#118 David Panter, CEO of Minda Incorporated on Embracing True Self, Leading with Purpose

We're kicking off with a new episode this year as we sit down with David Panter, the inspiring CEO of Minda Incorporated, for an intimate conversation that promises to uplift, motivate, and transform your perspective on leadership and personal growth.

David takes us through his remarkable life story, sharing the highs and lows, the moments of doubt, and the triumphs of courage that have defined his path. 

From standing firm in his identity in an unaccepting era to spearheading transformative change in healthcare and aged care sectors,  David's story is a testament to the power of leading with authenticity and purpose.

Why Listen?

• Discover the courage it takes to stand firm in one's identity against the odds.
• Uncover the insights and strategies behind leading large-scale organizational change.
• Get inspired by David's commitment to transforming the healthcare and aged care sectors for the better.

Ready to see how embracing your true self can transform your approach to leadership? Then you absolutely need to tune into this episode.

TIMESTAMP:

[00:16:59:19] - David's Role as an AIDS Information Officer

[00:22:02:15] - Princess Diana's Involvement in AIDS Activism

[00:39:01:06] - Being Called In to Fix and Transform Organizations

[00:42:57:02] - The Importance of Authenticity and Being True to Oneself as a Leader.

[00:53:03:05] - State of Minda When David Panter Took on the Role of CEO

[01:39:27:05] - Advice for Emerging Leaders

Where to find David Panter

• LinkedIn
• Facebook

Join the conversation on Synergy IQ on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram (@synergyiq).

Access SynergyIQ Website to get to know more about us. 

Say hello to our host Daniel Franco on LinkedIn.

Transcript

00:00:10:01 - 00:00:18:03
Daniel Franco
Welcome back to the Creating Synergy Podcast. Today we have the wonderful man, Mr. David Panter, on the show. Welcome.

00:00:18:04 - 00:00:19:06
David Panter
Glad to be here.

00:00:19:08 - 00:00:48:13
Daniel Franco
So, David, you're the current CEO of the MINDA group, the former CEO of the ECH Group and the former CEO of Centra Adelaide Local Health Network, plus many, many more CEO roles, prestigious CEO roles here in South Australia and over in the UK. Welcome to the show and what do we need to know about your earliest contacts to understand the person who's sitting in front of us today?

00:00:48:14 - 00:01:14:14
David Panter
I think probably the most important thing is that two elements. One is that I come from a very traditional working class family in the UK from the middle of England. My dad was a lorry driver. I was the first one in my family to have the opportunity to go to university. And so that singled me out within the family.

00:01:14:14 - 00:01:42:01
David Panter
But also I came out as being gay at about 15 in the early 1970s in the UK. And so that also probably sort of defined my early years, but the two together in terms of my identity around being gay, but also coming from that working class background and a strong my dad was a strong trade unionist and so most of my core values I think I inherited and learned from him.

00:01:42:03 - 00:01:51:21
Daniel Franco
So what were they? I mean, one of my questions here actually is, you know, describe your parents to me and let us understand a little bit more about them and who they were and how they raised you.

00:01:51:23 - 00:02:25:01
David Panter
Yeah. Again, it's one of those interesting things that when I came to Australia 20 years ago, it took me a long time to understand some of the politics and particularly around the Australian Labor Party because it just felt very different to my understanding. I've never been a member of a political party, but certainly my dad was a strong trade unionist and was a shop steward in a trade union and very aligned with Labor and always voted Labor in the UK and in the UK.

00:02:25:01 - 00:02:40:08
David Panter
That Labor tradition and certainly for my dad came out of more of the sort of non conform Methodist approach. Whereas what I discovered here is a much stronger affiliation between labor and Catholicism.

00:02:40:09 - 00:02:41:04
Daniel Franco
Yeah, yeah.

00:02:41:04 - 00:03:14:18
David Panter
And in Australia. And so there's that. So for me, those nonconformist Methodist values of being community focused, not having a lot of pomp and circumstance, it's a very plain religion and very plain chapel approach and none of the mystifying stuff. So basically the good values of belief in people and belief in in community and doing right by others, doing to others, as you would have done to yourself.

00:03:14:20 - 00:03:39:20
David Panter
When I told my parents that I was gay and I said this was in the mid-seventies, so only a few years after, I mean, homosexuality wasn't legalized in the UK to 1969, so it was only a few years after that. The reaction from my parents was given their background, given the Times, was quite amazing. And my mother said, yes, I know all about that.

00:03:39:20 - 00:03:56:10
David Panter
It's so much to do with the genes. And my father's response was, Well, it must be your side of the family because I'm from good breeding stock. And that was it, was it that was done and dusted. There was no other issues. I wasn't how I was about sort of 16, 15, 16.

00:03:56:10 - 00:04:12:02
Daniel Franco
Yeah. How difficult was that for you given especially I mean, in the seventies and I do know later that Thatcher had she come out and put some laws against that. Tell us about that whole decision of coming out and how that was for you at that time.

00:04:12:04 - 00:04:39:12
David Panter
I mean, at the time it was didn't I didn't feel it to be traumatic at all. And again, I had I have a strong belief that you develop a frame of reference or a way of operating. And ideally that can transfer from one scenario to another. And so I was as a young child up until the age of five, I was underweight.

00:04:39:14 - 00:04:55:11
David Panter
And then after five I became very overweight and was through most of my childhood. So I developed a resilience, if you like, to being called a fatty. And so then to be being called a puff didn't really make much difference. And I.

00:04:55:11 - 00:04:55:24
Daniel Franco
Look back.

00:04:56:02 - 00:05:32:19
David Panter
And I was a strong personality. You know, again, to give you some context, I went to a sort of classic UK comprehensive school. There were 15 just under 1500 kids in the school. I was the only one that identified as being gay. One of my friends, Ronnie, was the only Afro-Caribbean and yeah, all of that. So it sort of there was a gang of us that were actually felt a bit like outsiders, but took comfort and support from each other.

00:05:32:21 - 00:05:59:11
David Panter
And when I look back on it now, I just think it was an amazing experience and it was one point where I did get quite low and it did impact on my sort of academic activity, and that got noticed by teachers and the headteacher of the school. Mr. Zambello invited me into the office and he knew that I'd come out as being gay.

00:05:59:13 - 00:06:14:10
David Panter
And he just said, Look, David, it does not matter what you, in his words, what you do in bed with somebody. You're a person first, and that's all that we're interested in is to make sure that you're the best person you can be. And again, to have got that response.

00:06:14:10 - 00:06:15:02
Daniel Franco
Yeah.

00:06:15:04 - 00:06:39:16
David Panter
In that age, it was just amazing. Yeah. And just about ready because a year or so later when I was going down the path potentially of going into nursing, I was working as a nursing assistant in the local hospital and Mr. Ambler came off his motorbike and spent a few weeks in the ward. I was working there. I had to rub cream on his bottom Most days.

00:06:39:18 - 00:06:45:09
Daniel Franco
So we had, well, at least you, you took care. I mean, because he could have gone down another path, you know, which might have.

00:06:45:14 - 00:07:12:24
David Panter
Absolutely. And I you know, it's I was so oblivious to everything that was going on and what the upset it might be for other people. And it was only when I went back to a school union, probably when I was around that 30 and some of the teachers that I was very close to. Of course, by then I realized that actually there were only a few years older than me because they were in their first teaching jobs, 22 year olds.

00:07:13:01 - 00:07:21:18
David Panter
And and they then shared with me at that reunion how agonized they were because they'd never experienced somebody coming out and they just didn't know what to do.

00:07:21:21 - 00:07:22:05
Daniel Franco
Yeah.

00:07:22:05 - 00:07:35:17
David Panter
And so again, I was oblivious to all of that. But together they created an amazing environment along with my sort of home environment. So I don't feel that it was a particularly traumatic experience for me.

00:07:35:23 - 00:07:59:01
Daniel Franco
Yeah, fabulous. Did did you? And when we were talking off of air, we were talking about loneliness, right? And we won't go into the subject that we're talking about there. But the did you feel because you were you said out of the 1500 students, you were the only one that came out and said that you're gay. Did you feel a sense of loneliness not being able to share and connect with anyone else in that way?

00:07:59:01 - 00:08:28:00
David Panter
Or no, because that's because I think that there was a number of us who, for different reasons, felt as outsider us. And so we had our own gang, if you like. And it was, you know, and I, you know, I think I did develop that sense of robustness in my personality, in my approach, what I was prepared to give ground on, what I wasn't prepared to in terms of my values.

00:08:28:02 - 00:08:54:06
David Panter
And people responded incredibly positive. You know, I can remember going to the school social club on a Thursday evening and literally going up to some of the people who I can be friends, but I wasn't very close to who were the, you know, the classic high school jocks and the soccer team, that sort of thing. And I would say, you should kiss me.

00:08:54:08 - 00:09:13:05
David Panter
And they did. I mean, I mean, not in a passionate way, but they weren't they didn't react to it in an adverse way. And so, I mean, I just and I think that was part of just the presence I had. Yeah. I was in some ways a very typical young gay boy in that I was into amateur dramatics.

00:09:13:05 - 00:09:15:24
David Panter
Yeah, I was always in the school play. Yeah. Which is.

00:09:15:24 - 00:09:36:04
Daniel Franco
Very endearing. Right. And people like being around people with a charismatic and. Yeah. So that Yeah, that's great. Did do you later on I think it was in the 1980s was the eighties when Margaret Thatcher came out. Yep. And changed the law Is that correct. So how did how did that affect you in any way.

00:09:36:06 - 00:10:00:12
David Panter
Well I think that again, from it from the my days of coming out in the late in the sort of mid seventies and then was felt had always been very sort of active politically in that sense around sort of campaigning and when I went to university that carried on when I was at university, that's when things like the miners strike in the UK was happening.

00:10:00:12 - 00:10:25:17
David Panter
There is a very good film people might have seen called Pride, which is about how the gay community in London rallied around the miners and collected donations and then actually went to a Welsh village to hand over the donated money to support them. And the culture clash there. And and it was amazing film to watch because that felt very much like my experience at the time.

00:10:25:17 - 00:10:51:16
David Panter
I was part of the group that was raising funds for the miners and so was very sort of anti Thatcher. Yeah. And so later on when she brought in the the laws to prevent homosexuality being promoted in schools or by any sort of government body, then yes, it was awful, but there was significant action in the community to try and actually deal with that.

00:10:51:16 - 00:11:19:08
David Panter
And respond to that in various ways. And so that sort of political activism, because you can't divorce that from the arrival in the early eighties of HIV and AIDS, you know, and all of the impact that that had on the the gay male community in particular. And and my early career was founded in that world. So that was my very first job in the health service.

00:11:19:08 - 00:11:21:00
David Panter
I was working in HIV and AIDS.

