Jo Stewart-Rattray has 25 years' experience in the technology field, where she's worked in multiple industries and multiple positions and worked her way up to into Chief Information Officer roles and Chief Security Officer. She currently works as a consultant helping her clients through strategic technological issues and opportunities.
In today's episode, we spoke about Joe's journey, how she rose to the positions where she is now and how she and we can all enable more women in technology. We also delve into some of the cyber risks that face the world.
Where to find Jo Stewart-Rattray: Jo's LinkedIn
Books mentioned on this episode:
Daring to Drive: A Saudi Woman's Awakening
Hard Choices by Hillary Clinton
Becoming by Michelle Obama
Join the conversation on Synergy IQ LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram (@synergyiq) and please support other leaders by liking, subscribing and sharing this podcast.
Access SynergyIQ Website to get to know more about us.
Say hello to our host Daniel on LinkedIn.
Jo Stewart-Rattray has 25 years' experience in the technology field, where she's worked in multiple industries and multiple positions and worked her way up to into Chief Information Officer roles and Chief Security Officer. She currently works as a consultant helping her clients through strategic technological issues and opportunities.
In today's episode, we spoke about Joe's journey, how she rose to the positions where she is now and how she and we can all enable more women in technology. We also delve into some of the cyber risks that face the world.
Where to find Jo Stewart-Rattray: Jo's LinkedIn
Books mentioned on this episode:
Daring to Drive: A Saudi Woman's Awakening
Hard Choices by Hillary Clinton
Becoming by Michelle Obama
Join the conversation on Synergy IQ LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram (@synergyiq) and please support other leaders by liking, subscribing and sharing this podcast.
Access SynergyIQ Website to get to know more about us.
Say hello to our host Daniel on LinkedIn.
Welcome to creating synergy where we explore what it takes to transform. Whether you are transforming yourself, your team, your business, or your community will connect you with insightful and challenging leaders who share their stories of successful transformations. To give you practical ideas for your own journey. Join us for another insightful episode of creating synergy.
Daniel Franco:Hi there. synergises Welcome back to another episode of The creating synergy podcast. My name is Daniel Franco, your host and today we have an amazing human being named Jo Stewart-Rattray on the show. Joe is a country gal at heart and has had over 25 years experience in the technology field, where she's worked in multiple industries in multiple positions and worked her way up to into CIO roles and CSO roles, which is chief security officer. She currently works as a consultant helping her clients through strategic technological issues, and opportunities and attributes a big part of the success in technology and cybersecurity with a qualifications in education and management. Joe is chaired a number of regional and international boards and committees and including some seven years on his soccers International board of directors and is currently Chair of its Global Women's in Leadership Initiative coach she leads tech she leads tech is on a mission to create parity between the numbers of women and men in technology. Because of her involvement with a soccer and the she leads tech program, Joe was invited to join the official Australian government delegation to the 62nd session of the United Nations Commission on the Status of Women which was held in New York in March 2018. A fun fact for you. Soccer is now established an award in Joe's honor to recognize his outstanding leadership and commitment to increasing the representation of women in technology leadership, and the workforce. today's podcast is a pivotal one one that I absolutely love. We spoke about Joe's journey, how she rose to the positions in where she is currently now and how she and we can all enable more women in technology. And some we also delve into some of the cyber risks that face the world, especially during this pandemic. I hope you'll enjoy it. Cheers. Welcome to the creating synergy podcast. My name is Daniel Franco. I'm your host, and today we have the beautiful Joe Stewart-Rattray, who is joining us. Thank you for being here, Joe.
Jo Stewart-Rattray:Thank you, Daniel. It's been a long time since someone said that. I'm very flattered. Thank you.
Daniel Franco:Not a problem at all. Based on all of our conversations we have, we've had, I've gathered a really great opinion of you. So I feel like I'm empowered to say that, Oh, thank you. really interested in your journey. Again, like I said, I've heard you speak. Or I've been caught up with you personally and heard more about your journey, and felt really, really, or felt the need for for more people to hear your story. So I had to have you on the show. Can you tell us a little bit about your journey, what you do who you are your family life, I'd love to just delve into your background and learn a little bit more about you
Jo Stewart-Rattray:once upon a time, a long time ago. That's always a good way to start a story. But I think we want to go back that far.
Daniel Franco:Well, depends, we might end up
Jo Stewart-Rattray:and I started my life in the bush and I and I still am a rural woman I still live in in the bush and but I work in the city. And quite honestly, with today's technology, we can work anywhere. And that's and I'm certainly one of those people who do that. So I'm currently on SOCOM went to silver chain group. I'm their chief security officer. But I also am the I have a practice that I'm the lead force. I'm the director of of security and technology assurance for BRM advisory in Adelaide. So that's the other part of the day job. And so, you know, I've also walked down the path of being a CIO as well. So CIO in the electricity businesses. I was one of the first CIOs in Australia to be responsible for both real time and and business it so that was, you know, SCADA and operational control systems as well as business it so that was an interesting place to be that was my first CIO role. And then also I've been CIO a group CIO of a group of high end tourism companies as well. Security has been a first love for most of the time. So I've been a virtual seat sighs Oh for a number of organizations over the years. So you know, when they don't feel they have The need for a sighs Oh, permanently, I'll go and give them some of my time. Yeah, to assist them. However having said that they generally then realize that there's actually
Daniel Franco:a Yeah. How did you tell us about you your journey into actually First of all, let's start off with family life. So your, your background children? No,
Jo Stewart-Rattray:no, no, I didn't have children I decided I'd leave that to people who knew what they were doing. And I certainly was not one of them. So and I, you know, I still don't think I'm grown up enough to have children, although I love other people's kids. So you know, it's always great fun.
Daniel Franco:All right, when you can handle them back.
Jo Stewart-Rattray:I'm historic at Auntie who keeps the noisy toys,
Daniel Franco:and all the chocolate and
Jo Stewart-Rattray:the chocolate and the recording? All
Daniel Franco:righty. I don't like people like you.
Jo Stewart-Rattray:So I have, I have a husband and two dogs, and we live in the beautiful clear Valley in South Australia.
Daniel Franco:Gabrielle is going to claim earlier this weekend or next week?
Jo Stewart-Rattray:I can give you some tips then. So yeah, it's a great place to live. And I love living and working up there. And so yeah, that's
Daniel Franco:beautiful. And so your journey into the world becoming a leading in tech and security. Can you give us a bit of background and how just, you know, quick sort of snapshot of your career and your growth to the to lead roles?
Jo Stewart-Rattray:Yeah, a lot of hard work. I mean, essentially, that's the answer is a lot of hard work, a lot of study. And you know, as a woman in this business, I have to say we were sorely underrepresented. And so I always felt that I had to do that bit more. I had to be more qualified, put in more hours, do harder work to get noticed. Now, whether that's true or not, I'm not sure. But it was certainly my perception. So that was the the journey that I took 11 years of university
Daniel Franco:11 years, so what did Yeah,
Jo Stewart-Rattray:I did an undergraduate diploma than I did. I did a bachelor's degree. And then I did a master's degree
Daniel Franco:all intech or what?
