#40 - Rebecca Pickering, CEO of Civil Contractors Federation SA, on How Adversity, Optimism and Resilience can Shape you to Succeed.

Rebecca currently holds the position of CEO of Civil Contractors Federation SA and an Executive Director of Civil Apprenticeships and Careers Ltd. Rebecca had worked in the civil, commercial building and construction industries for over 22 years, project managing in various roles before she fulfilled her entrepreneurship streak by starting her own consultancy company an operated it for 10 plus years.

Rebecca's early projects played an integral part in the Olympic Dam Expansion Project, Southern Expressway Project (when it was one way), and the Memorial Drive Tennis Centre, all of which fostered her love of the infrastructure industry.

Rebecca is a single mother of  Shelby, 8, Harrison 10 and Busta, the dog; in her day was an ultramarathon runner where she could run 100kms in 19hours, and she loved to jump out of planes and climb rock faces too.

She was a latchkey kid who grew up in an ex Housing Trust home in Christie Downs. Her continued work with apprenticeships and building trade pathways supports her love of talking to young people, parents, the community and schools about the amazing career and life-changing opportunities Construction can provide.  Her life, her family and her career are a testament to it.

In this episode, we deep dive into Rebecca's life from her childhood where she faced some really confronting challenges, to living a life battling an autoimmune disease, to starting her own businesses, to having only 10 days off after giving birth to her children, to becoming the CEO of the Civil Contractors Federation SA.

This episode is an impactful one with essential dialogue. Rebecca's message on how she faced and overcame many adversities is an inspiration to us all.

If you enjoy this episode, please share it with your friends and colleagues, and check us out on synergyiq.com.au.

Where to find  Rebecca Pickering

• LinkedIn 

Join the conversation on Synergy IQ LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram (@synergyiq) and please support other leaders by liking, subscribing and sharing this podcast.

Access SynergyIQ Website to get to know more about us.

Say hello to our host Daniel on LinkedIn.

Books mentioned on this episode:

• Can't Hurt Me - Master Your Mind and Defy the Odds - By David Goggins
• HBR's 10 Must Reads on Strategy - Harvard Business Review Must Reads - By Harvard Business Review
• Quiet - The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking - By Susan Cain
• The Art of War - By Sun Tzu, Lionel Giles
• Mindset - The New Psychology of Success - By: Carol S. Dweck PhD
• Matthew Reilly

Transcript

Synergy IQ: 0:01

Welcome to Creating synergy where we explore what it takes to transform. We are powered by Synergy IQ. Our mission is to help leaders create world class businesses where people are safe, valued, inspired and fulfilled. We can only do this with our amazing community. So thank you for listening.

Daniel Franco: 0:20

I synergises and welcome back to another episode of The creating synergy podcast. My name is Daniel Franco and today we have the inspirational Rebecca Pickering on the show. Rebecca holds the position of the CEO of the civil contractors Federation, South Australia and he's an executive director of the civil apprenticeships and careers limited. Rebecca has worked in the civil commercial building and construction industry for over 22 years project managing in various roles before she fulfilled her entrepreneurship streak by starting her own consultancy firm and operating for 10 plus years. Some of the early projects that Rebecca played an integral part in whether your Olympic Dam expansion project the Southern Expressway project when it was one way and the Memorial Drive Tennis Center, all of which fostered her love for the infrastructure industry. Rebecca is a single mother of Shelby I in Harrison 10 And Buster her dog and in her day was an ultra marathon runner where she could run 100 kilometers in 19 hours. She loves to jump out of planes and climb rock faces too. She was a latchkey kid who grew up in an ex Housing Trust home and Christie's downs, and continued work with apprenticeships and building trade pathways supports her love of talking to young people, parents, community and schools about the amazing career and life changing opportunities. Construction can provide her life her family and her career are a testament to it. In this episode, we deep dive into Rebecca's life rubber childhood, where she faced really confronting challenges to living a life battling an autoimmune disease to starting your own business, to having only 10 days off after giving birth to her children, and then becoming the CEO of the civil contractors Federation in South Australia. His episode is a really impactful One with a very important dialogue. Rebecca's message on how she faced and overcame many adversities in life is an inspiration to us all. And a must listen. If you liked the episode, which I'm sure you will be sure to hit subscribe button. And check this out at Synergy IQ Comdata you and synergy IQ on all the social media outlets. Welcome back to the creative synergy podcast. My name is Daniel Franco, your host and today we have the lovely CEO of the civil contractors, Federation Australia CC FSA, Rebecca Pickering, welcome to the show. Thank you for coming.

Rebecca Pickering: 2:49

Thank you for having me.

Daniel Franco: 2:50

So I heard about you Well, I heard specifically about a talk that you did at the Nika Women's International, International Women's Day. And I heard that I had a friend call me after the after that after your keynote that you did there. And she said, then, if there's one person that you need to get onto the podcast, it's Rebecca. So the room was in a standstill when you were speaking and he had a pretty powerful story and a pretty amazing journey to share. Are you open to talking about how you became to where you are today? And it's definitely

Rebecca Pickering: 3:30

up to whatever I can do to share the story for everyone's benefit. Look, we'd love to

Daniel Franco: 3:36

beautiful. So we'll start growing up. Yes. Yep. That's where where it all sort of began. Yes. Are you ever sort of dive into

Rebecca Pickering: 3:44

that? Yeah. So I grew up in the housing trust suburb of Vancouver downs in old housing, trust home. So my parents had bought that home from state government. So although it wasn't a housing, trust home, it was smack bang in the middle of estates or those, those areas that were Housing Trust houses, not the ideal suburb to grow up in. Obviously, lots of youth that weren't actively engaged with the community. Quite a difficult place to be. Both mom and dad worked full time. I went to a local school, Stanford primary, more val is a state school, and then later went to Caron college through my high school. So a very interesting suburb and I grew up across the way from a train line of all things. So get out Christina and train station. Yeah, yeah.

Daniel Franco: 4:33

I actually grew up I grew up in Granger's different area altogether, but there was a train station, right through Vegas.

Rebecca Pickering: 4:38

You'd always hear it Yes. Strange that it helps you get to sleep. So

Daniel Franco: 4:42

it almost became I remember had friends sleep over once and I could hear these train sirens going off in the background like doesn't that keep you up all night? Interesting. Yes. So you had a bit of a challenging years. You had a what I immune disease such as Graves disease, yes, right? Yes. And you explain that sort of.

Rebecca Pickering: 5:03

So Graves disease is an autoimmune disease, like you point out, and it's to do with your thyroid function. So as a kid, quite young, I was diagnosed, what you would have been in about year three. And I had a large goiter, so a large lump in my neck. And so it really did stand out quite significantly, which made Primary School quite hard. So I went into the doctor's to see what this lump in my neck was and got the diagnosis that it was an overactive thyroid. So it means that your body is just in hyperdrive all the time. So I think at a resting heart rate, my heart rate was about 140 beats a minute, it meant I couldn't sit still, I didn't need much sleep. I was just always on the go. Which made it interesting for my parents, I guess, for me, I knew no different. I didn't feel sick. I didn't. I didn't feel that it was anything odd. I just I just didn't know any different.

Daniel Franco: 5:50

So you have I have seen a picture of you. And yes, there was a quiet

Rebecca Pickering: 5:54

Yeah, it's quite obvious. Yeah. And it just got bigger and bigger and bigger. What what is what was all that what was happening there? So basically, the Thor just gets in gorged on itself, he just gets by part of that over activity. He just gets really large. And yeah, just keep growing basically. Okay, so

Daniel Franco: 6:09

he's that potential we fight?

Rebecca Pickering: 6:11

Yeah, it is. So yeah, you can't manage your life like that you do have a shorter life expectancy. Obviously, if you're in hyperdrive all the time, your body just can't keep up. So it's not a healthy thing. You need a manager, it couldn't have been left just alone. It had to be managed.

Daniel Franco: 6:26

Yes. So heavy operation. And

Rebecca Pickering: 6:29

yes, so you go on to person. So I had to go on third suppressing medication for years until I hit puberty, which is around about 12 years of age, so and then they decided it was either radiotherapy to try and reduce it and to get it to be less productive. Or take it out. Given the size of it and my condition, they decided that that actually removed it in its entirety. turned out not to be the best choice.

Daniel Franco: 6:54

Okay. Yeah. A fair amount of sort of side effects there. Yeah.

Rebecca Pickering: 6:58

So it's a long surgery. It's like an eight, nine hour surgery to get it removed because of the where it's located in neck. So yeah, it's quite a hard surgery on your body. And yeah, basically, I crashed quite significantly afterwards. So body really struggled to come through it. So I was in intensive care for for three months through that recovery process over Christmas. Mind us. So I had Christmas and hospital, which is fun. And yeah, your body really struggled. So for me, I guess one of the things that I recall was you lose calcium out of your blood, which makes your body cramp so your hands go really quite stiff. You Your face spasms, it's anybody shuts down basically because it can't process without calcium in your blood. So quite a scary thing. But again, I really need no different I didn't feel sick. It's just something that you get through I didn't don't recall feeling fear or scared at the time.

Daniel Franco: 7:50

What was the recovery? Like how long until you were a little kid?

Rebecca Pickering: 7:55

So I lost my voice for about years. I lost my voice. I didn't get back till four or five months mark? Oh, wow. Because they're they're so close your vocal cords. So you sort of, you know, your huskily talking, writing things down. So it was a quite an interesting time when you can't speak as a 12 year old will 12 going on 13. So not easy. And plus starting high school as well. So again, you walk around this big scar in your neck, it looks like someone's you know, chopped you or that you've tried to do something to yourself, which wasn't that at all. So yeah, it just made it interesting conversation, I guess. Yes.

Daniel Franco: 8:29

So as part of that, your childhood and growing up, you've gone through that ordeal. And you as you mentioned in your speech, your keynote, you were also a victim of child grooming.

Rebecca Pickering: 8:43

Yes. So again, unfortunately, a boy productive growing up in a suburb that, you know, wasn't wasn't the greatest suburb my older brother, unfortunately did start connecting at a very young age with local youth that weren't making the best life choices. You know, a lot of activations crime, who was always in trouble with police. And unfortunately, for me, at that time, I'd started catching the bus home from you know, that year, year six, year five, year six. So I was often home by myself with my brother at times, you know, up until six o'clock at night, most days after school, so, a latchkey kid hanging out with much older people. And unfortunately, one of the people that was in his crowd took it to, I guess groom me for sex when I was quite young. I thought at the time that I was old enough to make those decisions for myself. It wasn't until I was in my 30s and 40s that I've been having my own children that I came to that realization that that shame I felt for all those years of making such a poor decision wasn't actually mine to make.

Daniel Franco: 9:45

No it's an Yeah, such an ordeal that you went through. What? What How old were you when

Rebecca Pickering: 9:56

I was 12? So just before my third operation, so just the same So just before I had it removed, okay, so

Daniel Franco: 10:02

this person was obviously over 18. Yes. Yep. So enough to know better. Yeah. Yeah. So if Yeah, this is a, it's a, it's a tough story to sort of listen to, I think.

Rebecca Pickering: 10:14

And I guess, just to have that conversation. I consented. And again, people arguable that statutory rape, a child can't make those determinations. But in my mind, for me, I had made that decision. And I thought I had every right to make that for myself. Yes. It's just unfortunate I was in an environment where I was making those decisions, and I perhaps shouldn't have happened. But again, like I said, I live with that responsibility and accountability for myself making that decision for decades.