00:11:21:05 - 00:11:37:18
Daniel Franco
Because that's what you said. You said you sort of in a previous conversation, you've said to me that you sort of just ended up in the health care. Can you talk us through how that came about? And obviously had a, you know, a substantial input into the early part of the HIV AIDS piece in the UK?

00:11:37:20 - 00:12:03:16
David Panter
So, I mean, when as I said earlier on, I wasn't doing great academically, I was concerned about therefore what I was going to do. I had applied to university to do a degree in experimental psychology, didn't think I was going to get the grades and lined up back up to go and do nursing and again, this was the late seventies, so men in nursing wasn't that common.

00:12:03:18 - 00:12:22:00
David Panter
And the matron who interviewed me at the time for that degree program in nursing, one of the first in the UK, insisted that I go and get some practical experience because they were concerned about whether I'd actually want to wash people's hair and do a manual. So that's how I ended up in the hospital at the local hospital.

00:12:22:05 - 00:12:44:07
David Panter
Had that interaction with my previous head teacher and anyway, I managed, I didn't get the grades for the psychology, but Sussex University rang me up and said, You interviewed really well, we'd still like to offer you the position. Great. I do that and then I can go do nursing afterwards. Did my undergraduate degree did reasonably well, People said You should do a PhD.

00:12:44:09 - 00:13:09:00
David Panter
I said, Well, okay, I'll do a Ph.D. and then I'll go to the nursing and the Ph.D. It was when again, Thatcher, who was very had very strong views that society didn't exist and community didn't matter. It was all about individuals. And that took she that became real for her in terms of abolishing. At the time I was applying for a Ph.D., all of the research money for the social sciences.

00:13:09:02 - 00:13:37:24
David Panter
And so virtually no no university in the UK had actually funds for psychology PhDs. One of the few organizations that did was the Open University and the Open University. The original in the UK very different to the one here in Australia. It's all pre-Internet and the Open University is like a is a real academic institution. It has a campus in Milton Keynes in the middle of England.

00:13:38:01 - 00:14:04:06
David Panter
And the only difference between that and other universities is that that campus doesn't have lecture theaters because all of the teaching was done through distance teaching, through the mail. Yeah, but also as part of the university was the BBC, the British Broadcasting Company. And so we had students because what the way they taught was by making television programs and radio programs that went out in the middle of the night when there was nothing else on television.

00:14:04:06 - 00:14:28:00
David Panter
Yeah, right. And the mature students then used to study by that they had their own money. They gave me a PhD scholarship. And so I went into my Ph.D. there. And that meant that as a bit more traditional PhD students, you're expected to teach. But at the university that was about making television programs. Radio programs, yeah, distance teaching of mature students, running summer schools, those sorts of things.

00:14:28:02 - 00:14:48:00
David Panter
So I got a whole skill set that when I finished my degree and then thinking about what next, I was offered the opportunity to stay in academia, but there was no research money. Yeah, and particularly as my Ph.D. was in child social relations and gender development and was not going to be something that was going to attract funding.

00:14:48:02 - 00:15:18:08
David Panter
And so it just so happened that that's when the NHS and it was one part of the NHS in London that advertised a position for what was called an AIDS information officer, first job of its kind in the National Health Service in the UK. And I managed to get it. And despite the fact that again, to give you context, this was the era of the new romantic music movement, the sort of the early days of culture Club Boy George Yeah, yeah.

00:15:18:10 - 00:15:35:10
David Panter
So at the time my hair was quite long, curly with lots of rags braided into it. I used to wear black tights and a tartan miniskirt. The guy and Dr. Martin boots. Yeah, Yeah. Which I went to interview like that to.

00:15:35:10 - 00:15:37:12
Daniel Franco
Come back to Doc Martin. Right.

00:15:37:14 - 00:16:08:21
David Panter
And this amazing woman, Dr. Leila Lesser, who unfortunately died a few months ago, gave me the job. And so that job was about working with gay men and injecting drug users around the streets of London. On trying to a enable them to prevent becoming infected. But if they did become infected, how to then handle that? And that's how I got sucked into the health system because I very quickly then moved on from that role to creating services.

00:16:08:23 - 00:16:18:11
David Panter
And so I was part of the group that created the first inpatient service around HIV and AIDS at St Mary's Hospital in London.

00:16:18:13 - 00:16:20:15
Daniel Franco
How so are you? Are you a doctor then?

00:16:20:19 - 00:16:37:11
David Panter
Doctor So I am, yes. So I've got a date. I'm technically Dr. David Paynter. I never used the title until I came to Australia, and then when I worked for, I started working as a health. Everybody insists that I had to use the title because whereas in the NHS I never used it.

00:16:37:17 - 00:16:43:02
Daniel Franco
Because in all the articles nothing ever refers to them. And part of it I get a lot of articles written about you.

00:16:43:04 - 00:16:47:18
David Panter
So yeah, so I mean, I'm very grateful that I had the experience of getting the page.

00:16:47:20 - 00:16:48:10
Daniel Franco
Absolutely.

00:16:48:10 - 00:16:49:23
David Panter
But I don't know.

00:16:50:02 - 00:16:50:04
Daniel Franco
Who.

00:16:50:04 - 00:16:50:19
David Panter
Has the title.

00:16:50:19 - 00:17:04:20
Daniel Franco
How, how just I mean, we've seen, you know, movies. Is this kind of my only context is sort of the seventies and eighties of what happened in that time. How rife was the AIDS HIV situation at the moment? Was that in those era.

00:17:04:22 - 00:17:28:07
David Panter
It was well, it was just awful. It was the impact was completely devastating. Again, if you want to get a really good sense, because I think is the best thing I've seen in recent years, there's a drama series called It's a Sin that was is written by Russell T DAVIES, who has written lots of queer as folk and a lot of the Doctor Who revival is all down to him.

00:17:28:07 - 00:17:59:03
David Panter
And it's about a group of young gay men in the eighties arriving at university in London and then AIDS arriving. Yeah, And for me, that captured absolutely. And there's one young man in that who gets HIV becomes ill and there's some really grueling scenes of him going into hospital. And it's that classic, what I would call a Florence Nightingale ward, just the big ward with like 30 beds in 15 down.

00:17:59:03 - 00:18:07:14
David Panter
It's like he is the only person in there and the door is locked and people will only go in with huge hazmat suits on.

00:18:07:18 - 00:18:09:13
Daniel Franco
A wound that is like airborne.

00:18:09:13 - 00:18:27:14
David Panter
Exactly. And that's where he dies. And, you know, in the service I'm talking about at St Mary's, we had three of those wards. So we had 90 beds. We we didn't use hazmat suits. We'd gone beyond that. We'd got the education. And I was part of my job was to educate the staff about how best to interact with people.

00:18:27:16 - 00:19:02:01
David Panter
But we would have 90 essentially young gay men and a few injecting drug users who were just dying and the trauma around that. It was often families wouldn't accept the whole situation, that they had a son in that position. If they did, they would call it cancer, not AIDS, because cancer was more acceptable. You had partners and friends completely disowned, not allowed to go to funerals and bodies being taken away and buried elsewhere in the country in secret.

00:19:02:03 - 00:19:38:08
David Panter
It was awful. And it's the and a bit like happened in Australia. There was a big government run publicity campaign to try and enable the community to understand the impact. But it was all done in doom and gloom and again, the impact of that on the people directly affected was, again, more trauma, more traumatic, but it also created a huge amount of energy within certainly within the gay community.

00:19:38:10 - 00:20:03:20
David Panter
And things happened and things got created. And I, I think today we've got a lot to be incredibly thankful for in terms of the gay community's response to HIV and AIDS back in the eighties. So, for example. Yeah, at the time cancer was really never it was better to die of cancer than AIDS, but cancer wasn't talked about.

00:20:03:20 - 00:20:31:07
David Panter
It was always the big C Yeah, and the fact that we now talk about people living with cancer, you know, that whole notion of putting the person first. Yeah. Came out of HIV and AIDS because we insisted we started talking about people living with HIV, dying from AIDS. Yeah. And the pressure the community put on the drug sector, the pharmaceutical sector, to open up and be more transparent about the development of drugs and get them out to test sooner.

00:20:31:09 - 00:20:34:06
David Panter
And that's what we saw in the response to Cape Town.

00:20:34:07 - 00:20:34:24
Daniel Franco
Yeah.

00:20:35:01 - 00:20:38:02
David Panter
Yeah. And I just I just don't think those things would have happened if.

00:20:38:02 - 00:20:38:12
Daniel Franco
It wasn't.

00:20:38:13 - 00:20:40:05
David Panter
If it hadn't been that experience.

00:20:40:05 - 00:20:47:16
Daniel Franco
Well, sometimes you got to go through the hills to get the learnings right. The Silver Linings Atlas was able to save many lives thereafter.

00:20:47:16 - 00:21:11:07
David Panter
Yeah. So, you know, and then there were great others. I was very much involved with the thing called the London Lighthouse, which was a palliative care center set up specifically for people with with HIV and AIDS raised by some great people. I was very fortunate and privileged to be on the board of that little while, and that was something that Princess Diana was patron of.

00:21:11:13 - 00:21:33:14
David Panter
And she did. Amazingly, I'm not a royalist, you know, but I have to say, I have a special place in my heart for Princess Diana. I was fortunate to meet her a number of times, but her can relate to the AIDS activity and to the gay community. Just was stunning. Yeah. And was completely out of step with the rest of the traditional system at the time.

00:21:33:16 - 00:21:34:18
Daniel Franco
How did you go about meeting?

00:21:34:19 - 00:21:55:21
David Panter
And just because of being on the board of Lighthouse, she would come into Lighthouse completely outside of any publicity. She would just come in of an evening and just sit with somebody and sit at their bedside and chat to them. Yeah. So there was no pomp and ceremony. There was nothing. It wasn't about getting publicity. It was just how she thought she should be.

00:21:55:23 - 00:22:20:09
Daniel Franco
Someone who used to show her images. Yeah. And actually use it for good. It's just great. Tragic story in its own right. So. So tell us about then, your career and your evolution. I think I remember you saying that early in your career, you helped you worked in a place called Brighton helping people with disability. And now today you find yourself working in a place called Brighton in Adelaide helping people with disability.

00:22:20:13 - 00:22:33:05
Daniel Franco
Let's talk about your career and and I do know that you were, you know, one of the youngest CEOs at the time in in the Health Network within the UK. And I'm really interested to hear your career progression and journey.

00:22:33:07 - 00:23:02:18
David Panter
Yes. I mean, so I was at university at Sussex University, which is on the outskirts of Brighton, and I'd had that little bit experience of nursing prior to getting into university because I thought it was going to go into nursing. So when I was at university, I had to. It was a time when university education was free and I got a grant and it was, I think it was £200 a term for subsistence.

