Katrina Webb is recognised and acknowledged for her success as a Paralympic athlete. She has won Gold, Silver and Bronze medals in athletics at three Paralympic Games.
She was the first torchbearer to enter the Stadium for the Opening Ceremony of the Sydney 2000 Paralympic Games and in 2006 Katrina was selected on behalf of the International Paralympic Committee to speak at the United Nations in New York.
Off the track, Katrina is the Director of Silver 2 Gold High-Performance Solutions which specializes in powering organisations, teams and individuals best.
Katrina is a global ambassador for the International Paralympic Committee and due to her own experience in dealing with a disability and a deep love of helping others, Katrina is the Founder and Director of Newday Leadership a platform to inspire leadership for the greater good.
Katrina Webb is an international speaker, leadership and personal mastery consultant, a trainer in Wellbeing and Resilience, a physiotherapist and an accredited workplace trainer and assessor.
Katrina loves to be challenged. She has walked the Kokoda track and has trekked to Basecamp Everest twice. She is also a mother to not just one but to three beautiful boys.
In this episode, Katrina shares her journey and experience of being an athlete and talks to her thoughts on the role that sport plays in setting people up for success not only in the business environment but in life itself. She also shares how challenging it was dealing with her disability and the fear of being different.
We talked about her desire to keep putting herself into situations that are tough, uncomfortable, scary, such as speaking at TedX, trekking both the Kokoda track and the Everest Basecamp, not once, but twice, and currently, she is over in Japan and will be hosting the Paralympics on Channel 7!
To finish up, we also discussed Katrina's thoughts about what can businesses do to support their people through the pandemic from a well-being perspective and the importance that the organisational culture plays in wellbeing and resilience.
Where to find Katrina Webb
Join the conversation on Synergy IQ LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram (@synergyiq) and please support other leaders by liking, subscribing and sharing this podcast.
Access SynergyIQ Website to get to know more about us.
Say hello to our host Daniel on LinkedIn.
Books and podcasts mentioned on this episode:
Katrina Webb is recognised and acknowledged for her success as a Paralympic athlete. She has won Gold, Silver and Bronze medals in athletics at three Paralympic Games.
She was the first torchbearer to enter the Stadium for the Opening Ceremony of the Sydney 2000 Paralympic Games and in 2006 Katrina was selected on behalf of the International Paralympic Committee to speak at the United Nations in New York.
Off the track, Katrina is the Director of Silver 2 Gold High-Performance Solutions which specializes in powering organisations, teams and individuals best.
Katrina is a global ambassador for the International Paralympic Committee and due to her own experience in dealing with a disability and a deep love of helping others, Katrina is the Founder and Director of Newday Leadership a platform to inspire leadership for the greater good.
Katrina Webb is an international speaker, leadership and personal mastery consultant, a trainer in Wellbeing and Resilience, a physiotherapist and an accredited workplace trainer and assessor.
Katrina loves to be challenged. She has walked the Kokoda track and has trekked to Basecamp Everest twice. She is also a mother to not just one but to three beautiful boys.
In this episode, Katrina shares her journey and experience of being an athlete and talks to her thoughts on the role that sport plays in setting people up for success not only in the business environment but in life itself. She also shares how challenging it was dealing with her disability and the fear of being different.
We talked about her desire to keep putting herself into situations that are tough, uncomfortable, scary, such as speaking at TedX, trekking both the Kokoda track and the Everest Basecamp, not once, but twice, and currently, she is over in Japan and will be hosting the Paralympics on Channel 7!
To finish up, we also discussed Katrina's thoughts about what can businesses do to support their people through the pandemic from a well-being perspective and the importance that the organisational culture plays in wellbeing and resilience.
Where to find Katrina Webb
Join the conversation on Synergy IQ LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram (@synergyiq) and please support other leaders by liking, subscribing and sharing this podcast.
Access SynergyIQ Website to get to know more about us.
Say hello to our host Daniel on LinkedIn.
Books and podcasts mentioned on this episode:
Welcome to Creating synergy where we explore what it takes to transform. We are powered by Synergy IQ. Our mission is to help leaders create world class businesses where people are safe, valued, inspired and fulfilled. We can only do this with our amazing community. So thank you for listening.
Daniel Franco:Hi there synergisers. Welcome back to another episode of The creating synergy podcast. My name is Daniel Franco and today on the show we have the amazing and inspirational Katrina Webb. In the light of the recent Olympics and in the up and coming Paralympics, we thought who better to have on the show than the one and only gold medal winner herself. When Katrina was two years old, she was diagnosed with a mild form of cerebral palsy, but being the trooper this year, she didn't let this hold her back. Coming from a very successful sporting bloodline. Katrina won a scholarship with the Australian Institute of Sport in netball. Whenever a is her sporting career took an unexpected turn. And it was discovered that Katrina had been achieving success in netball was playing with an impediment that she'd kept secret. Her right leg was actually shorter than a left. A coach at the is then encouraged her to become involved in disability sport, and eventually she'd apply for the Paralympics. The rest writes itself, where she went on to win to gold in running in one silver in the long jump at the 1996 Atlanta Paralympics. Four years later, she was the first torchbearer to enter the stadium for the opening ceremony of the Sydney 2000 Paralympic Games where she went on to win two silver and bronze four years later again, in the last Paralympics. Much to her elation, Katrina finished a career with a Paralympic record and gold medal in the 400 meter running event. In 2006, she was selected on behalf of the International Paralympic Committee to speak at the United Nations in New York, and in 2007, he was inducted into the South Australian Sports Hall of Fame. off the track many listeners may know Katrina as being the founder and director of the New Day leadership, a platform which helps inspire leadership for the greater good. Katrina is also the director of silver to gold high performance solutions, which specializes in empowering organizations and teams and individuals to achieve their best. On top of this, Katrina is an international speaker speaking at events such as TEDx, she's a leadership and personal mastery consultant, and accredited trainer and well being and resilience and still has time to be a physio therapist to round off her extremely busy but yeah, productive life. Katrina is also a mother to not one but three beautiful boys and a wife to former Australian Olympic water polo athlete, Eddie Denis, in the episode Katrina and I talk about her journey and her experience of being an athlete. And she talks to her thoughts on the role that sports plays in setting up people for success not only in the business environment, but in life itself. She also shares how challenging it was to deal with a disability and the fear of being different. We talked about our desire to keep putting yourself into situations which are tough, uncomfortable, scary. So just speaking at the TEDx event, checking both the Kokoda track and Everest base camp not once but twice, and currently as she's over in Japan, hosting the Paralympics on Channel Seven. To finish up we also discuss Katrina's thoughts about what businesses can do to support their people through this pandemic, from the well being perspective and the importance that organizational culture plays in that well being. So if you love the episode, which I'm sure you will be sure to hit the subscribe button and check us out at Synergy IQ Comdata you and synergy IQ on all the social media outlets. Cheers. So welcome back to the creating synergy podcast. My name is Daniel Franco, your host and today we have the beautiful Katrina Webb on the show. Thank you for joining us.
Katrina Webb:It's great to be here, Daniel.
Daniel Franco:I want to start off in a slightly different fashion. I want to set a scene. Right so we were set let's set a scene now. We're in the year 2000. In a city named Sydney at the opening ceremony of the Paralympic Games, there's 110,000 screaming fans in the stadium 2.2 billion viewers at home watching who are glued to their TV sets and in walks a young 23 year old Australian who four years earlier took home two golds and a silver at the Atlanta Paralympic Games. All eyes are watching and she walks in holding one of the most iconic artifacts in sporting history, which is the Olympic torch. And that was you. That's an amazing, amazing story. I can see you're getting a little bit emotional. Yeah. How did that make you feel at that time? And how proud of you of yourself?
Katrina Webb:Wow, that has got me quite emotional down on there. That was a really beautiful recollection. And you really took me back to that moment. And as we're recording this right now, we're in the middle of the Olympics. And the Paralympics is only weeks away. So I'm feeling it in my soul, which has probably why I'm connecting to that emotion. At that moment, for me was spectacular. And the story behind it is that I only found out three days before that I was actually doing it when we landed in the Sydney village. I, one of the one of my amazing coaches who actually discovered me along my journey said to me, you need to go and speak to our president, the time and the CEO. And I was told them that I would have a role in the opening ceremony carrying the torch into the stadium. And I wasn't to tell anybody, which was the biggest secret I had to keep. In fact, my parents weren't and my family weren't coming because my cousin happened to be getting married on that weekend. And so I said to my mom and dad, please watch the ceremony. And don't switch it off. Like sometimes they don't see you walk out with the Australian team. People get distracted. I said, Please don't get distracted. And it was a surprise for them. And, and it was, it was an amazing moment. I remember actually watching the Olympics, my husband attended the Olympics as a water polo player. So you know, I watched him play and I remember watching Cathy Freeman do that and think, wonder, I wonder how you'd ever get chosen to do that. And I remember Dawn Fraser carrying out the flag and thinking I wonder how old you would have to be or what you'd have. And I didn't know that that was about to happen. So look at you, those moments come in your life and we've only ever had the Paralympics wants in Australia. So to have it in my time as an athlete to know now we've got a second Paralympics happening in Brisbane, which is extraordinary. But yeah, thank you for that. And it was a moment before phones. Yeah, that's a lot to remind people of 2000. There was no, you know, Facebook, Instagram, people were watching that 2.2 billion people watching was Yeah, an incredible moment in my life.
Daniel Franco:What did it feel like walking into the stadium. At that point, I've stood I've got a career in sport and background. And I stood on on Adelaide Oval on Australia Day, opening of one day I but I was getting awarded winner's trophy on that morning, and in Australia, we're playing, I wasn't playing for Australia. But hearing the national anthem, and everything in front of 50,000 people was amazing. I couldn't imagine 110
Katrina Webb:Oh, yes. And it's not many people get that opportunity. In fact, and even during these times now, to be in front of an audience that big is extraordinary. And the thing that I loved about it, though, was when I ran down the 100 meter straight, the whole Australian team were lined up along that 100 meter home straight. And they actually didn't know either because it was such a secret. So I remember just seeing their faces in support and cheering me on was was really wonderful. And another bit that I really enjoyed was I then pass the torch on to Anthony Clark, who's another South Australian gold medalist from Atlanta, in judo, and he is blind. And so I actually then had this wonderful gift of, of running with him and enjoying that experience with him which was Yeah, which was really special just amazing.
Daniel Franco:So as you said the Tokyo Olympics are happening right now. And we can go deeper and further into your career and how you went there but I want to cast our minds back to you growing up and when you first may have realized that there was something there wrong when I say wrong, but there was something there that wasn't quite hitting the mark. What do you remember the point in which you in which you discovered that about yourself?