Jo Stewart-Rattray:No, no, no.
Daniel Franco:Psychology.
Jo Stewart-Rattray:Yeah, educational psychology and lifespan developmental psychology were a large part of that. And education, adult education. So. So yeah, that's been a little bit different than postgraduate work was in in ITand security. So yes.
Daniel Franco:So you said you just mentioned that the female cohort is under represented in the in the technology world. Why is that? I know you've done a lot more definitely delve into it. You've run a program for the UN. And she leads tech, which is fantastic. And I want to dive into that story. But why do you believe it is under it is me so under represented, I should say? Yeah. Why do you believe
Jo Stewart-Rattray:it is underrepresented in the tech workforce, but women are underrepresented generally in the workforce. And companies are actually leaving 13 trillion US dollars a year on the table by not employing more women at senior level. And that came from the Peterson Institute. So that's not a number that I just pulled out of here.
Daniel Franco:Can you elaborate on that? Well, when you say leaving the table, they're just not
Jo Stewart-Rattray:there opportunities that are missing. We know that organizations particularly if they have a see a female CEO or female senior management are actually more productive. The there's been an interesting stat come out just in the last two days here in Australia is that we've gone backwards here. We've gone from having 12 female CEOs and the ASX 200 down to 10. So only 5% of CEO roles in this country are held by an ASX 200. I hope I women. I sorry. It's a global issue too.
Daniel Franco:I did hear a statistic though that it was through the showing shoot of company directors that top I think there's only one ASX listed company that doesn't have a female in their board. Is that correct?
Jo Stewart-Rattray:I don't think that is correct. The IICD last year had an art had a piece in the Australian talking about 12 organizations that didn't have women on their boards. And those, in fact, when some of those chairs were asked why one of the answers was absolutely astonishing. It was well, we don't know any women that we could invite. Yeah, another said well, you know, if we had women on the board, meetings that take too long, they'd want to talk. Yeah, so here we are. That was 2019. Right? That attitude is still pervasive. So I think that kind of explains why women are underrepresented.
Daniel Franco:Yeah, I will go and research the x I'm quite positive or soar and I'm a member of the aaRC and I saw an article come through that said something So let's
Jo Stewart-Rattray:well that's interesting, because yesterday was ABC yesterday, right? Yeah, it was was and it was I was CEO women.
Daniel Franco:Yes. CEO. So um, yeah, I'm talking board,
Jo Stewart-Rattray:CEO women. So but as I say that was that was from the Oz 2019. So yeah, have a look at that as well.
Daniel Franco:that will definitely will. I'm really interested in this because I think my brain sort of works in a way. Well, you know, if you look at historically, you know, the the heavy lifting rolls, are generally, you know, in statistics around this, and I'm not, I don't know, I'm not trying to be controversial, but heavy lifting roles generally go to the, you know, the male population and more. Whereas in the more nurturing roles, or more the UFC more in the female population, technology is neither or one of either of those. So I'm trying to understand, and I'm just have two, I have two daughters and nine year old girl and eight year old and a six year old, who are obsessed with tech, they love coding, they're all in there into it. And so they're naturally drawn to it now. So I'm really interested, I guess there's two questions. Why is there this gap when it doesn't sort of fit the the general norm, I guess, and number two, with, especially as a parent of two young daughters, I'd love them to grow in this world, because I know how fruitful and enjoyable it could be. What, what are your suggestions
Jo Stewart-Rattray:let me take question to first, and let me say this to you. You need to do everything that you can to encourage them into a STEM career into STEM study, and then a STEM career.
Daniel Franco:elaborate on STEM force,
Jo Stewart-Rattray:science, technology, engineering and mathematics beautiful. So it's really it's about it's also about the people that they made, do they meet other people that look like them, so women, or girls who are interested in STEM, so that's the other thing they have to be open to those people. So they can actually see that there is a path for them. That's the other thing. Yeah.
Daniel Franco:I'll give you a quick story on that. My, it was book week, a week or two ago, and my daughter's kind of broke the norm a little bit. One went as Amelia Earhart, he dressed up as Amelia Earhart, who if for those who don't know, was the first female pilot pilot to fly alone by across the Pacific, and really a game changer in that sort of aviation world.
Jo Stewart-Rattray:And unfortunately, was lost.
Daniel Franco:I know, I know. And so, but my daughter's got a little obsession with her and my other daughter was went as a neurosurgeon who took a brain into school. So I look for me, absolutely. That is the world that I'm really trying to push into.
Jo Stewart-Rattray:Well, of course, aviation is about technology. That's correct.
Daniel Franco:And giving them the role models, I guess,
Jo Stewart-Rattray:let me just go back to the story. The question that you asked me though, the other, it really is up to parents to to encourage. A friend of mine in Queensland is very much involved in helping chart a path for and helping parents chart the paths for their kids into industry, in particular, young women, young girls, and he said that he's been coming up a grid against parents who are actively discouraging girls from that career path because of lower salary levels, than their male colleagues, and that's absolutely true. And the inequality that they face, say, but why, or
Daniel Franco:why, but why is I guess the ultimate question? I guess it's a closed viewpoint, though, isn't it? I mean, you're not really challenging your children to break boundaries. And well, that's challenge the norm.
Jo Stewart-Rattray:You know, I always say that, yes. People have asked me many times have you come up against the glass ceiling? I've said, No, it's not a glass ceiling. It's a granite ceiling. Because my dad was a builder. He taught me to use a jackhammer early in my life. So all good with that, right. But you have to crack through you absolutely do because women do think differently. And that's an absolutely positive thing. We need the synergy of the different thinking approaches, right? That diversity of thought is really important in leadership. And so I it's my belief that we should be encouraging our kids, our daughters to crack through that ceiling.
Daniel Franco:generation. Yeah, absolutely. It's
Jo Stewart-Rattray:not just the next generation. It's beyond that. Right. As far as I'm concerned. It's about helping young women who are already entering the workforce, all the way down to kids at school. Right. To me, it's about cradle to grave. Yeah. You know.
Daniel Franco:Is it is it a matter of time before we see parity, or is it like, how does it
Jo Stewart-Rattray:Yeah, I can tell you about that. According to Ernst and Young, they say that it's about 80 years before in the tech industry in this country, we see parity. If we look at the United Nations, the Secretary General at both the 2019 and the 2020 opening statements for the Commission on the Status of Women very clearly said that he was not prepared for his granddaughters, granddaughters, granddaughters, to be have to wait that long before parody across, you know, employment types across the world. Now, that's 200 years if you add all of that together, so they're the numbers that we currently have.