Daniel Franco: 10:43

So I'm a father of two daughters, who are roughly the same age as you were. Yes. Back then, when I heard when you and I first spoke about this, it really opened the door for me in a way of thinking that I had never, yes, to be honest, it never really crossed my mind that something like this could occur. Like I understand that it can occur, but it was, it wasn't at the center of them. Right. So looking back now and learning from those experiences, as you went through and, you know, and having two young children of your own as well. Is there something that you could advise us from a parent's perspective of what to look out for? Or is there a learning from all this that you could share with us,

Rebecca Pickering: 11:29

I think, just making sure that, obviously, there is appropriate supervision for the age that your children are, are at home, particularly where there are older siblings or exposure to people beyond your immediate family or your immediate family. Because again, they're not that I had that issue. But you know, we all hear those circumstances where it does involve a family member as well. So I think it really isn't for my children, I always advise them to obviously, always have that element of trust. So so I feel and I set that environment where they can tell me anything. Nothing's ever bad enough that they can't talk to me about it, making sure that they do listen to their own that themselves, and are aware of the decisions they can make and can't make at their age, I'm lucky that my children are quite, I guess, autonomous and independent to the degree they can be at the ages. They are a minor going on 11, and nine. So you know, they can do their washing, they can help with the dishes, they can do some cooking, but again, all within supervision, and guidance. I know for myself, I wouldn't leave my children alone in an environment like that. Until Yeah, they're much much older, where they can make good informed decisions. Yeah. So yeah, I guess basically, as a parent, yeah. What's the environment in which your children are in? Make sure you've got a great trusting relationship where your children and believe they can talk to you about anything? That's probably the most important thing, I think.

Daniel Franco: 12:53

How do you it's a constant struggle to navigate that world, especially young teens.

Rebecca Pickering: 13:02

Out there, yeah. Interesting.

Daniel Franco: 13:04

Do you want to speak to your children? And, you know, you're dealing with a whole range of emotions? Yeah. Almost the the belief that they're the center of the universe, that's sort of how do you what is your advice to parents about building that relationship?

Rebecca Pickering: 13:18

I guess, and if you took my example, Mom and I didn't talk about sex at all, okay, so it's completely taboo subject, you don't talk about your body, you don't talk about any of that. So it was never, ever something that I thought I could talk to mom about. So again, with me and my children, we talk about, you know, human body, it's an amazing thing, you know, you know, your private spaces, you know, to look after yourself, you know, to ask me questions about, there's no taboo subjects in our household. You can ask me anything, and you know, I won't flinch. I don't care what it is, whether it be showy or hairy, asking me questions. We work through that. So maybe that was some of the catalyst I had, I'd thought that I'd had that relationship with my mum, I might have handled it differently. Perhaps it might have been a conversation that perhaps could have been had, but never was.

Daniel Franco: 14:05

Yeah. I've had those similar conversations with my daughters. I'll keep it very scientific.

Rebecca Pickering: 14:12

It's not easy. No, no

Daniel Franco: 14:14

I look I follow the rules of the of the law. Sorry, of the human biology Yes. Yeah, I remember they asked me dead babies. This would have been maybe, maybe six months or so ago. And I gave him the actual real scientific answer and how that all came to be. My wife wasn't in the room at the time she was downstairs. And I went downstairs and said to her, I said, I've just got asked this question. Yes. What did you say?

Rebecca Pickering: 14:49

What did you say?

Daniel Franco: 14:52

I said, I went through the whole process and explained it. And she goes, Oh my God. Yeah, yeah. So my It's funny because for me, I have them rather than here. Yes.

Rebecca Pickering: 15:04

Another sort of taboo subject. I can talk to dad about it. And as uncomfortable as it is, yeah, you got through it, and you're both better off.

Daniel Franco: 15:12

It's uncomfortable for me. Didn't seem cool. Really? It's funny, because they almost just looked at me went, well, that's probably more

Rebecca Pickering: 15:22

to my dad[inaudible audio]

Daniel Franco: 15:26

Yeah, we're all learning.

Rebecca Pickering: 15:27

I think. We don't get a rulebook with our kids. I mean, there's lots of parenting books you can read and all sorts of things. But I think, Yeah, lovely kids, and get to know them as little human beings, what they are, and don't presume to know, you know, what they are, how they operate, what they think ask them, you know, encourage that a lot of talking and conversation. And again, try not to get too frustrated or angry or emotive about innocent questions, or even if they do, maybe, you know, put a foot wrong, you know, try and be there for them as the parent that you need to be there. And if something unfortunately does happen, like in my case, you get off from it. I guess. I mean, I don't hold my I don't begrudge my parents for the action they took or didn't take. It's just

Daniel Franco: 16:13

through the whole person.

Rebecca Pickering: 16:14

Oh, devastated. Absolutely. As any father would be and mother didn't see it coming didn't even know it was happening was totally blindsided by the entire event. It was quite shocking for having

Daniel Franco: 16:28

it all come to be did you then speak up eventually?

Rebecca Pickering: 16:32

Yeah. Somebody just came out. I think I think actually mentioned it to mom. I think she made a comment about sex, I think and, yeah, I had made a comment that all I have already like, yeah, it was just quite an off the cuff cuff comment again, I hadn't, I didn't think it was anything bad. I just thought that's a good one. Yeah, no, not even that. I thought that's just what happened. I just thought that that's That was smart. So yeah, it wasn't until her reaction. And then yeah, I think then that conversation with dad. And obviously he wanted to go and prosecuting and activate that side of the lore. And I was obviously quite reluctant with that. So that, and again, whether you do or don't prosecute, I guess that's an argument for another day. But in my case, he chose not to. And I'm sort of grateful for that. And the fact that I went through the bloke was a predator, I think he was just a young man who made really bad decisions. And I think I would have perhaps suffered under that. That magnifying glass, if I had to go to the police and report it. And I think I would have my shame would have been so much greater if I had to do that in a public space.

Daniel Franco: 17:44

Can you just explain to me, the child grooming in a sense is it is a manipulation.

Rebecca Pickering: 17:50

So basically, you're manipulating a child or someone or their age, or it could even out I guess, but child grooming is about? Yeah, that manipulation of someone to get sex, basically.

Daniel Franco: 18:00

And it's is the leading this child to believe that this is a normal?

Rebecca Pickering: 18:05

Oh, definitely. You totally feel this is a relationship. And this is you so grown up and this is what happens. And, you know, that's how you go get married, and all that sort of thing. So in my case, that's exactly what it felt like, hence why I think, yeah, I thought I was responsible for it. I honestly felt to my core that that was my responsibility. And I had made such a poor decision. Yeah, and shame on the family, basically. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 18:32

So when you talk about shame, yeah. You know, a lot of the work that we delve into is that shaman involves vulnerability. Yes, sort of pace. Now you with your keynote, and you sharing this story, you're reaching into the depths of vulnerability right here. And you're you're opening up and telling this story, someone in your position of CEO where people you know, aspire to be an advisor and listen to your story and really learn from that. Is there what I what I'm, what I want to ask is, it's a really powerful story that, like you said, you could potentially feel Yes, vulnerable, and have a sense of shame. Yes. Yeah. Is there a reason for you wanting to share this story? Well, why? Why do you? There's a lot of people keep their cards close to their chest. People think there's anything untoward? Yeah, I'm in a position, I want to be clean. And there

Rebecca Pickering: 19:30

is there is that nervousness around because again, some people will perceive my story as something different, or they might think of it differently, knowing that background. But I think it really is important for particularly so I do a lot of work with kids now in the apprenticeship side of the business that I run. And again, a lot of these kids don't come from much and they have similar sort of backstories I don't anticipate and life isn't easy. And I think for me to be able to demonstrate and even to my children that no matter what life throws at you good better Rugeley, you can make good things from it. You know, those hard lessons that you learn are often learned from the hardest parts of your life. So I think I'm the person who I am today because of that those two events in my life. Yeah, yeah.

Daniel Franco: 20:15

Do you ever think? Do you ever worry? And if you do, yes, about what people may think of you, and do you ever worry that they might hold you in a different? Yes.

Rebecca Pickering: 20:29

Because I think at the end of the day, you can't be and again, one of the things you learned quite young, in this particular circumstance, you can't be responsible for what people think of you. It doesn't, it doesn't change who you are, then you can have your thoughts on me and I can have my own. At the end of the day, as long as I can sleep at night, I know that I do things, the right reason for my beliefs and morals, then then that's okay. I don't need to be out there. Getting approval, and again, living what I've lived through. If I lived that way, I wouldn't. I would, yeah, I wouldn't exist, I think I would struggle to continue to live on I think, yeah, so you needed to get okay with it quick, and you needed to put it on, I needed to put it to bed, the best I could. And the way I did that was just to throw myself at work. Study I kept to myself, I really did just sort of get through those younger years of my life the best I could, and are looking back retrospectively having my own children. It's a great demonstration of resilience in the fact that you can go and you can heal from many things in life. And don't be afraid, you know, you'd hope that they don't go through similar things. But you know, whatever, the trauma or the issue and you and you have them in life, mine are different to yours. But we will have those challenges. You can get past you just need to you know, dig in and get through it. And maybe watch the lens that you put over the top of those events in your life.

Daniel Franco: 21:51

Yeah, I was gonna ask, do you? Do you see? Or do you feel at one sharing your story? So?

Rebecca Pickering: 22:00

Yeah, I think it because it makes me I think it's made me who I am. And again, for people that I talk to and meet every day in life, you know, I feel that, you know, more often than not very few people maybe got, you know, back, you know, no, don't have any time for her more often than not, it's a, you know, great lady that makes you feel important. And you know, because I truly do value human beings and no matter what they've done to me in the past. Yeah, I love human beings and what they have to offer and, and everyone's personal journey, and I've come quite intrigued and curious about other people and why they make decisions and do certain things. So for me, yeah, I have no regrets. You know, those events in particular? What I undo that if I had my time again, probably not because I'd be fearful of who I'd be without them. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, then maybe me,

Daniel Franco: 22:49

what advice do you have for those? There are people out there right now you've got some? What is it some stuff that they hold close to their chest? Other people? Yeah, I do sense that there is an element of letting go, which is that is speaking to people about certain events in your life. Do you have any advice on how people could go about that

Rebecca Pickering: 23:12

really personal thing? I think, in some stores, you might need to hold on, I guess it depends on what that story is for you. So it is a really personal thing, I guess you've got to ask yourself what value is adding to your life, the way the advantage you get now and if it's not adding value, then you've got to keep changing it up until you find what does work for you or what does provide value back to your life. How you do that? I think you've got to keep working at it to find out whether it be speaking to a professional or your family or doing what I do and just release it and speak quite openly about it and hope that you know it provides other people like an International Women's Day opportunity to hear stories a different side. I think all you know what, what I've gone through last night that is okay. Yeah. Or I've gone through something similar. And look, you know, she got through it. I hadn't had, you know, I can to that type of thing. Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 24:03

So moving, moving past those those early years, you then decided that working was away.

Rebecca Pickering: 24:11

Yeah. So for me, I had to get out of that work that environment. So kudos to mom and dad. So obviously the quickest way to deal with that potential exposure at home because I was when my brother was still at home at the time. So I was obviously going to school within after hours and on school holidays, I was working. So got a job at a local bakery. I've worked at Pizza Haven, through school holidays, I worked at a security company job security doing there in the finance department doing their you know, their checks and all the cash receipts and all those sorts of things. So yeah, I just started work really early. And again, thank goodness because it gave me great pathways into where I am today.

Daniel Franco: 24:51

Do you so managing those three jobs? Was it an element of you actually just really enjoying working as well?

Rebecca Pickering: 24:59

Oh, not at the time. I think it was number one trying to heal the disappointment in for mom and dad. So getting files contributing and and moving forward then at least that something to try and heal the wound or trying to rebuild that relationship, I guess. But yeah, it really was just a matter of me just keeping busy and try not to be standing still for too long. Yeah, I think, yeah,

Daniel Franco: 25:22

we have spoken offline as well where you've said to me that you kind of there wasn't a job that you would say no.

