the gatekeepers, I originally thought, how on earth are you going to build these networks in all these different countries? Like it just seems impossible was blowing my

Daniel Franco:

mind right now? Yeah. But

Wendy Perry:

the key that I realized is that people in my Australian network are really doing this work, and can recommend or open the door for you, and they've got their networks. So you don't have to necessarily go directly straight out to that other country when nobody knows you. Yeah. And if you get that warm introduction, it's like anything but in an international context. It's so powerful. And because I work in that area of education, entrepreneurship, innovation development, that network internationally is quite small actually. So when you get to know a couple of people in Australia, and there's one guy he wins all the work for his organization, from Department of Foreign Affairs and the Australian Government, and he's an amazing fellow. He's such a fantastic role model. He then called me up on it was like, Christmas safe. I was at home with the Girls were like, cooking getting ready. And like he's, you know, he calls me up sees that I did not scream this call. And I'm like, Ah, you know, interesting that you're calling how are you? And he's like, Wendy fantastic. But I've got a couple of things I want to talk to you about. Okay. You guys. We've got a couple of projects coming out. Would you be interested in working in the Maldives? And in Bhutan? I'm like, yes, yes.

Daniel Franco:

Yes. Yeah.

Wendy Perry:

Absolutely. So it was really through him initially.

Daniel Franco:

Yeah. Wow. And are you? Okay, so next step is how do you then actually work there? Yeah, you fly over there? What is it always rely on us, you have to employ people like what is the

Wendy Perry:

depends upon what it is. But often it is, you know, you there is a level of who you are and what your expertise is. If you're in a knowledge based business, yeah. Right. So if you're the lead, you know, if you're the Managing Director, or your lead expert, or consultant, you can have other team members for sure. But internationally, particularly in some Asia, Pacific regions, and countries, they want you because you're the you're the you're the managing that you're the top person, right. So this is our second best. That's it. So that's something you got to definitely sort of manage. And, you know, obviously, through the pandemic, things have changed, but I was going to, and not just my other team members, too, we were traveling a lot internationally. So these sort of projects we're involved in typically involve an in country immersion with people could be representatives of the government or heads of industry, or like entrepreneurship entrepreneurs from that country. And you're just meeting them. I mean, you do as much prep and understand and research as you possibly can. But there's nothing like being there. So, and I've never been to the Maldives, or Bhutan, for example.

Daniel Franco:

I'm sure it wasn't that

Wendy Perry:

fascinating sort of context. So like in the Maldives, for example, I went to Marlow, which is the capital city is only a two by 1k. Island, you can literally say across the whole island, and it's strongly Muslim, there's no alcohol there. At the time, it was relatively gender, like strong gender line. So the women weren't not as well supported, perhaps. I mean, they had significant job roles and things. But you know, the men would often dominate the conversation, this sort of stuff. Yep. So you've got to learn a lot whilst you're there. And even your dress, when you go to Bhutan, and this is when I was with Nelson, who was a great role model. You know, you, you bow and you put your hands to your knees, if it's somebody important if you go down to your ankles, if it's royalty. Now, we met royal family, and when and parliamentarians and ministers, and I didn't wear traditional dress at first in return, but then I tweaked, okay, I think I should. So you know, got some traditional dress and more that. And again, you've got to just be quite self aware about your communication and body language. And it's not like you have to necessarily, there's like rules, because it's all very contextual. So it's not black and white. It's kind of like when you're there. As long as you are open to this in a way you'll pick up on what how you need to behave and what you need to

Daniel Franco:

do. Well, you do what you can to influence right.

Wendy Perry:

Yeah. But also, I guess, in lots of these cultures, you know, there is hierarchy there is things take longer, you know, there's VIPs, there's ways that you've got to acknowledge people and put others definitely before you.

Daniel Franco:

So when you're standing in front of royalty in another country,

Wendy Perry:

yeah, well, actually, I met the prince on the plane, but yeah, I got a selfie. Yeah.

Daniel Franco:

What's going through your head at that point? Yeah. Have I ended up here?

Wendy Perry:

Holy crap. How did I get here? For sure. And you have to pinch yourself sometimes. When we went to the Maldives, we had afternoon tea in the palace, you know, like with advisors and things, and I can't even believe that I'm here. And I'm like, people wouldn't believe it. You know what I mean? Because it just seems so different. Your life is like normally, but because of the sorts of projects that you're involved in, you are kind of you're sort of representing the Australian Government's, I mean, not directly, but you were like a role model there for the country. And so you've got to also be mindful of, you know, how you behave like we went to ambassador's houses and the embassies in Indonesia, for example.

Daniel Franco:

And also, what was the way it was like workforce planning for the country? Is that kind of what you're like? Yeah. So because a lot of our listeners will really understand the whole workforce planning but from a business perspective, not from a country. Yeah.

Wendy Perry:

And I guess its operational level workforce planning, you know, which is a bit more day to day and even like a more sophisticated version of rostering. Then their strategic workforce planning is what what workforce blueprint does? So that's looking at where are we now? Where do we want to be in three 510, sometimes longer time periods, and figuring out the gap. And then what do we do to bridge the gap? So with these projects, some of them are down that line. So with those first ones, it was with the government representatives who wanted to look at the workforce needs for the whole entire country, then we've had heads of industries that are looking at their own sectors, and then contributing that up to a national picture. You know, we've had people representing large corporations as well, where they're looking more at their company. And then, because you're doing work, which is basically we've not got enough people, or we've got too many people that then leads into that whole discussion about entrepreneurship and job creation. So that sort of built over a few years. And then we've had like, top 25 entrepreneurs come multiple years in a row from Indonesia, or from Bhutan, other countries. And that's been more about supporting individual entrepreneurs, but also building ecosystems in other countries and learning from Australia and vice versa. Well, yeah, but I did have this experience when I went to Indonesia for one of these first programs, and we were in Rouen, Bandung this time, and, and to the different companies. But sometimes you can't tell exactly who they are until you get there. And we were doing the kind of like opening session and people were introducing themselves. And I realized that there was a guy there from GoJek. And I don't know if you know, go do it, but it's the number one unicorn company in Indonesia. And it's like, does scooters and things like that, but now they do ticketing massages, as basically any kind of services. Huge. And when that sort of sunk in, and this is, you know, early on in the piece. Goodness, like, we have to completely shift some of the content that we've got here. You know, it was too basic, literally had to change it overnight. Because yes, we did have small, you know, solo entrepreneurs and things there, but they still had massive followings on you know, socials, and then we had the biggest, most impressive, you know, yes, startup in the scale is just, and you know, Indonesia's Turner and 50 million people. So there's lots of they have this 1000 startup program, which means 1000 unicorns, right, so their funnel is huge, to then get to, to this. So, you know, sometimes I have these moments, I'm like, Ah, you know, I really have got to work hard and quick and fast. Yeah, to, to do this. And, you know, kind of, like, draw out that, that expertise. And in the end, we've hosted five or six unicorn companies now. So I got, you know, more twigged into that. But that first experience was was like, Oh, my goodness,

Daniel Franco:

what do you know, everyone's favorite word at the moment, the pivot, right, you're able to pivot on the spot. And

Wendy Perry:

it's like survival. I don't want to look like an idiot or embarrass myself or not run this program to the level that it should be.