Daniel Franco:That's frightening, it is frightening. So, going back to the question, what can we do is just encouraged is that your
Jo Stewart-Rattray:I think each one of us can make a difference. It's about change of changing the thought landscape, right. And we can all make a difference in in small ways. For me, I always say, you know, we all we each have our own sphere of influence. And we need to make those changes in our own sphere of influence, start people thinking about equality. And by doing that, it's like, if somebody says to me, oh, it'd be 15 man hours in that job, no, it'd be 15 staff hours in that job or resource hours in that job, or manpower. Your Language is pretty staffing levels, right. So it's, it really is about making those small changes, and you lump all of those small changes together, and you have a massive change. Right? So and calling people out if the behavior is inappropriate and inequitable. You know, that's the other thing, whether it be a male or a female, you call that out. You know, I was in a meeting, not that long ago, where a chief finance officer, and myself and two other women and a consultant was sitting around a table discussing an audit that was coming up and how it should be approached. The CFO just looked at his deputy and said, Oh, well, you won't have to worry about this. You'll be pregnant again by then. Now, that is just totally inappropriate. I just looked at Gabby's face, and it was
Daniel Franco:the same, I
Jo Stewart-Rattray:but it's true. So and that was in that was in 2018. Right. 2018. So already talking two years ago You live to your own values, right? that that happened, and, and I hear that kind of happening, I called it out immediately, I called it out and said, I'm sorry, that's inappropriate for doing that. That's good. Exactly. I mean, I could have lost my consulting position as a result of that, but I would, who wants to work in Exactly. And I think that's, that's what leadership is about to you have to be authentic to your own values, right. And so my value was, don't take that. And so that's why I say we need to be making that kind of difference.
Daniel Franco:So can you can you just go on like, this is an interesting story. Your response? How did he take that?
Jo Stewart-Rattray:He was stunned. He looked at me with what was wrong with it? Yeah. He also
Daniel Franco:So lack of self awereness and situation.
Jo Stewart-Rattray:Same person, different scenario. I was talking with a couple of guys in the team that I was helping build for this organization. And two older guys, great professionals great with what they did. And see if I walked in and said, I suppose you three are talking about nursing homes, given the age of these two guys, right. And I just got hi. I said, you're in the site, couldn't help myself said y u're in the same age group. So I don't think this is a disc ssion that we really need to hav. Do you? I don't think it's a propriate. Well, but I caught you know, I called him out. I probably shouldn't have said, ou're in the same age group. But I just couldn't help it, Da iel, because to me, it was just inappropriate.
Daniel Franco:Yeah, no, it's not a
Jo Stewart-Rattray:So, there are people out there with with those kinds of attitudes that are offensive in the workplace.
Daniel Franco:Yeah. Does that attitude? Do you think that it's us getting weeded out, though?
Jo Stewart-Rattray:I'd like to say it is, but it's not. I was in Ireland, and I was conducting a panel at a conference on just this kind of topic. And there we had men and women on the panel. We had young women, older women, young men, older men, it was really good panel, and I was moderating. And so there was a young woman who was doing. I was coming to the beginning, I think she was just beginning her second year of her Comp Sci degree at the University of Dublin, so, a very prestigious university. And so I was asking her, you know, what made you get in the tech path? And she said, Well, you know, I had five brothers, and my five brothers were, you know, into coding early. And so they were but they were coding all these games. That was in a warrior type games. And then she said, I loved the idea of coding, and I loved getting into it, but she said, I didn't want to be blokey. I wanted to be able to create something for other young women that would attract them to coming into into the world of gaming
Daniel Franco:gaming the product you want to
Jo Stewart-Rattray:correct And so that was her attitude. And so she was fantastic. And she's but then she said to me, the issue that I faced was that when I walked into my tutorial class at uni, she said there were 30 young guys. And she said, I gotta say, that are pretty stereotypical nerds, hoodies perhaps hadn't showered often enough, you know, all the other
Daniel Franco:video games,
Jo Stewart-Rattray:or the basement sort of stuff. So anyway, so she said. So she had five brothers, so she was okay with that. She knew what she knows, knew what that was about. Yeah. And being the testosterone fueled environment didn't worry her much.
Daniel Franco:Yeah, she'd seen it all.
Jo Stewart-Rattray:The other weal young woman though, came from a family of six girls. So it horrified her just too much testosterone and pheromones in the air for her. And at the end of her first year, she dropped out, even though and so it was interesting, both these young women held the same beliefs that they weren't to be there. And they didn't see themselves as hardcore because they saw themselves as creators, which is a really interesting differential, right?
Daniel Franco:It's a more holistic viewpoint, isn't it?
Jo Stewart-Rattray:Yeah, it is design and creativity, but using code to get there, which I thought was a really was really cool. So I just thought it was interesting to see the difference. So one young woman was able to cope with the environment, and the other not. So I think that's what happens when young women are going into the tech workforce for the first time. They're either going to love it and not be bothered by by there being such a predominance of young men. Or are they going to hate it, and they'll change career quite quickly. The other thing that we see is that young men and young women when they first start in the workforce will start at an even level as graduates. But the moment the first, the first management star job comes on the radar, we start to see a pay gap disparity beginning.
Daniel Franco:Why is that?
Jo Stewart-Rattray:You ask the employers? I don't know. But I will say this women tend to be their own worst enemies. In some respects. A woman is very honest, if you said to a woman in an interview situation, and how much are you currently earning? She's actually telling me $50,000 or whatever,$500,000. You know, I'm earning$50,000. Instead of saying, I understand this, this role is worth x in the marketplace. Yeah. You know, where a man would go in there, a young man would go in there and say, I believe this role is worth x in the marketplace, or would right out lie, say I'm on $250,000 a year? Yeah. Well, he's actually on 80. But you know what I mean
Daniel Franco:I always inflated when I was going through. You would be silly not to.
Jo Stewart-Rattray:But that's, that's the difference. Yeah.
Daniel Franco:So it is interesting, but I have heard this discussion before, not only from the start of a roll, but once embedded in a row, that I don't know the percentages, but they're saying men are more likely to ask for a pay rise as well. Where were the faint females. More
Jo Stewart-Rattray:Interesting results came out of a survey that I sarker put out at the end of 2019. It was the tech workforce 2020 survey, about three and a half 1000 professionals globally, both male and female, were interviewed as a result. And they came out and and the interesting thing about it was it showed that women, if they asked for a pay rise, were more likely to get it than their male counterpart. Wow. So so that was interesting. I guess
Daniel Franco:there's one for you Gabs.
Jo Stewart-Rattray:She's smiling. So that's an interesting juxtaposition. Right? So it's about women need the confidence to ask for a pay rise? Yeah. Because traditionally, that's what it's about. Yeah. It's, it's also about the 8020 rule. You know, women are feel that they need to know at least 80% of the job to go for that job.
Daniel Franco:makes logical sense,
Jo Stewart-Rattray:right, or to have or to have achieved 80% of their KPIs before asking for then it next salary increment, right? where a guy will do it the reverse, I can do 20% of that.
Daniel Franco:We generally think we know more
Jo Stewart-Rattray:Give it a crash, right. So yeah,
Daniel Franco:isn't it amazing that were anomic Yeah, is it it's amazing how stereotypes can grow out of all this. Look, we won't go down that path. I don't think we could talk hours but I'm really interested in the program that you lead the She leads tech program. Can you give us some background?