Rebecca Pickering: 25:28

To everything. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 25:30

So Richard Branson has a mindset that say yes to everything, and then figure it out later. Yeah.

Rebecca Pickering: 25:36

Pretty much and against you don't know what you don't know, if you don't try. So that analogy, if you know, don't say no to something that you've never done before, or you haven't eaten before, you know, try it, and then give your opinion. So for me, yeah, it's quite, I didn't care. You know, nothing was to beyond me or to beneath me, I'd do anything. It didn't matter.

Daniel Franco: 25:54

So where did that mindset because it is a quite a unique mindset.

Rebecca Pickering: 25:59

Because maybe because of that shame, because you're coming from such a damaged place. And you think, Well, how am I going to make it up to myself? And to those around me? Well, I'm just gonna throw myself you know, to do all the, what do you call right things in life and see if you can make it up, I guess. And at the time, I probably didn't know that's what I was doing. But I guess reflecting back, I think that's exactly what I was doing. And again, and try not to be in my my own head for too long. Yeah,

Daniel Franco: 26:24

yeah. Well, that held you in good stead because by the time you were 20 years old, you're able to buy your first. Your first home.

Rebecca Pickering: 26:32

Yeah, that's right. So I started working with them. Western mining at the time on the rocks, BDM expansion project. So again, great, great job, great money, save money into a managed portfolio with MLC, which at that time was going great. And again, houses were a lot cheaper then yeah, so yeah, it's certainly not the astronaut

Daniel Franco: 26:51

didn't go the traditional path of getting a degree or something.

Rebecca Pickering: 26:54

No, no, so no, again, Gavin Christie's my main objective my main objective was to actually get out of Christie's as soon as I could, and not for any other reason other than I didn't like the drive from Christie's to Adelaide, back when I was working in the city, so I didn't want to have to travel two hours a day to get to work for the next 60 years. So for me the main objective was to get to the city as or live at least as close to city as I possibly could. So that was my driver earn as much money and do whatever I could do as quickly as I could get that deposit and get out of there. Yeah, which sorry, yeah.

Daniel Franco: 27:28

So property is that something because you obviously you work in the civil world now? Yes. You started your civil journey in property quite Yeah, so

Rebecca Pickering: 27:36

construction actually. So I started in construction so from Roxby and mining went into then commercial construction so I then worked for number of commercial contractors for a long time. So building barns and how much construction work did McDowell McConnell Tao for a short time and then went on to master builders and civil contractors Federation

Daniel Franco: 27:59

so traditionally male dominated areas What drew you to those

Rebecca Pickering: 28:02

I think things drew me to I think the money probably was the main driver time again starting so young, I was about 18 I think 19 with Western mining it's just the pay and the energy and the fact you're working on these big projects that are landmarks across South Australia I think it's that pride you get from it as well so that you're in a financial role more business so my when I first started I was actually believe it or not working in a quality department helping box to procurement. So as a bigger team and I was doing the administration and the support for quality assurance, and from there then I went into information technology with y2k and that's where I started my might my possibility of Okay Can I can I do this myself so that's my sound at the side hustle of working full time but there's potential for me to again more earn more and do more so I'm going to set up my own little company and I set up a sole trader ship to do Yeah, IT support so Help Desk Okay, basically and I would have been about 21 I reckon at the time so your

Daniel Franco: 29:03

IT manager for built environments and setting up Yes, yes. So conflict there

Rebecca Pickering: 29:09

No, because I was having like newsagencies and Delhi owners and like mums and dads cuz I was always getting asked for IT person, any IT person completely understand what I'm talking about? Are you looking to take I've got this computer problem, can you come and help me or my printers broken or so? Yeah. So I thought, well, if I'm doing this stuff for free, I might have to charge for it. So So yeah, long Behold, yes, a little company and I went and got my license. So as a qualified computer technician, so I could build computers as well to spec. Yeah, and I just I love the autonomy and the freedom to be earning money in addition to someone paying me to do it. Yeah. Just gave me

Daniel Franco: 29:46

something different, that grow into anything. Also just your own.

Rebecca Pickering: 29:49

Not so much. Obviously. being quite young and having a myriad of priorities in your life as a young person. Yeah, obviously had the mortgage. I had bitten violence was paying me very well. So I do didn't have to be working for myself. I just thought that, you know, that was a good thing to do. So no, the company eventually sort of just wound down so I didn't have the time to put into it. And I didn't fire up again until I left built just before the birth of my son. So yeah,

Daniel Franco: 30:16

beautiful. So it manager. Yep.

Rebecca Pickering: 30:19

Yep. And I also said the business side of it came into so one of the directors at the time Bill Gill, came to me and asked if I could get across the safety and the risk part of the business, which I had never done before, of course, I said, Yeah, of course. Yeah, I can do that. And that, and that's where it started. So then I started to get into understanding safety legislation, risk management, compliance, management, systems audit, all those sorts of fun things that you know, everyone hates to do. Yeah, I loved it. So Arthur was absolutely brilliant, but very much fundamental parts of the business. And obviously, having the sole trade ship on the other side. Obviously, I could understand how to run a business financially. This was really just the other side of it. So all of a sudden, I'm starting to build up all these little, I don't know, I guess, feathers in my cap to be able to run businesses. And I guess that's helped me get to where I am today.

Daniel Franco: 31:10

So from my understanding, you were made redundant?

Rebecca Pickering: 31:13

Yeah, I've had several redundancies again, it's something I took quite actively about when people when I when I speak to people, and they aren't going to be made redundant. That's awesome. You know,

Daniel Franco: 31:24

so can we dive into that? Because it's such a great attitude? Yeah. Why do you believe redundancies are awesome.

Rebecca Pickering: 31:30

So for me, I think it's opportunity. So nothing's finite in this world, the world will always change. And you've always got to keep pace with it, always make sure that you've got your eyes open and looking for what the possibilities are, the opportunities are coming your way. So I think when the possibility redundancies come like, I think for once about pre telling you something like that, you know, what maybe time is it's telling you something that you've got to move on or shake it up a little bit. I don't think it's any type of nervous as long as you've kept your career current, and you're not complacent. And you've got that confidence in your abilities and what you do and how you do it. And I think you should always be networking as well. So I think for me, when I when I have ever done, it's easier in my past life, and I've had them it's been Oh, yeah, okay, let's get into this. always made sure that you're putting your time in as well, to make sure that there is something in the kitty. So they're not small sums of money either in construction, when you're redundant, then that's, that's, you know, it's not small money that you're talking about. So for me, it was great. I've actually pushed the envelope, so it was more so I think a redundancy might be coming my way, I'm gonna go to the businesses actually propose my redundancy, then, and this is what should look and feel like so you have much more autonomy over that way. And yet, you set the balls in motion and finding other opportunities elsewhere outside of the business, obviously, tapping on your network to see what's there. You've also got the added benefit of having, you know, this this money, this this little egg that you can work with. And for me, I'd been built, my first redundancy was built environments. And that was more so than that, again, that was one that I actually asked for, in the fact McConnell Dow had bought out built environments. There's just big machines as a bigger machine. And it didn't need my position anymore. From what I could see. Yeah, I didn't think I was adding value to the position that I previously held. So yeah, when I asked the question, look, I feel that my positions now redundant. I think we have a conversation about this, they'll happy to engage and work through it with me. And by the time that redundancy actually came through, yeah, I was, what four weeks pregnant and with my, with Harry, and then I'd left without a job. And but I did have redundancy there. And it was just on to the next adventure.

Daniel Franco: 33:43

So you'd be a rarity people are asking for done and say most people try to avoid it like the plague. So why? You know, I think the key point that you say there is being making sure that your position or your skill set yesterday, yeah, relevant. And we saw that definitely, time and time again through through the COVID that we just experienced, make sure while yes, down here and go back and study, do online. Stuff, those people who were would get great.

Unknown: 34:11

And I think that's one of those sort of focus mantras that I live to now. Like it's your life, you've got to own it. You've got to take full responsibility, accountability for your education. Don't get complacent. You know, if you do feel like you getting complacent, then change it up. You really do have to be responsible. You get one life and you get one opportunity to live it. So live it don't ever change. Don't just coast.

Daniel Franco: 34:33

Someone told me I think was stuck with me that you're a CEO of your own brand. Right you

Rebecca Pickering: 34:37

Yeah, that's exactly a good way to look at it. 100% Definitely, always gonna be Yeah, one step ahead. Correct. If you're waiting for someone to you know, always be looking for opportunities for you or someone to, you know, say, Oh, Dan, I think you should go do this course you know that. That just doesn't happen in this day and age, unfortunately, and I don't even know if I ever did but I wasn't one of the lucky ones that had someone looking after me to say oh, you should do this and then do that and And how about this, it was always on my own and having to make those decisions for myself. And I think, yeah, why would you want any other ways? So I think you just got hold yourself accountable to make it happen and get on with it.

Daniel Franco: 35:13

So going into this redundancy piece, I would say majority of people would be fearful of a redundancy purely because they haven't been doing anything in the background. But they're also not just because of that, but because they might be in your case, your single single mother. Yeah. A mortgage that's do they got bills to pay? spouse might also not be

Rebecca Pickering: 35:43

yes. So I had all those things. Yeah. 100%? Definitely. How

Daniel Franco: 35:47

did you? What was your mindset through that? How did you manage?

Rebecca Pickering: 35:53

And again, I think when you you do hold yourself accountable, you know, you're gonna hustle, you're gonna make it happen, like, like failure, or failure is an option, because you learn from failing as well. But, but stopping or not earning or not making it happen isn't isn't an option. Like, you've got to make it. And again, like I said, I don't care. I was cleaning toilets. If I spend 1000 towards insane amount of money, then that's what I would do. Yeah, I don't think there was ever a position again. I'm lucky I'm able bodied. And I'm healthy, although I've got a few side issues now. But I think you can get on with it. As long as you can rock up everyday to work. Someone will pay you for. And I think not having that. Being too proud to do any job.

Daniel Franco: 36:32

Yeah, that's a key one. Yeah, this is a Yo, yeah,

Rebecca Pickering: 36:36

I can't I can't go back and do that job. Again. I was there five years ago. So why can't you? Can you do whatever you lost? Yes. steps back to go. That's exactly what I've done that plenty of times. Oh, God, I've been on really high paying jobs. And you know, wasn't aligning with the business at the time that you know, what not, it's, it's not worth your soul, and it's not worth your unhappiness. So yeah, make a move, get out of it. And yeah, you backslide down. And but you you just hustle faster to get to where you were, and I think you're better for it. Because now, you know, you're 10 more steps ahead of where you potentially would have been if you stayed where you were.

Daniel Franco: 37:09

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's really about reading the plays, and you can almost look at your career and where you see in at the moment and go, what's the ceiling here? Oh, yeah. Where am I? What's my growth trajectory in this?

Rebecca Pickering: 37:23

Definitely.

Daniel Franco: 37:24

The sideways move is probably one of the most underrated moves,

Rebecca Pickering: 37:29

said it's just just as right. And I think it's just as important cuz again, it does give you opportunity to test your resolve. Do I know or do I not and my faking it? Am I you know, I have I got it? Do you want to work harder at certain weaknesses or strengths? So you know, it gives you a great opportunity to breathe a little bit, consolidate and then go hard again. So yeah, again, as long as you you're earning enough, and you understand. And again, I guess, for me, I've always made sure that I've always had something to fall back on in my accounts as well. So I don't live on credit, I make sure that I've always got a safety net, you know, to to manage my responsibilities. But my children, my parents

Daniel Franco: 38:10

use a methodology or framework for that, you know, the richest man in Babylon. They owe 10%. Yeah,

Rebecca Pickering: 38:17

no, no, no, no, I don't like spending my money. I don't like spending and I don't need to be dropping out in a flash car or anything like that. I, I? Yeah, I live in a humble home that has enough rooms in it for us to live in. I don't need to be spending up to I don't know. And then maybe because I didn't come from much either. I don't know. That's got something to do with it. But yeah, no, no, I just like to make sure that you've got something in your back pocket as well, which again, gives you great amount of freedom and choice to make good life choices with your career and, and what you do and don't accept from a business perspective. Yeah, yeah,

Daniel Franco: 38:53

I do the same. I keep a nest egg there almost look at it from a month perspective. If I went for a job without three months, could I survive? Absolutely, I could, based on the email, my mortgages or whatever it might be.