00:23:02:19 - 00:23:24:13
David Panter
Yeah, but it clearly wasn't enough. And so I had to do some work. And so I went to and there was again a reluctance to accept men at the time this was 1980 into an agency, nursing or nursing assistant. Yes, I wasn't a nurse, but I had a bit of extra help, you know, And so couldn't get any work from that.

00:23:24:15 - 00:23:49:14
David Panter
And so I thought about looking at social care and went to the Social Services Department of Brighton Council and said, Look, I've got these skills. I would really like some part time work use agency. Can we cut that out and can you just employ me? And they said, we've never done that before. But I said, You could set up your own casual pool, you don't need to use agency, and then you cut out some cost.

00:23:49:16 - 00:23:54:09
David Panter
that's a good idea. And so that's what they did. And they employed me as the first one in that pool.

00:23:54:12 - 00:23:55:00
Daniel Franco
Very good.

00:23:55:01 - 00:24:19:07
David Panter
And I was working with people with intellectual disability in a hostel. It was like a respite hospital hostel for people with intellectual disabilities. So for the three years that I was university, I was getting my paid work and supplementing income by working with people with intellectual disability. And so that's that. Then full circle, 40 odd years later and back in a place called Brighton with people with intellectual disability.

00:24:19:09 - 00:24:49:19
David Panter
And so that was my first real experience of prolonged experience around care. I've already described what happened to my Ph.D. and then I ended up in the health system and for me, and I think it goes back to the very beginning, what I was saying about my dad and my values. My focus is has always and continues to be the people that myself, the organization, is there to support.

00:24:49:21 - 00:25:00:15
David Panter
I'm not there for me. I'm not there for boards to make money. I'm not there for, you know, for that. I'm there for the actual people who need the support and believe.

00:25:00:21 - 00:25:03:14
Daniel Franco
You've always worked for purpose. LED Yeah.

00:25:03:16 - 00:25:25:03
David Panter
And it's and, and, and I like to have that direct connection. So when I got into that world of HIV and AIDS, that was very much what I brought with me and had that direct connection with people with HIV, people on the streets doing it tough and then thinking, well, how do we now service that actually is going to best meet their needs?

00:25:25:03 - 00:25:51:04
David Panter
Yeah, And and as I got a growing reputation for doing that because I said a I am a activist in a sense. So one of the other things I did as I was the first person appointed into a role like that in the NHS, but it spread quickly and within a year there was over 100 of us and I then was instrumental in creating a thing called the HIV workers Alliance.

00:25:51:06 - 00:26:23:22
David Panter
Yeah. So we started to get a bit of professionalism and consistency about how we could work together and learn from each other, right? So I was getting a reputation for being able to bring things together, design services and Thatcher comes into play again because she brought in reforms into the National Health Service and decided it should be split into two components the bit that provided the services and the commissioned services.

00:26:23:24 - 00:26:53:07
David Panter
And so I was asked then to move into that space of being a commissioner of health services. So I went to work for the health authority in the middle of London. It was the one responsible for St Mary's and that was to set up and again be part of the pilot to set up that commissioning role. And that was, I think in recognition of my experience around how to take an understanding of what people were looking for and needed.

00:26:53:12 - 00:27:03:12
David Panter
And then how do you design a service. And today a lot of that gets called co-design. Yeah, I think it was just my natural practice sort of 40 years ago.

00:27:03:14 - 00:27:04:09
Daniel Franco
To seek others.

00:27:04:09 - 00:27:43:03
David Panter
Perspective. That's right. And then look at how you enable nurses, doctors, other professionals to respond to that and create a service environment that's going to give you both as an organization and as an individual person or patient, the best outcome possible. And so had that experience of of developing that commissioning role, then moved into East London as deputy chief executive of the East London Health Service, doing that commissioning role, but also then getting into bigger enterprises around redesigning the structures.

00:27:43:05 - 00:28:07:18
David Panter
So one of the things I did there and was and again, it's important for me to understand that health in the UK at the time was very different to the public hospital system here in Australia and the politics around it because the NHS is so big, you can't. The Secretary of State for Health at a national government level doesn't get involved in the day to day running because they can't know.

00:28:07:20 - 00:28:27:20
David Panter
And so if you're running that health service, you are the face of that health service to the local public. Yeah, and all the local stakeholders, including the local MPs. And so as part of the changes that we put in place in East London was to close the emergency Department of St Barts Hospital in the city of London. Yeah.

00:28:28:00 - 00:28:31:04
David Panter
Because we should been there for 800 years.

00:28:31:04 - 00:28:31:17
Daniel Franco
Yeah. Well.

00:28:31:22 - 00:28:33:00
David Panter
And was well.

00:28:33:02 - 00:28:34:02
Daniel Franco
Well dealt with.

00:28:34:02 - 00:29:01:23
David Panter
Well it was well loved by the people in the city of London, but the city of London has very little residential population. Yeah. And the borough of Tower Hamlets next door is one of the poorest in the, in the UK. And equally had a hospital that was built in the 1700s that was falling over. And we needed to do something different and we needed to move the service and rebuild the one in Tower Hamlets.

00:29:02:00 - 00:29:20:22
David Panter
So I led the process of closing down the emergency department and the some of the community response to that was then that a one size black and white portrait posters of me went up all over the city saying, This man is trying to close all this bureaucratic trying to close your hospital.

00:29:20:22 - 00:29:21:19
Daniel Franco
How did you manage that?

00:29:21:19 - 00:29:30:12
David Panter
Well, it's just you had to do the public meetings. Yeah, I've stood on platforms and argued as to why we're making this. I've had things thrown at me. I said.

00:29:30:12 - 00:29:32:05
Daniel Franco
Did you ever feel threatened?

00:29:32:07 - 00:29:52:18
David Panter
But it was. But again, I think goes back to that my basic sort of resilience and personality is what I believe this is right. I've got the evidence that it's the right thing to do. And so we'll push on and then see what happens. And with those things again, we're not they all then end up going through a formal process, know there is a significant degree of concern from the community.

00:29:52:18 - 00:30:00:04
David Panter
It will eventually escalate up to the Secretary of State for a decision. Yeah, as that one did. And he agreed with the decision we were making.

00:30:00:06 - 00:30:26:01
Daniel Franco
So I guess there's a question around that. If you went out to these days, we call it stakeholder engagement, community stakeholder engagement, if you went out to the community and you said this is what we're planning on doing, you probably would have got a lot of no way in hell that's happening. Yeah, and but yet yet you were adamant, based on your research and data, that this was the right decision and the opportunities that you were putting forward were greater than what?

00:30:26:01 - 00:30:39:21
Daniel Franco
Yes. How did you come to managing that? That's a big change piece right there. How did you come to about managing that in a successful way towards the end where people started getting on board and and supporting what you were doing?

00:30:39:24 - 00:31:14:20
David Panter
So for me, it's about I mean, with any change process, it is communication. Communication, communication. It's about being transparent in the communication, being honest and upfront, because I think as soon as you try to pull the wool over somebody's eyes, then that undermines everything that you've built up. Absolutely. And it's then making sure that those people who in some of those more traditional systems and processes don't have a voice, how do you enable them to have a voice, not to speak for them?

00:31:14:22 - 00:31:43:23
David Panter
Because again, that is, I think, fraught with difficulty. It's enabling those people to have a place for themselves, and so enabling the people of Tower Hamlets to have a voice to say, actually, we need this. And it is then eventually gets momentum to have a bigger sway than essentially the articulate white middle class group who were trying to defend what had always been in place and didn't want to see any change.

00:31:44:00 - 00:32:10:05
David Panter
So for me, it's it's just that process of having to try and build a sense of belief and enabling those other voices to come through. Yeah, because I do believe most of us at the end of the day will listen and will put aside our own prejudices, given that opportunity.

00:32:10:05 - 00:32:10:24
Daniel Franco
Yeah, correct.

00:32:11:04 - 00:32:11:14
David Panter
You know.

00:32:11:17 - 00:32:52:08
Daniel Franco
I guess in the world of change, which is a space in which, you know, playing a lot with the business that I run in synergy accused the, the asking of the question is where we would say, you know, this is what we're going to do. We're going to go out and consult first. And the pushback that you would have got early, how did you make the decision that, no, no, no, we're going to do this first before we go out and seek advice or or share it with the community because great change management is getting people involved early, taking in their input and then, you know, utilizing their perspectives in building a scenario which works

00:32:52:08 - 00:33:04:16
Daniel Franco
for all in this case where it's health and it's a different scenario. Sometimes you can't do what the people want because we've got to save some lives here as well, especially in the case of emergency departments. How did you manage that scenario?

00:33:04:18 - 00:33:30:19
David Panter
So again, I think you've got to have a very good map, if you like, of what the various stakeholders are and the levels of the process you need to go through. So again, I don't want to give people a sense that I'm some sort of maverick that just isn't you know, as somebody who was I was at that stage is sort of deputy chief executive, the East London and City Health Authority.

00:33:30:21 - 00:34:05:07
David Panter
I reported to a chief exec and a board that was appointed by the Secretary of State for health, and there was a chair to that board, and they were the ones who actually needed to make decisions. My job was to feed them with the information to be able to make what hopefully was the right decision. Yeah. And so in this particular process, they're the ones who have to be convinced, if you like, by the initial business case that closing the idea sent the communities and looking to rebuild the Royal London Hospital in Tower Hamlets.

00:34:05:09 - 00:34:09:12
David Panter
Yeah, combining the resources of the two hospitals was the right the right decision.

00:34:09:12 - 00:34:09:16
Daniel Franco
Yeah.

00:34:09:22 - 00:34:26:02
David Panter
And so that's then needing to have that sort of academic evidence base. And so a needs assessment of what were the, the health dynamics of those populations, what were then the services that they might need.

00:34:26:04 - 00:34:27:08
Daniel Franco
So, so there's a lot of database.

00:34:27:08 - 00:34:28:17
David Panter
All that work behind it.

00:34:28:17 - 00:34:30:23
Daniel Franco
So you knew that the decision making was and.

00:34:30:23 - 00:34:56:05
David Panter
That's Yeah, and that's, that's part of my academic skills. Yeah. Is I'm good at handling I am not a detail person. I'm very clear I hate detail. I'm very good at big picture. I'm very good at sort of reading data and complex policy documents quite quickly. And putting them together in a way which enables other people who are less good at that.

00:34:56:05 - 00:34:58:12
David Panter
Yeah. To graphs quickly what it all means.

00:34:58:13 - 00:34:58:23
Daniel Franco
Absolutely.

00:34:58:23 - 00:35:01:01
David Panter
I think that's one of my key skill sets.