Katrina Webb:Yeah, the point where I would have memories back and I think if anyone remembers back to when can you start when do you have memories that aren't a photograph and and it would be around the age of five you know, starting to go to school. You know, my memories in those early days of knowing that there was something different was that I had to wear a night plaster to bed from age three. So that was something that I've got, you know, obviously consistent memories and I had to wear that until I stopped growing. And I'm just under six foot and I did stop growing around the age of 12. So when I worked out I had to wear that night plaster for three and a half 1000 Watts reason for the night so sorry, went off knots. Yeah, so yeah, it basically I popped in at night and it kept my ankle at 90 degrees, which made sure as I was growing my calf muscle wouldn't I'm shortens. So if my foot naturally just relaxed, and then my calf muscle was in a shortened position at night, then as I was growing, it would be harder for me to walk on my heel and toe walk, which is quite a common I'm a physio now and using plastering and night plasters is, is a common thing for children while they're growing to make sure they get good range and get good, you know, placement of their limbs if they've been different, different. But for me, it's an interesting thing because my parents didn't, didn't note much until I was age three. And that's when I started limping consistently. But when I actually speak to my mom, she knew she could feel deep inside that there was something different with me, my sister's only 14 months older. So she she was carrying around a baby, you know, not long after I was born. And so she would tell me, you know, when I would when she carried me on one side, she could feel it was different to the other side. So I could grip well with my left side. But when I was on the other hip trying to grip with my right, she could feel that it was wasn't as strong. So she she knew and her intuition that there was something a little bit different. And then when I was three, I started limping and it wasn't going away. So that's where they started doing some investigations. And that's when it was picked up that I had suffered an injury to my brain, you know, in utero, they didn't use the term cerebral palsy back then. They called it you know, simple as that injury to my brain utero. And that's when they said I had to wear that my plaster. So my early memories are of wearing that plaster and going to see a physio to get a new eye made. And then I'd see the specialist, orthopedic, orthopedic pediatric specialist once or twice a year to see ours going.
Daniel Franco:So you grew up just with almost your back against the wall from an early age and still achieve so much, you know, playing a lot of netball early on. Yeah, tell us how you Yeah. Well,
Katrina Webb:you know, I think when I look at growing up, when you have to wear a night plaster to bed, you do know that something different about you. And I actually can't kill my right toe. So that's pretty significant. So when you start to realize why can't curl my toes, can't point my toes. Very good. My balance isn't that good. On my right side. As a young kid, I knew there was a difference. And you're looking at me right now, you can't see it very well, though. And so I remember as a young kid thinking, Well, I don't really know what it is, and I don't want to be different. We remember back to being at school, if there was anything that was different about you kids can make it pretty hard. Yeah. So I just thought, I just want to be like everybody else. I'm going to work hard to cover it up. And I remember saying to my parents, can we not tell anybody? Can we keep it a secret. So what happened then is like I had this contract with myself to, to want to prove to people that I was like them. And that meant I had to work hard. And, and I and my parents were fantastic with parenting. I have learned a lot from them. And I have three boys now. And I do follow a lot of their philosophies. There's that lovely concept of you know, really putting kids out there. And they got me to do as many things as I could. And I had to finish it. So if I started a term of something I couldn't pull out after two weeks I had to get this was their rules get to the end, then you choose whether you continue on. And we do the same with our kids. The team down halfway. Yeah, that's it anything like something, suck it up, you know, get to the end, because you might like it after 10 weeks or 12 weeks. And so for me, they did that I they made me do ballet. And now that did suck because I can't point my toes. And I remember the teacher going, you know, that blonde girl on the back, put your toes and it was awful. So I stopped that as soon as I could. I wasn't great at calisthenics. And I was good at netball. And I you know, there was things that I found that I'm good at. And I think from any if anyone's helping people to find their potential, give people a chance to try many different things. And there are things that you can find that you can, you can do well in and I did netball was the thing that I did well in and then I put more time and effort into it. And once you start to get discovered that you've got a bit of talent, then you get put in another group and then you get more training. And you know, for me it escalated like that. And I you know, I started playing state level from under sixteens which was exciting.
Daniel Franco:Yeah, kudos. Oh, wait. When was the the actual time though that you thought actually, the Paralympics could be something here. It could be something in this. Yeah.
Katrina Webb:Yeah. I will add to that. What was helpful was my dad was a very good athlete, and my mom's maiden name is spawn. And so so if you're from South Australia, Rachel sports my first cousin, she's Commentating the Olympic basketball right now. cousin's played AFL football so I did have some good sporting genes. And I made it to the is in Canberra in 1995 on a full able bodied netball scholarship. So that was my first you know, so making it through state teams and then getting selected in national squads after nationals. And my incredible coach from Adelaide My gang Gove, who many people would know, encouraged me to apply for a scholarship in Canberra. And I did. And you know, I wanted in 1995, which was extraordinary, was one of 12 girls from Australia to leave the is full time fully funded playing netball in the best netball league in Australia. So you can imagine 1995, for me, I was 17 thinking, wow, this is this is fantastic. And that didn't go to plan. I got a knee injury sideline for 10 weeks. I then said not getting picked for the team. And that sucks. Like when you can't do anything. Like I was such a hard worker. And, you know, they say wherever they may be that hard work always pays off. I realized in this situation, there was nothing else I could do. And I didn't get picked for the team. And that was really hard to deal with. And that
Daniel Franco:told a reason why or from that coach.
Katrina Webb:Yeah, yeah. And look, I agree with you that the hard truth was that playing the best netball league in Australia, which is one of the best in the world, and I've got mild cerebral palsy, which I was hiding, which, you know, I didn't really know what it was, but I was doing my absolute best. They weren't aware. Yeah, at that level, you need to be 100%. You know? Yeah, like, I couldn't change anything. On my right side. I was an incredible netballer. I could read the play. Well, my left side must be super extraordinary to get to that I look at myself and go well, to get there with what you know, I had to my limitations on my right side was extraordinary. And the hard truth is that that was going to be difficult. I could still come back to Atlanta and play at a state level no problem. But this was talking about the highest level in Australia. And then the interesting thing that happened in that year is that there was a coach at the AIAS training the next lot of para athletes to go to the Atlanta Paralympic Games. His name's Chris man. He's actually from Adelaide. And he was married to Glynnis man, and I love this this story because he noticed me walking one day around the abs, and he saw my cerebral palsy straightaway. His eye is trying to look for that. And he got so excited. Because here I am able bodied. And he watched me walk and you know what, watch me walk again. And then through a series of you know, chats with physio therapists and a few other things I did with him. It was confirmed it wasn't diagnosed because you know, it was confirmed that what I had was cerebral palsy. So you can imagine how excited this coach Gosh, because cerebral palsy is in the Paralympics. Yeah, it was in their way before I came along. Yeah, there were women like me competing in the Paralympics way before I was discovered. Yeah. And so this moment, he came up to me and it was extraordinary. He said to me, I could train and guess what, you know, what you've got is cerebral palsy. In a year's time if you get classified, and if you can qualify in a Paralympic sport, you can come with us to the 1995 Atlanta and only only six Atlanta Paralympic Games.
Daniel Franco:Well done. So how does that feel for someone who didn't want anyone to know?
Katrina Webb:Yeah, great question it if it to be honest, it didn't feel good. When when someone comes up to you. And you're in hiding with something you don't like about yourself. You're trying to prove to people you're good enough you make it to the is on an able bodied nipple program. And then someone comes and says to you that you can go to the Paralympics. And it wasn't anything about that. For me. It was what triggered me in that moment was he said I could go to Paralympics, which means I'm a Paralympian, which means people are going to know that there's something wrong with me and I don't like that part about myself. It was that bit that really frightened me. And I didn't have any tools in my kit tonight what to do with that. And that really triggered my shame. And the more I've under understand about the emotion of shame now is when you feel shame, it's when you say that you're not good enough that you're broken. It's not my behavior is the thing that's wrong, you feel like you're and for a long time I was hiding because I didn't feel like I was good enough. I felt like I was broken because I had a difference. And you got to remember, I grew up in this, you know, I was born in 77 and grew up in the 80s. And did look think about what disability look like then I didn't even have one kid in my school with a disability. You know, there wasn't anyone to role model yourself on to go actually, I'm really proud of being different. People didn't even know what the Paralympic Games was. I didn't even know what it was. And so for someone to say you could go to this games. I was worried personally about all of that side. It been that moment that I will say this and a couple of things because Chris none is an extraordinary human. It was the way he said it to me. He doesn't have a disability. He loves the Paralympic movement so much because it's about sport, and it's about, you know, unlocking and being your best. And he was so excited about telling me this that put aside my fear. I could feel his passion. I could feel his authentic desire for me to want to be a part of something that was going to transform me and others And I felt that and I just thought, okay, there isn't. There's an opportunity here to look at this deeper. And this isn't about just how I'm going to feel this is about something bigger than myself here. And in that moment, he gave me a wonderful piece of advice. He said to me, Katrina, before you make a decision about what to do hear, because this is a big decision. How about you go and speak to somebody? And how about you go and speak to the sport psychologist? Now I'm at the Australian Institute of Sport one of the best facilities in the world. And when he said to me go and speak to a sports psychologist, I went yeah, of course I will. I had a psychologist in my team at the South Australian Sports Institute because I was a young netball, psychology and sport go together equals good performance right? And so I went and sat with this psychologist and it was in that moment I was able to really look at the situation and make the best decision moving forward.
Daniel Franco:This is I got so many questions that can come out of that. I do want to say there is that the Tokyo Paralympic commercial that is out at the moment which almost which paints that picture? It's an amazing commercial if you can look it up it's on just go on YouTube and channel four channel Yeah, UK Yeah. And look up the Tokyo Paralympic commercial, we'll put a link in the podcast as well. But it you just see the the effort and the like it when we talk about backing backs against the wall some of the the, the position the starting positions of these of these people who are going through the Paralympics is so far behind, and there's so much more effort that goes into getting themselves up. It is it's an amazing point. It's almost superhuman, right? That's what they will they refer to it as in the edit it is superhuman, so yeah, it's such a inspiring sport. Well, event I should say the limit the Paralympics, so yeah, it is
Katrina Webb:and and I and I'll say that the Olympics as well. To be an Olympian and and I married one and to be a Paralympian myself, if you look at what's the similarity in that is, it's humans that have skillsets and, and the right skill sets to make it to that level. And yes, the Paralympic athletes have other hurdles to come across. Even for some athletes getting out of bed could and getting ready for the day could take them two hours, where other people can jump out of bed. So there's another story there. Of course, this package though, of what it takes to be an Olympian or Paralympian is very similar. And, and you've got to have all that you have to have all the package, it's, you know, my husband, and I talk about this a lot, you know, people think, because somebody has talent in a particular sport, they're gonna make it and they could be the most talented, they don't make it because they haven't got the grit, they haven't got the discipline, they haven't, when when you can't be bothered going to training you don't. And for all of the athletes that I've come across that have made it, they've got that, that extra that grit, they know how to keep going on those days where you just don't want to, it is a very special package that requires a lot of support and a lot of discipline to keep keep going. Do you feel
Daniel Franco:that? We talked about sports psychology, and I'm really interested in understanding how that all worked out for you that during those early conversations, but you feel that and I'm going to throw business in and amongst these Do you feel the power of sport or the you know, the, the desire and I've played again, I've played in, in team sport, I've represented quite high levels in cricket, when I was when I was younger in my junior days. And just the idea of, of setting a goal with a team of a bunch of people who you don't normally interact with in in setting yourself in it with cricket, I was hitting that 10 cent piece on the cricket pitch I was a baller and running in and for hours by myself hours after hours after hours. It's like now I've got to make this team I've got to I've got to prove myself I've got to get better I've got to you know this constant desire to grow and improve and and and that push just keeps moving forward. And I can see you you've gone out and started your own businesses and you often see a lot of successful sporting people go out do you believe that that it's the resilience probably that comes from constantly pushing yourself and constantly hurting yourself and getting yourself back up and you're gonna have your ups and downs is going to be days that it feels like you should quit but you Just keep pushing through. Do you feel like that carries very big importance in life? And in?