Rebecca Pickering: 39:05

It's always keeping 100%. And you got to make sure that you can liquidate if you need to, as well. And all those sorts of things need to really come into it.

Daniel Franco: 39:13

You are very heavily invested in education of yourself from a personal development point of view. When you are going through these younger years of books, did you

Rebecca Pickering: 39:24

I wasn't academic at all, I was a hopeless student. I really struggled through primary school in high school. Yeah, almost had to stay back in year five. Just wasn't getting it. So in year five, I learned that you have to ask questions and you have to check in with those that you're trying to meet expectations. So make sure you're checking to ensure you're meeting those expectations, not leave to the last minute and you know fingers crossed, it will be alright. So I learned quite young to ask to check in and to make sure I'm on the right path or do I need to stop and change direction. But you know, I struggled all through high school or through primary school pretty much

Daniel Franco: 39:57

as you became more of an adult Yeah. Is that adult? Invest in your education? Yes.

Rebecca Pickering: 40:06

Yeah, I think it's different and I get nothing. That's why talking to youth and kids today, trying to open their eyes to the fact that you know, you can, you can still be an amazing person and who you want and aspire to be just cuz you're not good at school does is not a reflection of how you're gonna go in life. And I think I'm a great example of that. You know, I can I've gotten through my master's, I've done user study in various fields, I think it's for for kids to understand, it's all about context and learning about what you love, and at the time, and how you can understand it in a real life example, I think, is the difference. For me, understanding algebra, and a school system doesn't didn't really resolve for me, you know, I can I can do for financial modeling for any business startup now, you know, pretty easily. Yeah, it's not difficult, but that the outcome and the context is so different. You know, the drivers, are you

Daniel Franco: 41:02

working with a lot of youth, especially in the apprenticeship and traineeship world? Do you believe that the education system slightly broken?

Rebecca Pickering: 41:11

Yeah, I think for a long time it was I think it's a testament to the state government today in the fight, they're now introducing flexible entry pathways into schools. So the school system next year, will have a much greater focus on education in a real life setting. So kids starting quite young in high school getting up to year 10, where they really do understand what pathways from a career perspective are available to them, and then educating them within the context of what they're choosing to do. So for us, for example, in civil construction, it might be that a child identifies that they want to do a trade or we're not quite sure, we can give them some exposure to our industry, like we can get them out at our live worksite. And, you know, do some paving or or see some excavators in use or hop onto our simulators and feminine to see what it's like to drive an excavator or tipper or, or something like that. Something to just reignite that all this is an opportunity, this is what I want to do. So that will start from next year in year nine year 10. And then you can get into a trade pathway. So for us, in our industry and, and South Australia, in particular, we really need to grab on to that. So I think the education system is changing. I think it's got a long way to go. Yeah, I think when I look at my children's primary school education, you still see a lot of curiosity and innovative thinking, not supported in kids, if it doesn't fit the system. Yeah, it's sad.

Daniel Franco: 42:34

It's almost resent the square peg into

Rebecca Pickering: 42:39

100%. And you think these these little bundles of fluff that are just so amazingly creative, and, you know, when you let kids just think and work through a problem on their own, it's amazing what things they can come up with. And I think at primary school should be teaching entrepreneurialism and those sorts of things, rather than the stock standard old system that we've had there for 100 years, it just doesn't, I don't know, I just don't think it delivers outcomes. And I think it doesn't help our children either. Because then they really get upset that they're not passing maths or English being or what if they did it differently than they could be superstars what they do. So

Daniel Franco: 43:13

it's also I think, from a parent perspective, it's noticing your kids and what they're doing. Yeah, well, I absolutely love when I take the iPads to something away from my kids. Danger, punishment, or whatever. When it gets to the point that my children are bored, you really start seeing creative creative side.

Rebecca Pickering: 43:36

What do you do? Yeah, well game. So they come up with, you know, game, how do they constructively

Daniel Franco: 43:40

drawing the color in the conversation? When I set up? My, this wasn't too long ago, a couple of weeks ago, my daughter's set up a shop? Yeah. Yeah, to the point where they went on the they didn't go on my computer, print off the COVID check ins and stuff like that they actually started their own business.

Rebecca Pickering: 44:05

That not be encouraged. Okay. So how are we going to get this, how you're going to pay for your stall and talk about revenue and profit and loss, and wages, and, again, awesome skills that our children, you know, could be learning quite young, which would really facilitate not only them going into work for themselves, or business or whatever it is, but just their own life skills as well. You budget for your mortgage? How do you how do you budget for that fancy car that you want? How do you actually get from A to B to C to D? Again, we don't teach that. No. And again, if you're not born of parents that can teach you that or you're not naturally inclined to want to know. Yeah, what does that leave

Daniel Franco: 44:39

you? There's an app called springy, have you heard no,

Rebecca Pickering: 44:42

oh? Oh, really? Yeah, the kids are.

Daniel Franco: 44:46

It's a it's a it's a value a debit card. Yeah. They can get it their own. Oh, yes. Yes, yes. But they need to do chores to be able to activate. Yes, yes. I've got it set. My daughters will empty the dishwasher twice a week make their bed every single day. They will brush their teeth morning and night. So just chores fantastic. I do that which is their regular chores. Yeah, every week. $5 Wow. fabulous week, but they have to do that everyday after after. That's brilliant. See, then it's I want to earn more. Yeah, then they have to do something over and above what they owe. Okay. I will then come to meet that they can. I hope you wash your car today. Hey, guys, can I do the waiting? No, you can't. You're saving up for a Nintendo Switch or something? Oh, wow. There you go. Awesome. Which is like $400. But yeah, she's halfway there. Because she's doing all these extra shows for me i when it's great. And

Rebecca Pickering: 45:44

she loads an appreciation for the value of the dollar and how much work has to go through to something. So I think all of those sorts of things are marvelous things, but again, not really taught in school, unfortunately.

Daniel Franco: 45:54

But that's why the private world in the technology. Yes, yes. Such a spree. So what do you recommend the parents?

Rebecca Pickering: 46:02

Okay. I'll give it a shot.

Daniel Franco: 46:06

So you one party or talk that we've also talked through, which I'm really interested in? And one that I think you mentioned that you may have received some some feedback from in in certain different ways. Yes. When you had your first you had your son? Yes, that's right. And within 11 days,

Rebecca Pickering: 46:29

10 days, yes. Back to work. You're back into? Yes. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 46:33

Let's see what was the decision around there.

Rebecca Pickering: 46:35

So basically, at the time, so my partner, their dad, he wasn't earning as much as I was earning. He was working part time. So just sort of made sense that obviously, he'd been at home dad. Now I had just started working at how much construction so I didn't have any annual leave boot up. I was pretty much Yeah, I had nothing. So it wasn't really a choice. You know, I had to keep earning to keep obviously I two houses at the time. So I had to pay two mortgages, plus feed now their dad because he obviously wasn't working and a new baby. Yeah, that stuff doesn't come cheap. So yeah, so I had to go back to work.

Daniel Franco: 47:10

How did this? How did how much? How take that like, when so you from my understanding? You took the job? Didn't tell

Rebecca Pickering: 47:17

them? Yeah, because I had the autoimmune issue. There was no, I guess, guarantee the pregnancy would lie. So there's no point in telling them until I got to that 12 week mark, that it was going to be sustainable. And I had to go to specialists and all that sort of thing, just to make sure my body wasn't gonna, you know, be difficult with me. So now I got got through that 12 week mark, is that okay? Yep, no, now Now, let the know. It was a straightforward conversation of Oh, and by the way, just kidding, I'm pregnant. But I'll just take some manual if 10 days off, and I'll be back to it. And then you just got to look after yourself. And and for me, I can I'm so lucky. And I appreciate that not, you know, there are other women that don't have that. That luckiness. And I think it is a pure luck sometimes that your body can carry children and that you don't get sick, or I did have gestational diabetes. But that wasn't anything. I couldn't work through the diet. My autoimmune stuff could be checked, that was fine. I had a specialist to go through. So that was all right. I had birth naturally, which again, is another big tick. So I didn't have to recover from C section or anything like that. So yeah, I'm just really blessed that I could actually get back to work as quickly as I did. Like work, but it was fun.

Daniel Franco: 48:21

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. How did you manage not being there? Yeah.

Rebecca Pickering: 48:26

So that's mom guilt. So and I think it's interesting, I don't know if I've ever got my head around that other than to have that match for that. It's about quality, not quantity of time that you spend with the children. So for me, when I'm when my children are together, we don't have a huge amount of time together. So we make it count. So they've missed me as much as I've missed them. So it's a it's a beautiful thing to get together and have conversations and, and even now still really bounce off each other. And then it's not back to work back to school or back where their dad was separated now. So it sort of just really highlights and adds to that more. So not taking each other for granted, I guess. So mom guilt is a big thing. But again, at the end of the day, I had to be earning money to feed him and to look after and provide. So you have to check that guilt and get on with it. And just make sure that yeah, when you are there it counts. And yeah, lucky for me, I've got beautiful kids that that could extend me that that ability to be able to do that.

Daniel Franco: 49:27

Being present environment. Yeah. How do you manage that? Now in today's world, I think yeah, the final way. Oh, how do you switch off? Definitely.

Rebecca Pickering: 49:37

I think we were talking about that earlier about really being quite disciplined with when I choose to look at my emails or respond to calls and I do have that match that it and I've always had it with in my personal life and business life. If it's that urgent, someone's going to keep calling me until I pick up the phone where you're going to ring me and I try and have that that that with leadership as well that you know what if it says But urgent, you know, I'll call you or I'll, you know, I'm not going to bark at you because you didn't answer my email, you know, on a Friday night or a Saturday or a late evening. That's not right. People do have a right to turn off. So for me, it is about only answering my phone, if I'm with my kids, if it's an emergency, if I really have to worry about if I'm on their time, I'm on their time. So, yeah,

Daniel Franco: 50:21

so as a single parent, I'm not concerned whether you're male or female, and this question as a single parent and a CEO of a business. Yes, time is limited. Yes, it is. How do you how do you navigate through that hot that world of being there as a parent, and then also there for the business? That's wrong, mixing that all into one. Yeah. So