Jo Stewart-Rattray:Yeah. Funny story. It started off I'd been you know, I'm an active member of ISACA which is a professional body for IT professionals across the world in security governance risk and assurance
Daniel Franco:ISACA is that security is an acronym
Jo Stewart-Rattray:used to be an acronym it's no longer just ISACA we have about 150,000 members in just about 200 countries around the world so large organization i've been saying for years that we didn't have a women's program because again highly male dominated association really needed to say some some exposure like faces people who looked like me so god help them close enough you know so the more of them around the better definitely some female absolutely faces so i was sitting on the international board of directors which i had the great privilege of doing for seven years and i had made this statement over over again we need a women's program we need a women's initiative what are we doing for our female members how are we encouraging females to join the association lidl in the profession and so i was sitting in a boardroom in Brussels in 2015 june 2015 when they're giving out portfolios to the board members so felt my name has not been mentioned by yes a year just being a board member how nice and then the chief knowledge office officer stands up and chatting away and this is going to happen and that's going to happen at all and by the way there's a brand new initiative and we're giving it to Joe Stuart Rattray
Daniel Franco:thanks for thanks for
Jo Stewart-Rattray:that initiative but he said it's the women's initiative that was it that was all i had was you're getting the women's initiative and you know you got to make it work okay oh excellent so yeah yes water dip in you're in it, so that was in june and then in september of the same year we kicked it around with the CEO what we're going to do about it how the you know move forward he employed a fabulous woman to come on board who specialized in getting programs off the ground and also finding funding for those programs so she came on board and she and i met in Washington DC nd i have to say hit it off like you wouldn't believe you know just two peas in a pod burleigh off we went and so we began to craft this initiative and so we had to give it a holding name while we were thinking about it you know so we call it connecting women in tech not women leaders in technology much too long much too wordy but we we had to come up with something just to start it off and we needed to find out from our membership whether they really wanted this because we didn't want to go spend membership money if they don't want to so we had a networking event at a security really in depth sort of security nexus event in washington and it was a women's networking event and we were stunned it was completely sold out this networking event and they were the first time ever this conference had 30% female participation now whether it was because we you know posed the question about about networking, women's events, women's initiative i don't know but all of a sudden we had these you know all of these people turn up and the networking event was fabulous and we just said we wanted to run some focus groups and to talk to women about the issues that they faced in the workplace how we could help them as an association etc again we thought you know i might get one focus group up that'll be the end of it we were oversubscribed in 15 minutes so we spent the rest of that week in essentially in focus groups the whole time and we kept there you know like themes that we kept hearing but overwhelmingly yes we need this and interestingly we had some male allies i like to call them come to us and say we absolutely as an association need this program so i was asked to form a women's leadership council so i did and i had global representation on that we met for the first time on the third of january 3 of january 2016 in new york city and i have to tell you it was freezing cold and we began to craft what it was going to look like and this is where she leads tech began to evolve and it became she leads tech and you know so we were looking to engage and we were talking about not just engaging women but engaging our male allies as well, so we wanted to engage. Clearly we needed to empower for what was going to be the food A. So colleague and I was sitting in the lobby of the hotel after dinner one night, and we were determined we were not going to bed until we had that 3rd day. So a couple of glasses of red Australian red later
Daniel Franco:the best, best way to come up with a decision.
Jo Stewart-Rattray:Neither elevators Yeah. And all of a sudden, I heard the ding and and Tara and I both looked at one other went elevate. Yes. So there was the third day. So I became engaged in power, elevate, were our three. So that's our catchphrase. Or tagline. So from there, we began to craft what this would look like. And we definitely needed to, it needed to be education involved with it. So own time, own place, anywhere kind of webinars, and educational opportunities for women, particularly if they're out of the workforce doing the most important thing that women do in their lives, to have babies, you know, they need to be able to be kept in involved, because we know that's when we often lose women. Yeah, during that 12 month period in Australia, really important. So we had those kinds of opportunities that we were going to develop those kind of opportunities, very practical stuff, like how you find your voice, if you have to speak to senior executive or the board, all kinds of stuff like that. So that's one part of it, that a whole education awareness about also forming global alliances with other organizations that are like minded because ISACA was a bit late to the journey, right? So we did that. Also looking at preparing to lead, so preparing women to be leaders. So and that would be depending on where that where you are on the journey. You might be an aspiring leader, or you might actually be in leadership, but you want some tips and tricks. We also wanted to showcase women and tell the stories that women had both positive and negative stories. So I had a very great privilege of rolling the program out personally with my staff, colleagues, to 16 countries, including including three African nations. And I have to say some of the stories we heard in Africa just absolutely stunned us.
Daniel Franco:Yeah, leave that for another book.
Jo Stewart-Rattray:I think a whole other podcast
Daniel Franco:you last time when we spoke, you mentioned the story of the UN. And when the decision was passed, can you That was really like me goosebumps. Can you elaborate on that?
Jo Stewart-Rattray:Sure. I was. It goes back to She Leads Tech. I was hosting a She Leads Tech event in Canberra. And, you know, I had a board room full of amazingly quite high high profiled women. And we were talking about where we thought She Leads Tech could go. And I talked about that notion of global alliances with other organizations like minded organizations, and I just said, off the cuff, one of the organization's I'd really like to get my feet under the table with would be UN Women, they operate across the world. They're in the third world, they're in developing nations. They do some really incredible work with with women in the equality strikes. And this would be a great place. And I'd love to meet the ambassador for women and girls. And so I went on with the rest of it and said goodbye to everybody in the last person to leave the room was somebody from Department of product Prime Minister and Cabinet who was very senior. And she said to me, Joe, I know you're running for plane. But I'm going to send you a link to an opportunity tonight. You only have a couple of days to do something with it. But I actually want you to put your hat in the ring for it. So I said, Sure. And of course, flew home didn't think anything of it standing up
Daniel Franco:so used to everything and then figure it out.
Jo Stewart-Rattray:Yeah, figured out. Exactly. Oh, went through this. Anyway. So I stood up, turn my phone on. And there was a ding. Oh, it was from her. And sure enough, there was the link. Oh my gosh. So I'm standing there in the in the aisle of the aircraft. And I'm looking at this link and I click on it, and I and I start to read it and I'm going oh my gosh, I can't do that. Yes, I can. All the things I tell women that I mentor not to do. I can't do that. Yes, I can't. No, I can't Yes. Okay. And what that what it was, it was to put in a submission to be a candidate and potentially become part of the official Australian government delegation to the United Nations 62nd session of the Commission on the Status of Women and to be an advisor to that delegation. And the theme for the session was empowering rural women and girls through the use of technology. So right in the sweet spot, right.
Daniel Franco:And so, thought process, I can't do that quick.