Katrina Webb:Yeah, yeah, look, you can it's a, it's a wonderful school to go through. And for a long time, you know, I suppose I battled with this a little bit because I remember when I retired as an athlete, and if you've trained for 30 hours a week, and some of us may have meddled, which for me, yes, I have. And then I'll go to my husband as well, he trained as much as me for as long as me and didn't win a medal at in water polo at the Olympic Games and water polo. And yet, we went through the same school and the same things. And then you you finish, and there's no PhD, you know, if I put that time into university, or into a business, then my business could have, you know, really grown in that period of time. So it's an interesting part two, come out, have to go. Okay, well, I've spent the last 12 years training 30 hours a week, and now this part has stopped in my life. And then you have to start new, you have to transition into what's next and what's new. And if it's done well. And I know I did do it well through my transition, because I was always working in parallel business and sport, because I knew that firstly, I didn't earn money from being an athlete and had to, but I knew that if I transition beautifully, that when I retired, I wouldn't have that low. I could just keep growing and business could keep moving for which it has. There is a unique skill set. Absolutely. From sport. Not every not doesn't say that everyone can do it. Because we're all we all however, I do agree that if you've been through that school, an amazing skill set that can be transferred into business and in and transferred into anything. Yeah. Life respect. Oh, yeah. And the thing I love about sport is that yes, you're learning all of those skills, your personal development skills, and it's also wrapped around moving your body, and more so than ever now. from a health perspective, mental health and well being is absolute crucial. And I've seen athletes also crash because if if mental health and well being wasn't their passion, yet, sport was done more from a work perspective, and then they retire. And because they're not doing their sport, which for them was more their work, they drop off their mental health and wellbeing practices for someone like me, who's a physio who loves mental health and well being I was doing sport, really, for that reason that I've come out of it and, and been thriving, after retiring, because I've used those skills, and now teach them up to others. I've seen other athletes really struggle because they haven't embedded those mental health and well being principles. Because for them sports stops.
Daniel Franco:Yeah, yeah. And they haven't transferred. No excuse. No, it
Katrina Webb:wasn't what they're passionate about. They're passionate about doing sport, because it was their work. And then they transition their work into another field, that those things can drop off. So
Daniel Franco:is that a big part of the sport psychology that it should be taught that, look, there's going to be a point when they were, let's get very frank, that your body's not going to be able to continue any further, at the elite level that you know, then you kids on the boxer come in through that we need to start thinking about how we can transition your mindset into another world. Yeah, there's,
Katrina Webb:there's a lot more being done now, which is fantastic. And in fact, I'm been working with a company out of the UK, that were some successful male athletes that have started their own company working with some really large professional services, that are being that transfer organization to help elite athletes who have made it to the top, who are fantastic in business, and a lot of them have got even Masters on top, they get into the corporate world, and they really struggle. Because if you've retired at 30, and never been in the corporate world, because your work has been on the sporting field, this company is doing wonderful things to help transition athletes to you know, to business and professional services, and helping them with that gap. And once they've helped with that transition, these athletes are doing really well. And professional services are really wanting to recruit these athletes, because to ask that question. They know they've got the package. So to help athletes transition into what does business look like with this skill set is the gap. And I know a lot of alumni and sports are now taking that responsibility to not just let athletes go to go what's next?
Daniel Franco:Yeah, when you think about the desire and their work ethic on a day to day basis, they're getting up at five o'clock every single morning. This is what you hear that the senior execs of the world are doing. Right? Yes. There's athletes that have been doing it their whole lives from a young age. Yes. Yes. are ingrained. Yeah. How do we transition?
Katrina Webb:That's right. I know you mentioned if you're a senior exec, and all of a sudden you had to stop here and retire at 30. Yeah. And then go into another completely different field. So, you know, I've actually done a little bit of work with organizations, helping them to transition this their retirees into what's next. Because I know what it feels like to retire. And it's a really hard transition, if you haven't done the preparation of what, you know, along your journey. And a lot of people when if you're listening to this, and you're thinking about retirement or close to, and I know some professional organizations say that directors have to retire at age 56, or 55. And so I know that they do do some work around that transition to what's next, instead of saying, well, you're retiring. It's like, what's next? And as an athlete, I had to learn to go on to what was next
Daniel Franco:was gonna think forward. He said, You mentioned earlier that you we could read the play, that that in itself is a skill set that not many people have. Yeah. And I don't know if it's something that can be taught, it's having that that view of three or four steps down the track, it is a skill set. Is that something that you found that held you in good stead? A very,
Katrina Webb:very good actually, yeah, look, if I was to look at why I was so successful as an Ebola and to think, yeah, I was very successful with my cerebral palsy at the top level, it's that unique ability to read, always called and it is my skill set. Now. You know, I am a qualified physiotherapist. So you can see how that skill set can be transferred into reading the play from a physiotherapy point of view. But even in terms of day to day, I have a great ability to, to critically think and to look forward and to problem solve, to how to navigate this uncertainty that we're in now. And I feel like that skill set has really helped me to thrive in this changing time. And then sort of, you know, being held back.
Daniel Franco:Yeah, one that point, we've just come out of lockdown in here in Adelaide. And there are a lot of people who are feeling a little bit all over the shop just purely because they're not able to read the play. They're really living in the now which is kind of what you're supposed to do you know, why live in the present moment? But, you know, I've always had the idea that keep an eye on the future and make sure you're planning for that. Yeah. What are you working with some of the some of the people at the moment in that mental health and wellbeing space?
Katrina Webb:Yeah, you know, even for myself in terms of. So I have, you know, a company that does put on large events and a lot of events, which brings people together. So I only work as a physio therapist one weekend, a month to keep my registration. However, I feel like I work as a physio every day because it's that thinking that I learned at university to help analyze situations to critically think to then problem solve and to help, you know, give people solutions that they can go away and try and test and then come back. I love doing that. For him. That's, that's my core, what I love doing, I love holding a space where people can learn and grow and, and I can help them with some solutions. So I feel like I work as a physio everyday, I just don't like fixing body parts. And so for me in terms of my own work and putting on my own programs, what has been really helpful has is to have plan A, B, C, D, and E. And to go through okay, if this happens, what's where do we go to next? And because I, you know, people love getting together. People want to get together. I do know from most of my clients, people want in person events on and people want to experience that.
Daniel Franco:And so much more meaningful. read body language.
Katrina Webb:Absolutely. And you share chemic good chemicals, by being in a room together soon. Feels very transact. Yeah, yeah. And I know from one of my good friends, who's a specialist in this, you don't share chemicals, I presume. You just don't get that feel good. You know, hormones where
Daniel Franco:it's actually a movie about that, which is, it's called Ready Player One. I'm not sure. You can feel.
Katrina Webb:Yeah, so for me, I've had to have I've had if I'm going to do something, there's got a B, Plan A, B, C, D, and E, which is really helpful because I know then if that it's okay. So you kind of you're able to go with the flow knowing that you've got, you've thought it out.
Daniel Franco:I think that's a really critical point that No, and this is what I'm talking about. I believe that too many people do this and it is a skill set is to not just have a plan A and potentially a Plan B it's where I find majority of people are thinking in plan A and plan B it's having that C D and E and knowing that is an absolute possibility. So if it does happen being okay with it is also a skill set.
Katrina Webb:That's right and communicating to people that this is what planning will be if you're coming on board to this UK with that. What I would also say though, to help with this time is that you know if we go back to my story, and then moment with a psychologist when I, you know, I was encouraged to sit down and make a decision about moving forward in to the Paralympics in that moment in 1995 was a significant moment for me because this psychologist got me to sit down. And he said, Okay, we're sitting at a table, we had two big pieces of butchers paper out in front of me. And he said, Look, Katrina, you've, you've got a decision to make here. And this could be a life changing decision. And we were going through that right now with the last couple of years, aren't we we're making decisions that are really transforming ourselves, our families, people are deciding where to move and where to where to have their businesses. And you sit on this side of the paper, write down all the things that you're worried about, let's write down let's call them negatives about you going to a Paralympic Games, okay, we're gonna put them all on this paper, piece of paper. And on this side, we're going to write down all the positives and all the opportunities that could come out of it. And that's as simple as he got me to do about the pen and we put it down and he said, then we'll look at it and then we'll, we'll have all of the thinking on the table, and then we'll balance make a balanced decision. I remember so clearly, he telling me this at age 18. And no one had ever had this conversation with me before. And, and what? Yeah, what I now know is that he got me to think about my thinking, which is a process called metacognition. And he got me to step out of my thinking. And I realized that my thinking is a part of me, but it's not me. And when you can put it on a table and read in front of you, you actually can make a really good decision. What was happening? Yeah, absolutely. Or in that, you know, the Adelaide Oval grandstand, looking down on yourself. And in that moment, I actually got to separate from my negative thoughts, which I was really fused with. What will people think about me if I become a Paralympian? Will they like me? Will I fit in? Because for 18 years, I've been trying to do that. And can I tell you why it sucked, it was so hard to try and fit in to be someone I wasn't. And to try and prove to people I was good enough. I already was with who I was. I was worried about failing, I was worried about making a mistake, and being expert enough, and they're probably my top six, to be honest. And they keep coming up in my life. When I choose to like I'm going to Tokyo to report with channel seven. Now. I've never done live TV. I'm really excited about it. But when they rang me to say would you go to Tokyo to be on TV with us and report? Of course, I want to say yes. But then all of a sudden, I'm going Am I expert? Yeah, what happens if I make a mistake? What happens if I fail the imposter syndrome? Think of me? Will they like me? Will I fit in there? My top six? Yeah. And then I go, thanks, mind. I know you're trying to protect me, thank you. Like, I like the fact that you're, you care for me, you don't want to see me fail, you don't want to see me make a mistake. You don't want me to be rejected or have shame, I get that. And if I listened to that side of my thinking, then I wouldn't be here today, I would have gone back to Adelaide from Canberra, I would have protected myself hidden my disability gone back to play a pretty good level of netball and been unhappy to be honest, I have this inner, this inner drive in me that wants to unlock my potential and be as good as I choose to be. And so I'm so thankful for this moment, because I know my thinking can if I use this term disabled disabled me, I don't feel like my, my disability has much but my thinking can. And during these times of uncertainty, for many of us, we haven't really been taught about our thinking, you know, I would love there to be a subject at school called being human right from, you know, even from kindergarten all the way to Utah, where we're actually taught on a daily basis, what it is to be a human. Yeah, and these things that we have to, you know, understand about ourselves. And so now when this uncertainty, I have great skills in my toolkit, that were my thinking can go to catastrophizing or, you know, I fall into some thinking traps that, you know, with this, this pandemic can create some very interesting thinking in my own committee meetings. I'm sure others have had some very interesting thoughts and legitimate thoughts, and factual but also made up stuff that I can actually then go is that really true? Is that not? What's the best decision to move forward with now? What are the opportunities and look at that list and weigh it up? And you know, when I took the time to look at the opportunities back as a 18 year old when I said okay, negative thoughts will just sit you there for now, something really special happened in that moment where when I looked at all of the positives, they were like, represent a country travel, I'd never been out of Australia before I could potentially win a medal. I could be the best in the world. And suddenly something happened that I looked at and when actually this is what I've come to the is for, like I come here to be my best I come here to hopefully represent my country. You know, my excellence value was there. You know, that opportunity to challenge myself I realized that everything I'd come to the is for was Here, it was packaged differently. What an amazing question important learning Yeah, that if you know what your goals are, which are linked to your values, that if you anchor in them and you have clarity on them that packaging is so different. And I love that about life. So work hard on getting your, you know, your goals and values in place. And then you can be flexible with packaging, because it doesn't matter when you work when your values lead, and purpose led context doesn't matter, you take it everywhere you go. And for me in this this last 18 months, it's been a gift. Because I anchor myself in that it's like, what do I want to be known for? What legacy do I want to leave during this time? What do I want people to say about me during this uncertainty? How am I going to show up? And where can that best be served. And then you find some really amazing packaging, which I call innovation. And transformation
Daniel Franco:is I think it's such a powerful point, because it's the this idea of control and having control over everything that we do, really closes us off from having the opportunities to see what's actually hitting us in the face, you know, in your your ability to your ability to be able to open up and sort of cast a wider vision and a wider net and go actually, this still hits my core. And that that is in in his skill set in itself is one that's very, very underrated. What I'm really interested in why do you feel that we are embarrassed about being different, when we no will subconsciously know that being different? Is the people who are different are generally the ones who change the world. Right? So what why is that? Why are we Why do we want to always conform, yet really admire those who are different? And it just throws me?