Rebecca Pickering: 50:48

think getting lucky, unlucky, depends on how you want to look at it, I see it as lucky that us, we separated when the kids were three, and five, so quite young. And my kids have always been in the childcare system as well. So Harry and dad got on fine when they were young. But when my daughter came along, she really didn't bond with their dad all that well, which made it really quite difficult for him, and Harry being at home. So the safest choice for us was to put them into childcare, and get their dad back to work, which just washed all that, that, that that issue out of our family in the fact that it meant that he was out there working again, kids were safe, and in an environment that was, that was fantastic. So I think my kids have always appreciated the fact that they'll always be dropped off at seven in the morning to OSH or childcare. Yeah, the day starts for us at quarter to six, when the alarm goes off, I don't have to set my kids up, because they just up anyway, they know the routine. And they've been doing it since they were babies. So they get it. So I think now being you know, CEO, and I think if anything, it's a slight relief. Being CEO, so much easier than running your own business. You know, you when you're on your own business, I did that for several years. And I for a long time, between executive gigs and during executive gigs. That's really, that's really hard. And I found that prey that the hardest part. Because always chasing your invoices chasing the next client delivering your project works. Plus, for me, also working in executive role for someone else, is really quite a fine balance. So for me now as CEO, for civil contracts, Federation, it's, it's a lot easier, I can actually breathe, I've got greater flexibility to better manage my day with technology, when I am available when I'm not. But I guess the one thing that has always worked for me and I guess a tip for your listeners, I guess is I always started my day early, so that I had freedom and choice to how early I could finish it. Or if it did run on, then that was okay, too. But if I started later, then I think I'd always be chasing my tail. But I get up early, we get to spend some good time with kids, where I can and if I can afford the time, and I do try and actually diligently make sure I pick up my kids, you know, earlier in the afternoon rather than later, board meetings and those sorts of things will cross over or events, but but that's okay, you know, once a week here, and there's okay, I can usually swing it. And I do have mom and dad as well, which is a great help for me. So they can chip in and do pickups if I need them. Yeah. But yeah, it's just about trying to, I guess, be disciplined in your priorities. What you need to do today, making sure that you do focus on the high risk elements that are non negotiable have to be done versus those that potentially could wait, and I can organize them into Completion over a longer period of time. So it's yeah, just about progressively working through it. I

Daniel Franco: 53:42

think, how structured

Rebecca Pickering: 53:43

is your day? Oh, no, it's not actually my, I think you learn quickly in construction, that every day is different, it's never the same thing. There's always something different popping up. And not that I was not that I mean hardcore construction anymore. But you know, you go in with it with what you think is the plan for today or those tasks that need to be done and, you know, you're dealing with HR issues, or something's gone wrong in the building. And we need to get some, you know, facility maintenance providers into fix something, you've got the media calling you about something that's popped up overnight, or a budget release that there's so many different things like that. So you've got all these sort of things that that pop up, and I think I've always been one and I say a lot with my team. Just be prepared to talk and roll. So just put your chin to your chest, just just roll with it. And see we end up and I think as long as you you don't beat yourself up over that, you know, I didn't get to our list and you know, obviously you do need to get to those things that people are holding you accountable to and you identify those who don't slip on those. But everything else you know, you can tuck roll you know, because we will do whatever you need to do to get it done. And it will always be okay. The sun will always come up tomorrow.

Daniel Franco: 54:50

Yeah. Ever pretty resented outstanding attitude and you're very optimistic and from what I am gathering a really strong sense of resilience as well within in your life. Not everyone has that approach. Yeah. Where, where they can talk and roll and get on with it. How did you develop that skill set? And those mantras? Or is it just lived experience,

Rebecca Pickering: 55:18

thinks lived experience. And that's where I'd be nervous to suggest that if I didn't have those early life experiences, what I would like today, and I think that's why I have to tell that part of the story because people look at you go, how did you? How are you this person that you are today? Yeah. And if you try and explain it without actually highlighting those critical events, people sometimes judge themselves a bit harshly, or why can't I be like that? So well, you didn't have you know, that adversity? That point in time in? I don't know, in life? I don't know. But for me, I don't know. It's almost like, Don't Don't compare yourself to me, because I'm, I've got a different set of circumstances that led me too, who I am today. Sure, I'm, I'm optimistic and I guess resilient, and I can share lots of things. But it's really hard to put it in perspective, if I don't go back in time and talk about those, those particular highlights.

Daniel Franco: 56:07

How do you build that resilience in your children?

Rebecca Pickering: 56:11

I think by ensuring that they trust themselves, and that they have confidence to I said, do any job, you know, don't don't screw nose up or something you haven't tried before. Give it a shot. Lead by example. I think so, you know, be brave. And be curious is something that I always say to them, you know, nervousness is a good feeling, you know, give it a shot and give it a try. And I think then when they do those things, it's amazing how it sort of just changed that light bulb on for their own confidence in themselves that they can do anything. And I think as a mom, you know, it'd be nice to know, you know, you're going to be around for 100 years, but it's a real possibility that you're not going to be around tomorrow, you know, accidents happen all the time. Or, you know, if something was to tragically take me away from them, I would know that they're going to be okay, because you're building that up in them. Trust yourself, you will be okay. You know, know what you capable of be accountable for yourself. All those sort of mantras, you know, the sun will come up tomorrow. This too shall pass all those things that will help them Yeah. Let me get through.

Daniel Franco: 57:12

There's real power in understanding that nervousness. Yeah, is a good thing. It really stepping into that discomfort. Yeah, that's it. Where do you? Do you look for discomfort? And would you

Rebecca Pickering: 57:29

honestly do actually, yeah, you know, like this sort of things? Not easy. I'm, I would say I'm a natural introvert. So you know, getting up and doing a public speaking of international Wednesday, far from easy, and the subject matter, too, is not the easiest thing to talk about. And trying to frame it in a in a, in a way that, I guess encourages people to listen, it's not easy. And but I do love the challenge of what that is in me. But, you know, the harder it is or the more complicated it is, the more I sort of unpick it and see where it leads or what it does. And again, at the end of the day, I think there's very few things in this world that actually kill you. So you know, give it a shot. What's the worst that can happen? And what I've found in my personal experience, is that you learn so much more from just trying and sometimes failing, or succeeding then not doing it. And I don't know, I'd feel guilty, I think or maybe that shine would come back that if I didn't try it. I've got to live with that. Yeah, yeah.

Daniel Franco: 58:22

But it's a very rule. problem, if that's the right word for many people, is they start getting a bit nervous, the sense of anxiety takes over. Yeah, that crippling and they fall back into their old habits.

Rebecca Pickering: 58:38

An I've, yeah, and all I can suggest is that you try and try and embrace that and try and find what works for you to work through that. Because it's not doing any favors if you sit with it. So if you have a choice, and we're all adults or young people trying to find ourselves, it's, yeah, you really do need to try and find what works for you. But if it's not adding value to your life, then change and I think that's one of those other key points that I that I talked about that know yourself and be okay with it if you don't like it and change it. So no one can change it for you. No, yeah, you know, yeah, that's exactly right. And wanted, you know, you know, who likes to not be able to sleep at night or who likes you know, that nervous feeling of presenting to a meeting or getting up on public speaking well, there's there's ways to work your way through that. You just got to find what works I

Daniel Franco: 59:26

don't think there's a day that goes by where there's not something that makes me concerned or worried or yeah, that that sick feeling is a sick feeling that says feeling in your stomach. You guy or this could pan out any I don't know. Yeah, I'm going or you have a conversation with someone. Especially you running running your own business. It's a it's a tough it is

Rebecca Pickering: 59:51

it really is. Top Hat to anyone my hat goes off to anyone that runs their own business. I have full respect and just amazing. Yeah, human beings. I can do it,

Daniel Franco: 1:00:00

because it, I look and I don't think it's too dissimilar from a CEOs perspective anyway. But when you run your own business or you are the senior executive for a business, you have to worry about number one, the the income of the business, ensuring it's going concern and, and then you've also got a war for me. So I definitely take this. I really love the people that work. You want the best for them? Yeah, and correct. And right, is this push and pull? Feeling constantly? That's right. How do I Yes, help grow this business? Like you back. Great.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:00:41

So you've got very much skin in the game with that. And again, I think as much as you grow, don't acknowledge it, that's probably the thing that is your stretch. And that thing that does, you know, sort of make you bit not nervous probably isn't the right description for it. But, you know, you certainly are putting yourself out there and feeling it, which is probably the better way to frame it that you just got to get feel it you just got to Oh, wow, that was a stretch or, gee, that was you know, I got through that. So again, I don't really get that feeling of, you know, nervousness, it's just more feeling of, well, okay, hold on, I'm gonna do this. And, you know, just take a breath and off you go, like you're running every day. The currently doing it moment. Yeah, you know, am I going to do it? How I'm going to go through it? Yeah. And I think sports has helped me with some of that as well. So like, you know, running for me was one of the big things.

Daniel Franco: 1:01:27

In amongst all this life of yours. You managed to be an ultra marathoner. So just a marathon runner.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:01:32

Nice. Can you explain so ultra ultra marathons, obviously, anything over your standard marathon, which is 42 K's? So I've done a 50 and 100. And when you try it for 100, you do lots of Ultras, basically,

Daniel Franco: 1:01:47

when you are away, you don't need to run that far.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:01:49

Yet. But again, it's just one of those again, just my random thoughts and feelings about worlds not saying no and oh, can I do it? I don't know. It's just one of

Daniel Franco: 1:01:57

those kilometers. I mean,

Rebecca Pickering: 1:01:59

a month, but again, could it work? And what time and What? What? What does that look like? It's just so so curious to me before I done on oh, what does that look and feel like and how do you do it? Did you run that in South Australia? Yeah, so that's the Trailblazer event back in my day, that was 2008. When I did mine. That was the operation Flinders event. So you start at Memorial Drive, and then you run on the Torrens to Black Hill and then you go black hill across the Adelaide Hills to get Matt lofty and then from that lofty Tokaido. So yeah, need to all in one sitting basically. So you don't stop. You have your support crew that feeds you along the way. Is your money handle that actually really good. So yeah, I was rock climbing the next day, no problems at all. Yeah, I was fine. But I ran an Adelaide half marathon. Not that probably the year before he killed me for you know, three weeks just that road running versus trail running was such a different impact on your body. Yeah, I think trail running because you have to alter your speed. And you know, you're really focusing on where you put your feet and it's just a totally different mind game. heart rates probably is it's up and down. And again, I don't know. It's not that consistent, you know, thought that on on bitumen, and it's not the mundane, mundane. It's yeah, I don't know. I just thoroughly enjoyed it. And I think, you know, your human body is capable of so many things. I think it's just the mind that limits you. So I think for me running was very much a mind game on. Yeah. Do I have the determination to do it? And

Daniel Franco: 1:03:26

have you read? It's a very it's a very, what's it called alpha male book. It's the David Goggins. He's a US Navy SEAL. That turns

Rebecca Pickering: 1:03:42

Ultra Yes. Yeah. When he'd be so it's a rule. Yes. But

Daniel Franco: 1:03:46

so it's a real rah rah right but he's what you've just touched Yes, exactly what he says yeah, he does all this and yet through three hell weeks Yeah, she's the craziest he found the first two people running on broken shins throughout. But he takes he takes this approach of you, as we as human beings do not understand the lengths that our bodies actually go huge. Definitely. If you think you're tired one day and you're feeling sore, and yet I've got no more in me. Yeah, probably. In his mind, you've only worked probably 50%

Rebecca Pickering: 1:04:23

Yeah. 100% It's amazing what you can do. And I think that's just a beautiful day on and I just stuff on that inspiring and just incredible. I feel so good even in business now. It's knowing that you can do so many different things. It What's there to hold you back apart from your own self thought? Yeah, your

Daniel Franco: 1:04:42

mindset is, do you place much emphasis now on your health and taking your exercising and

Rebecca Pickering: 1:04:48

definitely, yeah, as much as I can. So I like to hike and for me, obviously I do a lot of engagement, obviously with in work and have lots of interaction with people and I think for me Getting out and hiking just by myself for a couple of hours at a time just enough to replenish

Daniel Franco: 1:05:06

my mindfulness thing, or is it just,

Rebecca Pickering: 1:05:09

I'm just more of an introvert. So it's as an introvert, I just like to just consolidate and just, you know, just be in my own head for a little while just to relax. And just to contemplate and think, through no other reason than it just automatically relaxes me. And I find it really energizes me I find, because, yeah, you get to the end of a long weekend. You know, it seems you've been talking nonstop and just going, you know, everywhere. And anyway. Yeah, but I just think to get out and just just to do a low fat almost pretty much and it is just a beautiful thing.