00:35:01:04 - 00:35:25:04
Daniel Franco
That was your key skill set, right? Was being able to collate that data. Is that something that has really held you in good stead? The learnings that you had in that early phase of making that large change? No doubt. And we'll hear more of it as we continue through your career journey. You've been kind of the person that's been called in to come in and fix things right and help transform.

00:35:25:09 - 00:35:30:08
Daniel Franco
Do you feel like that early learning of the way in which you manage that project held you in stead for the rest of your career?

00:35:30:10 - 00:36:09:15
David Panter
Absolutely. And again, I think I just feel incredibly privileged that I've managed to be in particular places at particular times that have enabled me to learn and grow. And I think also part of I mean, I would go back to the guy thing in that because of it, it's very different now, but because of what it was like then, I had very little expectation of the thought of having a family and having children.

00:36:09:17 - 00:36:39:02
David Panter
And so in terms of thinking about my career, I think I had great flexibility because I didn't have to think about, I've got to get the next job to get the increase in pay, to be able to afford to have the kids to be able to do X, Y, and Z. I could take far more risk and pick the jobs that I was interested in and do them because I was really interested in them rather than because I thought I had to.

00:36:39:03 - 00:36:41:02
David Panter
Yeah. And so I didn't.

00:36:41:02 - 00:36:42:06
Daniel Franco
Have anyone else to provide.

00:36:42:06 - 00:37:02:17
David Panter
For. That's right. And that it's when I look at many of my colleagues from the time and many who've gone on to do some really great things, and I want somebody who I was very good friends with, ended up running the whole of the NHS until a few years ago, and I just never saw myself as wanting that sort of trajectory.

00:37:02:18 - 00:37:32:17
David Panter
I just wanted to be able to have interesting jobs. Yeah, that kept me alive and passionate, not doing something because I thought it was the next thing I had to do in my career. And so that has given me greater flexibility to try and get myself into that interesting place at that interesting time to be doing something new and something different, because I certainly know in the same way that I know I'm not a detailed operational person, I'm equally not a maintenance person.

00:37:32:17 - 00:37:36:11
David Panter
The last thing I really want to do is just see something, take over.

00:37:36:15 - 00:38:05:24
Daniel Franco
Yeah, see, you're the second. See that said that to me recently, which is around, you know, my game is to come in and help transform and change when it's steady sailing. You know, I get a little bit bored when I want to go off and help someone else or use my skill set. So. So you became at that point, we're talking in the story, you were the acting chief and then you obviously then went on to become a chief executive.

00:38:06:03 - 00:38:25:07
Daniel Franco
What was that learning like? You know, in our conversation you said I was one of the youngest chief executives at the time. How did you in amongst all these learn and develop yourself? Like did you put time and effort into it? Did you say, actually, I want to lead this company, I want to lead this department, I want to lead.

00:38:25:07 - 00:38:51:03
Daniel Franco
I mean, you ended up at Broughton Local Council as well, which was responsible, I think. How many for the 20 300,000 people or something? That's right. Yeah. 20,000 staff in there in amongst that as well. Was that the trajectory in which you saw your career going is actually I'm going to lead and and what do I need to do as a leader and manage my own behavior and my own knowledge and everything else that goes with it?

00:38:51:05 - 00:39:18:04
David Panter
No. And and again, I'm a very good, very bad role model in the sense that I did attend a three week general management training program in 1987, I think it was at the King's Fund Institute, and it was a great program, but that's the only formal bit of management change training I've ever had. Everything else has been on the job.

00:39:18:05 - 00:39:23:08
David Panter
Yeah, and, and really learning from those that I respect. Yeah.

00:39:23:10 - 00:39:24:21
Daniel Franco
And that's why he's in it.

00:39:24:21 - 00:39:54:22
David Panter
Yeah, exactly. And I've just got, I have, I wouldn't have done what I've done without some amazing people and I have to say particularly some amazing women. Dr. Leal of Lesotho, the appointment to that first job in Islington around HIV Doctor Sheila Adam, who then appointed me to this big service job. Barbara Young. Now Baroness Barbara Young in the House of Lords in the UK, who was the chief executive that health authority going down the commissioning role.

00:39:54:22 - 00:40:15:24
David Panter
That gave me the opportunity and same in going to my first chief exec job and I think I was 31 in Hillingdon in West London. And for those of you don't know Hillingdon, it's where Heathrow Airport is. So I also took on responsibility for all of the health around Heathrow and immigration and all that sort of stuff as part of that.

00:40:16:01 - 00:40:38:04
David Panter
And Sandra Edwards, who is the chair who appointed me there, you know, I go through I went through phases where I thought I needed to conform in order to get the progress. And so I did want to be a chief exec. And so I remember going to the interview, I wore suit and tie, as you would expect, but I took my earrings out and I've had earrings since I was 15 or 16.

00:40:38:04 - 00:40:52:08
David Panter
Yeah. And after the interview, Sandra rang me up and settled into it. Really well, we really love you to come and be our chief exec. And she said, And I think you can put the earrings back.

00:40:52:11 - 00:40:53:15
Daniel Franco
Like this, you know.

00:40:53:20 - 00:41:14:11
David Panter
Because, you know, she knew because I had a profile that I wore earrings that. Yeah. You know, and it's sort of that. And so it's little learnings like that. But then being given the opportunity to undertake some of these bigger changes and, you know, Hillingdon was great because it was my first chief exec job, but it was in a time of a lot of change.

00:41:14:13 - 00:41:49:00
David Panter
And through that I got to work with the Blair Government on the modernization of the NHS. When the Blair government first came in towards the end of the nineties and set up the country's first one of the first primary care trusts, which was the new model in which services were going to be delivered with GPS running things and saw I had over 350 individual GP GP's who are part of the NHS but are also private, privately run, trying to coalesce and bring them together to work in this sort of co-design way.

00:41:49:00 - 00:41:52:20
David Panter
And I think that was again just an amazing opportunity. Yeah.

00:41:52:22 - 00:42:18:03
Daniel Franco
We you was your when you walk into a role as CEO, do you going with the knowledge of what needs to be transformed straight away and and as in have do you get that sort of gut feel looking from the outside in or does it take time for you to learn and understand and being at a pivot and shift?

00:42:18:05 - 00:42:52:16
David Panter
I think it's a it's a mixture because if you with the current role at Minda, for example, you know, it's been very difficult to live within the South Australian environment in recent years without seeing, you know, the headlines in The Advertiser about what's happened at Minda over recent years. And so absolute, utterly. I went in to the interviews for that process with a very clear view, a pitch as to what I thought needed to happen in order to bring mental good.

00:42:52:18 - 00:43:16:19
David Panter
and if the you know, and I was very frank with the board that this is what I think, yeah, I need to check this out, but these are certainly, certainly the types of things we need to be doing. If you're up for that, then I'm very happy to if you ask me to accept the job. But if you don't believe that's the right thing, then equally, yeah, I don't feel I'll walk away.

00:43:16:20 - 00:43:18:10
David Panter
It's not a Well.

00:43:18:10 - 00:43:20:17
Daniel Franco
You're right in the most part for that.

00:43:20:19 - 00:43:21:08
David Panter
I said well.

00:43:21:10 - 00:43:25:15
Daniel Franco
What work are you. I would disclose what those were, those things that you said.

00:43:25:17 - 00:43:49:08
David Panter
well it's in line with what I've already indicated elsewhere in my life. It's sort of I think Minda had lost its focus on why it was there and who it was. Therefore, with their for people with intellectual disability and to enable them to have the best lives. And as an organization, we diversified into a whole range of things which weren't necessarily the core business and therefore became a distraction.

00:43:49:10 - 00:44:14:23
David Panter
And so the last couple of years has been rebuilding back that core purpose. And that starts with actually talking and listening to the people that were there for people with intellectual disability and why they didn't like what Linda was offering them, and then how do we change what Linda offers so that it's more consistent with what they and their families or support networks are looking for?

00:44:15:00 - 00:44:19:11
David Panter
So it's again, I don't think it's rocket science.

00:44:19:11 - 00:44:55:12
Daniel Franco
No. But it is interesting because, you know, I started my own business right. This this is the business that I started and co-founded and run. And when you first start off, it's kind of it's let's grab whatever we can. We can you know, it will do whatever we have to do to survive, right? And then as you grow older, you you start realizing actually being connected to the core purpose and having that niche is far more valuable to the community in which you serve than trying to do everything for that community.

00:44:55:14 - 00:45:18:06
Daniel Franco
So something that we've learned over time, especially with our own my own business. It seems to me, though, that you are and throughout your whole career and the word purpose has come up a couple of times that you are connected to purpose. Therefore, it's very easy for you to look in and say, Hang on, we're clearly not living to what our values are, to what our purpose is.

00:45:18:08 - 00:45:43:20
Daniel Franco
We've diversified way too much here, hence the reason why we're in a bit of trouble, because we're not. We're actually now not serving in a way in which we're good at. Would you say that's a common thing amongst many businesses? And and further to that, how do you stop thinking about the brand new shiny ball and the opportunity for the cash grab with these things and stick to your purpose?

00:45:43:22 - 00:45:46:20
Daniel Franco
I mean, there's a bit of tempt that comes into that as well.

00:45:46:22 - 00:46:30:06
David Panter
But but I think that probably is is a is a key issue in terms of what is an organization therefore and is growth the only factor that you're in pursuit of. And I and it's why I do have significant concerns, for example, about the way in which we have swallowed hook, line and sinker that for the not for profit or mission based sector, we're importing a corporate governance model because I don't think that the corporate governance model is necessarily right.

00:46:30:06 - 00:46:57:08
David Panter
And I'm not suggesting we don't want good practice, but what I've seen in other organized, not for profit organizations is you have a more corporate style board that is completely focused on the bottom line and potentially will reduce the types of services they're doing, particularly in an environment where the government are commissioning or procuring services. They'll focus on where they think they can get the best return.

00:46:57:10 - 00:47:19:19
David Panter
Whereas in reality, in my mind, not for profit is a not for profit. Yes, we need to make enough profit to cover our costs and to do good. But we're not looking to be, you know, mega cash rich. Yeah, in my view, some will disagree with that. And so I think that's part of the challenge is what is right.

00:47:19:19 - 00:47:54:00
David Panter
You know you mentioned earlier on about how I sort of learn or how I've developed. And I also, in addition to just learning from the good people around me, there's been occasions when I've decided I need to understand something better and will then try and work out a way of doing that. And when I was in that first job in Hillingdon, I was really concerned about how much of the health budget was clearly being spent on pharmaceuticals, you know, And so I wanted to understand how the pharmaceutical business worked.