Daniel Franco:

Yeah. You get one crack at it. Yeah. And,

Wendy Perry:

you know, they then obviously, talk and network and share feedback. And so that was like a three day kind of immersion that we did there. And then we hosted what we generally host those groups in Australia for a couple of weeks and design the whole program. And again, give them access to people that they would never normally meet. And then go back a couple of months later, because everyone has a project or something like that, that they're working on. And then they pitch down and present that back.

Daniel Franco:

So to recap on going international. Yes, yeah. Look at your existing networks. Yeah, join certain industries and stuff like that forums.

Wendy Perry:

For more like forums, like, for example, I had another opportunity where I was on this UNESCO UNIVAC Forum, which is the United Nations. And there'll be in any industry sector, there'll be kind of like more like internationalized forums and networks and E News and stuff like that, that people can get. And I saw this post, which was like, Oh, hey, we're gonna run this entrepreneurial leadership program, in Bonn in Germany, you know, leaders from around the world applied for it. And I reached out to the guy who was running it and said, hey, you know, are you interested? Do you need some facilitators and are you interested? I saw that you were looking for this certain the other and sort of, you know, put myself forward and I ended up getting that opportunity right. So they flew me to Bonn in Germany, you know, you're at the UN HQ with the view over the Rhine working with all these

Daniel Franco:

amazing because I think most people me being really speaking on my own behalf. I look at those international stuff and go yeah, there's no chance so what's the point,

Wendy Perry:

but you know, one fun that we apply for Nobody else from Australia applied for. Right. So you it's I know it's counterintuitive because you think everyone's going for it. It's they are not. So if you see these opportunities, you have far more competition locally and nationally than internationally. Yeah. It's bizarre, but it's how it works.

Daniel Franco:

Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah. I want to dive into the entrepreneurial mindset, something you work with a lot of your entrepreneurs with people starting, and you've got to start growing. Start switched out to that scale. Sorry, I'm just trying to get my S's in there. Yeah. Some will come up, come someone comes up with a great idea. They want to start a business. Yep. Entrepreneurship and increase starting your business is not for the faint hearted, it is a tough gig. If especially if you are looking to scale and grow team and have people and human beings work with you and partner with you. It can be you know, the ups and downs, I often say to people, you can have one of the best days and worst days in your business in the same day, like the ups and downs. It's just crazy the way it throws, throws these, you know, these curveballs at you all the time. Yeah, what? What is your advice for someone wanting to start a business first and foremost? And secondly, how do we develop the entrepreneur, entrepreneur mindset? Is it for everyone?

Wendy Perry:

Like it potentially can be like, I always see things as glass half full and positive. And if somebody wants to do that, you know, I don't think that you're just born with it or anything like that, I do think you can develop yourself down that path. But you definitely have to be committed, and you have to be humble, and you have to learn a lot. So I think that anybody potentially could pursue an idea and make it happen. But there's some fundamental things that you have to you have to kind of do so because I met with people that it could be still a business idea, or there could be startup or scale up. Sometimes people have a concept. But they've not done any validation or testing whatsoever. Or maybe they've started and got going, but they've got stuck. And often it is about their confidence to like self imposters massively real and they talk themselves out of things. And I frequently have clients tell me, I just don't know what's the steps or what I should prioritize or where they should spend their time, energy and effort. And that's often because they don't have any other outside kind of support or influences. They just think it's going to somehow magically come from the brain as to what they should do, which it doesn't. So I sort of believe in having like structure and a plan and logical practical steps. So when I work with people, we do like this A to Zed action plan, and we look at everything related to their idea, their business, and then we figure out what their priorities are going to be. Now, if they're already up and running, like number one, always sales, always sales. And I've definitely observed people that have got unusual beliefs sometimes about money, like, Am I worthy? Or can I ask for this amount? Or what should I be charging? Like, there's a whole thing that goes on in people's brains? Yeah, about that value discount themselves discount themselves, or? Yeah, think that other people are better though, compare themselves a lot. So you know, you've got to have ways of controlling that. Because it can get out of control, and it will destroy you. You've got to have people around you that are going to support you. Like sometimes I meet people and even their partner thinks that what they're doing is a joke. And then kids make fun of them or whatever. Right? So that's never going to be Yeah. But it's also reinforced that really meanly and directly, like what you're doing is crap kind of thing. So you've got to think about it. Yes. You know, your networks and who's gonna say Well,

Daniel Franco:

absolutely, it's an interesting point, because everyone else is putting their fears onto you. And you're then taking that on.

Wendy Perry:

Yeah, and mostly it is risk based about money when you boil it down, you know, that's Can you still contribute to the household you know, these sorts of questions,

Daniel Franco:

which basically well because you're saying the first and foremost is about sales right? And I say the same thing get kid the clients in get the product out, sell as much as you can. And then worry about all the back end in sales is a dirty word though. Yeah, people don't want to sell on purpose driven I'm this I'm that there's all these sort of cliches that they use. The ultimate goal is to sell your product is not so figure out a way in which you can and connected to a purpose. Yes, yeah, for

Wendy Perry:

sure. And you got if you say for example, you do want to reinvest in other purposeful activities. We gotta have money coming in. It's not that you are overly focused on money either, because then people will think you're an idiot, right? You have to be really balanced about this just gives you options. Yeah, well, people have to still want to see a need to buy your thing, whatever your thing is, you know, you still have to be serving clients, and there has to be a need for it. And, and not just a neighbor want, there has to be a problem for sure. But the market has to be ready for it too. And if you are confused about that, or if you're a bit standoffish about that, it'll come across, and people won't have confidence in you. Or you know, your products or services.

Daniel Franco:

So is the idea then, so you're going back to the entrepreneur mindset. Step number one, learn sales. Is that kind of what you're saying, or, or find ways to sell? Where do we start?