Jo Stewart-Rattray:Yeah, came up again. And so I quickly sent a text to my, my American colleagues and said, Do you think I should do this? Do you think I should put my hat in the ring for this? Because you know, this would be that our program is going to the highest level. They're American. So they said, hell Okay, so the next two days, I'm typing stuff up, and I'm sending it to them. They're critiquing it, they're sending it back to me. And these two women were sensational. And I would can't do this. I'd get two texts back, say, Yes, you can. So I went through all of that. And and so, you know, Sunday morning came, I did the final reads through press send and felt sick. Now wait, no, Hang on. Hang on. At least I've had a crack. Yeah, I've had a crack. So off it went. But you still fuzzy? Yes. Yeah, exactly. And because you really want this, right. So several weeks go by and I'm presenting in in Melbourne, and my pockets buzzing. I'm going. That's really irritating. I'm presenting I can't answer that. But it's obviously something urgent cuz it keeps buzzing. Anyway, I had a soon as I got offstage, I quickly had a little listen to the message that was this is the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet Office for women. Can you please call the director for international engagement immediately? This is it. This is the kiss of this is the thanks. But no thanks. It's what I had to crack. I had a cracker. So I rang and they said, Would you? Would you mind being interviewed for the delegation? Let me check with you. And then I mean, she did say to me, where would you like to do? When would you When would you like to be interviewed? I'm going, sorry. Well, I've worked all of that out. And I for the next. I think it was five days, I absolutely read everything about what Australia had done at the UN and what Australia had done in relation to the Commission on the Status of Women. I read all the stuff that Hillary Clinton had talked about in Beijing, way back, you know, 20 something years ago. And so I did all of that. And I was ready for the interview. Well, you know, you can tell I like a chat. So what do you reckon I did? They asked me the one question that I thought was a bit strange. And Joe, what's your role in civil society? I say, I live in it. And I went on. That is not the right answer. So I quickly backtrack as fast as I can find the
Daniel Franco:correct answer.
Jo Stewart-Rattray:She Leads Tech and all the stuff I've done. And so Think, think I think, anyway, that was fine. And I, and I just still thought that, you know, there were 150 other women apply for this. Yeah. What are the chances? What are the chances? So another week goes by and then I get a phone call from my, one of my referees. And he said to me, and he had a really high powered role in Queensland Government. And he rang me and said, so I reckon you go to New York in March pattern. He said, Yeah, my alright. Can you go to New York in March? I said, Why? He said, I basically told him, they'd be mad if I didn't take you. So I suddenly thought, now I know why I asked him to be my referee, he was prepared to lie for me. Excellent. So anyway, you know, we don't cry in security. But about a week later, I get a phone call from Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet. And I said, so you prepare to go to New York in March. What do you think about that? Yeah. What do I sign? Of course, I said he is and then I got off the phone, and I did I burst into tears. I couldn't believe it. We don't cry and security, what am I doing? But it was just such an emotional feeling to realize that I was going to play a part in hopefully making a difference for 100 for women and girls in 193. Members today is
Daniel Franco:amazing. It's it's you. Purpose is reason why you're here is to make a difference, isn't it?
Jo Stewart-Rattray:Well, that's right. And so it was you know, and I decided when I was seven years old, that I wanted to go to the United Nations and that I wanted to make a difference for other people.
Daniel Franco:I reckon I was 30 until I knew what the United Nations seven years old.
Jo Stewart-Rattray:I was a huge Audrey Hepburn. And I'd seen a movie where she had been working at the UN and I thought
Daniel Franco:that's what I want to do.
Jo Stewart-Rattray:So that was the story. Well done. So I got there. Then the work began,
Daniel Franco:and then the work began. And so what's the result of your program? How did it go?
Jo Stewart-Rattray:that piece of work was the most amazing and very intense two and a half to three weeks and we did make a difference we actually got 193 member states to agree to the position that we had put forward and so that was astonishing it's something that you don't ever think is going to happen because if there's one clause not agreed to you have no
Daniel Franco:the next six years 193 signatures
Jo Stewart-Rattray:it's a lot yeah and so you know we we we talked about everything some curly issues that face young women in many countries things like they can't go to school for one week a month because there's no proper sanitation for them there the availability in some countries of sanitary products for women is small to non existent or very expensive so all of this plays into some of the things that we had to discuss because we're trying we're looking at the equality for girls women and girls so we need to make sure that they have equal opportunity right and so that means addressing these issues and what stunned me was that some of the people who stood to speak on these subjects were often men because they recognized how hamstringing this was for young young girls and women so i was really blown away by by some of the diplomats so yeah so we made a difference in a lot of ways and of course the use of technology is one way that if a girl can't go to school for that period of time at least she she could work, women can also connect with their with a market if they're young entrepreneur for instance i'm not even young an entrepreneur because one of the things that you see in in nations like africa for instance you'll see that there not a lot of what we call real jobs so people out of necessity become entrepreneurial but they need to be able to connect to a market so you can do that through and then then you have economic empowerment as well through the use of technology so these are some of the differences that that that we've made and it will be a six year journey for those countries those member states to get to a point but every year they have to report back to the commission on the status of women as to where they're up to and what they've managed to do during that that last 12 months period now some countries are in better places than others yeah
Daniel Franco:i was gonna ask that very question is that you know you talk about the sanitary and not and not being very effluent in in the in the ability to buy these products how are they buying computers and technology and
Jo Stewart-Rattray:the interesting thing is some countries have programs in place where you where you can go to a central location and you actually can spend some time on on a device yeah in others there are some there are programs available where you can borrow a laptop or you can you know so there are ways around this and it's about some governments are putting this stuff in place the other thing some countries are actually really connected much more connected than we are in australia for instance i was surprised at some of the african nations where the whole of the country will be connected has connectivity and that connectivity is frayed of the citizenry so that's a very different situations
Daniel Franco:brilliant story sorry thank you for sharing that i really interested in again your role in security we had a networking event not long ago where you spoke at very well i must say the interests of me well it's a really great conversation in the room the interest for me moving away from the She Leads Tech bit more now into business and i guess COVID is playing a really big part in in the security measures and everything's going online so therefore things around things are getting attacked from all angles what what role are you playing within the silver chain group at the moment in that and what is your advice for people in security i guess it doesn't seem to me like everyone's taking this seriously as they should be
Jo Stewart-Rattray:i think you're right i think there is some a bit of complacency in some instances i have to say that we have we have at silver china have certainly seen an uptick in phishing scams for instance but not to the degree that we see in in other in other organizations or indeed in other places you know the US there Statistics saying that the the uptick in phishing scams have been up to 350%. During COVID
Daniel Franco:just explain phishing scams?
Jo Stewart-Rattray:Alright, so a phishing scam is an email scam, essentially it usually click on this link, or else if you don't click on this link and give me a gift, give your details and it might well be your credential. If
Daniel Franco:you click on the link. And there they're not asking for detail is a
Jo Stewart-Rattray:fact that you've clicked on the link verifies the email address just for a start. Okay. Yep.