Katrina Webb:Yeah, it's such a good question. And you know, what's going on my journey of, of being able to develop skills. So if I take that forward to say, from that point in time, knowing how powerful psychologists were, and as a as a gold medalist, I had a psychologist in my team the whole time. And the main reason why for me was actually to help me again, with those thoughts that weren't helpful. I often say to people, I don't need anyone to sabotage me because I do a very good job, myself. Absolutely. And so I worked really hard with a psychologist on my own self criticism, and when that became too toxic, that was, you know, detrimental to my performance. And so having, I have now an incredible toolkit from a psychological point of view, I have to now know what my thinking does, and when it's helpful or not helpful. And then I've got processes that are put into place to, to not let those thoughts drive me in my life. I think and then now at this point where I'm at, as you've said, I love that you've just said that, that once I've able to realize that my point of difference is my gift. And that that is a journey that you have to go on as an individual. It took me time it took me time to I had to go deep within myself and I had to learn sort of acceptance and love. And I had to do that with a skill set, a psychological skill set around my thinking. And so to come out the other end of that, and my my most incredible gift as a Paralympian is that I learned those skills. And the bit that really bothers me and really, I feel it's tragic that I do the work that I do now is that no one else offered me those skills. From a psychological point of view to get the best out of myself to perform at a gold medal level. No one else offered me those skills in life, those skills that I learned to win gold with on the track were the exact skills I needed to actually win. I had conversations with myself that went something like this. Katrina, you're stupid, you're broken, you're stupid right side, you know, you can't curl your toes, you're hopeless. People aren't gonna like you. Your right legs thinner than your left. So don't wear shorts because then people know you're different like the I have had. I can't even tell you how many conversations I've had with myself that have not been helpful around being different. And once someone gave me a tool kit of when I have thoughts on the track that say, our Katrina, you won gold in Atlanta, but you've lost gold for eight years, you should only be happy with silver, you're getting older, that person next to us better. Those thoughts that weren't helpful on the track to win gold. A psychologist helped me to learn processes of how to not let them drive my performance. I could able just let them be and then focus on what I needed to. And then I went up, I have those same conversations with myself around having a disability. Maybe I'll try the same skill set. And that was the gift that I then able was able to I really learned a lot of the gifts choice is that yeah, and to realize that, like you're everyone's looking for a point of difference right in business. And little did I know that my point of difference that has escalated me onto a world stage you know, I've got to share the speaking stage with rich Sir Richard Branson with Jack Ma with his Usain Bolt was different. I heard
Daniel Franco:that they, they say the same thing. Yeah.
Katrina Webb:It was my difference that I needed to unleash my difference to project my myself to the world. I couldn't have done that without the psychology skills that I learned from being a gold medalist. And that for me, is amazing. And that for me sucks because I didn't get offered those skills in life because I didn't hit rock bottom, I wasn't burnt out, worn out stressed out grieving or suffering trauma. And, and I, when I come up, and I know still around psychology, that psychology service are very much needed, of course, for when people hit those moments. Yeah, I've met some amazing psychologists that are now preventative base that don't want to wait for people to get into the chair. Yeah, but they want to help build someone's mental health and well being so they can perform well. And I think there's been that lovely transition of psychology services that have made psychology more available to all of us, and the work of Seligman and positive psychology. So I think going on this as a long answer to your question is that as human beings, we hide, because we don't want to, we don't want to not fit in, if we look at our ever evolutionary psychology around being part of a tribe, and wanting to survive, yeah, we conform and fitting, and we do what we need to do necessarily to make sure that someone will want to love us and have sex with us so that our human species know continues. And you know, that's hard psychology to unwire. Right? And so once you realize, okay, then I've got a difference. What is driving? Is it? Is my thinking driving to protect me, like it was for me, is that helpful to me? It wasn't, was it helpful to others in society? No, then what can I do about it? And what tools can I put in my kit? To help me, you know, love the fact that I have a difference? And until you have that, I can see why people? Because I was there. Yeah, that
Daniel Franco:was a really important lesson from this, which is, we all have the power of choice, right? We all have the power to decide what we are going to do and what we're not going to do. And, and I think if you really, fundamentally, at the core, I can understand what your values are and where you want to be. It's a hard lesson as it's easy just to go just figure out what your values are and live to them. It's not that easy, right? It's a long term self discovery, but know what the core that when something feels good. And when something doesn't feel good. And go down those paths. Yeah, no, and fear shouldn't hold you back it
Katrina Webb:Absolutely. Can I add to also Daniel, what was really clear for me in this situation, have lived experience with this. And this is my story. Of course, with mild cerebral palsy. This is how I felt that when I sat down with a psychologist and made that decision, and then suddenly saw my goals and values there, there was another question I asked myself, which is a very big question to ask yourself at 18. I remember sitting there thinking, why do I hate being different? So much? And I asked myself that question was because I was already tired. I was actually exhausted. As an 18 year old woman from hiding from yourself. Yeah. And from hiding it and the self taught, but also the hiding, I would have to plan and this is maybe where my good planning comes into place. And this is what I really love to challenge people when they meet someone with a disability now to go, I wonder what great skills that they've developed that I don't, instead of looking at someone with a disability going with their deficiency, you know, feeling sorry for them, I look at people with disability go wonder what strengths and skills that they've developed that others haven't. So for me, maybe my ability to follow a plan is brilliant, because when you're trying to hide something, I would be okay, where am I going today? I've got to make sure I don't limp. So then people will know there's nothing wrong with me. Maybe I'll wear those long pants because then I'll notice that my right legs a bit thinner than my left. And when I have to balance in front of a group of people, I'll just I won't show people I'll just pretend that I you balanced on my right, but I'll stay on my left again. So no one see. So can you see I was already forward planning. Yeah. And if you asked me why I was limping in case I forgot not to limp, then I'd have to tell you it was my knee and then I'd have to remember Daniel that you know that my knee is the problem. So next time you check in I've got a member that can you already see how exhausting it is? And I remember asking myself this question, What am I doing this for? Because this sucks and I'm over it. This isn't what I want to be known for and this is not a way to live. And if I become a Paralympian, I want to be an incredibly proud one. Like now at age 44, when I watch that channel for video that you were talking about, I have more pride than ever about being a Paralympian. And if I become one, I want to be so proud. I didn't, I didn't know how to do it. But I just knew that was in my core. And I knew it was right. And I knew that if I could, if I could do it, what's deep in my core is I love to help people. And yes, valleys can be hard to find. However, if you actually start digging around and look at when you were a kid, and what you love doing and what made you feel good. When I go back to being a kid, I always loved helping people. I was babysitting kids from the age of nine, I could have deep conversations with adults at age 10, who had suffered some major tragedy like I was really good at helping people. And so in that moment, I went you know, if I become a Paralympian, imagine if a young girl or boy who has cerebral palsy, like me, sees me in the future. And then they can go, she's just like me, I can be something.
Daniel Franco:There is a story like that, isn't there? Can you share that?
Katrina Webb:Yeah. Look, there's, there's two of my favorite stories that drive my work. And I'll, and I'll share the more recent one, which is just a beautiful one. I was training some well being resilient skills on stage in Adelaide, and there was a teacher in the audience. And when I trained well being resilient skills, people don't hear much about my story. I'm teaching skills. However, I have a bit of fun and share with people that I have cerebral palsy and do a few demos. And it's a great way to warm up the audience. Yeah, this one a classification. And there was a teacher in the audience on this particular day. And in the break, she came up to me and she said to me, Katrina, I have a young girl in my class who has cerebral palsy, very similar to you. And she's in year two. And at the moment, you know, she's struggling, she's going through that phase of, of being different, and you know, having to wear her what's called an HFO. So some kids have to wear night plaster, some actually have to wear them during the day, which makes it even more obvious that there's something different. And she said to me, can you write her a little letter and I'll give it to her, maybe it'll give her that boost of motivation. And so, in the break, I didn't just write a little note, I wrote a three page letter to this young girl and this teacher was extraordinary. She on the weekend, she printed photos of me and she framed it in a big frame with my words. And I actually said to the teacher, look, if it's okay, and if the school is okay, in appearance, okay, I'll be really happy to come to her class and meet her and bring my medals and do a talk to the class. And that's exactly what happened. And it was the most beautiful moment I've ever experienced. In fact, people often say to me, what does it feel like to win gold? I know what it feels like to win gold, I can tell you this moment when something like this happens is a feeling that surpasses gold, when you know you've contributed to their greater good have someone else to say it in this young girl's eyes and the relationship that I have with the parents and what the parents have said to me that how it's helped them to see difference. And for young boys and girls to see disability in the community being successful. That's what that's what I do it for. Yeah, yeah.
Daniel Franco:100% agree there is no greater feeling than seeing the boundaries of someone's thoughts being removed in life in front of your eyes. And I think that's what you experienced in that moment. The the boundaries that this young girl thought she was going to live and abide by, have now been removed. And achievement is just based on what she decides to do.
Katrina Webb:salutely and we need to see more disability in the community, we need to see more success. There's incredible amounts of success that have come from people with disability, we need to see more of it. We need to see more on TV. One thing I loved about the Tokyo Olympics opening ceremony, I don't know if you noticed it, but there was people with disabilities in it. Amazing, we need to see this in all areas of life because this is humanity. And it needs to be celebrated more we're getting there. But when you think about where we've come from, it's a long cultural change of what disability looks like, you know, even when I was growing up to have a spastic center and crippled children's I know they did important work. The name of them still upsets me to think that we had organizations that will call crippled children's Association. Imagine taking your child to Crippled Children,
Daniel Franco:like automatically planting a seed in their head that they're different.
Katrina Webb:Yeah, yeah. It's so it's exciting. It's exciting to see and we we need to keep you know, making sure that you know, disability is celebrated and that's a message that I'm really going strong on this year for people is is to see that difference is extraordinary. And when you meet someone that has a difference Your natural psychology might go to poor them, they're missing a leg or they're in a wheelchair, I wonder how they, I want people to really challenge their own thinking and to think well, Wow, I wonder what skills they've got that the world needs that none of us have because of their difference?