Wendy Perry:

I mean, sounds of value, like somehow provide value? Yeah, you know, ideally, yes, of course, you're going to get money sort of side of it. I mean, heaps of people that I met with to don't have a budget or a plan necessarily around that either. In some respects, that can come a little bit kind of later, I guess, because you still have to go through those validation if he's really early stage, right. But even if whatever business you're doing, there still has to be a component of sales, even if it's focused around things that are non profit or whatever, there still has to be an element, relationships based or whatever. But you know, in my business I'm, I've got a mix of clients. So with workforce blueprint, it's more b2b or business to government in switch, start scowl, it's more business to consumer or client. So you can always have those with the relationships with business to business and business, the government, yes, you have those ongoing connections with, you can't have a personal relationship, necessarily what your customers and consumers so that'd be practical about these things. Do make it easy to buy, as well, like so many people make it hard to buy from buy from them get through a loophole or buy something from either get acquired or proposal or it's got to go back multiple times, or you can't find it easy enough on the website, you don't have a shop, you know, so

Daniel Franco:

what is the common pitfall that you see from from some of the entrepreneurs that you work with, and what holds them but what holds most people back,

Wendy Perry:

there's kind of like one thing that's about them. And another thing that's about their idea or their business, so definitely that confidence, most people understate themselves every now and again, you'll come across somebody really cocky. And you know, people won't like them anyway. But most people understate themselves and they're not confident in their ability, and they shoot themselves in the foot, and they even verbalize this to themselves, that are you know, you shouldn't be doing this or somebody is better or whatever. On the product service experience side, it's the validation, people don't get the thing quick enough to a cheaper and easier version of it to test it out, then they might put it out there and they're listened to advice, by were saying before, that's not even from somebody that's ever gonna, you know, use your product or use your service. So they go down rabbit holes, because somebody over here suggested, you know, to try this strategy or whatever. So it's evidence based validation, that that is true, that is reliable, that is coming from, you know, an appropriate sort of source. Yeah.

Daniel Franco:

How much emphasis do you put on the personal growth aspect of entrepreneurship in the consistent development of self throughout this because you know, you can you can dive into business and really want to grow and you might have a good product, you might have something that people want to buy. Yeah, but the further and further you get in it, the hotter and hotter it gets, right, because there's more aspects, you know, we're hustling every single day, there's so many things that you need to do productivity then falls because you're just figuring you just answering emails all day long, as opposed to actually getting sales out the door. So all these things come into play. Yeah, but actually developing yourself and growing yourself and, and spending time with a coach or spending time watching YouTube video or whatever it might be reading books, we're big readers here at Synergy IQ. So we read the copious amount of books you're learning, as well as implementing and executing Is that something that you put a lot of emphasis in?

Wendy Perry:

Yeah, and look, this is related to whatever people's personal learning styles are, as well, because some people might enjoy theory or reflection or more practical things. And so there's no question like learning and mastery of skills is important and that is an ongoing kind of process. But I have seen examples where people distract themselves from the real world by doing too much of that as well

Daniel Franco:

yeah, really read the book never started a business

Wendy Perry:

exactly. I watch all these videos or you know, even listen to all these podcasts or they do these programs analysis paralysis. Yeah. So, like, yes, you have to consider Your ongoing development, but it's got to be like, I always think about it from a learning needs analysis, training needs analysis base. And look, there could be 30 things that you could do, but you don't have the time, energy and effort for that. So what are the top priority things that will get you the best kind of return? Return on that? And similar to things like networking and events? So, like, I do go to a lot, right. But that's because of the sort of work and role that I have. And I host tapes of them. But sometimes I see people going and stuff and like, why are you even going there? Like, you can go to some networking events for friendship and connection and support? That's valid. Yeah. But if you're not going to enough events, or not in enough networks, where your actual customers and clients are, like, what do you what do you have? Why are you doing that, you know, you're doing it for some other kind of purpose. And maybe that's again, a bit of a way to step back from that sales or whatever

Daniel Franco:

was this thing is just really as figuring out who your typical avatar is, or the persona that you're trying to, if you if you're targeting the C suite, for example, and you're going to sort of random catch ups, networking drinks sort of thing? Yeah, there is a bit of time wasting. So how do you get into the rooms with the executive team? Yeah. Do you start off with those lower in networking? And then move your way up? Or do you just like,

Wendy Perry:

maybe depends how confident you are, like, you know, networking definitely is a core capability that you're gonna have to have, if you're, if you're starting up a business, or you're the leader of your business, absolutely. You know, how to have good conversations, how to listen, how to be focused on the other person, not yourself. Not to be cocky and arrogant. Most things, we just see people just avoid them person, you've got to still give value first, and you can't expect that something you're not going to, you're not going to sell, you know, meeting somebody for the first time. And that would be offensive, even if you tried to do that. So for practice, and for development, perhaps there is some networks that you might go to. And I always think it's important. Even I was doing a lot of international work, I still kept round grounded in more like a local regional network, too. So but I guess what I'm saying is, you know, regardless of what you do automation, technology wise, and all your systems, you still only have a limited amount of time and energy to put into things. And so you've got to think through, how do you how do you chop your wake up? Sometimes I have conversations with clients, and they'll be like, Can I just talk to you about how I am spending my time and how I have got my calendar working? And and then I show them mine? And then you know, I block out even dinner with the kids. Yeah, yeah. So

Daniel Franco:

yeah. Oh, this is very topical. At the moment. I am very much in that space of learning how to be more productive and use my calendar to the point where I'm, you know, even putting in my calendar now when I go for a run with something. Yeah, I

Wendy Perry:

do that for sure. Yeah.

Daniel Franco:

It's not something that I run. But yeah, well, yeah, it's more about, it's something that I'm trying to evolve. Because I was, I've always been the type of person that just rocked up and did any thinking just kind of, you know, whoever scream the loudest, or jump out and just do that first. So really utilizing your time. I know that you do a lot in that space. And you mentioned before the four to one. Yeah. Can you give us a little bit of insight what that looks like. So from a productivity point of view at any hacks, you might, yeah, for

Wendy Perry:

sure. So like a really practical exam, we do a webinar, right, you're going to record it, you are going to then obviously do a follow up email and send that recording out, you might share it on social media as well, you're going to get it transcribed, you're going to turn it into an e book, you might chop it up and turn it into blogs, the video content you might repurpose for an online program. So that's the sort of thing that I mean. Yeah, and even, like, I've got a client and she's just published a book. So she used her podcast got a episodes transcribed. That's the chapters of a book. So I've helped people figure out what's the best way to use this fourth one, like if you get more than four out of it, yeah, you would do even something like an E News right? You might do an email in use that you might do monthly perhaps because you want consistency and communication, you're then going to chop that up for social media, you're probably going to have a blog that you also include in your news, you know, so you're going to think about ways that you can repurpose and reuse content multiple times over one of the things about your calendar and your time like I wasn't like this at first like I was pretty resistant. But now I have a mindset of outsourcing first and that's completely changed so much so