00:47:54:02 - 00:48:11:19
David Panter
And we had a big multinational pharmaceutical company actually in the area in terms of their headquarters, and I managed to get myself a six month sort of part time secondment to them just to be able to get a sense of how they would operate it. And yeah, okay.

00:48:12:00 - 00:48:14:08
Daniel Franco
And so you put yourself in this situation.

00:48:14:08 - 00:48:42:23
David Panter
Absolutely. And what it brought home to me, though, is that that company that made billions literally had about 12, 13 key products and that supports it entirely. And yes, they did lots of research and that's a very fancy research set ups to try and find new products. Yeah, but the whole business actually was existed internationally on about 12 or 13 particular drugs.

00:48:42:24 - 00:49:03:01
David Panter
Yeah. And that and so I also came away from that experience not just knowing the, a bit more about the drug world but with pharmaceutical world and but it was also very it took, it took out of me any notion that I wanted to work in the private sector. Yeah because I actually just find it quite boring. Yeah.

00:49:03:06 - 00:49:05:17
David Panter
It was like what is this? What do. Yeah.

00:49:05:19 - 00:49:09:06
Daniel Franco
Is rinse repeat almost. Whereas with what you're doing in.

00:49:09:06 - 00:49:20:19
David Panter
Health and social care, whether you're dealing with, with people with huge diversity of need, how age, spectrum, it's just, it's, there's never a day that's necessarily the same.

00:49:20:22 - 00:49:37:16
Daniel Franco
But on that I mean you said you don't believe that non-for-profit needs to be cash rich. This is perspective that the more cash you have, the more good that you can do, right. In the sense that the more the world, the more people with this disability you can help now.

00:49:37:17 - 00:49:49:21
David Panter
Absolutely. I think there's I'm not I'm not opposed to fund raising. What I am opposed to is focusing your core purpose on those things which are profitable.

00:49:49:21 - 00:49:50:12
Daniel Franco
Yeah.

00:49:50:14 - 00:49:58:08
David Panter
And that is one of the big issues at the moment with the NDIS, and that's part of why the Government is sort of clamping down on the degree of fraud etc. etc..

00:49:58:08 - 00:50:00:00
Daniel Franco
Yeah, there's a lot going on. Yeah.

00:50:00:00 - 00:50:28:06
David Panter
So I just think I'm just really mindful of the fact that I say the corporate governance model isn't necessarily the right model for many, not for profit, some mission based organizations, because I've seen it happen where that board is following all of its fiduciary responsibilities, etc. but by default they actually miss why they were created in the first place, correct?

00:50:28:08 - 00:50:42:21
Daniel Franco
Yeah, which is ultimately we're here to serve. Right? So when you and we've kind of skipped in your career while we're talking about I mean, how bad was it when you walked in?

00:50:42:23 - 00:51:14:14
David Panter
I mean, I think it was very challenged financially, as I said, that made a lot of decisions which had you used up the capital that it did have and reserves that it did had, but it also more fundamentally hadn't really got to grips with the world of NDIS and how that was different from being an organization that just got a single big block contract and was free to do what it felt was right to do.

00:51:14:14 - 00:52:01:20
David Panter
Yeah, because with NGOs and I absolutely support this model, it's for individual, the individual clients, consumers, participants, whatever we want to call them, the people living with intellectual disability themselves get the money and then they choose who they want to spend that money with and what their expectations are from that. And so it was the, in my view, that it was that dual element of pursuing a strategy to survive that was based on diversification rather than on the core business, and then by default neglecting the core business and not really having the dialog, the engagement with people that we were directly there to support.

00:52:01:22 - 00:52:02:24
David Panter
Yeah.

00:52:03:01 - 00:52:17:17
Daniel Franco
And was that the key reason in which you took on the job and wanted to go because you left from Asia to go to Team India, did you? Was it actually this is exciting. I can turn this around and bring it back to purpose.

00:52:17:23 - 00:52:45:09
David Panter
Yeah, I mean I've been very open and honest with people. I mean I'd always assumed that the role skates would be my last full time chief exec job. Yeah. and I'd done it sort of just over seven years. We'd done the transformation that SRH had wanted away from residential aged care to focus on housing and home care and enabling older people to live at home until death and to have a good and respectful death at home.

00:52:45:11 - 00:53:11:23
David Panter
We've made a lot of change in that space. We were getting into that maintenance mode. And so and again, I think I do feel quite strongly that the you need to refresh the leadership at chief exec level. I don't know. SRH was a good example where the founding chief executive been there for over 30 years. My predecessor had been there for over 20.

00:53:12:03 - 00:53:12:19
Daniel Franco
Yeah.

00:53:12:21 - 00:53:36:08
David Panter
There was no way that I was going to be there. And so again, after seven years, it began to felt that it it was important for them just to have a refresh and to think differently and it just so happened that my thoughts around that coincided with them in the job coming up. Yeah, Had a long discussion with Desmond, my partner, about what should we do, what should I do about this?

00:53:36:10 - 00:54:10:06
David Panter
And decided because of my strength of feeling about an organization like Minda should be doing a better job. And Minda provides support to some of the most severely disadvantaged individuals with intellectual disability and with the heart with a high degree of complexity. And if if Minda doesn't exist, what's going to happen? All those people? Because I don't think there's necessarily other organizations with the same depth of experience that could pick that up.

00:54:10:08 - 00:54:41:11
David Panter
So I felt that it was an appropriate challenge. Yeah, but as I said earlier, I was very clear going into that process, had a long conversation with the chair of Minda before applying to make sure that I got a sense of whether we'd be on the same page, which we were putting. My application went through the interview process really plays into that included a second phase where I actually got sort of interviewed by family members.

00:54:41:13 - 00:54:53:15
David Panter
So they could check me out as well. So it felt a very thorough process. And so yeah, so I sort of committed to potentially five years to Minda to be able to oversee this sort of transformation.

00:54:53:17 - 00:54:55:12
Daniel Franco
And you're three years in.

00:54:55:14 - 00:54:56:06
David Panter
Two years, it's too.

00:54:56:07 - 00:55:03:14
Daniel Franco
Easy. That's right. You're looking at the new strategy. So your first strategy was to get you out of the debt that you were in.

00:55:03:15 - 00:55:25:21
David Panter
That's right. Yeah. So it's very much a recovery strategy and that was initially a three year strategy. But at the moment, we're on schedule to to achieve most of the objectives of that by the end of this financial year. So two financial years rather than three. So we're now the board is now working on the strategy that will come into place.

00:55:25:23 - 00:55:32:23
David Panter
So for FY 25, that then begins to focus on sustainability and growth within that context.

00:55:33:00 - 00:55:38:04
Daniel Franco
So 26 million in debt is that we're got to at some point is that the numbers.

00:55:38:04 - 00:55:47:09
David Panter
And so we we in terms of of of line of credit arrangements and being fully utilized by the bank. Yes, it was that sort of order.

00:55:47:11 - 00:55:58:20
Daniel Franco
So how do you turn something like that around. What what I mean obviously we've we've said you went back to purpose and I do believe there was an announcement recently with yourselves and the Bedford Group.

00:55:59:00 - 00:56:33:15
David Panter
No, that's right. Yep. That's that's because we have been the provider of support employment programs in a number of businesses like the electronic recycling service and a variety of other things. And again, the board's come to a view that that's not our core business is bedsits. And so if we can organize, which we hopefully in the middle of doing now a successful transfer of those businesses to Bedford that will enable them to grow and develop and enable us to, as part of our refocusing on our core business of supporting people to live independently.

00:56:33:17 - 00:56:39:11
Daniel Franco
So we've been doing that with Moran and he's been on the show. He's he's a great human being. Moran makes an issue of that.

00:56:39:13 - 00:57:12:24
David Panter
That's been very good working with Moran. And so it's so there's the work being going on to look at the core purpose. But a lot of the financial issues we've had to grapple with have also been about basic processes. you know, the NDIS at its core is a good system in that, you know, it's your you have to make claims for the services you provide for an individual, but they pay within three days.

00:57:13:01 - 00:57:35:15
David Panter
Yeah. And a lot of the basic system that Minda just didn't you know someone. I think when I arrived we were something like 1213 million in arrears. Yeah. Well for actually claiming payments that were due to us. Yeah. Well and so a lot of the work over the last two years has also been putting in place some of those basic systems.

00:57:35:17 - 00:57:59:15
David Panter
and again getting a streamlining of the systems within the organizations. So to get those invoices to end, I signed off, went through multiple hands in different physical locations. Yeah. So one of the first things that I did there was create what we now call the client Services Unit. Yep. Which has brought all of those people together into a single.

00:57:59:15 - 00:58:00:17
Daniel Franco
Team done in the.

00:58:00:17 - 00:58:01:11
David Panter
Same building.

00:58:01:17 - 00:58:02:03
Daniel Franco
Makes sense.

00:58:02:04 - 00:58:26:05
David Panter
And they then are also the front face of Minder with all the clients that we have. So if you're a client or a family member of a client, you've got a problem, That's who you go to. Yeah. And then you hopefully can get a single answer of anything to do with the services being provided to you. Yeah. Whereas previously you have to go to half a dozen different places.

00:58:26:07 - 00:58:33:21
David Panter
But that meant also in the back office it was half a dozen places trying to pull together data to be able to submit an invoice.

00:58:33:21 - 00:58:34:19
Daniel Franco
Yeah. Okay.

00:58:34:24 - 00:58:38:12
David Panter
So just some very basic processes.

00:58:38:14 - 00:58:56:19
Daniel Franco
You know, I mean, it was in the paper quite a bit there for a period and it wasn't all good that was written about them, which naturally is going to have an impact on your workforce. Right. And the engagement of your workforce and the ability to retain and attract new people to to working for you. How did you manage that situation?

00:58:56:21 - 00:59:02:16
Daniel Franco
And culturally, how did you manage that and in trying to shift and turn the boat around?

00:59:02:18 - 00:59:28:12
David Panter
So again, I think it's my starting point is that in any organization I've worked in, you know, 19 95% of the people who work there want to work there, have the right intent and want to be able to do the right thing. And if they're not able to do the right thing, it's more than likely because we as an organization have put a barrier in their way to doing that.

00:59:28:14 - 01:00:00:06
David Panter
Okay. And so we've got to own up to that and we've got to have that engagement with staff and listen to their perspective. And I in some ways, again, it's sort of the using your own experience. So this is a e, c h where we did a lot of work in the technology space. And I am somebody who, despite my interest in innovation at a personal level, don't engage with a lot of technology.

01:00:00:06 - 01:00:30:07
David Panter
Obviously I've got a phone and a computer, but you know, I'm not somebody who is particularly avid follower of all of that. and at CCH we brought in as part of streamlining a methodology, an app for dealing with corporate credit cards. Yep. And it and I use that now as a story to staff to say, look, change affects all of us and sometimes we've actually just got to get on with it.