Daniel Franco:Can I ask you a question is wrong gonna ask it anyway? So
Katrina Webb:then as my condition
Daniel Franco:it's something that's toyed with me for a while. And I don't know what's correct, what's not correct. And it's a world that I live in, it's the gray area of it. All right, if there is someone with a wheelchair, who is he or with, you know, a physical disability that is noticeable? And put it this way, if I'm walking down the street, and there's a lot of able bodies around me, I'm not noticing someone who is physically disabled, I notice and then have an instant desire to help, should they need it? Is that is that person at that particular time? Are they requiring help? Or are they are they don't I mean, this is
Katrina Webb:a good question to ask. And I love that you're, you're putting it out there because I've experienced this a lot. And and when I go to a Paralympic Games, so I've competed at three, and I have this amazing role of being a global ambassador for The International Paralympic Committee in I would have been in Tokyo last year with working with them first. And then because there's no hospitality, and no people coming in that role has now ceased. I worked in London with them and Rio with them. And the two ambassadors I worked with the first one Chris widow from the USA, he is a summer and winter Paralympian, and he is a person using a chair. And so I spent so much time with him. And we had these conversations all the time, because when you look at me, you can't see my disability. So sometimes they might think I'm his carer, this is interesting and won't talk to him. And then we were fascinated, though, when we would go places together, no one would offer me any help. And he would be offered help all of the time. And there was one particular situation where our car came to pick him up, and this person wanted to help and it would come from, you know, the right place. And he's like, let me help you into the car is like, no, no, no, it's okay, I can do it. And he continued to want to offer help. And in the increase when my I have my own car, I drive my own car, even for my own wheelchair in the back of my car, I'm okay. And, and we hopped in the car, and I just I said to him, and I commented to him, I'm I'm so respectful and have admiration for your ability to actually be calm with his people and actually stay call because I can tell you what, I'm already getting angry, how you're treated. And he said, Yeah, look, I have my moments, but people want to do the right thing. But I need to educate them as well. And so what I've learned, and this is how I work with people at a Paralympic Games, I don't help anyone at all. And it is a skill set that you've got to learn to I'm a physio as well, and so I don't help anyone at all, unless someone asks for it. And that's my simple philosophy. You can do more damage, not only to them, trying to push their chair, but even to their own. So as someone that has spent hours and hours with different people with different disabilities, and often people who struggle like you've, I will do nothing. Until help is asked, and it's amazing what you can what you can see and learn from. I also, I treat people like that as a physio therapist, and I do the same with my children as well. It's a it's a really good skill set to to wait for when people actually ask for help. And there's also a great book, I'm not sure if it's in your bookshelf, called the Coaching Habit. Oh, yes. Yes, have you got Coaching Habit. They're
Daniel Franco:not sure if it's on their show, but I've definitely listen to the audio.
Katrina Webb:And his philosophy is a great TED talk called how to tame the advice monster, or even that help monster
Daniel Franco:is another few podcasts. He was on the Brene Brown podcast, I
Katrina Webb:believe, and what I love about his seven questions, and it's not until question five, where you actually ask how, what what help would you what would you like me to help you with? Yeah, correct. Question five. Like that, for me is fascinating. There's four other questions that you actually ask someone before before you actually say, Can I help you but you don't even say can I help you? You actually say what would you like me to help you with? Yeah. And that for me is such a wonderful model that as human beings we love to help and that's a beautiful skill set. And I'm not saying we don't it's actually knowing when is the right that is the skill set is knowing when is the right time, like if I'm treating a patient on a weekend. A lot of people that might not have my skill set can see that I might they might think I'm me You know, someone's just had a knee replacement and I'm making them get out of bed the next day without my help. And of course, I'll help them if they really struggle, I want to see what people can do. And I'll say to people, Look, I'm here, I want to see what you can do. And then you let me know when you need help is different than me trying to grab their leg and wisdom out. And I often say to people, I want you to do it first. Because if you if you if you get hurt, then you can blame yourself and not
Daniel Franco:it's is a really important point because there's this desire for wanting and especially if you think about kid like your own children's desire to want the best for them. If we want to help there for you, you do help, and you end up doing it for right and so you actually it actually falls apart. I never forget there was this book that I read. I cannot remember the name. It was similar to that it was almost like a spin off of Carol Dweck mindset. It's about the you know, the, the positive mindset, growth mindset and fixed mindset. And there was a the author, she has a teenage son. And he was working on this math assignment the whole weekend, right? Matt's assignments due Monday, working on the whole weekend, put hours and hours and hours. And she was proud, really proud. You know, my son's doing everything. And he's not real academic, you know. So this was actually something quite big for him. And Monday morning comes he gets on the bus and goes to school. And the mother sees that he left the math homework on the on the table. And so she puts his post up on Facebook and says, What do I do I take the math homework to knowing all this effort that he's put in over the weekend or the Y lip. See what happens. And the the story, the way it goes with everyone on Facebook was a split decision, as it was she said, right. I'm going to just see what happens. I'm not going to take it to school, I'm not going to get him out of the shit, right. And he comes home that night. And she's like really had to like really knows about what had happened because it was this big assignment and whatnot. And he comes home and he sees the math homework on the time exhaustion. There's my maths homework. And she was like, Okay, I was expecting a different reaction, like freaking out and he goes, he got she saw what happened today is well, I went to school, and I went to take the math homework to hand it out to the math teacher. And I didn't have it. So I said to him, I said to him, Hey, I've done my math. I'm like, I know all about it. This is what I did. This is the way I did it. Am I able to hand it up tomorrow? And the message teacher said Yeah, well, you've clearly done it. Because I can hear by the way, you're speaking Yeah, just bring it in tomorrow, no problems. So in that moment, the boiler negotiation skills, right, and a skill that he wouldn't have otherwise learned if the mother had taken him get. So I think it's just a really important point. Yeah. And that coaching habit of letting people make mistakes, letting them fail, letting them fall over, don't want to see anyone get hurt or injured. But letting them even if they are hurt, that's where the resilience piece comes in. Right? They are they just another building block? Yeah, that Well,
Katrina Webb:that's it I know. And then what I do know is yes, we teach resilience skills, and we teach evidence based resilience skills. And I also do know that you want people to fall you want people to, I can tell you from the moments when I failed. Like in Sydney, I you know, I won gold in Atlanta, and I was going to win, you know, of course, you win gold, you want to back it up. And in Sydney, I want to silver and bronze, and I felt like I'd failed. Because I didn't want any personal bests in Sydney. Now that sucks. Like you spent four years between games. I mean, this game has been five like four years, you get a degree in four years, you land and an event the biggest event that you've been training for and you don't personal best. Like that, for me was a really hard moment. And I Yes, I was grateful to win silver and bronze. When I'm totally honest with people I actually came home and, and spent more time with my psychologist, again, I'm packing it because I felt like I'd failed. And I will say in that moment, though of unpacking something and it's so important then when you do fail or you have that crisis moment that you take the time to reflect and you go and talk to somebody and and get asked really good questions when there's no there's no time on this. We all we all go through crisis points and they can be really small to our computer. You know, yeah, having a virus to them something bigger like me failing and at a world stage event to other things, but the time you know, it takes people different amount of time to get through things. But when I sat down with this psychologist, she asked me some incredible questions that actually defined my next four years of my life, which helped me to get back to a goal, which was extraordinary. And I don't know if I would have I honestly don't know if I would have learned those lessons. One of my biggest learnings from that Daniel is when I've told you I love to help people. I love helping people. It's a it's a very good strength of mine, I can do it really well, I know that every strength of ours, underplayed or overplayed becomes a weakness. And I was overpaying helping people, I hadn't been taught how to put boundaries in place, I didn't even know what that looks like, I have another great value of when I say yes to something, I don't bail out. It's a part of what I want. So if you asked me to do this podcast, it would take a lot for me to not be here. If I say yes, I'll deliver. And so then I was saying yes to helping people. And so I'm staying true to my integrity, but I didn't have any boundaries. So what happened in Sydney is I had said yes to every opportunity to come my way that there was no way I could run a personal best in Sydney. And my psychologist asked me this question, she said, Are you happy with being at a silver metal level, there's nothing wrong with it. If you're happy with silver, then keep doing things like you're doing. And she said, I know that you're not because we wouldn't want to get back to a gold medal level and go middle level for me is about excellence. You know, it's excellence in businesses excellence in my family unit, it's about how do I bring my best self, to whatever that context is. If if you want to get back to that, she said, You need to make some significant changes. And that moment gave me so much clarity. My clarity in that was I then had to come home and write down a list of everything that I'd said yes to Yeah, I had to learn how to say no. How to Learn to say no. And for me, it was how do I need to say, because I struggled with saying no, I don't know, there's probably lots of people the same year. And I hadn't found a way to say no, that suited my personality. And how I explained that is I can say no with love now, like for me, I found ways to say, what does that look like for me? It'll be instead of outright? No, I can't do that. It'll be look, you know, I've, for instance, last week, I got asked to sit on another board. And my answer was very clearly, look, I love what you do. I really, you know, you do great work in the community, I have just joined this board and this board. And I know I'm at full capacity right now. So I will say no to that, you know, to this opportunity. Keep doing great work. And if an opportunity arises in the future, where my timing is, is available, I would love to talk further. And I might even say however, I know that so and so is looking for an opportunity. Yes. So I'm really clear. I know that I've worked out how to measure my capacity that I can function set your boundaries, right boundaries. And I might want if I really want to say yes to that one, because that might have been a board that I've been wanting to be on forever, then I know that then I've got to look at my other computer first. Yeah. And wait. Yeah. And, and it might be that someone asked me to do something. And I'll say I really love working with you. I love what you do. I don't have the time, right.
Daniel Franco:Yeah, there's another there's a podcast, Tim the Tim Ferriss show? Have you ever heard that? Yeah, yeah. So he's one of the more popular podcasts, but he has a rule. And I'm not going to say the exploitive, but it's, it's if to decide whether you want to do something or not. It's either a F Yeah. Or it's a no. Right? You've actually got to be fully invested? Or it's a no, yes. And that it's and
Katrina Webb:if it's fully invested, what does that look like? Because that's, you know, you want to say you want to say an excellent Yes. And know that you can deliver? Yeah, correct. And so if you're going to say yes to something, what else does that look like? And when you do say no. And actually, for some people, even saying no, out loud, can be the first step. Because if you're someone that loves to please people, and you know, for me, it was really linked to, I've got to show people that I'm good enough. Yes, I do love helping people. But it was also around, making sure people knew that I was capable. And so learning to say no, has been an powerful gift of mine. What I also try and do is even if it's going to be an FTA I wait 24 hours, because I go and talk to my team, my family. You know, when I had this role that came up with going to Tokyo, and I said I'll get back to you of course I want to say yes, but I did say to the producer, I said to her, I'll get back to you. How long have I got and you know, I just speak it's a month away. When I go to Tokyo I am gone for a whole month it will be two weeks in quarantine. I mean, you know, so yeah. And I had to speak to my you know, my husband and my kids and and to make sure that you know, what is everyone on board with this because it's not just about what I want to do. And of course, my husband was fantastic. It's like, of course, we have. He said, we've got your back. Yeah, yeah. Which is helpful. Yeah.