Daniel Franco:

so from a VA point of view or Wow or

Wendy Perry:

I use yeah I use VA is but you have the change of mindset like at first my husband Scott saying you're just doing too much. Let's try Out of he is like 15 or more years ago and like, just don't think that you're good enough? To do it the way I want to do it. Yeah, exactly what am I gonna get them to do? Anyway, we found somebody through one of those sites and interviewed them. And they did 20 hours worth for free. It was databases, I think the task was and few other bits and pieces related to social research. And their work was outstanding. We paid them of course, but you know, over the years, we've then use them and their team, they've got up to 20 people at a time for us, depending upon different projects. But what you do is you think through, okay, I've got these projects coming up these events, these programs, opportunities, so you know, we want to write these blogs, we're gonna have this content, and you get the VAs to do all that ground research first. Because you don't want to use your time or one of your team members time doing that, that kind of work. So the sort of things that are to be a team does is they look at Google Alerts, things it's appropriate to repurpose for our social media. They've developed databases. For us say we get a project, like maybe just recently, we did a project related to all we were researching project related to hydrogen, so they do all the research from around the world ride that topic. Or maybe we're doing a workforce plan related to a town or a region. So they'll do they'll do that. Maybe we've got events coming up with switched out scouts. So you know, things like setting up the zoom, the event brush, you know, the Facebook event? Yeah. So if you can think about that first. Because you're always going to be $1 value, you know, way about, yeah, these sorts of kind of admin tasks, and even your team members are. So it's like, if you can put yourself into that zone, then your efficiency just becomes, you know, nuts.

Daniel Franco:

Yeah. Yeah, really? Yeah. from a, from a diary point of view, how did you how did you get to that point where you managed to diary to, to the level of, you know, booking in time with the kids? Yeah.

Wendy Perry:

And one daughter doesn't like that. Can't send her a meeting request. The other ones fine. I don't know how many years I've done this for now. But I mean, I essentially use Google Calendar, and recurring tasks in there. And then I normally see clients for at least three days a week, and then I block out some, you know, office catch up kind of time, and then more like some development, either business development or personal development. And then there's events and things.

Daniel Franco:

So what does that look like? If from a? From

Wendy Perry:

like alley blocks? Yeah, yeah. So

Daniel Franco:

booked out three days for clients? Yeah. And then it's one one client per hour, one client per hour, and the end all in the same space? Like how do you? How do you manage the locations? Like if you do if you're Are you going to each of the clients site? Or are they coming to you?

Wendy Perry:

Normally coming to me depends with workforce blueprint, I'm normally going there. So then I'll put travel when we put travel time either side. Yeah, okay. I do have a low Australian based personal assistant as well. And which I only did more recently, maybe in the last year or two, because the biggest stress that I had in my life was email. So I get like a ridiculous number of emails. So she set up a really systematic column, not column folder, system and automatic responses and roles. And now I only have to look at a small number of urgent or actionable emails, as opposed to the other things that are more for noting or reading or whatever. So. And she also looks at my calendar, I have we switched out scour, my calendar is publicly up on the website, and we use Calendly. And people booking either online or face to face. And then you know, if there's travel time, or that gets booked out,

Daniel Franco:

yeah, I use the I use the online meeting tool through our CRM. Yeah, and the one thing that frustrates me with it is that people can book random times, right? You're given timeframes in between, then I might have a meeting at nine o'clock, for example. And then someone else books in for for 11 o'clock. And then no one will book in that middle piece. And so kind of sitting around for two hours, and I'm not very productive within those two hours, because so I really find that I prefer to manage my own diary. So I can really put him block him in certain way. I'm still trying to work this out.

Wendy Perry:

Well, I think we switch Tasker because it's a different sort of service. You know, people can book in for the one hour coaching and mentoring online or face to face, they can choose, they got the options. They can do 15 minutes, and they can do 30 minutes, actually, as well. When it's more business development. Say for example, we've got some clients at the moment that are councils that want to do workforce planning. Yeah, we're gonna go to them and you know, that's going to be more an email conversation back and forth to find a time Yeah, but in my calendar, I've still got a chunk booked out for that kind of thing. Yeah. And And at first when I got cleanly Yeah, I wasn't good about the travel and stuff like that. Yeah, mess it up at first takes a little bit time to get used to it.

Daniel Franco:

Yes. So what is this, there's an art to it.

Wendy Perry:

Yeah, and I was definitely a beginning probably having too many people booking. So then I'm pulled that back to chunking time,

Daniel Franco:

how important it is to work on the strategy and go back and do that office work and really just concentrate on the future focus in the plans and one, the three to five year plans, all that sort of stuff. You talked about being being a leader within your own business, it's about thinking strategically, how much time and effort do you put into that weekly?

Wendy Perry:

Well, again, I'm not sure if I would carve this out specifically, because it happens often, sometimes it happens in formal times, like when you are during reviewing quarterly, or, you know, in the end, often go away to do strategic planning, like some location. So there's that, but I think it happens in other moments, like when you are driving, or you are waiting for somebody or you are transitioning sort of thing. That's how my brain works. Yeah. So, you know, I definitely read a lot and follow a lot of other people too, on social media and stuff like that. So with a workforce blueprint, the focus is the future all the time, the future of job skills, and work. And naturally, your mind just sort of sits there, perhaps because of the sort of person that you are and the personality, and you're always looking horizon and what's coming next. But you're working forms that too, you know, because if you're working in that space, you get all these kinds of inputs that you would never normally get about what that picture is kind of look like looking like. So you need some processing time time for that. But I guess, yeah, you've got to have some, you know, formal time set aside, I think, those regular review periods, and then, you know, a couple of days, normally each year for that, you know, longer term strategic planning,

Daniel Franco:

how do you manage the the the best way I'm trying to think of putting this is the approval of the action. Essentially, I've tried off getting back to people, when people email you is, especially people that you really want to do business with, or work with, or people within your own team, you really want to respond to them as quickly and as precisely as possible. So, instance, you see, the email pops up or someone rings you in your text message, whatever it might be this constant feeling that you need to get back to him. Which can take you away from your day to day right and can take you away from doing more important strategic stuff. And general operations. How do you manage the feeling of the amount of people that you need to get back to because you say your emails coming in the front and center?

Wendy Perry:

Yeah, you get notifications when you finally find face? Yeah, I mean, when you're

Daniel Franco:

off to notifications off, but yeah, even if it if it's a client, or if it's a potential client, or staff or whoever it might be, there's this always constant feeling I need to get back. It's always sitting in the back of my head, I need to get back. I need to get back. I need to get back. How do you manage the feeling of doing that?