Daniel Franco:So and then and then, is there an opportunity if it takes you to a website that that website,
Jo Stewart-Rattray:if you click on the link up quite often, one of the classic scams is is from a bank looks like it's from a bank. And the bank is saying, if you don't do this, right now, your accounts are going to be locked. And so you know, people panic and go, Yeah, fine. I'm going to do that right now. And so they give all the detail of their account details for that. So So what the bad guys will do is then take that and and it's it because it's you know, it's a it's a phony website. So they've got all of your information. Yeah. So they can change all kinds of details. And all of a sudden, they're taking out loans in your name, writing up credit card bills, all sorts of things.
Daniel Franco:It's amazing, because I like if I guess where my questions coming from is, most people these days, understand that you don't put your banking details are same. Okay, you shaking your head is me most people. Alright, so I don't put my details in. I'll just say that. Okay.
Jo Stewart-Rattray:Also not click on the link. And if you thought that there's a possibility, you'd probably pick up the phone or ring your bank?
Daniel Franco:I don't know, I won't even if it's a bank thing, I won't even I know my bank, the way they the way their emails are structured. I guess it's more about if someone sends me a link. And I go, Oh, what's this? And I click on and I go, No, hang on. This doesn't look right. And that's it. I can't do that. What
Jo Stewart-Rattray:you've probably done though, is you could well have verified your email address is correct. And then
Daniel Franco:Okay, so there's no real site security breach there. They
Jo Stewart-Rattray:No, but what I would? Well, it could lead to one, but it depends. Yeah. Seriously, the most risky, we call it I call it risky click behavior. So that's risky click behavior. Don't click on it. If you think there is a real link, typing, just type it into your browser and see what happens, right? You know, if you look if you hover your mouse over some of the emails, so you hover your mouse to see what the address actually is. And it's usually just there'll be something that's slightly different. And then we'll get into why. Because the why an email is structured some of these bad guys and are really good. I can email look like it comes from your bank.
Daniel Franco:Well, I think, was it Gabriella or Fiona was one of our team members received an email from me asking for, hey, just Can you pay this bill or something like that? Right. And it? Yeah, and unless you hovered over the actual email address or looked at it properly, then you would have?
Jo Stewart-Rattray:Yeah, and that's, that's called a whining scam, because it looked like it was coming from you. The other thing is, with whaling is that they will actually target CEOs or CEOs, or, you know, so
Daniel Franco:it's a scary world. So I guess the, as a, as a leader, you know, of a business. What is, what was that role, like, if you can talk about from a director level, yes, there is a role to protect and the data and the people, the what some low hanging fruit that people should categorically be doing. And not
Jo Stewart-Rattray:educate, educate, educate, communicate, communicate, communicate. Really, it's to me, one of the things that I'm trying to do at silver chain is bring about a security first approach where people begin to think about security. Because you know, when you when you look at that organization, there are three and a half 1000, clinical road warriors out there looking after 109 and a half 1000 of our clients. So, security is not the first thing on their minds, in a care of their of their clients is. So one of the things that we talk about is think about the security implications if you lose your tablet, or if or if you you're compromised, start lost or stolen, that device is lost or stolen. So I'm trying to bring about that change of a security first approach. And if you think something's dodgy report it straightaway, if you think if you're not sure whether you should be sending something via a particular means, ring us or email us ask us the question. I'd much rather have 30 questions and only one of them be you know, a real problem. Yeah. Then not being asked at all. I was having 30 problems. so it's about getting that security mindset in and particularly when we're looking at the technology side of things you know transformation where there's lots of new platform stuff coming in and applications coming in security has to be considered from the get go it can't be something that's brought in retrospectively without a caustic being ineffective and costing a lot of money to do so right from ideation through to implementation and beyond to maintenance security has to be in that lifecycle so that's another thing that i'm trying to bring into into the thinking
Daniel Franco:so as a CSO Chief Security Officer you you walk through the door of a business and what's generally the first thing you start with what you look at
Jo Stewart-Rattray:one of the things i like to know is what reviews have been done recently or if we need to look at a gap analysis as to where we are against best better practice really good to understand where you are toe in the sand otherwise it's all guesswork right now the CSO prior to me had had some really good work done so it was about taking that work and ensuring that we acted upon that work and remediated any of the findings so it's a real that's a really important thing to do
Daniel Franco:so gap analysis is critical you need to say this
Jo Stewart-Rattray:gap analysis, probability assessment is where we are this is all of that stuff is really important and it has to be on a rolling cycle then you can determine where you're up to. Before of the other things too is to understand what tool set you have in place i think silver chain has been has has a fairly sophisticated set of tools in place which is really helpful but it like every other organization you need to understand what that looks like do i have all the tools that i need do i have too many tools do i have tools that are overlapping do i have tools that are not properly configured so that's another question as a cso you need to ask yourself as well so that's not a short process that's something that you need to do again a rolling process over time to determine what you've got how you can better use it or indeed how you can use it at all you'd be surprised a number of organizations that i've gone into that they've got fed fantastic tools literally sitting on a shelf with a header implemented
Daniel Franco:yeah now we we work in change management we see a lot of that i for a small business perspective you know we corporates says there's money a lot of money that gets spent into IT and invested i should say invested into IT from a small business perspective and you mentioned that before when you said there are companies that come in and we don't can't really afford someone to look after their IT department until they realize that actually we should be putting money into the smaller business world what's the basic things that we could be doing i guess is it as simple as you know we went to that fortinet function is it as simple as connecting with fortinet and saying can you implement some stuff or is it yeah i'm i don't know what
Jo Stewart-Rattray:it's about understanding what you have in place, how it's being used, how you can secure yourself as well as possible it's about being practical so if
Daniel Franco:you're using just a microsoft 365 is that enough security or do we need to add more layers on top of that yes okay so what does that look like
Jo Stewart-Rattray:well again depending on the kind of organization that you are as to as to the security design that you will look to have but one of the things that you need to make sure you do is think about the information that you're protecting if that information would if there would be potential harm to the individuals involved if that was leaked then you've got a real issue or if there's information that you hold that you really don't want to see on the front page of of the australian or on the breaking news on the ABC app then you need to look at how you're going to secure that and you need to secure in a way that is commensurate with the value of that information right so if you've only got 10 bucks worth of data you're not gonna spend 1000 bucks yeah
Daniel Franco:no i guess that's crazy correct i think it's my point specially for small businesses for small how much do you invest it's about what do you
Jo Stewart-Rattray:how much does it mean to you if this is compromised
Daniel Franco:if this has come from what's your data worth yeah basic meaning
Jo Stewart-Rattray:is if if your answer is my business would go under because don't forget there's not just the the financial issue ran reputation but there's exactly right there's the reputational damage and some organizations never come back from that so if that's your answer my business would go under then you do need to do something about securing it and if you are not in a position to to know what that is yourself find an organization that will assist you to do that and there are plenty of professional services firms smaller smaller professional services firms that specialize in small and medium enterprise so they're the people that you go talk to and let them have a look at it for you and let them make some recommendations for you
Daniel Franco:that's a good place to start when what is the obligation to leaders to protect that data I guess