Daniel Franco:There's, there's a lot, there's a bit to unpack in that. And one thing I will say is I going back to the psychology point of view. And you mentioned earlier about, currently, we're looking at how do we stop? Instead of getting to the point where there is burnout or stress and all this sort of stuff? How do we Yeah, so I'm one of those people I've like, actually speak to someone which is, and to me, it was never about I'm at a point that I need to speak to someone other than the simple fact of I've just got, you know, if you can drop a piece of string, and it just been two bunches up on the ground, I just almost feel like that's talking about it will help me just pick the tip of the string off. And it just unwinds. Right. And so that's really how I thought and I thought this person, they may or may not help me when I speak to him. But really, what it's going to do is just allow me to talk and get whatever's off my chest. And I when I walk out of that room, I'm on top of the world purely because I've just gone there, because I'm in a position similar to yourself, we don't really have too many people to speak to and, and let it all out on and, and, and you've got to almost keep this image about you this clean cut image. And so when you get into that room with someone, you can just go this is what's happening. And those questions that they asked a really you can actually haven't even thought about it that way. And that's a good, that's a really good, different perspective on what so I do encourage you to do that.
Katrina Webb:Absolutely. And, and yes, find someone. And I also will say there are so many good resources out there we are living in the information age, you know, there's so many wonderful TED talks, there's so many great books. You know, one of my favorite books that really helped me to in fact, I asked one of my friends who is a psychologist, the same question you asked me before. Why did I hide? Like, why do human beings hide? And she said to me, she answered, I was writing a blog at the time, and she wrote something around it. And then she said to me go and read the happiness trap by Dr. Russ Harris. And I probably read that 12 or 13 years ago, and I read it and just went, this is exactly me, this is what I've done. I'm a human. And this is why we and it was such a wonderful book that I highly recommend people if they haven't read that one. And then I loved it that much that I went and did his training. And now in the well being and resilience programs that I run, they've actually got psychological flexibility as a key component of the programs. And in fact, the Australian Institute of Sport, I'm a part of a program that they run that is connecting gold medalist with potential gold medalists. And the framework that psychologists have chosen to work from from a national perspective is using the same workers, you know, act which is acceptance, Commitment Therapy, and how do you learn to become psychologically flexible when it's a such a wonderful skill set that I knows really helped me to find and unlock my potential. And except my difference
Daniel Franco:is so good. So I want to skip to your, you know, there's so much I've got, I've got so many questions, but it's just I'm trying to I'm really conscious of your time too. So, you have spoken in a TEDx talk, right? So I want to ask about that. But I also want to ask about Kokoda track and the Mount Everest base camp. It seems like you just keep throwing yourself into difficulty. Can you and not and not just ever Yeah, which there but there are all three of those items are on my bucket list that you've done. So
Katrina Webb:any any lockdown last year, I took 120 people to the top of Everest virtually because my team in Nepal could earn no money. And I remember being on job keeper and you know, still being able to earn money and thinking how do I keep my team employed in Nepal. So there's 120 people around Australia and the world. In fact, we did a virtually and took people to the top of Mount Everest, which was so much fun. And you're right one of my values is adventure. I like to, to adventure, you know, to try new things and to be adventurous. I know a part of goodwill being mental health and well being is doing hard stuff, and challenging yourself and getting out of your comfort zone because I know when I get out of my comfort zone, that's when my protective thoughts turn up a lot more. And it gives me a chance to be able to put my skills into place I know where most of my magic that's happened in my life is way out of my comfort zone. So I need to get out of it a lot more often to be able to, if I choose to walk code or or choose to do Basecamp ever is out of my comfort zone. And then it allows me to practice those moments for them when there is a TEDx opportunity or big business opportunity. Or when I get asked to do something on channel seven, which scares me still but and I know that I can I can do it. So, I love a challenge. And because I'm not an athlete anymore, I know that's a part of me that I don't go and compete in track and field on weekends, I've done enough sport I'm not interested at all in competing. I don't want to run a personal best ever again. However, I love to that athlete in me still wants to be challenged. About two months ago, probably longer, I ran 24 kilometers without much training at all. And that I don't, I'm not suggesting people to do this at all. I do exercise. Normally, if I was going to run a half marathon, I would prepare properly for it. I didn't do it to run a half marathon. I did it. It was trail running that my brother in law organized. I did it for my mental fitness. Because I knew I wasn't physically prepared. But I didn't care if I walk and ran. I wanted to test how I managed it mentally was I going to give up wasn't gonna walk away when I got when it got really hard. What was my mental fitness going to do? And so other people go, That sounds really stupid. I'd never do that Katrina yet. That's what I know. That will help him too.
Daniel Franco:And this comes back to the sport psychology thing. I'm talking about it. I really believe that you. I don't know what it is because people are just ran my first half marathon not long ago, it took me six months to prepare for that. So damn good. But I still couldn't walk for a week after that. I'm driven by the pain that is associated with it. Like there is nothing everyone. I actually love going out and running in the rain in the hail when the winds blowing again, I because I just thought well, no one else is doing the
Katrina Webb:same. And you're alive. Yeah, I know. Yes. I know that, that. Some people have that and others not. I completely respect that. Yeah, I love I love a challenge. I love to move my body. And also, I've seen enough, I've seen plenty to know that tomorrow, my body might not move. Yeah, and I'm serious about this. If you know if you have a body that moves, move it. And until it's taken away from you. You wished you did like I don't want to live tomorrow wishing I want to live today knowing that if I die tomorrow, or something happens to me tomorrow, I I'm okay with it, if that makes sense. I do normally spend a lot of time in Nepal, I normally would spend five weeks a year in Nepal. And it's the gift that that's given to me over the last six years is to help me find I think I call spiritual literacy. I didn't have it, I think I've always had it. And going to Nepal for the last six, seven years has really helped me define what spiritual literacy is for me, because most people, if they do a values and action survey, spirituality comes 24 for them. Most people say I'm not spiritual. In fact, for me, it's my most important thing. And it's not based in religion. And in fact, I said, I didn't have it for a long time because I didn't belong to a church or wasn't a part of a religious faith. Yet I'm deeply spiritual. And so to navigate my spiritual literacy, which is an incredible part of my mental health and well being, you know, my spirituality exists in connection with nature, you know, climbing mountains, getting into the jungle is part of my spiritual literacy. living according to my values, and on purpose, contributing to others, and helping others for the greater good is, is my spiritual literacy. And it's a really important part of my day to day. And really, I do know it, particularly around when your purpose LED. There's research coming out now that purpose is one of the things that can really strongly contribute to your mental health. Yeah, yeah, we're going to see a lot more around it soon. So yeah, it's and I, in Nepal, I tap into the Buddhist philosophy. I have a great Buddhist teacher across there, who's a Rinpoche, which means he's like a master and got a PhD in Buddhism, and being present and being in the moment. And the amount I've learned from him around teaching me and, again, with all these wonderful books and teachers and TEDx talks out there that we don't have, I think we've been living in this illusion of things a certain way. And I never have because I've been a Paralympian, I've seen things happen to people have worked in hospitals as a physio and I've seen tragedy happen to people. I know that life's uncertain. And I think for a long time, we've been living in his comfortable position that life is certain. It never has been. And so my personal philosophy is if I can build my inner strength and resources and tools and work on them as much as I can, that I can feel confident today that whatever happens tomorrow that I've, you know, I've been building enough to be be able to get through whatever happens tomorrow. Yeah. And there's a piece in there there is that down without Yeah, it's and I'm really thankful for for for all of those learnings cross culturally across the oceans for thanking
Daniel Franco:you for sharing it with us. But put me on the list for base camp by the way.
Katrina Webb:Yes, I have another one coming when we can travel again. Yeah, I'm on
Daniel Franco:I mean time off work but I mean why would I want to jump into why we're talking about putting yourself in silly and difficult situations you've got to start adhering to businesses got silver, the golden New Day to both amazing businesses, silver and gold works with companies in the in the mental health and wellbeing space and New Day leadership is a fantastic event and does so much for the community. You must you must have this desire to wanting to put yourself in situations that I mean, especially what's happened with new day in the past couple of years with and recently, you know, 600 people in the last minute could have potentially been shut down you got through this constant feeling of, of you know, that sick feeling that you get in your stomach when things just so uncertain. Yeah, you must have that consistently.
Katrina Webb:Yeah. Yeah. And I suppose I've just answered, the question to be able to do that is, is if you work on those inner resources and your your skill set. And I know when we're delivering resilience training, we have images of boats, like if you're sailing in a small boat and the oceans nice and calm, then you feel resilient, right? I don't know if I would say because I don't know how to sail. But let's say we know how to say yes. But then the weather gets choppy, and the ocean gets more. And so if we talk about your preparation for the storm versus the storm severity, so your resilience starts to change based on how much preparation you've done and how severe the storm is. And if it's an ocean is, you know, incredible waves and you've got a small boat, then you're not going to be very resilient, because you're just not going to be prepared for that. Imagine if you could build a really big boat. Yeah. So I love that philosophy of trying to build myself a really big boat to weather the storms of life. Because I know tomorrow, there'll be a storm that I didn't expect coming. So yeah, look, running two businesses has is amazing. I you know, I went through school, I was Ducks of my high school again, because I work hard. And I was trying to prove to people that I'm good enough. And, you know, there's some good things that come out of that. And when you do well at school, you go into my ear anyway, I'm 44 you become a lawyer or a doctor or a physio or there wasn't many choice back then. To be honest, I don't even know when an entrepreneur was some people went to business and commerce. However, I am really creative. And my creativity was encapsulated through sport. And then when I stopped doing sport, I realized that my creativity that happened on the field, had to go other places. And to be an entrepreneur now to have two businesses. I love I love I think also being an athlete that was from a sport that was an individual sport, I feel like that happens, you know, when you work for yourself, you're responsible for all of your, your success as well and failures. And so one of the thing that did lead me to being self employed though, was when I was an athlete, I was mentored by a fabulous my man in South Australia called Mark Cahoon. And that came well as a part of sassy, sassy. We're trying to also look after us and gave us really good mentors. And I remember Mark saying to make a trainer, you have a unique opportunity as an athlete, a very small window to be able to set yourself up for the long term. I mean, I was at uni studying to be a physio. So I thought I had a career that did the right thing that he said. He said, I've seen so many athletes not do this well, that when they retire, they have nothing. And so in that five years I spent with him, he taught me a lot of incredible amount about business. I learned all of my business acumen not from university but from being mentored by a business person. He taught me how to build relationships. He taught me as an athlete that was a Paralympian who was trying to get support and sponsorships how to be unique, and how to build that value proposition to establish, you know, a really good successful business. And so he he got a business name, we got an idea and this was in 2000. This is 21 years ago, and I was in 30 physio, and I have had a business going since so for 21 years and as the times progressed, I've gone to being full time and then develop new day. So I've loved doing the consultancy work as Katrina Webb around you know, high performance solutions, wellbeing solutions, a lot in the leadership space as well, particularly with women which has been amazing and a lot around diversity inclusion. And then there was a part of me that again, I wanted to create a product that didn't have mean it and I and people that are business owners or have their own brand To know that I know what my value set is, if I this is this is the conversation I have with myself, and I'm very open to it if I die tomorrow, Katrina Webb and my business ceases. If I'm living through purpose and legacy, how can I create something that doesn't need me to be in it? Can I create a brand that is really what I care about values and get a collective of people that have similar values together, that we could do something for the greater good. And that's when New Day was birthed is around, creating a platform around inspired leadership for the greater good for people on the planet. And we were, you know, it was birthed in five, five years ago. And it was myself and my father as my support team. And, and we we put on an event around, you know, looking at leadership and leadership for the greater good. And, and what drove me behind that as well was yes, creating a brand that was not me on stage at all. My first, if people come to New Days, I'd really don't even go on stage. It's, it's not about my brand. It's about finding great people to go to pretty good emcee. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. See, also, I also came from a lot of conferences where people would often say to me, you were the highlight of the day, the rest of the conference was boring, like, conferences don't need to be boring. They can they, they, your people's energy is your responsibility. So a new day, we have massage, we, we try and think of all different elements to keep people engaged, it's a bit more of like a festival in a sense. And I also know that my dad has been a part of rotary for a long time, and I have this feeling that three, my generation service clubs aren't that popular anymore, which is about doing good. Yeah. And I also know that, you know, religion has been around, doing good, and I love that about religion, about serving others and doing good. And not everyone is part of a religion, you know, church or religious life,
Daniel Franco:it's declining scanning. So
Katrina Webb:I thought, you know, workplaces do this well, with CRS, you know, their corporate social responsibility strategies, and I do know that humans at our core want to do good. So how can we create an event and then a platform that shares stories about, you know, helping others and, and doing good? And we've found a really lovely spot in the marketplace? That we have not for profits? Can we have, you know, corporates, can we have governments, we have individuals that really care. And that's just been a wonderful thing, to be honest, that, you know, if I, if I die tomorrow, and I could, that I really tried to encapsulate what I've learned in life, and how we can pass that baton on to other people to,
Daniel Franco:yeah, that's the role of all entrepreneur in it. Well, not the role of a lot. It's a key goal for people who want to build something sustainable. Yeah, you know, if they're, if they are purpose led, and they're driven about changing the world, or we're changing people in the community, or helping people or adding value in some way, shape or form, then building a sustainable business is the option, right? Because it can't just rely on you, because I that's gonna wear you out, and then you're not going to be passionate about it. But if you can help others, and bring bring together a team, a community, and all of a sudden your community every year, I see it as expanding. So it's an amazing product.