Wendy Perry:

This might not suit everyone, but I drive everything to email. So even on my phone, it says don't leave a message. Send me an email. Yeah. Right. Because I did get them. Yes. I mean, I'm not great at listening to my phone and responding to people. But also, if I've got clients, like, it's just not possible, you know, so, you know, I drive all the message to email. And then because I know my personal assistant, is there daily, she's sorting through stuff anyway. And then I know that only you have to have a look at certain things. So I would expect to get back to people 2448 hour kind of period.

Daniel Franco:

Do you do email that to them? Do you say?

Wendy Perry:

No, I don't I just think that's a expectation. If somebody thinks that you need to get back to them within an hour or two or even same day. Now, I think that's a bit tricky. And maybe it's more about what's coming from them rather. So sometimes we put other people's expectations on our Yeah. So it's

Daniel Franco:

funny, I had a conversation with friends and family the other day, and we're all in disagreement. Me everyone was in disagreement with my theory on this. If someone rings you, and leaves and you miss the call, yeah. I 99% of the people in the room that I was talking to said that it is an expectation that the person is to call back.

Wendy Perry:

No, not if they don't leave a mess. Correct. And that was exactly my argument. Yeah, thank you very much. Definitely not.

Daniel Franco:

I'm gonna replay

Wendy Perry:

all the time at scammers. Well, that

Daniel Franco:

was it. But if you know that, I don't know if you know if you know, um, you should call them back. No. explanation. Yeah.

Wendy Perry:

So don't leave a message and then because of the voicemail that I've got set up, people will send me an email anyway. Absolutely

Daniel Franco:

brilliant. Anyway, we go on down to semantics. You talked about the future of work and looking more in So longevity new workforce blueprint you are doing, you know, looking further forward, the future of work right now it's up in the air, we got job shortages left, right and center, we got people screaming for work, people stealing and one is poaching. Poaching, left, right and center. We've got big companies coming from overseas, saying we're going to set up 1000 jobs, only to take away from the small, the smaller theme. So they're not really they're not really creating jobs. They're stealing jobs. Well, poaching, I should say that they're they're robbing Peter to pay Paul. So you've got all these problems in the world at the moment, specifically in I'm talking specifically Australia had two questions to come out of this. Yeah. What is the future of work look like at this pandemic? Yeah. And secondly, where are we gonna get more people these people from Yeah,

Wendy Perry:

the future of work is still very human focus, right? Even though we might use all of these different technologies, and so on. And we'll see much more of a crossover, for example, there's a company that's been working for a number of years on humanoid, humanoid robots. And they're out of the US and out of New Zealand. And a lot of companies have kind of picked up like, banks have picked them up, emergency services and so on, right, but they still have to be programmed and trained at this stage by human right. So that's just a complete reality. And in fact, we are going to have to go more before the pandemic, we probably thought we're being dragged down his automation path with some people being a bit resistant toward because they thought that people would lose jobs. Now we're in a situation that if we don't maximize that automation, because we already don't have enough people for the jobs, particularly in a Western developed context, we should probably say that we need automation to work even better for us. And for that to be amped up even more, because we just can't feel the jobs that we have vacant at the moment. Now, we're sitting in Adelaide, South Australia, at the moment not locked down, there'll be people listening, I'm sure from other places where the perspective would be different because of the context of being locked down and seeing lots of businesses struggling. But post lockdown, and post pandemic, all the signs are indicating a massive boom. And even in our state we have already experienced because we had more of a lighter touch experience. Perhaps it's around Coronavirus, we weren't locked down for so long, we've already seen evidence of those booms happening. So the situation for us and perhaps, maybe a state like wa for example, is massive skills and labor shortages, literally across every sector. And in regions it is acute, right. So we have to have a picture that involves much more automation and technology just to handle that. In terms of getting more people. There's a lot of latent capacity in our current labor pool that we are not tapping into. And employers industry, you know, we're going to have to be much more broad minded about where we're going to get people from. So because I bought us a shot at the moment, like often we would use a skilled migration, even a backpacker workforce or whatever, to give us some room to move. And that's not an option for us at the moment. So that's causing pain in very particular sectors. But there are cohorts where we could do way more. For example, women who are mothers, right, there are lots of women who are out of the workforce at the moment, since, you know, thorny issue about childcare and wash and other support, but there's Layton capacity, basically, if we could do something to engage mothers in more flexible kind of work arrangements. And to manage those caring responsibilities. There's definitely more capacity working with people with disabilities, Aboriginal indigenous people, absolutely, there is two. And there's another perspective, which is kind of like culturally based as well. You know, when you work with in a business and industry context, you're networked in a particular way, when it comes to these other cohorts that we're talking about people from coming from culturally diverse backgrounds, then network more in a community, friendship family way. So we've got to get our heads around if you're looking to, to recruit people to fill those vacancies, how to kind of like partner up with those leaders of those different, you know, communities and, you know, groups and whatever to tap into that latent capacity as well. But still, we're going to have to increase our population for sure. And when it comes to regions, I mean, there's just some jobs that you can't not do by going to the place. I think

Daniel Franco:

when the region's you told me some, I think it was you tell me the statistic the other day, 1000 people in one community? Oh, well,

Wendy Perry:

one town has 1000 population, they have 100 jobs. 100. So that is available, available now. Yeah, that's crazy. Then guess what the number one job is regionally that's in demand. What's that? Cleaner? Really? Yeah. I don't know, if you have a clean? I mean, I do. It's hard to get a cleaner.

Daniel Franco:

We've just had one, it's the best thing. I can't wait any hard to

Wendy Perry:

get them though. It's really hard. What you know, it's hard to get cleaners, pool cleaners, gardeners, maintenance people trades, right? So we, in other countries, like in Europe, for example, they the EU, the European Commission has a whole labor mobility strategy, about the way that people kind of like, move around. And obviously, it's been changed over pandemic times. But that's something that's coming back on the ball again. So we have to think more about workforce development strategies that allow flexibility of work, labor, mobility, and definitely tap into these underrepresented groups that have got significant capacity there. But maybe we're just not seeing it,

Daniel Franco:

how do we tap into them? Those who just like door knocking? What is yeah, what is the option? applying for jobs, then how do you

Wendy Perry:

they might be applying for jobs. So there's one side of it, where maybe the way they're applying for jobs is not matching the criteria, or there's some screening out or there. So on that supply side, we definitely have to do more work for people to understand what the jobs are, and to get them representing themselves in the best way possible, with their resumes applications and that sort of thing? Because that's half the battle, isn't it? Yeah, like I see over here. So there's many programs and initiatives, you know, coming out around that sort of side of things. The other thing is, like I was mentioning about how people are network, their network through family and friends and community groups are kind of like country based associations. So that is how you have to tap into those pools of people. And that does take time. But you've got to build up relationships with those key leaders in those communities, or people that might already have, you know, a group of mothers, for example, that are connected for another kind of purpose. So it's different. It's not a business in industry, way of thinking about how we network it is more of a family, friends, community based way of doing

Daniel Franco:

so going back to the entrepreneurs, right, and talking about a switch that scale, you're working with entrepreneurs to switch that and then scale their business. So as they're scaling, they're going through this growth, they're working on their growth strategy executing a growth strategy in amongst that I need to have a recruitment strategy, right? Yeah, we're in a world that we are in today, where there is a skill shortage, how do you manage the both where and where do you put most of your time, and you can't grow without people? There's not enough people to grow. So do you sit in limbo headed to here?