Jo Stewart-Rattray:well corporations act and i think it's sections 181 81 of the act actually say that severe neglect you are you know you are in you are in deep duty yeah if you are seen to be in severe neglect and severe neglect will also include security right so you don't want to lose your house if you're a director you don't always you have no you know you don't so so you want to make sure that you you do protect so you do you do have and you know the other thing too is people are often not aware that senior members of staff who may not be owners are also can be held liable as well under legislation so depending on where you are so you know we all have that duty of care it is a duty of care so to me the duty of care starts also with educating both at the top of the tree all the way through the organizational tree and and by letting people understand that what you're asking them to do at work actually has a flow on to their home life as well you have to give them a bit of a what's in it for me yeah even at the top of the trip what's in it for me well this is how you can actually make your online transactions for whatever that might be you know purchases in a more secure manner
Daniel Franco:yeah that sort of stuff is two factor authentication is that sort of the multi factor authentication is that the answer
Jo Stewart-Rattray:it's part of the answer it can still you know multi factor is not the be all and end all nothing is 100% secure
Daniel Franco:so how do you get when you've got if you can just sign in with an email and a password most people are pretty used to that scenario right you start adding multi factor authentication easy it is easy but if you there's some
Jo Stewart-Rattray:there are there are a couple of ways of doing it some of the you register your users with a particular authority for authentication and once that's registered there will be part of the single sign on factor for everything that they do okay
Daniel Franco:yes
Jo Stewart-Rattray:or the other thing that will do is it will just ask you to verify and there's just a little app on your phone that you just go oh hang on i have to look at that for brm advisory or for Synergy IQ i just have to quickly have a look at that and it will give you six numbers and he just quickly put them in
Daniel Franco:yes so i've worked with someone before that refused to download that app
Jo Stewart-Rattray:well you know you can actually make that a stackable offense
Daniel Franco:i guess that's where i'm going with it is how serious is security that it becomes mandatory
Jo Stewart-Rattray:if you have if you have the right policies in place and people have to sign on to those policies and information security policy and and an acceptable use policy would be the absolute minimum and people have to sign off on it that they agree to abide by those policies and if they don't agree to abide by those policies well it's not the right thing they don't have any exit
Daniel Franco:the argument for this person was this is my personal phone therefore i don't want work apps and stuff on my phone so
Jo Stewart-Rattray:that is a difficult situation depends on whether you have a bring your own device policy
Daniel Franco:yes well that's true
Jo Stewart-Rattray:in which case if you have a bring your own device policy you can do things like you can have applications on mobile device management applications on there that will divide the phone into personal and work and so the work side could be could be wiped remotely if that phone has been compromised compromised however there are other other mobile device management tools that will just wipe the whole lot and so again the person has to sign off on that saying yeah i'm happy yeah correct so but you can you can there are a range of things that you can do the mobile device or sorry the the bring your own device the discussion is six of one half a dozen of the other really depending on the organization as to whether you want to go down the path of corporate phones and then there is no argument or whether you you persevere and put a strong policy in place that very clearly tells people what the right roles and responsibilities are in relation to those devices
Daniel Franco:it's really good advice the role of a cso is you normally see cto cio is the role of a cso something that we're seeing arising
Jo Stewart-Rattray:it's been around for a long time yeah sometimes also referred to as a silo chief information security officer
Daniel Franco:yeah
Jo Stewart-Rattray:yeah so that one it's been around for audit eyes since the naughties yep so it's not a new role i think what we're seeing is we're seeing a change in in the cio role as well we're seeing it really that's really about information these days so that's that's there's been a change how it's about that roll is where does that begin and end if we're talking about they're looking at or a cto we're looking at devices where does that end the ceo has got a pacemaker which is a hackable device is the cio or cto responsible for that or is the csi responsible for that well i'm gonna say no it's not my role but you know seriously we do have to think about it if i look at look at some organizations they'll have things like internet connected refrigerators
Unknown:yeah
Jo Stewart-Rattray:right well there you go also organisations like soup chain have those kind because they'll be have vaccines and medications with them so all of a sudden you know you're looking at the internet of things and how do we how do we secure that yeah you know so there's all of those discussions that have to take place so you actually have to ensure that you do put a parameter in place for the role otherwise all of a sudden you're looking at a whole range of different things because these days information security or cyber security is definitely converging with physical security you know i have responsibility for cc tv the security they are off not the placement they're off that's that specific responsibility but it's definitely the security of them as my responsibility intercom systems how ranger stuff like that that all would never have been in the bailiwick of the csi user sorry i should be attempting
Daniel Franco:to fit the bill well the i've heard recent stories of businesses being held ransom is that something that you're seeing more of today to their daughter and get locked out of their systems and
Jo Stewart-Rattray:about the same as it used to be there has been there was you know five years i suppose we've seen a lot of that going on i haven't seen big spikes recently but it's you know comes in waves prior to that we were still seeing organizations being held to ransom but in different ways yes wasn't wasn't this way it was with human beings who were dissatisfied and there were some very famous cases about that and how they still held the organization to ransom city of san francisco was was at one point was held to ransom by a very disgruntled system administrator the william bar water i think it was a little above water was some years ago again by a very disgruntled individual who ended up violating some wastewater into the drinking water system you know all sorts of that there's all kinds of ways that it's been done over a long period of time
Daniel Franco:i went to a function probably two or three weeks ago now it was a roomful of cios in who we're discussing the future of technology and what that looks like and how technology is now becoming more integrated with the consumer than ever what role does a person like yourself play in protecting the consumers data versus the internal people like whereas is there a fine line or is it it's the whole sort of pace
Jo Stewart-Rattray:there's a great quote from alvin toffler something along the lines of is there any difference or is there any difference between between technology and magic and we're getting to that point it's a very old quote that quote the 70s i think it's we're getting to that point again i have to ask the question are the consumers my concern or is it my organisation that's the concern it depends on the organization right
Daniel Franco:well i guess that's my point is that you've let's use a south australian water SA water as an example who have pretty much everyone in the state on their books they've got all their banking details personal details addresses everything like that phone numbers
Jo Stewart-Rattray:they have a duty of care by the moment that you hold that kind of information you have a duty of care
Daniel Franco:yes
Jo Stewart-Rattray:absolutely you do because if you can't if you if that is compromised in any way shape or form you're on the front page of not just the breaking news and the ABC app right
Daniel Franco:agreed so like my question around that is where's the where's the fine line between internal data and external data and or is there a line,
Jo Stewart-Rattray:I think what's happened is we used to be really concerned about protecting our perimeter, right? And the perimeter was very, very clear. And you know, we're talking about firewalls, and we're talking, yeah, all kinds of things, to protect our perimeter, what we are talking about now is not protecting the perimeter, but protecting the data for which we are responsible. So that's, that's what we need to do. Right. And so, absolutely, that kind of data we are responsible for. And the moment that you hold, for instance, a credit card, credit card details, you're subject to the payment card industry, data security standards, which is a whole other world of, I was gonna say pain, that's probably unfair. But there are a whole other range of controls that you suddenly have to be mindful of as well. So I say was not going to get away with that. But if I were a small organized, so I would try not to hold that data. Because the moment I hold it, I'm responsible for it. So that's easy. If I'm trying to get payment, if I've got a Square Reader, even if you're a very small company to go to square reader. And that goes straight through, I'm not holding any credit card data, I'm just flicking that straight through to the bank. That's the best way to do it. Or you have some payment gateway that you
Daniel Franco:Yeah, so I guess that's where I was leaning in to flow into was a small business. So you read my mind is that they are a small business of selling products. Yep, t shirts, whatever my thing, who have people's credit card details, as well, they just use an app. Is that good enough? Is that
Jo Stewart-Rattray:well, using something like any of those small business devices? What choice do you have? The only other choice you have is to do it manually, then you're holding the data, become responsible for the data.