Daniel Franco: 1:05:40

Do you know what I mean? Yes. Yes, overactive, thyroid, help you in your

Rebecca Pickering: 1:05:47

noise now? underwriters, headphones and outtake replacement everyday. Oh, wow. Yeah. Now I see even harder again. So yeah, no, no, no, it's hard to manage. So now I go under, and then you got to go back for tests every six months just to make sure your levels are okay. And then it triggers other things as well in your body not like calcium goes a bit funny every now and then and vitamins and, and those sorts of things. Your body just doesn't seem to process and yeah, recently, I think after, after I go back to Shelby Yeah, so going bold. So I now have to take a tablet. So don't go bold, basically. A patient attire. Yeah, yeah. So it's against just wear my body now turns on the hair follicles. So now? Yeah, I just have to take minoxidil for RAM. Yeah, so I don't lose my hair. So yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:06:30

So the exercise is something does that help? Or is it

Rebecca Pickering: 1:06:35

I think I've just been one that's always believed, you know, healthy mind, healthy body. So it's, you've got to look after all of it. I think if you want to be that holistic human being and if you want to get the greatest output in your life and your outcome that are all of us who work together for you. So yeah, I don't think you have one without the other. So yeah, I've always, I always feel better when you're doing that physical exercise. And you're getting out there. I think it's balance. Yeah, that sort of feels like to me. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:07:03

Going back to the work your career and yes, your daughter came along. Sorry, her name. So Shelby Shelby came along. And did you have more

Rebecca Pickering: 1:07:12

time off nine or 10 day thing again? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And

Daniel Franco: 1:07:17

did you? Were you with your?

Rebecca Pickering: 1:07:19

Yes. Yep. So let's do that. Yeah, so same dad did so then. After that he actually That's right. So shall we? Yeah. Shall we in Yeah, didn't quite bond all that she was a proper baby. She, you know, she would not sleep and, you know, fuss around with their food. And, you know, Harry was awesome. He slept in eight. Well, you will never know we had a baby in the house. But um, yeah. Now she was a proper baby. Beautiful thing that she is be actually cried. And she was wanting to be settled. And she quickly worked out that if you know, all of what we're just you've been three, four weeks old that if she screamed at that long enough and refuse the bottle, I'd have to come home to feed her. Yeah. So she just refused. Take the bottle. And yeah, so I was breastfeeding. Yeah, trips back and forth. Yeah. Hi, Marcia. Yes, yes, I was sent again. Great that I was consulting. Where was I? Yes, I was still at high Marsh. And again, the great business to work for fully understood that you'd have to duck out in about sign email if need be. So yeah, it was it was it was great to have that flexibility in that respect to be able to do that.

Daniel Franco: 1:08:20

See her in show we get to four or five years ago. Your your relationship took a different path. And you parted ways. Yes. You then decided to start your own consulting business and start an MBA.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:08:38

Yeah. As you do at the same time. Yes, that's right. Is is? So I'd gone out just I'd gone I'd started my business before we separated. So that had started prior to and again, just that feeling that yeah, that that pressure of not earning enough not being enough places at one time. So again, engineering that, that redundancy and everything with Hindmarsh at that point time is rolling up into Sydney at the time, so you can sort of feel it coming. So like, yep. Okay, let's do this. But I've still consult back to them. So for a long time, there were a client still. So I had that. And I had some board positions as well that I was on. So yeah, I set up the consultancy company. When Shelby was off, she would have been what better a year old, I think, maybe six months and went back out to market again. And that's where I picked up master builders as a client. So I was consulting to them for a little while. And then yeah, they needed a GM to come in and help

Daniel Franco: 1:09:30

them What were you consulting? What was your

Rebecca Pickering: 1:09:32

business basics? So yes, safety, risk. Yeah, more construction. So I've really only ever helped construction businesses and firms. So you know, tradies that just need help with the business side of their their businesses, consulting to associations, like master builders to support their members or their clients with their needs.

Daniel Franco: 1:09:52

And like I said, I just want to top that off with an MBA.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:09:56

Yes. At the same time, so yes, so yes. And I think for me the saving grace was the NBA because when we were separating, I'm one of those people that has to keep a really active mind and really active body so that I can sleep like a fine if those get unbalanced, then I then I can really struggle to sleep and I'm a big one for you need to sleep properly. If you're gonna have a good active life and be able to think and be awesome. You really need some good sleep. Having Yeah, so you need to struggle. You need to work on this. So for me, and you know what it's like when you go through heart ache and those sorts of things. We've all been there. Yeah, for me, having something to focus on. So not only was at a new job, masters, and having two children and trying to sell a house and move back to the other house. It was a very full plate. That for me, I think I just needed to keep running. So that was your way of dealing. Yeah, it was like an ultramarathon. But in a life form. Basically,

Daniel Franco: 1:10:53

most people put their head in the sand. Yeah, gone the other way. Yeah,

Rebecca Pickering: 1:10:57

you know, don't think I could have got through it that way. I don't think I think I'd feel that the problems would catch you and, and pass you by.

Daniel Franco: 1:11:05

It's not it's not they will. They might Yeah,

Rebecca Pickering: 1:11:09

and I guess I didn't I Yeah, never wanted that to happen. I never want you to not have control of my responsibilities and where I could go with it. So yeah, it's best to run it even harder and Catch Me If You Can type of thing

Daniel Franco: 1:11:24

your your mentalities nice and absolutely love it. Do you? Do you ever stop and? And just be Yeah, of

Rebecca Pickering: 1:11:34

course, it definitely. And it is sometimes there's that, you know, lazy binge of Netflix whilst on the couch or? Yeah, or going for a hike or just, you know, trying to do something silly like China learn to play golf for something that's just yeah, for and for me, they are things that are escaped from, you know, they're not the rat race, but you know, just life. I don't know, I just find a lot of solace in doing new things or just chilling out, or, yeah, I'm lucky that I live up in the hills. So it's quiet up there. You know, it's only 12 K's out of the city, but you feel like you're the country. So for me that that's a big part of how I recover as well. It is quiet up there. You know, you can't escape. You know, you don't have to, you know, if I go up there and go for a hike, I might not see anyone for several hours or sure walking around. It's just really quite nice. So I think you need to find what works for you from that perspective. Where's your safe place? You know, for me, I'm lucky that I love home. Yeah, it's just one of those things. I think

Daniel Franco: 1:12:34

solving business was going well,

Rebecca Pickering: 1:12:36

yes, yes or no great guns. So yes, it's always served me very well.

Daniel Franco: 1:12:39

And then just no longer wanted to be a CEO of

Rebecca Pickering: 1:12:43

not necessarily. I think what happened with CCF it just pulled on my heartstrings. So I'm really lucky now that I don't, I haven't had a job for a long time I do what I love to do. And I'm just really lucky that I found that you know, early on, and consulting is very much a part of that you can pick and choose who you want to work for. You know what projects you want to take on. So I love that autonomy and I love the fact that you can move and shift you know so you you're always energized getting out of bed in the morning to do what you love. But I guess CCF it was that that perfect that I don't know that perfect thing to give that box that wasn't tick jet. I hadn't held it. Although I'd held executive roles or GM and director ops and those sort of roles. I hadn't held the CEO role. Prior although I had the executive director ship for the civil apprenticeships and careers. He still wasn't that box tick. And the kicker for me was the fact that CCF was such a traditional thing machine to get into and again that natural curiosity on Oh, can I change this up? And you know, make it more modern? And you know, it just really man I just my natural curiosity to or can this be something different? And that element with what I'm doing with the apprenticeships sort of really sold me and and it's still in construction infrastructure, which I love. So yeah, it all just sort of just all magically sort of lined up. So yeah, for me to put the company to bed for a little while. It's again, a bit like a sidestep but it's not, you know, your any capacity and those sorts of things sort of played out. But for me the fact that I can do this now I can always start my company up after the fact. But I wouldn't necessarily get this opportunity again. So So yeah, and again, so grateful that I took it on what is the purpose of CCF civil contractors Federation, is the association that represents civil construction businesses in South Australia. So it goes out and talks to government and media and other stakeholders to ensure that civil businesses and I'm talking civil businesses, these are companies that build roads, bridges, pipelines, tunnels, virtually anything to do traffic. Yeah. Yes, I signed a project. So those businesses need representation. So to ensure that you know, this is working red tape that their their businesses are providing an environment where they can prosper the most. They can employ people that someone's advocating and lobbying for what they need to continue their businesses. So CCF primarily exists for that. Another part of the business is civil train, which is where we train the workforce. So we're, we're always, I guess, looking to our industry. So the civil industry, make sure it's well trained. It's got the capacity and capability to do work to do the work. Our client is private and public. But we do so much infrastructure work for government. So for our way of life of South Australians to continue and to prosper, you need a healthy civil industry, because you can't get to work unless you're on a road. You can't turn a tap on a water

Daniel Franco: 1:15:47

Dipti Department of Transport, and then you've got an infrastructure, and then you've got si water.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:15:53

Yeah. And so again, all civil requires civil industry. Yep. So civil industry is the workforce basically, that executes those projects. Basically,

Daniel Franco: 1:16:01

most people don't think of that they the essay water piece is water to the tap, but it's also the pipes sewage, sewage away from your house. We're actually stop disease.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:16:14

Yes. So yeah, it's the one trade that is actually responsible for the quality of life that it seems that that needs to deliver that social value, and it does. And I guess, how

Daniel Franco: 1:16:24

can people get so frustrated? But it's awesome. Things are happening. Yes. The New South Road Bridge? Yes thing. It's awesome.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:16:38

To drive out the brasa without good, beautiful. All right, beautiful, right.

Daniel Franco: 1:16:43

We got family out there and literally cut 15 minutes.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:16:47

And it's a lovely drive. Yeah, it's a beautiful road. You know, what's not the last move? Exactly? That's the first concrete structure. Yes. It's so good. It's awesome. So yeah, so all those sorts of things. So in order, yeah, so CCF is that, obviously the training arm to still train. And then we have that new element, which was the thing that really got me on the hook with CCF was civil apprenticeships and crews. So that's the entity. It's a group training organization that employs youth and provides entry pathways into our industry. And we're an aging trade. So we're we're an industry that's rapidly getting older, and when our replenishment rate is too low. So we really do need more kids entering our industry, and it pays really well. And it's awesome. If you like being outside, you know, you're only limited by your own attitude. What's

Daniel Franco: 1:17:30

what when you say pays well from it from your old coming into school.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:17:35

So you go into obviously, apprenticeship is a lower paid apprenticeships, but by the time you come out, and you're fully qualified trade versus only a three year apprenticeship as well. So not much time to sink into it, you know, you're in that sort of that potentially that 50 6070, you know, salary bracket. And as soon as you can demonstrate proficiency and you get good, and again, you've got a good attitude and can do tasks. Yeah, you're in that six figure bracket pretty quickly.

Daniel Franco: 1:17:58

Yeah, I know, a lot of people who have done that undergraduate programs, and then all this sort of stuff as well, and got into that world, it's a world where dollars are not a concern.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:18:09

I mean, most of my mates now and again, I've only lived and breathed construction. So yeah, the most wealthy people I know, are the tradies not the builders necessarily, but you know, the tradies that do the work for them. You know, there's great margins in the work, they can

Daniel Franco: 1:18:23

work anywhere, especially when it is aging, yes,

Rebecca Pickering: 1:18:27

100%. And we can't not have a civil industry, that's the real kicker. So in order to get water here, tap or get from A to B, or to build a, a high rise building, like we're in today, all these foundations need to be laid, it all has to happen. And it all has to happen for civil. And like other trades, you're always gonna have the government that puts out the bill for that. So you're always gonna get paid, the works Never gonna run out, you know, even if we build new new infrastructure in there needs to be maintained,

Daniel Franco: 1:18:55

so as to support the engineering element of it. So that's one of

Rebecca Pickering: 1:18:59

the pathways so you can come into your trade pathway for three years. And then you could do cert four, which is a bridging qualification, and then you can get into your university, your civil engineering degree if you like. But again, do you need to depend everyone? Yeah, 100% Depends on what your your career aspirations are.