Wendy Perry:

Well, you outsource everything that you possibly could, yeah, right. And not just locally, but internationally as well. Then you think about the way that you structure up to specific job

Daniel Franco:

roles. So outsource recruitment, or you talking about outsource, outsource the tasks,

Wendy Perry:

but not the not the not the core, did I make my admin the incident, the kind of time consuming tasks, right, so if you you, because you want to do this Lean still in terms of scaling up, so whatever you can outsource and get off your, your team's plate, you will sort of do that, then you're thinking about how you're structuring up those job roles in the mindset of who you want to attract. And like you'd have to have much more flexibility from an employer point of view about the way that you're thinking about start time, finish time hours, you know, flexible kind of work arrangements and packages, definitely working from home is here to stay forever. Yeah, you know, sometimes can't be done that way. So you've got to think through the way to best structure that if you are looking at other diverse pools of people, that people with disability, for example, then the job role needs to fit much more around them, you know, and their strengths. So we've got to sort of flip our thinking a little bit and not just think, okay, we're going to put this job out. And we're going to, you know, have this start and finish time, this is what the contract is going to look like. It's much more of a negotiation. And we see the attraction side of things, particularly for a smaller company or a startup, like probably all of us could think of times when we've seen one person wreak havoc in an organization, and it's just destroyed. Everybody, and you know, and the work and the relationships and the narcissist, a values match has to be key, and it can't just be has to be more like an evidence based approach to that values match. And I guess you've got to think through a bit like the avatar of the target market, but more detail about who is it that you really specifically want to attract? We're going to find them or more people like that if you want that kind of, you know, style in your business, and then you've got to be way more open and flexible, as an employer, thinking through how you're going to structure that. I mean, we probably are going to see significant increases in pay rates and you know, what people are expecting? Yes, the shortages. It's an

Daniel Franco:

interesting comment, because he talked about when I said before, some of these big companies coming over here and poaching. They're offering wages that the smaller businesses cannot To sign up cannot afford to, but not necessarily can't afford. They've got it fixed in their head that I'm not paying that. I'm not paying someone first year at a union that much when the big companies are, is it? Is it a matter of the smaller companies changing their mindset? And actually just accepting it? Or is it? Do we hold on to where

Wendy Perry:

we're at? But you're gonna have constraints around your resources, right? If you if you're in that scale up mode. So I guess you've got to really be clear about who is it that you want to attract? And money is always part of the equation. But for some people, it's not the be all and end all. So again, it's a match on that values and that alignment, what else do people care about? And they will choose, you know, this startup, because they're going places over a multinational, where they're just like, you know, the million employee or

Daniel Franco:

whatever? Yeah, yeah. What, what is your biggest concern for the next five years? In the in the job in the world of work?

Wendy Perry:

Well, I think this picture that's emerging at the moment, there's a few things in the short term, and in the longer term, with the whole discussions and not to get too political, but around vaccines and whatever. I think there is certainly like division happening in workplaces, and we can

Daniel Franco:

already hear it the vaccinated versus the unvaccinated. Yeah. And

Wendy Perry:

sort of, you know, emerging last year thinking this is going to be something that HR and you know, OD and training managers and workplace health and safety and CEOs are going to have to take more seriously around that. So yeah, that's a it's like, because it's not just a business thing, you know, or a company thing. It's a personal thing. So that crossover is really, really tricky. This picture now of merging of labor and skill shortages in Australia, and lots of other developed countries are reporting something similar. I don't think that we expected this. After the pandemic, we thought, oh, you know, a number of people lose their job. And then there'll be a big pool of people to draw upon. But what's happened is significant shift shifts between industry sectors, and a lot of people have reprioritized work really around, my family is more important, my health more important, I want to do something that's lasting, that's different or whatever. So it's not, I mean, I always see things as opportunities. Right. So I think, structurally, there'll be many industry sectors that will have to the almost like, won't have a choice really just shift the boundary force. Yeah, there'll be forced, because they don't, they don't have another option. What I would want to make sure that we do see is that we are more inclusive with diverse sectors and people and a more thoughtful about that, in terms of recruitment and attraction strategies and retention. And you know, the way that sort of structure work up, and I guess the other thing that is, is an opportunity is just thinking more globally and internationally, like how can we have how can we tap into other resources? How can we have a bigger impact? How can we say, from an entrepreneurial point of view, like, I'd love to see more companies playing on a bigger stage on a world stage than what they are at the moment and people with a more open mind to that kind of opportunity?

Daniel Franco:

If if Scott Morrison knocked on Wendy Perry's door, yeah, and said, I need help with the workforce in Australia. Yeah. What's one piece of information that you give him,

Wendy Perry:

we need a vision for the workforce. But I can't believe that we haven't, we probably haven't had a vision for the workforce in any way, shape, or form for at least 15 or more years. So we used to have one that was kind of related a bit more to the education sector.

Daniel Franco:

So what is the vision look like for the workforce, it is

Wendy Perry:

some sort of statement about you know, in, so we would pick a timeframe that is sensible and logical. Yeah. And I think we can't go too far out, because it's just not practical to do that, because there's lots of things outside of our control. But there is a particular process when we're doing workforce planning that we go through around scenario planning that makes these things more concrete. So we might pick, you know, 2025, or 2030, or something like that, and talk about the version of the workforce, the picture that we kind of want, and we make it as real as we possibly can. And that considers all the drivers and the external factors and the things that are we're in or out of control of. But at the moment, we don't have a clear vision that is consolidated that you No more No, multiple stakeholders agree to we haven't had that picture for a long time. And it's interesting when you do international work, because you will see developing nations that you know, have got far less resources than us that do have these sort then they've had them like in place for 30 or 40 years or something and they update them regularly. So definitely envision, you know, for our workforce, you know, picking a timeframe that we can get, you know, common ground

Daniel Franco:

Is it hard to have a vision for the workforce? You know, we often hear this statement of it's really, really difficult. You know, my children are nine and seven, two girls nine and seven. Yeah. And it's really difficult to talk to them about what the future of work looks like, because that their job may not have even been created yet. Right? So when we have this vision about the future, you know, talking 2030 years, yeah, my brain can't even comprehend. Like, you know, if you look back 10 years ago, then it wasn't even around all of a sudden, Uber is just taking over the world who actually goes to a restaurant anymore, and picks up the food I don't. It's Uber Eats, and only that's the only way I work. So those sorts of things is really interesting to me. So we have this vision, but we're almost visioning something that we don't know exists, or is that just the way it's always been?