01:00:30:09 - 01:00:44:13
David Panter
And so I was the one who was the most recalcitrant of using the app because in my old world I just brought in my credit card receipt, you know, the invoices and receipts and just handed it all to the wonderful Margaret, who was my idea. And she just dealt with it.

01:00:44:13 - 01:00:45:02
Daniel Franco
Yeah.

01:00:45:04 - 01:01:02:20
David Panter
With the app. I had to take photos. I had to do staff at the time, which was just a pain. Yeah. Took up more of my time, which I didn't want to do that, but I then realized, well, actually I have to do this. And if I don't do it well as the rest of the organization going to do it.

01:01:02:23 - 01:01:40:19
David Panter
And so I think the for me, the engagement of staff is about creating an ability to engage with them in a meaningful way. And so, again, for me that is at a personal level. So I spend a lot of time out and about in services being visible. I don't have any pomp and ceremony. one of the first things I did in creating the new executive team at Minda is put us all in an open plan office because I believe it enhances our ability to work together.

01:01:40:21 - 01:02:13:21
David Panter
But it's also a visible sign to the rest of the organization about how we work together and that we're no different to anybody else because our other back office staff work in open offices. So why should the exact be any different? And and also giving a guarantee to staff And I do do things like roadshows, too. When we launched the recovery strategy, went on to reach out, to talk to all staff in all our locations about what that was about and what it meant for them, and giving people a guarantee that if they email me, I will respond within 24 hours.

01:02:13:21 - 01:02:35:04
David Panter
Yeah, and it may be that yeah, I need more time, but I'll come back and say that I need more time to think about that. Yeah, because I want them to come back to me with their concerns. Also, what they've spotted as a barrier, what they've spotted is an opportunity to improve what we do to support somebody with intellectual disability.

01:02:35:04 - 01:02:55:05
David Panter
And yet they've got far more ideas. Again, I constantly saw absolutely I have 100 ideas every day, but thankfully I've got enough sense to have a team around me who say to 99 and a half of those, Yeah. David You think it's a good idea? It's actually a pilot crap. Yeah, forget.

01:02:55:07 - 01:03:18:16
Daniel Franco
It. I'm reminded of the same thing every day. Well, just on that. So that brings up the role of a CEO. I mean, what what have you learned about your role? About the role of a CEO over the years? And I mean, just the role of leadership in general? obviously, you know, you came you got you came to when did you come to Australia?

01:03:18:18 - 01:03:20:01
David Panter
20 years ago and four.

01:03:20:02 - 01:03:46:11
Daniel Franco
2004. So 2004 you came here and you walked into roles in key roles of Central Northern Health Network, local health network, then Central and Allied Health Network, and then in TCHC, all being CEO roles and obviously the common role of the Central Adelaide Health Network. You were, responsible of managing the new Royal Adelaide, the $1.83 billion project there.

01:03:46:11 - 01:04:07:22
Daniel Franco
So that was a huge piece of work. One of you looking back at your career and I think you've said to me previously that Minda is your last see around this time, as you said, with age, looking back in your career, what have you learned from your leadership journey? More sticks in your mind More than anything else?

01:04:08:01 - 01:04:34:01
David Panter
I think it is. I'm trying not to use the trendy words, but I think it's for me, it's about being real and trying to avoid the word authentic because, yeah, it's kind of like, Yeah, but I think it's about being real and not putting yourself into the other category because of how you perceive your status. And well, I'm the chief executive.

01:04:34:03 - 01:05:04:09
David Panter
I, I'm just so fundamentally opposed to that perspective because I think that and I will often in organizations I've done this throughout my career is I present organizational structure diagrams upside down to the traditional way. So I will put the chief exec at the bottom because my job is to support the rest of the organization.

01:05:04:10 - 01:05:05:03
Daniel Franco
Yeah, I like that.

01:05:05:08 - 01:05:49:01
David Panter
And yes, and again, the thing I share a lot with people that I've mentored, it's I don't believe that we even should be necessarily talking about leadership. It's followership. Yeah, you can't be a leader unless people are willing to follow. And people, in my experience, won't follow if they don't have confidence. And therefore, a lot of the anxiety in my role is because again, I think if a chief exec gets too cocky, if they think they know it, then the distance between them and those following is getting too big.

01:05:49:03 - 01:05:59:00
David Panter
Yeah. And so you need to be enough ahead in order to give people confidence that you know where we're going. Yeah. Yeah. Without actually knowing. Yeah.

01:05:59:03 - 01:06:00:07
Daniel Franco
I mean and that was.

01:06:00:09 - 01:06:08:06
David Panter
Sort of well that was the anxiety to me. That's always the area for me. And if I feel to comfortable then that's, it's not in the right spot.

01:06:08:06 - 01:06:46:07
Daniel Franco
I and that was going to be my question because when you say real, you know, slash authentic, if I look at myself, my real authentic self is I don't actually know like I'm figuring this out as we go along. How much can you how much can you say that to people? Right. Especially if you're looking for followership, If you're not clear and concise and you're figuring this out as you go along, which I think most people I've spoken to, a lot of CEOs, and many of them are like, you know, you make your mistakes and you don't you're going to continue to make mistakes.

01:06:46:09 - 01:07:01:12
Daniel Franco
how do you how do you sort of mold that together in what's real but what is actually needed for quality leadership, direction, whatever you call that?

01:07:01:14 - 01:07:23:11
David Panter
I think it is the so yeah, for me, it goes back to what I was saying earlier on that it's the it's it's it's having that sense of being slightly ahead. But for that to work, you've got to have those good communication and feedback processes and engagement with staff.

01:07:23:12 - 01:07:24:09
Daniel Franco
Yeah.

01:07:24:11 - 01:07:51:19
David Panter
Because they feed off each other in a way. So and I'm and I think it's probably got more so as I've got older, to be frank and the my work persona and my personal life persona are very different and I am one of those. But I would now very happily describe myself as, you know, at work. I'm an extrovert.

01:07:51:21 - 01:08:15:09
David Panter
I've got no problem with standing up in front of thousands of people or half a dozen people and leading a process or whatever. Yeah, but it's something I hate doing in my private life and, you know, even to the point when it was my 60th birthday a couple of years ago and was persuaded to have the the party, which didn't really have and knew I was going to have to do some sort of speech.

01:08:15:13 - 01:08:37:09
David Panter
Yeah, my only way of handling that was to do a PowerPoint presentation, which was all photographs. And it was and was really just saying, Look, I've got a wonderful hundred people here in the room with me. But the reality is, none of you have known me for more than a third of my life. Yeah And had this event been back in the UK, there would be a lot of other people there as well.

01:08:37:10 - 01:08:55:10
David Panter
And so I want to share with you all those other people that would have been here, and that also then enabled me to pay my respect to some of those people I mentioned. Yeah, because they were in some of the photographs. Yeah. Still friends, you know, who just so great to me in past lives. Yeah. So so yeah.

01:08:55:10 - 01:09:25:09
David Panter
So I'm very aware that I have a work persona which is extrovert but is also that it? Again, I've said it several times, not standing on ceremony. I am not driven by status. I think I probably made the decision ten, 15, probably ten or 12 years ago that part of me being real was dressing as I would dress.

01:09:25:10 - 01:09:36:21
David Panter
Yeah. Now I said early on about the earrings that they've always been there, but, you know, I would often wear a suit to work. I don't have a suit and I don't know because I just it's not something I feel.

01:09:36:21 - 01:09:38:04
Daniel Franco
Come down. You look great the way.

01:09:38:04 - 01:09:51:12
David Panter
You are, but it's an and it's how I want our staff to feel. Yeah. They don't have to wear a particular form of dresses. Yeah. Relevant. Yeah. I'm more interested in how they're actually doing the job and what sort of person they are.

01:09:51:14 - 01:10:16:20
Daniel Franco
And I think just while we are on the subject of leadership and, you know, and being let's see, I guess in this in this instance, you're walking into a role two years ago and all the other roles there before, which is so important for, the people, especially particularly here in South Australia, I'm not discounting anything you do back in the UK, I'm just talking about South Australia now that's so important.

01:10:16:21 - 01:10:38:21
Daniel Franco
I mean, the cooperation right now is so important for South Australia. The new Royal Adelaide Hospital was so important to South Australia, the aged care world. You know, we're all getting old, right? And we're all going to end up in that world at some point is so important when you walk in and especially in the case of of where it was to where you're trying to take it, Do you ever doubt yourself?

01:10:38:22 - 01:10:53:19
Daniel Franco
Do you have a do you have is there any sort of fear and and you mentioned the word anxiety before. Do you ever think should if I stuff this up like I'm I'm actually probably going to do have potentially could do more detrimental though.

01:10:53:19 - 01:11:26:00
David Panter
Absolutely And and I think that you know that's that issue about also being very aware of the mistakes of the past that you've made and a learning from that that also potentially gives some perspective. So again it's I've if I take the example of when I spent a number of years as the chief executive, Brighton Hove City Council.

01:11:26:02 - 01:11:44:07
David Panter
So a bizarre role in a way because it's local government in the UK, it's very different to here in Australia because it's more like state government run everything and it was a population of 300,000. Very few people end up in those jobs who haven't grown up in local government.

01:11:44:07 - 01:11:45:02
Daniel Franco
Yeah.

01:11:45:04 - 01:12:15:18
David Panter
I had a reputation commented on in the National Professional Press in the UK of being. I got labeled a boundary, right, that I always worked on the edge of systems of health. I was interested in that interface between GP's and hospitals and then I got interested in the way in which health and social care work together. And so for me, moving to local government, particularly Brighton, given my historic affiliation with that place, being a university there, it was just a great opportunity.

01:12:15:20 - 01:12:40:07
David Panter
But some awful things happened there and which were genuinely tragic, which I had to take responsibility for that were outside of my control. Can you? Well, yes. So we had an we ran child protection services. We had the awful death of a baby that should never have happened. And now that happened, you know, X number layers away from me.

01:12:40:07 - 01:13:04:20
David Panter
But I'm the chief exec. Yeah. So I have to take responsibility. Yeah, I have to apologize. I have to appear in court going back to the health days when they introduce care in the community. And so that meant closing down the institutions, which I also got the pleasure of doing here with Glenside when I arrived. But I closed down something similar to Glenside in the early nineties when I was in East London.

01:13:04:20 - 01:13:34:16
David Panter
And one of the ramifications of care in the community is that some people with mental health issues did unfortunately do some tragic things. And there was one particular one where somebody pushed somebody under a cheap train. Yeah, well, and again that ended up as a coronial and then an inquiry, I had to front the health services as to what we had done to enable that person with mental health issues to be in that place at that time too.