Daniel Franco: 1:19:16

Going back to becoming and leaving, yes, leaving your business becoming CEO. Yes. You're obviously attracted to all these opportunities within and the great work that you're doing for the industry? How have you noticed the shift in the industry or the shift from doing running your own business to becoming see you

Rebecca Pickering: 1:19:37

I think the thing that I noticed the most running your own business, although you work still with a lot of clients and you're still engaging with a lot of people, it can be quite isolating. You don't really have your, your own team that you can form those relationships and those bonds with which I think are so important. So yeah, that was probably the one thing that I really missed when I worked for myself, and I had clients because they were your clients. Yeah, you really couldn't, you know, get involved in and really feel that you are making a difference or contributing because you're there to just do a project or a piece of work and then actually go. So yeah, I guess for me, yeah, that shift is getting back into a business and industry at a level where you really can leave your mark or try and again, for whatever my personal story adds to it, or my career, or that mentoring I can provide to other young people that are coming up behind me, I think it's really an opportunity that I'd hate to miss to be able to pass on, and make these provide opportunity for these young people and people I work with to be, you know, incredible at what they do and how they go about it. And so I think, for me, it's that sort of shift from from where we were to where we're going. And even from an industry perspective, trying to get young people to understand that, you know, to start a project doesn't mean you're gonna be in a shovel for steel life, it's this, it's the first step of a marathon, basically. And yeah, you can take it any way you want. Just make a step and just keep moving, like just do something, get this qualification under your belt, and then you can still be the prime minister, if you want to, you know, there's nothing to hold you back. But just make a start. So many kids. And industries are so I guess, you've got these challenges and hurdles that stop people from getting into it or overthinking things that really do constrain, you know, workforce development and pathways. That the end of the day we just actively get out there until kids you know what, start here and see how you go. Yeah, yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:21:38

So you probably get asked this question a bit. And you probably don't like the question itself, because this is not really the way you think. Yeah. But the construction civil industries, very male dominated industry have moving into this role as CEO. How has it been for you from a journey perspective? And the way

Rebecca Pickering: 1:21:59

it is? There's your question, and I do get asked that question. Quite a lot, which, again, is quite surprised or not surprising, I understand why the questions asked. But it's, it's a bit like you don't know what you don't know, I've only ever worked in, in construction. Obviously, my early part of my career when I was, you know, doing contract work, I was working in many different industries. But construction is what all I've known and loved for many years. So for me, I think that the difference for me is that I never went into any job or industry where I felt that I was anything, but just on the person doing the job. So I didn't see that obviously differs from Amanda to a female director, I didn't see any difference. And maybe some of that was because I was in it, which again, male dominated itself. So it was in a male dominated career and industry that's male dominated. So it's a double whammy, really. But I didn't see myself any different, I didn't see that. I couldn't do what you could do, or vice versa. So I never really made an issue of it. You know, if you're, you know, having a conversation with me which I think's inappropriate, and I'll have one straight back with you. That's probably inappropriate that yeah, so if you can, I guess, face off, and whether or not that's the right or wrong thing to do. I'm not going to wade into that. I know what worked for me. And I just found that if, yeah, keeping an open mind, trading all human beings, like the human beings, not like a man or a woman, I don't treat a man different to a way I treat a woman. So I don't expect to be treated any differently. Yeah. And I think, I don't know, once you sort of get rid of that Robin, you just get on with it.

Daniel Franco: 1:23:30

We're all human being but you do. Are you pushing the agenda of trying to close the gap there in the industry, you speak like engineering? Yes, there's a big gap. In civil there's, you can say

Rebecca Pickering: 1:23:42

the same thing for nursing and teaching careers to men no more and the breakdown. I'm a big advocate for diversity and inclusivity. And the the biggest thing that always worked towards is making sure that opportunity exists for everyone that wants to work in any given industry. So I think as as industries, we need to make sure those doors will open to everyone in the population. And we need that system. There's not enough of us to work at the moment anyway. So there's no point shutting down half the population unnecessarily. So if you want to get into the industry, you should be welcomed, you should feel comfortable. You know, there shouldn't be anything constraining you from doing what you want to do in any given industry. So I think that's probably the most important thing. Whether or not we'll get to a 5050 split in civil construction with men and women. I don't know.

Daniel Franco: 1:24:25

I mean, what the quarters shouldn't matter. I think what you're saying is, it's about making sure if you want to get in great

Rebecca Pickering: 1:24:30

you can get in Yeah, this road is open. Yeah, correct. And that you know, you're going to go into a safe workplace where you can work no matter how you present or how you go about life boots, you better do a job, best person for the job. Yeah, every every person should be treated respectfully, no matter what, you aren't who you are. And I'm mindful that sometimes, you know, men and women might not want to work in certain industries. And that's okay with me too. Yeah, yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:24:57

What are you most proud of?

Rebecca Pickering: 1:24:59

Oh, that's a big one. One. All right, I think probably my children and again, that's one thing that moms would always say. I think they're a reflection of yourself. I think they're, you know, again, I'm biased, but my children are lovely. I really lucked out with my kids. They're just amazing human beings that I'd be lost without

Daniel Franco: 1:25:19

Trudeau. Kudos. Yeah. That goes to you. I mean, your kids are amazing. Because of their parents.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:25:23

Yeah. My dad. Yeah. Parents. Yeah, absolutely. So

Daniel Franco: 1:25:27

yeah. So you've achieved a lot, you know, from from being your own business to CEO position, executive positions to board positions to ultramarathons to owning your own property?

Rebecca Pickering: 1:25:43

Yep. Yeah, I think yeah. And again, I get away from kids. Yeah. Things that I'm I'm proud of is, I guess, yeah. Getting there on my own. Whether it be my financial independence, or my career, or, you know, I've got no one to thank other than myself, really. And those people that I surround myself with, and actively choose to learn from, and yeah, I think, I don't know, it is, I guess, if you look at it, something to be proud of. Yeah. I don't know. It's, again, it's hard to see when you live in Yeah,

Daniel Franco: 1:26:13

I agree. On the on the mentor you have do you have a group of mentors or lunches

Rebecca Pickering: 1:26:20

really didn't get is I think they just happens instinctively, I think just people that you naturally want to be around, I think that are those people that I learned from? And again, I can learn from an eight year old product to you know, 100 year old doesn't really matter who they are. Because again, I think, yeah, everyone brings something different to you if you allow them and you open yourself up to it. So I can learn from anyone on any given day, I think I think that's part of the fun of it all.

Daniel Franco: 1:26:45

You take each conversation with an opportunity to learn, he said, Yeah,

Rebecca Pickering: 1:26:50

I think so I was fishing and some and some conversations. Yeah, you obviously want to keep it distance. So some unhealthy or toxic devotee life and you've got to shut those down and get away from those as quickly as you can, you got to be able to identify those two, you know, you do meet some people that are more draining on you than what they should be or so you need to be aware of yourself.

Daniel Franco: 1:27:10

See, have you made a conscious effort to disassociate yourself with those people that are draining? Or is it

Rebecca Pickering: 1:27:16

Yeah, unconsciously I think I think you just don't obviously make time for them in your life, really, you, you move on. And yeah, you were amazing, you know, making sure that there are other things that pop up that you know, means that you can't be in a company, where adults you can get through it and right through to you know, just shutting it down and being assertive with what you need. And don't need. I think that's, that's another thing as well that you need to, again, that about that accountability for yourself, you need to know yourself, and you need to know how to not enable poor performance or poor behavior around you, you know, if it's impact on you, then you need to step off. And I'm going to go over here and you could stay there. Those sorts of things.

Daniel Franco: 1:27:57

In that keynote, that you go over an acre event, you had some learning points that you wanted to draw out, and you're really passionate about, yes, can you Yeah, just go through other four points, go through those points.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:28:13

So the first one is about, we touched on it earlier, obviously, that that regret for nothing. So don't regret or resent, you know, what's been thrown at you or you or your life lessons, you learn, you learn the most from those, and I think they're there, they might not feel at the time that you're learning much. But you know, based on my personal experience, gee whiz, it'd be lost without them, you know, looking back retrospectively, it's amazing what you can learn from those. So regret nothing. Number two would be that it's obviously your own life. So own it, you know, make sure that you hold yourself accountable to get things done, you know, you've got no one else to blame, but yourself. Particularly as obviously you get near adulthood, it's it really is quite important that you identify what you need in life and make sure it happens and get on with it. The other one, number three, so be yourself. So and try and know who you are. And that can be quite a hard thing I found mine quite early, I understand and I, you know, paved my life that are still looking for who they are and what they are. And for me, I think it was about identifying things that were me and that I did like and I would hold on to and grow and strengthen right through to those things that you know what I needed to change that you know, when lack of assertiveness or letting go with certain events, those sorts of things. So find yourself be okay with it or change it. And then number four, that dig deep and lean in. So you know when time gets really hard when things are quite difficult for me keep that balance in your life. So it was keeping my mind my body, you know, everything busy, and it's an odd thing and you'd appreciate it when you're running. But if you just lean in like even half a centimeter it gets so much easier to run or as soon as you slide back and sort of you know fall back into your your stride. It's really hard to run, so try that. So for your listeners, just go for a walk and just go for a limited run. And if you just lean in just slightly, it makes a world of difference really. So yeah. So just to keep that analogy in your mind when you go through a problem, just lean into it a little bit more. And yeah, it just seems to get through a little bit easier.

Daniel Franco: 1:30:16

I think going back to your point to have, you can actually push yourself I think if you talk about Iran, yeah, running. Yeah, it's a great analogy. And yeah, from an example point of view, you can do so much more. And but you might not be able to do it to the best of your ability in that first instance. But the more and more you do it, yes, more and more you wake up and you put your shoes on, the first thing you do is put your shoes on and get out. This becomes easier.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:30:45

Correct? Correct. So use that in life and whatever it is, or problem or challenge that you're going through? And yes, you know that you'll get that point Have you finished and the confidence and the endorphins in the if you did it? Yeah. An enormous size. Yeah. And it wasn't you do and then you just keep looking for it. Yeah, it's what I keep doing. One way or the other. Yes.

Daniel Franco: 1:31:06

So we've gone well past the hour, Mark. Now. We love to sort of finish off with some few quickfire clients, although they never go quick. Oh, really? Maybe just ask. I'm gonna ask you some questions. Yeah, some random questions, but we won't be great. Is he at CGI? Q? Yes. I know that you What are you reading?

Rebecca Pickering: 1:31:30

So I've got a couple of books on my on the desk next to bed. So and that's probably where I find that I like to read is in bed. It's nice and cozy. Yeah. It's just a sci fi and like, Yeah, it's nice, just to push out. So I've got a couple books. I've got a hard Harvard Business Review book on strategy, which is again, just to stock something that your 30s Everything. Everyone's got one of three books here today. Yeah, I've got a book, which I've just started reading I've had for a while, but I haven't. I haven't picked it up for a bit. It's called Quiet. And it's about introverts. Okay. Yep. Which is a great sort of read and just sort of Yeah, it makes you think of things a little bit differently. I've got an Art of War book in there somewhere. I think that's at the bottom of the pile. So Sun Tzu's obviously, Art of War, which again, I always find quite interesting. And I always pick up something different on some of these books, if you just go back, and I have Yeah, and you can get different translations, as well. Which gives you the Yes, yes. I think, like four different versions, from his perspective. And yes, you know, your easy guide to it, those sorts of things. Yeah. Um, and then, yeah, I have a method. I'm a big fan of Matthew Raleigh. I actually so yeah, so I think he's got his latest one sitting on my bookshelf there.