Wendy Perry:

What you sort of touched on my pet hate, because I can't stand it when people say we know what are we training these people for their jobs that haven't been created yet? I cannot stand that statement. Because I feel like it's partly a cop out. And actually, it's not true. We have got heaps of evidence and information about what that picture is looking like. But there's another side to this, right. And this came about when we were doing a project specifically in the defense sector. And we're working with all these defense primes and like, Okay, what's the defense work workforce? This is the supply side chain, not Defense Forces gonna look like in five years time? And yeah, people Yes. pushback resistance? Not what if you don't know it? Who bloody knows it? Yeah. So we went through this process to shape up what that will look like. And you know why it was because they defined it, that they then work towards it. And that's what they got, right. And similarly, we've done workforce plans for regional towns that have been on the lowest socio economic levels that you can imagine, by the worst unemployment, the worst language literacy and numeracy, no opportunity. But when you do bring stakeholders and people together to do that picture, it completely flips it. Now, economists will say, No, this is the trend and you can't change that is simply not true. You can change it, but you have to get people around the table that are passionate, that logical that a have some influence to actually make that picture. And, you know, you can make that picture quite concrete, actually. So it's not out of your hands or out of your control at all, it's completely within your control. So there's an element enemy of control, there's a little bit of an element out of your control. I mean, there might be other world factors as

Daniel Franco:

the majority's we kind of know. So yeah, just on that, then do you believe that the gig economy is something that is going to be on the road?

Wendy Perry:

Yeah, for sure. Like the the kind of, you know, portfolio of work that people have now and that your kids are going to have like, they're going to have a side hustle or side business or a gig thing, they might be employed by somebody else as well. They might pursue a passion project to or you know, contribute through not for profit, social enterprise, like the mix of things will be more

Daniel Franco:

be corpse look like then how do you how, what is the CEO work on going to be paid lots of money for that? So saying, what is the CEO work on when the majority of this stuff? Are geeking? Out? They almost consulting to the company themselves? Is that what you're? Or am I completely missing the mark here?

Wendy Perry:

I think you're sort of combining two things, which is sort of saying about corporates, then you know, people that working for corporates, gigging for that corporate, I think that people will have a mix of roles, that they're sort of playing in a mix of incomes. And partly, it's because like a risk management thing, really, yeah. But also, because you do want to pursue things. Now from a corporate point of view. You know, often you need to have more inside information about specific industry sectors. Because some of the markets are really complex that you're sort of operating in. And, but if you don't have that vision, then whatever happens, happens, right? And you, you are behind the back foot all the time. And often in a large corporate like that, like imagine the kind of insight that your people have got about what that picture should look like, what your customers and clients have been asking for that they haven't got yet. You know, so often get the question are where is this information going to come from? Or, for example, you know, what's going to keep these people at this company? What What should we do to return? Ask them, ask them? You know, you have to, but yeah, you've got to have that concrete picture. And if it's too fluffy or not defined enough, then people won't understand what they're working towards. There's got to be more collaborative these days. Like it's not just gonna be something that comes down from

Daniel Franco:

Yes, yeah, communication is key, right? Yeah. And you're going to get lots

Wendy Perry:

of ideas if you do a more collaborative approach from people that you would never have uncovered normally.

Daniel Franco:

Brilliant. Just conscious of your time we have over smartly as a couple of one last question. Interested in this hashtag humble hustle, is it you're working on or working with at the moment? It is my

Wendy Perry:

personal hashtag, so I use it a fair bit in social media and that we touched on it before like there always is. hustle that you're always thinking about what's coming next, what's the next opportunity or the project or because of that future perspective, what's on the horizon. But the humble side of it is really about that core belief that we touched on at the very beginning. This is not about you, you know, this is about supporting and helping other people. And you can have hustle, but it can't be harsh, and it can't be too salesy or too direct, it's got to have a humble angle to it. And there's been lots of examples over the years where humble hustle has played out, like, for example, we had one when we had the Indonesian group, we were in this corporate training center in middle of Sydney. And this one guy had a pet care because pet care product company in Indonesia, and we saw that what's the vet that's does the Shark Tank judging, he was in Pepper. Yeah, they were in the building on the same floor and this sort of training room down the end. So humble hustle was when I knocked on their door, hey, you know, I know this is completely out of the blue. But we just wondered if we could introduce this guy to you. And he met the head Sales Manager for the whole country, whatever, and follow them up. So you got to take opportunity, but you've got to be polite, you know, you've got to use your manners. There's some old fashioned things in there. Yeah. You've got to be focused on the other person all the time. I never

Daniel Franco:

understood the the the people who rose to the top who have almost torn every relationship, in part on their way to the top. I never understood how that even works. Because if there is something that I've learned is that people have very long memories, right? So true, people will often give as much as you can, and then that will always and you don't do it for the reason that will come back. We just know the way the universe works. The more you give, the more you receive. Right, it's just give me nature of the human being. Yeah, sorry. Yeah. It always confused me.

Wendy Perry:

I think it comes back to bite them eventually. Like I think we've seen that with

Daniel Franco:

Yes, sleeping people. Probably sleeping with a wide open all the time, isn't it?

Wendy Perry:

Yeah. That have got themselves into trouble, even though it's may have come out years later. Yeah, absolutely.

Daniel Franco:

Right. I will finish off with a few quick fire questions. So I've got I've had probably, I reckon 20 questions that I didn't ask it. We'll have to come back for around. But the quickfire questions, we really is just getting to know a little bit more about you and getting inside your brain suddenly be quirky, but we are be great. As I mentioned earlier, synergy IQ Krasinski podcasts would be known as be great as what's one book that you're reading right now?

Wendy Perry:

Um, it's got F in the title.

Daniel Franco:

Isn't Mike Manson's have asked you before. Yes, yes. Yes. Yes.

Wendy Perry:

I'm rereading. And actually I have it's actually really good. It's good. I'm rereading it. Yeah,

Daniel Franco:

I am. On big fan of that book. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz very straightforward. It's black and white. Yeah. I love it. And what's one book that you feel like this talk about entrepreneurs in general? Yeah. What's one book that you would recommend to them? Or anyone starting off in business? Yeah. As a foundational book.