Katrina Webb:And it's living in its living condition free. And you mentioned earlier on around when we condition ourselves, and we want to control everything. If that's you and your personality, I'm sure you would have found this last 18 months very difficult. And I,
Daniel Franco:that is me. That's why
Katrina Webb:I like to have like, it doesn't mean you don't organize things, you don't have a plan. I often speak to groups about this. And I've learned it also learn from people that do it really well. And having three sons and working, you know, with my husband and a team. I've also watched him and learn from him in a wonderful way of what he does well, and when I run leadership programs, particularly particularly for women, we often talk about this. And so I normally would travel, you know, five weeks a year, which is a long time to be away from home. And I love it. Like I love my kids and my husband and I also love Katrina, we're going abroad and doing what I do over there. And my husband has traveled a lot. And I would watch him when he would travel, he would pack his bag, and he would go by and I would go by and he would have a great trip. He'd come home, I'd say Hi nice to home. You know, you're all about it. And he never put food never cooked meals for us. He never organized babysitting. He knew that I had it all under control. And I never resented him traveling. And he had a great trip and I'd come back and it was great. And I thought okay, I'm going to learn from that because he wasn't even carrying any guilt about leaving, and he really helped me out And so when I go, now I go pack my bag and I go bye, bye. And it all gets figured out. And and what I say from that is the more conditions I place on myself in my environments, the harder it is to be able to do things. And so surrendering control in those spaces has really helped, not only me to do the things that I love, it's also helped, you know, my family. And there's things now that happened in my family that I wasn't even that good at that my husband was that we've kept those things in place. And that happens in workplaces as well as the same with new day, the more I can let go, the more amazing ideas come into it. And the more opportunity yes to grow is powerful, isn't it?
Daniel Franco:Going back to your point before and I'll paraphrase is that your greatest strength is also your biggest kryptonite, right? That I feel like that in itself is the control element. For me. One of my greatest strengths is similar to yours being able to read the play, I can see three or four steps ahead. But then it's also I've got this cog in my head that just spins practicality, this is the way it should run because it makes the most sense. But knowing that the world doesn't revolve that way. It's something that I always get caught up in. It just makes sense for it to be that why is this happen? And it's not till I sort of do step back, take myself away from the situation, give myself 24 hours or whatever it might be, I might freak out for that first 24 hours. But then I look back. And that's when I recreate this, the B's, the C's and DS and E's. And yes, it's a skill set that I'm working on, you know, how do I control that first 24 hours and not get that sick feeling and not yes, that anxiety creeping and not get that feeling of wanting to control all the time. It's a it's a constant fight. It's a constant battle. But
Katrina Webb:I'd say it's a great battle. And I in terms of when you talk about leadership and even personal development. One of the great things I've learned is when you know your strengths, and that's a great strength of yours, when we're looking at developing our teams and our you know, organizations or even our family units is we have wonderful strengths, and often they're they overplayed. So if we're looking for development opportunities is actually going well, that's a really great strength of yours, Daniel, how do we get that balance between over playing and under playing, right? Instead of looking at weaknesses to develop, actually, let's look at where our strengths of maybe you know, every strength of ours taken to an extreme actually becomes our weaknesses. So I love to help people look at what they do really well, and then help them to put those checks and balances. Just like I said, around, I'm great at helping people but to an extreme. I underperforming help now. So what do those boundaries or those checks and balances look like? What boundaries do we need to put into place that can really help to bring our strengths to the forefront? And why
Daniel Franco:is that? So going into the work that you do with with companies and mental health well being? What are some of the biggest or more? What are some of the trends that you're seeing right now in the current world with leadership? Yeah, and the way we are working? Because look, there's resilient programs, right. And you and I've talked about this offline that you can, you can have a Resilience Program. And it's not just a checkbox, it's not just a half day workshop, and all of a sudden, yeah, people are resilient. Because I've done a half the work, it doesn't work that well. Yeah. How do you build resilience within your company? How do you concentrate solely on their mental health and well being? What are some of the tips and tricks that you can provide us? Yeah, I want to give away all your secrets.
Katrina Webb:So there's a couple of trends in you know, and where a lot of my work is coming from now is, of course, for a long time, self leadership. And, and if if leadership simply for me is around Unlocking Potential if I if I look at the simplest form of leadership, it's actually about unlocking other people's potential. And of course, within that strategy, and often we skip the step of unlocking our own. Yeah, and we go to help everyone else. And then my strong question to people is, if you haven't done that work on yourself, then people see through it. And if you haven't done that work on the hard stories of your life, there'll be a moment that triggers you and leadership that you need to unpack anyway. I love a book called TrueNorth by Bill George, for a year and I love when he talks about crucibles in our life. And for me who's had this story, and I've been working in a space for 21 years to read Bill's book, and to know, this is what they teach in Harvard. And for him to have all those case studies in there that talk about leaders, you know, CEOs of large companies that haven't dealt with their hard moments in their life they've put on the carpet are like other people's on I'll spend time helping other people unlock their potential, but I wouldn't do mine because that's hard. Yeah, that's right. I can tell you what the hard stuff people call this soft skills I would love to read, call them the hard skills because the hardest skills is to go within and to look at your own stories and your own moments where things were hard and And what you know, bill talks about in his book, he calls them crucibles. And I love that because it's that that many evil vessel, it was a crucible that you would melt down things and transform them. And he talks about that when we have these moments of, you know, hardship or crisis that if we can transform out of him, what he does know from his research is that's where extraordinary leaders are created. So I love to talk about and teach a concept of self leadership and work with teams and leaders around going back and looking at your own foundations and combining that with well being and resilience and also high performance coming from you know, gold medalist, who is also a physiotherapist. So that's where my specialty lies. So self leadership leading yourself first for the in the greater good of people. Well, being leadership is another term that we have never heard. But I'm seeing a more common this trend around what well being leadership have you got in your organization? And like you said, it's, it's actually putting a program in place that creates behavior change. So I've, I was the first trainer, first person that got trained in South Australia, beyond the actual team of B. Well, CO. So out of summary, they've got a program called the b Well plan. And I've, I've got a license, and I'm a trainer of that program. Why did I buy into that program? Why do I facilitate that now, because it's a there's, there's quite a few models of it. But the core model is that it's a two hour program, five weeks in a row. So you have a group for two hours each week and you teach skills, there's a lot of reflection in it. There's a lot of excellent frameworks that have really strong evidence. So the B will plan programs, they spent three years developing it by looking at 429 different interventions that contribute to mental health and well being and then looked at the ones with the strongest evidence. So it's a program that goes for five weeks, I love that it has masterclasses. So we know that behavior change takes time, and you like you running your half marathon, it took six months, if people don't have any mental health and well being strategies in it, we give them the ones with the strongest evidence. And then we teach a program, actually over a year, we come back and do master classes. And one of the reasons why I love this program as well is because as a physio therapist, if you came to me with a sore knee, and then someone else came to me with a sore knee, and I didn't even check in, I just went here go, here's the exercises, go off and do them, you'll get better. I know you won't. So in mental health and well being similar watch the be well program has done has put in 30 different activities that are have evidence around them in terms of building mental health and well being and resilience. And you get to try them and test them. And if you don't like them, you don't you pick the ones that work for you. And it's precision based. And I love that. Because as an allied health worker, it is about precision. It's not about coming in and going, Okay, I'll teach that skill to all of my organization, you're resilient. Now off you go. And then I've heard a few things on the grapevine that when people break down, people are saying, Oh, they're not resilient enough. They're not good enough to be here. We've got to get rid of them. Like, this takes time. And it's got to accommodate everyone
Daniel Franco:starting at a different point. Yeah, yes.
Katrina Webb:So there are, there's amazing organizations that are taking the people are
Daniel Franco:saying they're not resilient enough. They, my response back to them is you're not self aware. And I wonder why? Well,
Katrina Webb:when you put the mirror up, you know, one of my Buddhist teachers, I love this, and I'm sure you've heard it before, but when you go to point your finger at someone and to have a go at them, or blame them, there's three pointing back at you. Yes, true. Yeah. And you can see that right now. So when I go to anyone, if I go to have a go at someone, I go, Oh, what is this reflecting me that I don't like about myself? Or I haven't got happening in my own life. Someone says that about someone else. Often if you ask, well, what are your what tools that have you got in your kit? That are evidence based that you regularly practices habits, then yeah, they probably don't have too many.
Daniel Franco:No, no, it does that we are living in a world where technically great people have been put into leadership roles. And there's a lot of work there is a lot of ego floating around at the moment as well. And there's the shortage of well, there's no shortage of jobs. I think there's a lot of this actually really difficult to try to get people so people are stepping on people there's a lot of play in the market at the moment. So we're seeing income from all that not only from the world of the pandemic where the unknown of what's happening, but it's also there's this there's this skills grab at the moment and desire to reach the top quicker now because I can it's almost like the housing industry, right? The prices are going up. The pay for some of these roles are going up. It's the same thing. We're seeing it across the board. So it's it's just the crazy old world at the moment. We're trying to navigate our way through.
Katrina Webb:It is. And I mean, within that, if you haven't got great leadership skills, it's it can't he can't hide that. No. And I think karma in itself comes around that people move on quickly. It's something that you might be able to fake for a while and get places for a while. But what we do know is that, you know, good leaders, and good leadership. People can see can see through it. Yeah, something you.