Daniel Franco: 1:32:35

Do you read? Do you read based on mood? And yeah, and just

Rebecca Pickering: 1:32:38

bits and grabs? Yeah, I'm a bit like you if I'm a bit restless, or just want to escape or just, or I need to reflect on something for something I'm working on. Yeah, that's generally what I find. I'm reading or if I'm on holidays, that's how I tend to read, you know? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. If Yeah, if I feel inclined to escape into something. Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:32:58

That's where the Matthew Raleigh stuff. Yeah. Let's see. Good, fun. Good. It's

Rebecca Pickering: 1:33:01

a good read.

Daniel Franco: 1:33:03

I'm a big Indiana Jones fan. So he writes a lot. So he writes a lot of that type of Yes, yes. Yes. Very good off to get into. good read. If you were to recommend the development book to someone in whether it be the apprentice or trainee sheep, something that they could they could read and really kickstart their career. What?

Rebecca Pickering: 1:33:25

Oh, well, there's been so many. I'm just trying to think of those that are Yeah, all lined up on the bookshelf. I think I've got the name escapes me. But I think anything about that. Mindfulness and self talk, I think particularly young people character X. Yeah, yeah. No, it's, it's good. It's a it's a massive book. It's about mindfulness. And it's got this big messy tree on it. And it's quite a hefty book, but it's more like a reference book with, like quotes, and then a breakdown of what that means for you. So it's one of those books that again, for youth, they can just reference about, you know, I'm talking about, you know, self talk right now. So you can go to that section and read something that's a little bit inspirational. Yeah, that I think is easier to read and digest. I think so. But again, apologies. The name escapes me. I'll put it in this. Yeah, there you go. Thank you. b I've found that and I've had that in my bookshelf for years. And every now and then I'll still go back to it. It's just it's just

Daniel Franco: 1:34:21

a picture book. Notice

Rebecca Pickering: 1:34:24

tree on it. And yes, that mindfulness

Daniel Franco: 1:34:27

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Do you audio book as well? Or do you just write

Rebecca Pickering: 1:34:32

podcast when I'm hiking? Yeah, that's probably what I'd like to tune into podcasts are political ones so yeah, yeah, no. Nothing exciting and of course you're

Daniel Franco: 1:34:45

selfish but is there anyone that you admire looked up look up to

Rebecca Pickering: 1:34:53

personally business or is a could be

Daniel Franco: 1:34:55

anyone to be an actor could be a activist could be socialist, whoever?

Rebecca Pickering: 1:35:02

God, that's a good question. You know what? And again, I'm a big I'm a big one for, you know, here today and what I'm feeling most recently. So no one really comes to my mind currently of who's inspiring or driving or who has my, my attention on my focus right now. Yeah, no, I don't know if I can actually learn Maya Angelou in. Yes. Yeah. But again, not someone that I really. Yeah, I don't know. Identify as someone that Oh, yep. You know, this is what my Angelo would do. Like, you know, no, it's not if that's what that is. Yeah, no, no, not no one that I can quickly reference at this point in time.

Daniel Franco: 1:35:45

No problem at all. What some of the best advice that you've received.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:35:55

Throughout I've received, and I've heard from someone I think it's about when you're working through those problems that about that cognitive thinking. So that logical versus an emotive response to something. So your ability to be able to shut down irrational thoughts in yourself versus rational thoughts. So I've get really good at it now. But that's probably the best advice I've had. And probably that probably my early 20s, I think when you do start to let the world run away with you a little bit, and you you are finding yourself, it can be quite hard to make good decisions or feel good about certain things. So for me, I think their biggest piece of advice about cognitive conditioning and thinking, so you're making and really challenging your thinking. So if if you've got a fear about something, actually follow that fear through to the end. So if you're fearing that, you know, I'm not going to get the job, or I'm going to get a redundancy, then try and let your mind think about what does that mean? So if I'm redundancy, does that mean, okay, well, what am I going to do? When I've got a little bit of money in the bank, I could, I could bring down and see if he's got a job for me. Obviously, I bring my spouse or, you know, start to work through it. And you quickly figure out that whatever you're working on this and answer to it, or you can plan your way out of it. Or, you know, what, if my partner breaks up with me, or what if, you know, Harry falls off his bike and has an accident? Well, yeah, we'll work through that. So yeah, I think the best bit of advice I had was just allow yourself to just just just pick it up a little bit and just see where it lands, you when you quickly understand that it's not insurmountable.

Daniel Franco: 1:37:31

Well, that's right. I mean, fear is being scared of something that hasn't happened yet. Right. So

Rebecca Pickering: 1:37:38

many people don't just that just stops and stops them in their tracks. That's wrong. That's right. And again, you're doing yourself a disservice by because all the opportunities that could come from that event, if you've just taken that step. Yeah. I don't know. It's worth the risk, I think.

Daniel Franco: 1:37:52

Yeah, I agree. It's I take the same approach. I literally play it. Yeah. I think that's part of reading the play. Yeah. We talked about that earlier. Where if you can almost create scenarios that and yes, be comfortable with potential? Yes, then it makes it a lot easier when it does.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:38:13

Definitely 100%. You can you know, you've gone through this process. Okay. Not a rude shock or

Daniel Franco: 1:38:19

cooked for Yeah, same strategies. If you had access to a time machine, sorry. And you had one return trip? Yes. So go back and come back. Yeah, could go back and come back, either forward or backward.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:38:35

Oh, beyond my lifetime.

Daniel Franco: 1:38:37

Do you have a time machine? So the world is your oyster now?

Rebecca Pickering: 1:38:42

Again, I think that go back to meeting someone at a point in time. And now I want to tell you who because I think it's a too big a decision to make, like here now. But I think it will. I don't know someone who would just love to have a conversation with I think William Shakespeare Yeah, no, not not Shakespeare he'd be too hard to understand. Be too too beyond me. But maybe someone like totally out there like Einstein or someone like that, that was really introverted and just so left a field and just it's amazingly creative. praise someone like that, that again, you just don't make those people like that these days. Have you read Einstein's

Daniel Franco: 1:39:22

biography? You know what it probably would have been Oscar.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:39:26

But that's the thing. The thing and again what could we learn from that for today? Because again, absolute genius what he did but he was yeah, he probably wasn't not human being he did have his flaws. Yeah,

Daniel Franco: 1:39:38

I absolutely idolize a guy but it's more about everyone has their own strengths. Right. His strength is to you know, although he is something later in in life that he did regret was the atom bomb boy design. It's no one else has. Yes, he's someone who needs agonist and antagonist isn't it? Oh, something's good

Rebecca Pickering: 1:39:58

again. Oh, no, just be really good. Curious, I'd be someone like that. I think so I'm

Daniel Franco: 1:40:01

curious about the future.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:40:04

No, no, I don't think so. No, not. That's where anxiety lives in the future. Yeah. And I don't think I'd have any dire need to wish not wish my life away or to see in advance, but I wouldn't that then Cloud the possibilities of what you are today, because I could bet yeah. So yeah. So I don't know, I'd probably be more interested to look back and see what learnings you can take from where we've been. I don't know. I don't want to ruin the surprise. I guess what's coming? That's a really interesting question. And I'd love to think about that now. I think I'll text you tonight.

Daniel Franco: 1:40:43

I love it. If you get one superhero power, what would it be?

Rebecca Pickering: 1:40:47

If I could have a Super Fly? Fly? Yeah, I just got off for a while and yeah, I loved it. Absolutely loved it. So yep.

Daniel Franco: 1:40:54

Is that just because you want to get places quicker? We just love being in the sky.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:40:57

I love the freedom and a beautiful feeling. It really is. It's amazing.

Daniel Franco: 1:41:02

I'm too scared.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:41:03

I'm really not it's like come on. Why Why?

Daniel Franco: 1:41:07

Why why? I'm scared of the skydiving because I feel like I

Rebecca Pickering: 1:41:15

could voice better for you. I was too light. So really? Yeah, you don't fall properly when you too light. You've got too much away weights. So it could fall probably really? Yes.

Daniel Franco: 1:41:25

about buying it for me. We're not going on too heavy. I'm literally over the weight limit. Oh, yeah. I don't want to be up. Why put yourself in a situation where you can die, right? Doesn't make sense.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:41:42

Follow it through, you know?

Daniel Franco: 1:41:45

Not for me. Anyway, one day, one day. You're jumping out of a plane seems stupid.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:41:52

Like no, no planes you jump out or they're not the best place to get out of there. It's like, oh, I'm safe now. Thank God. So yeah, those systems aren't easy.

Daniel Franco: 1:42:00

I just saw a video clip he jumped out he was the first person to jump out and not have a parachute. Any but they haven't met set up.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:42:09

Oh god. Oh, nice. That's a bit yeah. Stretch. Not sure about that. Through I like to have redundancy. So now I like I like calculated risk. Not Yeah. Not not based on a net. Yeah, yeah. Okay, point.

Daniel Franco: 1:42:23

That's a bit of a stretch. And last question. What's your best mum joke?

Rebecca Pickering: 1:42:28

My best mum joke. Oh my god. I don't know if I have a mum joke though. Gee whiz,

Daniel Franco: 1:42:32

often known as dad jokes.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:42:34

Yeah. No, a lot of like the. Nah, I don't know. I've never told a stupid joke. I'm a really bad joke teller.

Daniel Franco: 1:42:42

That's the whole point.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:42:44

But bad luck. I start the punch line in the race floor. So no, I'm not probably Yeah, I mean, I'm sure my kids and I've joked around. But no, nothing comes to my mind. About Yeah, no. snow. The snow is dead. I always default to know what's yours. Oh, have you been asked before

Daniel Franco: 1:43:03

me? Personally, I'm, I'm 1000.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:43:07

Come on, you should end your podcast with at least one if I haven't got one.

Daniel Franco: 1:43:11

I'd say if you if you drive past the cemetery, yes. Right. Know If you drive faster. And you just point to you tell you kids dead center of the suburb?

Rebecca Pickering: 1:43:31

Really? If you're if your guest doesn't have one that he has to.

Daniel Franco: 1:43:43

I think yesterday morning, I sat there and told him just randomly about 20 off the cuff.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:43:48

Oh, you didn't know. My kids. Look at me. How does that stay in there? So that sort of stuff just doesn't it just like, float to the top.

Daniel Franco: 1:43:54

I'm stupid. I just got just don't retire. I love that. That's beautiful. Thank you very much for your time. Rebecca. today. It's been an amazing chat. Thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for being brave enough to share that it's it is a really, really amazing story. Lots of experiences going through and learnings for people to pick up from from you. How do we and are we able to get in touch with you? How do we get in touch with you?

Rebecca Pickering: 1:44:23

Yeah, of course, you could probably reach out obviously, by yourselves. LinkedIn on LinkedIn quite actively or civil contracts Federation, you can get me as well. So yeah, happy to provide my contact details through self. If anyone wants to reach out

Daniel Franco: 1:44:36

well, we'll put all your details in the notes and

Rebecca Pickering: 1:44:40

we're happy to share the message. And I particularly do a lot of discussions with schools and businesses. So yeah, wherever you think the message might resonate more than happy to jump in.

Daniel Franco: 1:44:49

Beautiful. Thanks again for your time, much appreciated.

Rebecca Pickering: 1:44:51

Thank you very much. Thank you.

Synergy IQ: 1:44:53

Thank you once again for joining us here at creating synergy. It's been great spending this time with you. Please jump onto the synergy IQ Facebook and LinkedIn page where the discussion continues after the show, join our mailing list so you'll know what's happening next at Synergy iq.com.au And of course, don't forget to subscribe to this podcast. And if you really enjoyed it, please share it with your friends.