Wendy Perry:

Blue Ocean Strategy. Yeah, it's brilliant. Yeah, for sure. So don't be in the red. You know? Absolutely. Yeah.

Daniel Franco:

Excellent. I love that one. She listened to any other podcasts? Not many normally know. Just this one, isn't it? You can invite three people for dinner. Oh, yeah.

Wendy Perry:

Who would it be? I really would like to invite Oprah. Because I do have a thing about maybe having a TV shows or something like that.

Daniel Franco:

She's a remarkable. Yeah.

Wendy Perry:

Yeah, I think so. I think Oprah I mean, Julia Gala, because she just lives down the road. And she so yeah, she's at Brighton. So she would say she would have as well. And then I don't know who the third one would be. I'm thinking somebody that's sort of like, UK based. Probably because the more I want to go there. I'd have the excuse to, to go across there.

Daniel Franco:

So the husband, your husband doesn't get the call up.

Wendy Perry:

Every day some Oh, yes. Oh, good. Yeah. I can't think of the third one. Yeah,

Daniel Franco:

that's fine. Yeah, not a problem. What's the best advice that you've received?

Wendy Perry:

The best advice is to like ask for advice first. And I think some of this comes back to my parents as well. We have a family same but having your back. So even though you might be in a tricky situation or with your partner with whomever it might be. We don't then play it out or discuss it in public. We always have each other's back I can do that for the team members and family members and they do it for us.

Daniel Franco:

It's brilliant. If you had access to a time machine, yeah, you could go anywhere. Yeah. But only one trip. So Ford back.

Wendy Perry:

I can't come back. You can't come back. Okay. But you

Daniel Franco:

can only go to one destination.

Wendy Perry:

So I could go forward, I could go back wherever you want. I mean, at first, when you said that, I was thinking, I go back to see Jane Austen times in England. So I love that. I've heard, you know, I probably would go to somewhere like 2050 just to sort of see what it's like and whether or not the things that we think it's gonna be like, actually our

Daniel Franco:

vision, right. So the

Wendy Perry:

workforce workforce plan for 2015? Yeah, we don't know what's happening. Yes, we do. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds good.

Daniel Franco:

Oh, my answer to that is by the almanac.

Wendy Perry:

Yeah, that's exactly. makes money out of it to have an entrepreneur was feeling the bedding. Yeah,

Daniel Franco:

absolutely. If you had one super hero power.

Wendy Perry:

Yeah. What would it be? Oh, this came up the other day. I think invisibility cloak.

Daniel Franco:

Oh, pal. It's a cloak

Wendy Perry:

beam visit. To be nice. Yeah, it's

Daniel Franco:

a bit creepy.

Wendy Perry:

Well, it could be, I guess, sort of thinking more about? Yeah, I like that idea. Because, yeah, perhaps there is a little bit of a listening, you know, whatever. But, you know, just see what really goes on. Yeah. Some of the different circumstances or situation. I'm

Daniel Franco:

thinking all work. Yeah. Be a fly on the wall. Yes, that's right. Yeah. Cuz it'd be hard to open a door in the middle of a meeting.

Wendy Perry:

Yeah, that's right. Maybe then you Yeah, you're gonna be

Daniel Franco:

Have you seen a man? Yeah.

Wendy Perry:

But I just thought that idea of, I don't know, seeing what's really going on, because sometimes I think people have a public persona, or they present things in a particular way. That's not really what's going on.

Daniel Franco:

Yeah, I agree. Yeah. It'd be a few political conversations going on.

Wendy Perry:

Yeah. And I have an interest in politics, too. I'd like to suss out that. Is that the next steps for when he many people have asked me over the years? And I don't I? I think it's too nasty. That's probably why the main reason why I wouldn't do it. Yeah. Is I think it's too nasty in tax people's character, and is a harsh on their relationships in their family. But I wouldn't rule it out completely, but it's a slim chance.

Daniel Franco:

Yeah, I don't see the reason for getting on TV as a politician getting on TV and bagging the other visit, like, yeah, when do we do that in business? We don't ever have a meeting with someone and they just beg every business, the behavior doesn't make sense.

Wendy Perry:

Well, not bad for everyone. But I wouldn't want to do that. Like, I definitely would like to make a difference, you know, beyond business and industry, but I don't know if that's the right way to go.

Daniel Franco:

So what is the next steps for Wendy Perry?

Wendy Perry:

Yeah, definitely in scaling up even my business even more. And you know, we work in about 30 Different countries now that I want to work in, we want to work in more countries. And I think where we'll be now with those labor and skill shortages, there's heaps over the years that we've learned about how to address those. So it used to be a bit of a push to get people to see that this was a real problem. But now the pain of it. It's quite, it's becoming, you know, quite sharp. So I'd love to say, Australia with a vision for their workforce and every industry sector with a plan and regions and towns comfortable that, you know, they know where they're going as well.

Daniel Franco:

So I'll tag skylight in between this.

Wendy Perry:

Oh, yes. He knows who I am. But some of the other Polly's

Daniel Franco:

he knows. But it'd be good. It would be good. Because yes, we do need some vision about where we're going with the future because it is a question that all businesses are asking, right, you and I were very similar industries in the people and culture, HR workforce planning world, and the strip's strategic world. So it's a question that we get asked every single day, what is happening?

Wendy Perry:

Well, and also it can't be a political cycle based thing. You know, it can't just be like whoever's in power.

Daniel Franco:

It has to be a lover for years. It changes. Yeah, it

Wendy Perry:

has to be a longer term picture.

Daniel Franco:

I agree. Yeah. Yes.

Wendy Perry:

Yes. It has to be what we want. Do you know what I mean? Like what's feasible? reasonable, but what we want not what we just get given a grade? Yeah, that's the problem with politics. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. almost total. Yeah. Tell what to do, which wouldn't say

Daniel Franco:

let's not go down that pathway yet. Thank you so much for your time today. It's been amazing having you on and hearing your insights. Thank you for all the work that you're doing to

Wendy Perry:

appreciate it like I'm I just love people like lightbulb moments and people seeing people change their lives, particularly in relation to having their own business like that's what I want to see more people do so I really appreciate the invitation. And it's been really insightful question. That's good, I think yeah,

Daniel Franco:

when half of them so that's great look, I feel like the work you're doing is much needed in this world today, so keep up the good work and kudos to you and the team. Yours. Thank

Wendy Perry:

you so beautiful. Thank

Daniel Franco:

you guys. We'll catch you next time.

Synergy IQ:

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