01:13:34:18 - 01:14:02:04
David Panter
Those are far more to me important. Consider incidents of what I have or haven't done that I've had to get to grips with emotionally. And and so when there were the sort tough times I reflect back on, those are not necessarily organizational type issues. Yeah, the consequence of those is in many cases not that great.

01:14:02:08 - 01:14:04:14
Daniel Franco
Yeah, yeah. It's the consequence on the individual.

01:14:04:14 - 01:14:37:07
David Panter
And so that bringing it back to now and Minda, that's why our entire focus is, is now around. Okay. Having got back to that core business, how do we really make sure that our staff on the ground day in day out are actually doing what they need to do to enable somebody with intellectual disability to have their best life and how do we make sure that they've got the appropriate training, they've got the experience, they're being supported to do those things because those are the things that are actually going to make a real difference.

01:14:37:07 - 01:14:43:04
David Panter
Yeah, Yeah. In terms of outcomes for those individuals and their families know.

01:14:43:06 - 01:15:10:17
Daniel Franco
Thank you for sharing that. The another conversation, which I think just ties into what you said then about especially supporting those with disabilities for a better life. And you you said this to me on on the phone the other day, which was around the aged care space, but kind of ties into the disability sector as well, which was there's a sense of guilt when you send your relatives to aged care.

01:15:10:17 - 01:15:21:00
Daniel Franco
And then the same might be it might be the same from a disability point of view as Can you elaborate on your thoughts because I know this is a really passion point for you. Yeah.

01:15:21:02 - 01:16:08:04
David Panter
So it's and again, it probably reflects in my sort of psychology background and how I view the world. So I certainly think that one of the issues that doesn't get addressed in policy sufficiently is the role of guilt in decision making around services, particularly aged care and now disability, because yeah, and I think what I observed in aged care was that it's the children wanting to get the best possible, their mum or their dad and wanting to and acknowledging that they, their lives are such because they've got, they have kids of their own, they've got working lives.

01:16:08:06 - 01:16:42:15
David Panter
So their ability to give their mum or their dad that best life is hampered. Yeah. And so, but they want to make sure it happens and so they then have expectations of the service that's doing that for. Yeah, yeah. Instead of them. And that they're also then potentially and we saw this time and time again. I think the best solution is therefore residential aged care, when in fact that older person could actually stay living at their home much longer, that there's that anxiety about the not safe.

01:16:42:15 - 01:17:15:24
David Panter
And if I'm not and they were they fell over or yeah happened that would be awful etc. etc.. Whereas in reality accidents happen to people to fall over and we all of something in the end. And, and in my experience at Minda, it's the reverse of that, it's the issues around parents. Or if parents have died and the mantle has been passed to siblings of the person with intellectual disability, they want that person to have that best life and they want to make sure they're safe.

01:17:16:01 - 01:17:26:09
David Panter
And in doing that, though, it may actually limit the risks that that person is allowed to take and therefore they don't necessarily get the best life.

01:17:26:10 - 01:17:27:07
Daniel Franco
Experiences.

01:17:27:09 - 01:18:08:01
David Panter
Experiences. And so how do we then work with with people with that guilt to enable them to reflect on that, to think differently so that the individual concerned, the person which can actually take some risks, they can go out, they can do things, they actually might. And we've had some wonderful examples where, you know, thinking of somebody who has lived in a more a larger group setting, which was to institutional at Minda where pre-prepared meals were being brought in, etc., etc., every day.

01:18:08:03 - 01:18:37:14
David Panter
And and we made the decision for a number of those for individuals to move out of that setting into a house in the community. And a lot of anxiety from family and from staff about, they won't be able to cope. They can't do it. Yeah, but actually it's been amazing and those people know their staff now work with those people to go to the shops to get the food, to then help them prepare the meals so they're not pre-prepared being brought in yet.

01:18:37:16 - 01:18:54:14
David Panter
And as a consequence, one of those people has now started feeding themselves. We were told they've never fed themselves. They've had to be fed. They're now feeding themselves. Yeah. Now that's okay. A small guide. It's really important that person.

01:18:54:15 - 01:18:55:03
Daniel Franco
Absolutely.

01:18:55:03 - 01:19:03:21
David Panter
That suddenly they feel able to feed themselves. Yeah. Whereas not relying on. Yeah exactly So so it's sort of it's it's that sort of.

01:19:03:22 - 01:19:19:20
Daniel Franco
It's it's the this is a that child parent thing, same sort of thing. You know, you got to let your child fall over and scrape. They need to know not to do it again. Right. And they have to that's how they learn. It's this is the same sort of sort of scenario. I, I am conscious of your time.

01:19:19:20 - 01:19:48:22
Daniel Franco
We are flowing through this talking for an hour and a half now. But I guess one thing that I do want to really talk on before we jump into some quickfire questions is what do you think the challenges from the health care sector, the aged care, the disability sector, what are you concerned about? More so than anything else, looking, looking for ten, 20 years time?

01:19:48:24 - 01:20:42:10
David Panter
I think probably consistent with some of what I've articulated already. The I have a view that we need to develop those systems so that people are seen holistically. We've been great as a society both here and in the UK, as carving people up. So you have a health issue, you've got a disability, your age or whatever. We don't look holistically at what that person needs and some of the most innovative developments happening within health and social care elsewhere in the and indeed in particular in some of the Scandinavian countries, is where they've made that step to look holistically at what somebody needs and then design the system and the services around them.

01:20:42:12 - 01:20:50:16
David Panter
We have, you know, there's always going to be an issue about whether there's enough tax dollars to pay for all the services, and we're seeing that in NDIS at the moment.

01:20:50:18 - 01:20:51:22
Daniel Franco
Yeah.

01:20:51:24 - 01:21:16:22
David Panter
That's always going to be issue that matter what the taxation rates are, that's potentially never going to be enough yet to meet all the needs and that I'm absolutely convinced we waste so much of the tax dollar because we have these discrete systems that you've got to jump across and therefore we miss people and they deteriorate because of those gaps in the system.

01:21:16:22 - 01:21:18:08
Daniel Franco
Yeah.

01:21:18:10 - 01:21:42:03
David Panter
and some of those learnings from elsewhere and it's, it's one of the things I'm I've been quite critical of publicly in the professional world within Australia is that I found in my 20 years in Australia, Australia is very bad at looking beyond its borders, what's happening elsewhere and what can be very isolated. And for me, innovation in health and social care is largely around looking what's working elsewhere.

01:21:42:03 - 01:21:57:15
David Panter
And here it's not thinking completely blue sky, doing something completely radical, it's just taking some of that work somewhere else. Can we make it work here if it's going to be better for people? Absolutely. So. So that for me is what it's the how you bring those different worlds together.

01:21:57:17 - 01:22:02:07
Daniel Franco
What does that look like? What is looking holistic? Are those three those three worlds in particular?

01:22:02:07 - 01:22:23:23
David Panter
Well, so what would happen is you might let's make it very real and say, let's look at the population of Mount Gambier, look at what their needs are that needs assessment work, getting a sense of what does that population profile look like, etc.. And okay. And then in aged care, health and disability, let's just work on those three.

01:22:24:00 - 01:22:47:00
David Panter
Take all the public money that spent in those three domains on that population of 25 30,000 people and put it all in one pot and give one body the responsibility to say, okay, you've got that pot of money now, actually spend that on services for that community that's focused on getting better outcomes.

01:22:47:02 - 01:22:47:19
Daniel Franco
Okay.

01:22:47:21 - 01:23:17:16
David Panter
And take away all of the artificial boundaries because, you know, if you're in vet care, you get something different. If you're in aged care, health hospitals will do one thing, primary care will do something else. There is think that. And I would argue that's the main reason why we've got the ramping problems we have in this state at the moment and across Australia is because we've got a complete disconnect between the way in which primary care and GP's are funded and work and how the hospital system works.

01:23:17:17 - 01:23:20:13
David Panter
Yeah, so, so this is a growing gap between the two.

01:23:20:14 - 01:23:23:07
Daniel Franco
So explain that to the to the layman person.

01:23:23:13 - 01:24:02:04
David Panter
Because with within the GP world, the funding system through Medicare is essentially an item of service payment system. You know, the more widgets you do. Yeah. The more you get paid. Yeah. Whereas what I was involved in developing in the UK was shifting away from that from GP's to being outcome focused. And so you actually got rewarded for if you had X number of people, you were responsible for as a GP who had diabetes, if at the end of the year you could see that their diabetes had improved, you got an extra payment.

01:24:02:06 - 01:24:19:03
David Panter
Yeah. Wow. So you're incentivized on outcomes, so no on inputs. and so our GP system works on inputs. Yes. Item of service payments, the widgets you do get paid regardless of whether they have any benefit for you.

01:24:19:05 - 01:24:26:20
Daniel Franco
Not to mention, can you even get into a GP these days? You're like, if you're sick, you've got to know you're going to be sick a week in advance before you. It's unbelievable.

01:24:26:20 - 01:24:55:13
David Panter
Exactly. Whereas if if the GP's were funded on the basis of having a registered population, yeah. And your basic pay was making sure you were accessible to those people when they were needed. When you were needed, Yeah. And then you had the outcome component. Yeah. You end up with a very different system. Yeah. But if the funder isn't responsible for that bit and for paying the hospital, then why would you take that into account?

01:24:55:15 - 01:24:58:12
David Panter
Whereas that notion of putting all the pot, all the money.

01:24:58:14 - 01:24:59:03
Daniel Franco
yeah.

01:24:59:05 - 01:25:33:19
David Panter
Then if I don't and I remember going to Canada with Minister Hill to look at some of the innovation over there back when we were developing the concept of the new Royal Adelaide Hospital and, and I think Minister Hill himself admitted he was stunned that his counterpart in Ontario was able to say, well, actually if I don't if I think I'm going to get better value by having more aged care services in the community than putting the money into geriatrician beds in the hospital, I'll just do that.

01:25:33:21 - 01:25:36:09
David Panter
And they had the legitimacy and the power and the remit.

01:25:36:09 - 01:25:37:11
Daniel Franco
To do that.

01:25:37:13 - 01:25:50:23
David Panter
Yeah. And so it's that sort of notion of putting everything the money into one pot and then having one body, because then they can look holistically across the services as well as the individuals to make sure you're getting better outcomes and better value for money.

01:25:51:00 - 01:26:03:01
Daniel Franco
So do you think the UK system is better than here? I mean, that's a tough, but it's probably more so than that QUESTION But I guess in the sense that they have this power and authority to make decisions.

01:26:03:03 - 01:26:09:03
David Panter
Now, I mean, because I think so unfortunately what's happened in the UK because don't forget, I haven't been there for 20.

01:26:09:03 - 01:26:14:14
Daniel Franco
Years. Yeah, you can see often here it's like we're lucky in Australia, right. We're lucky.