Daniel Franco:So who's then responsible for that data?
Jo Stewart-Rattray:You're not touching the data? You're the card? That's going straight through the
Daniel Franco:Paypals of the world? They're the ones responsible for that data? Or is it the small business?
Jo Stewart-Rattray:That's not the small business, not the Small Business, it's the payment gateways?
Daniel Franco:So you're entrustingthat they are doing everything they need to do to make hub site
Jo Stewart-Rattray:paypal has been breached on a number of occassions
Daniel Franco:I know, yeah, I guess that's the point. And there are all these other new up and coming apps coming out. And you think, which there's a lot, there's a lot of,
Jo Stewart-Rattray:again, it's you need to have a look at it. And a small business is going to be really concerned about how much it costs them as well. Some of them, some of them through directly through the bank, there's there's quite a charge on that. So some of the others that might be about 1.5 1.9% will be a charge Now, can you can can your business afford that? Do they need to put up their cost in order to do that? Can they recoup the 1.5 1.9? You know, there's all those discussions have to go on for small business to determine how they best deal with it again, when in doubt, talk to somebody who, who that's their game. Yes, what they do professionally,
Daniel Franco:say, consultant.
Jo Stewart-Rattray:I would say a consultant.
Daniel Franco:We are consultants. So that's why. So we're coming, I think, to the end of the show, so thank you. It's really amazing. hearing your story. What what's what's next for you right now?
Jo Stewart-Rattray:to continue to make a difference? I don't think because, you know, I had the big, life changing experience in 2018. And then again, in 2019, that's not the end. COVID did put a little bit of a bump in the road, I have to say, you know, I usually do, I usually do between eight and 11 International journeys a year. And this year, I've done one, yeah. Which was early in the year to Canada, but I so yeah, COVID has put a bump in the road, but it's not going to stop me I still want to make a difference for women and girls, I certainly wanna make a difference for women in the in the technology workforce, and also for rural women as well. Rural bridge regional and remote women absolutely, still want to make a difference there. And I'm and to that end, you know, I'm on the board of directors of the National Rural women's coalition. I sit on a an advisory group to one of the ministers for communications in relation to alternative voice technologies in the in the bush. So, you know, I'm small ways still trying to make the background. Yeah, exactly.
Daniel Franco:And we thank you for it. My pleasure. Right. Now, as part of our wrap up to the show, I like to ask just a few quickfire questions which puts you on the spot of it. We are very we're wisdom is one of our values at Synergy IQ. So therefore, we read lots where with we always seek knowledge What's one of your favorite books? If not, if not, what's a book that you may have recommended for people? To to learn? Something that you gain a lot of info?
Jo Stewart-Rattray:Oh, I've got a couple. Actually, Daring to Drive by Manal al Sharif was one interesting book about a Saudi woman who did literally dare to drive and she was charged by the police with driving whilst being female. Yeah, great read. Right. My husband began to read it. And he got really angry and couldn't finish it. Yeah. But it's, for me, it was it was really eye opening and quite confronting, so I yeah, I amazing. Another one would be Hard Choices by Hillary Clinton, which was about her time as Secretary of State. She has some really interesting things to say about no matter what was coming out of her mouth, often there were that it was the scrunchie debate whether she had a scrunchie in her. Yeah, so that's really interesting. And the other book that I've, I've just finished is becoming by Michelle Obama.
Daniel Franco:Yeah, I've heard really.
Jo Stewart-Rattray:So. There's three books that I've read recently that I really, really, really recommend. They're great books.
Daniel Franco:Beautiful. What's one piece of advice that you were given? That stuck with you?
Jo Stewart-Rattray:It's my motto. And that's dream big. dream big and believe. Believe in yourself, because you can do it.
Daniel Franco:Brilliant, great message. So be quirky question. Now, if you had a time machine, and you could travel anywhere, to any time, where would you go?
Jo Stewart-Rattray:Oh, gosh. I'd go back to earlier in my life. And there's one of two things I would do, I would either become a un peacekeeper, because female peacekeepers make a difference in in areas of conflict, huge difference. Or I would have become involved in international engagement become a diplomat.
Daniel Franco:Brillant. If you had one superpower. Now you already have one for the work that you're doing. But I guess if you had one Marvel type superpower. What is that?
Jo Stewart-Rattray:I just want the cape I want. I want the cape and I want that, that cape to be able to wrap around young girls and women, young women and give them the Equal Opportunity they deserve.
Daniel Franco:Brilliant. And just to finish off one of my favorites. Do you have a dad joke? Like a really corny joke.
Jo Stewart-Rattray:I told a joke. They accuse me of having a mum joke. It no my husband and I leave my husband with the dad jokes are so terrible. He's got this whole range of duck jokes.
Daniel Franco:Give me one of those. I'm a duck joke.
Jo Stewart-Rattray:No.
Daniel Franco:I've got a few up my sleeve
Jo Stewart-Rattray:tacos. No, I can't remember. so terrible. I don't know I'm not gonna
Daniel Franco:talk too terrible you get him to call me
Jo Stewart-Rattray:is that they always seem to start off with the Draco's in a bar. Yeah, remember?
Daniel Franco:Yeah, that's it. That's it. So nothing else. No other jokes? Nothing.
Jo Stewart-Rattray:No, I don't do jokes very well. I only ever I always remember the punchline, but not the joke.
Daniel Franco:Yeah, yeah. Yep. So you're the one that spoils the joke that
Jo Stewart-Rattray:I try not to. Yeah. And somebody we get halfway through the dragon guy. And people look at me. He's like, Oh, she's gonna do it again. Yes. I've learned I have learned. Yes.
Daniel Franco:Brilliant. Thank you very much for your time today. It's been enlightening. I'm absolutely positive that whoever's listening to this, they will take a lot away. Really, really appreciate your time. Where can we find you? What's linking with me? LinkedIn? Yeah,
Jo Stewart-Rattray:I'm on LinkedIn. I'm all over LinkedIn. So
Daniel Franco:Joe Stewart Rattray, you've got a website too, or you got the br br advisory
Jo Stewart-Rattray:advisory.com.au or as I say, go to LinkedIn. You'll find me. Brilliant.
Daniel Franco:Thank you very much.
Jo Stewart-Rattray:Thank you. Bye, bye.
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