Daniel Franco:Just you staff turnover. Yeah, that's exactly right. Like people are gonna leave, because there's opportunities. And yes, as leaders, we should help grow people. So they have opportunities elsewhere, and they can create more impact in other organizations, no problems. But when your turnover is just consistent purely because of bad leadership or school management, then, yeah, then that's when the problem is that's it, we, we are well past probably the time where we should be only know about when an error, so we won't keep you too much longer. But we do have we do finish off the show with or actually first, finish off the show with quick fire questions. But before we go into that, what does the future look like the Katrina web?
Katrina Webb:I don't know. Yeah.
Daniel Franco:Any? What was the next? Commentary?
Katrina Webb:Yeah, it's an interesting question, isn't it? I mean, I, I, I simply look at life in terms of, you know, really having clarity on what I want to be known for, am I putting those values into action, and contributing from that purpose led and as long as I'm anchored in purpose and values. What I do know is when I do that, well, amazing opportunities come. And I'm not bothered by that when I it's happened to me consistently, consistently, since I've won gold medals, you know, I've had opportunities to speak at the UN. I've had opportunities, like I said, before, to share the stage with and have dinner with Usain Bolt and Richard Branson, and speak, you know, into to have dinner with Branson and ask the questions I always dreamed of asking him to then, you know, get a phone call this year from Channel Seven to have this other opportunity that will extend me. What I do know is that works. And so if I keep myself anchored in those philosophies, people see them and people want you to be a part of their team. And then these wonderful future opportunities come up. It doesn't mean I'd live in this world. You know, I love creating new ideas. I love transforming and thinking of how can we do things better? I am really excited about doing some TV work. That will be a new new adventure for me and a new opportunity maybe I'm sport has really pulled me back in I haven't been haven't been deliberate in being involved in sport. I never want to coach I don't want to physio in sport. However I've had. Sport keeps pulling me back in terms of leadership opportunities. One of my exciting opportunities is actually on part of the leadership team for the next Commonwealth Games in Birmingham next year. So I'm working with Patria Thomas, who's our shifter mission. I'm working alongside of enemies, insurer McMahon, and Tim Mahan, who's our chief executive officer. And so to have an opportunity from a leadership point of view to we're taking our team of, you know, four to 600 I'm not sure what to Birmingham. That's exciting for me. So I'm now taking my skills that I've learned through this last 21 years back to sport and that wasn't my choice sports asking me to so that's that's exciting, actually
Daniel Franco:amazing the way things can Yeah, like the way the universe talks.
Katrina Webb:That's right. So it for me, it's, I really feel so comfortable in the fact that I'm, I've learned about leadership, I really love well being and resilience and mental health and in sport, the the things that I've learned to master over the last 21 years, the universe's kind of bringing them all together now for me to go to the next who knows what's next, but it excites me. Yeah. And then we Brisbane, Brisbane 2032. You never know, I couldn't have a roll a deep roll of bringing, I would love. I would love that to bring the Paralympics to Australia in 2032. You know, I'll be 55 a great opportunity for me to really get into some legacy work there would be amazing. Yeah,
Daniel Franco:we'll be sitting back watching the show. Because Trina Webb show some quickfire questions? Okay. You've rattled off a few books. today. We're big. We're big. Big reading company here be reading. Yeah. We love our books. What are you reading right now?
Katrina Webb:Oh, I'm actually finishing untamed. I've been enjoying I'm listening. I'm a good audio book.
Daniel Franco:Do you ever say,
Katrina Webb:I've nearly finished? I got about 20 minutes left on that. I really enjoyed that one.
Daniel Franco:What's one book, you've recommended the happiness trap? Early? What's another book that you can recommend for for a leader? Who is, let's, let's put it in the perspective of a leader who is looking to improve themselves. And first, as opposed to seeking to improve others.
Katrina Webb:One of my other favorites, braving the wilderness, very Brene. Brown, if you haven't read that one. I love that one. I thought it was brilliant. I'm a big fan of her work. Yeah. But finding yourself and where you belong. Yeah. When you realize you don't belong anywhere, you belong everywhere. Yeah, she's. And that's what leaders that's what you need to. If you're driven by ego, and belonging, you've really got to unpack that. So. Yeah, braving the wilderness would be my suggestion.
Daniel Franco:Sure. My business partner went and spent time with Brene. Awesome America, like, oh, so we're be Brene. She's accredited in that data leads us to dead leads really
Katrina Webb:loved it. Yeah. A couple of days of dead links. Love that work. That's exciting.
Daniel Franco:Beautiful. So you've been at? You've sat next to Usain Bolt, Richard Branson, shared the stage with Jack Ma, I've seen photos with you was next to Roger Federer. If you could have if you could invite someone or three people over for dinner? Yeah, who would they be?
Katrina Webb:That's a great question. See, Richard Branson was always on my list. And I often ask people the same thing. Because once you have clarity, you actually can. It can. It can happen. That moment, I remember going, I always wanted to meet him. And now I'm chatting to him about database stuff, which was really amazing. Who would be on my list of it's really interesting question. I would love to with my link to Buddhism, I would love to have the Dalai Lama at the dinner table. And who else am I enjoying at the moment? And great questions at Brene. Brown. I haven't met her yet. She's on my to do Yeah. Well, she Yeah. Getting speakers involved in some of the programs I ran out loved. I'd love to have her on an event. That's that, you know, I say to people just just have these big hairy goals. I don't even care if they Yeah,
Daniel Franco:they could it just comes at a price. Right.
Katrina Webb:Putting in provisions on that, but you never know. When you've said three, haven't you? Who would my third one be? today? I'm not sure I'm just gonna have two today.
Daniel Franco:So yeah, don't worry. You've talked about some of the advice received, what's the one thing that hands down changed was the was the time we the turning point in your life? What some advice that you've received? Yeah.
Katrina Webb:You know, talk to someone like actually talk to someone that knows how to talk you through your thinking, whether that psychologist or a counselor, I would say to people have a great professional support team and have it written down when times are good, know who you can go and talk to. And it's not a sign of weakness. It's a sign of greatness, and incredible smarts that you have people to talk to. That would be as simple as that. Because when I've talked to people, that's where I've found the answers to what I need to do next.
Daniel Franco:Yeah, I love it. Build a team. Yeah, people that you can rely on.
Katrina Webb:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. If you've had
Daniel Franco:access to a time machine where would you go in one way? One not one way trip one trip up and back? Where would you go?
Katrina Webb:I would love to go to the top of Everest in a time machine. And to experience being on top of fitness. Yeah, I have no desire to climate so if the time machine could take me yeah to experience that
Daniel Franco:when when in a different era. Oh,
Katrina Webb:yeah. Gosh. Anyone? That's yeah, that would be a really lovely thing to do. That would just be to put me there like teleport like my kids would say, a time machine. Gosh, there's so many different things in who you could meet in different times. I don't know actually, that That's probably my answer there now forward back forward.
Daniel Franco:The futures line. Really nice. Yeah. See, most people want to do they want to go they want to come back. Yeah,
Katrina Webb:I think you know what I will tell you, this is me. I don't know if there's other Outlander fans out there. I know there's a lot but there's other people that don't like it. I really enjoyed how they put that together to take you back to this the Scottish Highland times. And I found that amazing, in fact, after watching that, on my list of places to go is to, to that time. So I feel like that was an experience of history in that moment of, which was extraordinary. I loved doing that. So that would be that moment, there was a really great Netflix documentary I watched recently actually, called crip. camp out. And if anyone's seen that if they want to watch something on the weekend, it's a wonderful documentary about the disability movement in America and what they did to really get human rights available for everyone. To go back into their time and to be in the room where they really found their voice. That would be extraordinary. Yeah, to see that that revolution happen. worth watching actually called crip. Camp. Yeah, it's a story that's need to be Yeah,
Daniel Franco:check it out. We'll put it in the notes. If you had one superhero power, oh, my son asked me this yesterday. Grassi prepared. No.
Katrina Webb:We have these come with three boys in the house. They're often asking me to talk about this. Oh, yeah. Like I need to know more like superhero powers. I thought we were chatting about this yesterday. And then one of my son's like, if I had a superhero power, I would ask for a wish. And then I'd ask for 1000 more wishes go along that way. Gosh, it's I find that really an interesting one. Because I my natural instinct is around, you know, being able to help people, which is which is super huge, you know, superpowers. But then I also know within that, that we go back to our conversation before that we need to allow people to, to learn themselves. Yes. And that reminds me of the beautiful quote that Kurt fearnley was asked this question, if you could go back and ask your you know, if you could go back until your 12 year old self, something, what would you tell yourself? And he said, I actually wouldn't tell my 12 year old self anything, because I've needed to learn everything. And that that is that I love that answer. Yeah. Because yes, we want to protect people. However, a part of building our character is to let people fall and fail and so on. Yeah. And I know, you know, gosh, superhuman power, like living through this pandemic is not much fun at the moment. Is it? So if you could have a super human,
Daniel Franco:take a powerful blood
Katrina Webb:rid of the virus and help us to leave? Yeah, that would be awesome. What's what's what's one of yours? What are you talking around with your?
Daniel Franco:I'll never get asked. Let me ask you. I don't really know. It's funny, because I asked this question all the time. There's, there's a typical one. Not actually I do know, it's the it's the power of knowledge. I would like to be all knowing. Oh, wouldn't it be great. You just go. I would be nosy. And if if you had to do something, you would never do it.
Katrina Webb:Yeah. Yeah. I think I could you speak in any language. And yeah,
Daniel Franco:that's it. Yeah, I could just travel anywhere, be absolutely comfortable. That in any given time, I've got the wisdom to be able to do what I need to do. Yeah, that's
Katrina Webb:cool. It would be cool to be a fly go to I think it would be awesome. Like maybe I could fly to the top of Mount Everest and not have to climb up.
Daniel Franco:The whole point of Everest climb. Is not the pain. We're talking I
Katrina Webb:have no it's funny for me, I actually that. We've talked about paying me to do that. And even though one of my best friends is an International Mountain, climb climber and guide and close six times he loves it. If I had to climb it to be with him, I'd feel like I'll be in the best hands. But when I look at risks, and yeah, for me,
Daniel Franco:yeah, I just think if you're flying Everest is no longer a great night.
Katrina Webb:I would enjoy the view without
Daniel Franco:your hire if you want to train your grandson up there and record rockets. That's true. And last joke before we finish up, you might not be prepared but your son of three boys so I'm sure you've got a shit joke somewhere. So what's your best mum joke?
Katrina Webb:Ah, I know I I'm I'm hopeless. I don't have a joke memory. And same with movie titles in same fit. I often. Remember this fun. How do you get Pikachu on the bus? Do you know the answer?
Daniel Franco:No I don't.
Katrina Webb:no, you Pokemon?
Daniel Franco:It's, it's it's gone straight into the hole of mine. Thank you very much, Katrina, it's been absolutely amazing. having you on the show and hearing your journey, you are an inspiration to all you've achieved so much in like, you know, with with your back up against the wall from an early age and, and never really I think was I really admire about us? You know, you don't actually think that way. You just think I'm human. I'm just gonna keep trucking on. Right. And that's the I think that's something that we should all take is no matter where we're starting from and what point we're at. It's just how do I keep giving and keep adding value? How do I keep trying to help people? And that seems to be the path that you've taken on. And it's very successful. So thank you for everything that you're doing for, for the community in Australia. It's amazing.
Katrina Webb:Thank you know, it's been a delight. And thank you for Yeah, wonderful questions that you've asked. And even that initial moment that you started with today's podcast that was really special. Yeah. Thank you.
Daniel Franco:No worries. Thank you very much, guys. We'll catch you next time. Cheers.
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