01:26:14:16 - 01:26:35:11
David Panter
There's I mean, certainly because of the numerous years of austerity measures that have been put in place in the UK since the financial issues back in 2008. Yeah. Then there are huge issues in the National Health Service. It's not the same National Health Service I in came works in at all. Yeah. You've got some similar issues around the way in which GP's are operating.

01:26:35:13 - 01:27:04:20
David Panter
The biggest crisis at the moment in the UK is on dental because there's virtually no NHS dental service, because it's it's just not paid well enough. And so people have opted into private and so you've got huge issues. So no, I think that the UK is not where I'd be looking for, for good practice currently as I think there are really good practices in some of the Scandinavian countries, but some of the Canadian jurisdictions.

01:27:04:23 - 01:27:19:12
David Panter
Yeah, and just some stuff happening in New Zealand as well. Yeah. So I think there are a variety of things around that we could be drawing on to look at those that that different way of doing to get better outcomes.

01:27:19:14 - 01:27:29:08
Daniel Franco
Is that something that you would look like to do post-career or do you think after? Minto That's I hang up the boots and go and travel the world and.

01:27:29:10 - 01:27:51:16
David Panter
I'm no, I'm not I mean I again part of unfortunately I don't have I'm not obsessed by work but I'm equally not somebody has huge pastimes. Yeah. So I have no yearning to sail around the world and do X, Y and Z in a retirement phase. I equally have no desire to be on. Given what I said about corporate boards, I've no desire to be here.

01:27:51:17 - 01:28:20:03
David Panter
I have a portfolio of executive positions, but certainly I'm keen to put something back as I move out of operational type chief executive roles into the policy space. And so around those different models, but also my other real passion is that in all of the changes that have happened in recent years, I believe we have fundamentally undervalued and devalued care itself.

01:28:20:05 - 01:28:35:23
David Panter
And when I talk about care, I mean the basic humanity of the physical care of somebody. And across our systems now, that task is relegated to the lowest paid, you know, systems.

01:28:35:23 - 01:28:36:13
Daniel Franco
Yeah.

01:28:36:15 - 01:28:48:06
David Panter
You know, a lot of nurses now don't do hands on care. Yeah, many of them do. But in order to progress in their careers, they have to move away from hands on care into managerial or administrative roles.

01:28:48:06 - 01:28:49:17
Daniel Franco
Yeah, it's not the same as it used to be.

01:28:49:17 - 01:28:59:02
David Panter
Within aged care, within disability. You're talking about people being on $26 an hour Yeah, with dealing with huge degree of complexity.

01:28:59:03 - 01:28:59:12
Daniel Franco
Yeah.

01:28:59:13 - 01:29:30:05
David Panter
So I want to do some work to look at how you value care in an economic way. And when we were developing the concept for the new Royal Adelaide Hospital, part of the reason why there are the single rooms and all of those single rooms have a big picture window out to the parklands or if they're inward facing to green courtyards is because there is a whole load of evidence that says even having picture of a tree hanging in your hospital room helps you get better quicker.

01:29:30:07 - 01:29:36:09
David Panter
And there's an economic reason. Yeah. To green vista being that you will an impact on your length.

01:29:36:09 - 01:29:38:13
Daniel Franco
It's an anthropological thing there isn't it.

01:29:38:13 - 01:29:43:21
David Panter
And so I believe we need to do the same around the actual care process.

01:29:44:02 - 01:29:47:07
Daniel Franco
It's that connection pace Yeah, it does feel a bit lonely when you're in.

01:29:47:07 - 01:30:07:20
David Panter
Nelspruit and I think that we need to put a real value on our frontline care staff having a relationship with the person that providing the care for. And if we genuinely valued that, then we could demonstrate that it had a sort of economic impact in an assessment how you run a service and the cost effective as a service.

01:30:07:22 - 01:30:20:16
David Panter
Yeah, so that is and I'm talking to colleagues at Flinders University in the nursing and Health Sciences space who have got a common interest around this. So I'm hoping over the next few years to do some work around that.

01:30:20:16 - 01:30:23:18
Daniel Franco
Yeah, it's just stunning at the moment. Again, I use it now.

01:30:23:18 - 01:30:47:01
David Panter
I'm not in the process of, of, of having been given an adjunct professor at the university. Yeah. With that with the health sciences and nursing school because that's the area that I want to focus on. Yeah. And I want to be able to have that relationship with an academic institution and I think my observations is that Flinders is doing that sort of work at the moment.

01:30:47:01 - 01:30:50:06
David Panter
It's got that passion around that. Yeah. So I'm keen to be part of that.

01:30:50:11 - 01:31:17:00
Daniel Franco
Just come back to your point on the nurses and I'm just thinking about the world that I live in, which is, you know, helping large organizations or any and non-for-profit or whatnot, helping them through change. One thing that we get commented on is that, you know, a lot on is that our people, our change managers, our team are always on site, whether it's at a you know, in in the Monsoor or, you know, or within the office building.

01:31:17:00 - 01:31:44:22
Daniel Franco
We're on site. And our role of managing the human element of change is always about connection. It's about constant connection, communication and being in there. And it's definitely not something that you can just do. You know, you said communication, communication, communication earlier. It's not something you can just send an email out. And it's my way of communicating. It's actually how do I meet Jo, Sarah and Tim and understand who they are and what they're smelling, touching, feeling and understand their perspective.

01:31:44:22 - 01:32:03:24
Daniel Franco
So we're able to enact honest change. And I think it's very similar to what you're saying in regards to nursing. Yes. If you can get to know someone and you can get them to feel like they belong as part of the community or the the hospital system or they feel like they're cared for, then naturally that's going to lift spirits.

01:32:03:24 - 01:32:08:22
Daniel Franco
It's going to make them feel connected. So I think there is definitely something in that.

01:32:08:22 - 01:32:36:08
David Panter
Absolutely. And it's sort of you know, it's one of the frustrations currently that hopefully might change with the NDIS. Funding, for example, is that it doesn't fund handover time, so it won't fund for two staff to be there at the same time to have a conversation about what's happened. And some believe it doesn't fund supervision. TIME So these are costs that you're meant to absorb as an organization, but which actually detract from the quality of the care and support you're providing.

01:32:36:08 - 01:33:08:16
David Panter
Yeah. And the other thing that that reminds me is that, again we're doing it s h we're about to start doing it means is that I require any of our staff who aren't client facing so classically the back office finance the h.R. Etc. that they have to spend a number of times a year shadowing a frontline member of staff because i want everybody to be connected to that core purpose.

01:33:08:16 - 01:33:09:07
Daniel Franco
Absolutely.

01:33:09:11 - 01:33:14:08
David Panter
And, you know, it's very easy if you're a finance person to be sitting correct.

01:33:14:13 - 01:33:15:09
Daniel Franco
In you office.

01:33:15:11 - 01:33:28:21
David Panter
Lose sight of what's what you're there for. So that building that in and it's a bit more challenging within a minder environment simply because we've also got to be really mindful that these are people's homes, correct? Yeah, not workplaces.

01:33:28:21 - 01:33:29:12
Daniel Franco
Yeah, correct.

01:33:29:14 - 01:33:39:13
David Panter
And so we have to negotiate differently. Yeah, I have somebody shadowing and that's what we've been working through with people with intellectual disabilities themselves. Yeah. What they would like.

01:33:39:15 - 01:33:40:20
Daniel Franco
To know that's having a.

01:33:41:00 - 01:33:42:12
David Panter
Longer to think about how it's.

01:33:42:12 - 01:34:01:09
Daniel Franco
Much needed and like you said, majority of people that mean they're connected to the cause as to why they're there and an H and then all of the above. So actually being able to see it is only going to and being part of it is only going to connect them even more. Which brings up your employee experience and then your customer experience on top of all that.

01:34:01:10 - 01:34:23:15
Daniel Franco
Yeah, right. Where we're going to sort of start diving into some some closing thoughts. I think if you had some before I go into the quickfire questions, I want to just ask if you had to encapsulate your entire journey in a single lesson or message, how would you how would you do that? What would that look like?

01:34:23:19 - 01:34:32:10
David Panter
The one thing that constantly goes around in my head, which is sort of answering and goes back to the issue of earrings?

01:34:32:10 - 01:34:33:14
Daniel Franco
Yeah. yeah.

01:34:33:16 - 01:34:36:04
David Panter
And it was when I was chief executive. Brighton Hove.

01:34:36:05 - 01:34:36:19
Daniel Franco
Yeah.

01:34:36:21 - 01:35:03:19
David Panter
And there was a little bit of a flurry from some of the local government. ASOS different is very political, had four political parties in the council, 78 elected members. So a challenge managing all of that dynamic as the chief executive. And at one point the Opposition made some comments about my earrings and indicated which led to a flurry of letters in the press about how can this person be doing the job with earrings.

01:35:03:19 - 01:35:23:17
David Panter
They'll have to go through that nose before you know it or just bizarre stuff and wonderful woman, Doreen. And I've still got the cutting at home. Wrote a little letter in saying I've been around for 89 years, and over that time I've worked out it's what happens between the ears I was in is that matters.

01:35:23:19 - 01:35:25:11
Daniel Franco
Absolutely.

01:35:25:13 - 01:35:36:04
David Panter
And that to me encapsulates, I think, that message. It's about be who you are. Yeah. And be focused on why you're there and that should hold you in good stead.

01:35:36:06 - 01:35:58:24
Daniel Franco
Absolutely. I love that if you were to give I mean you you you've quite openly said that you're coming towards the the latter part of your career and especially within sort of leadership and leading businesses. If you were to give any advice to some emerging leaders out there, what would that be?

01:35:59:01 - 01:36:31:15
David Panter
So it's two things. I think it's it's it's making sure that you're doing a job that you actually want to do and have some passion about. And secondly, about always thinking about the job after next year because to get the next job you need to be performing really well in the existing job. And so if in going into that job, because often people might talk to me about, this jobs come up, should I apply what you think?

01:36:31:17 - 01:36:45:23
David Panter
And it's that sort of notion that, well, hang on, make sure that you're in a in a job that you're going to be performing well in and not doing it just because it's the thing to take on the list that you think you should have done this job. You get the next one. Yeah. Because you won't get the next one anything unless you do this.

01:36:45:23 - 01:36:49:09
David Panter
Well, so thinking a bit more about that.

01:36:49:11 - 01:37:02:05
Daniel Franco
I love it. And last, before we jump into the quickfire, what excites you about the future of health care?

01:37:02:07 - 01:37:38:02
David Panter
And I'm not sure. I think for me, I do think that because of a whole range of factors, we are going to see a resurgence of that sort of community voice, that use of voice that is going to help shape where we go because the current arrangements can't continue. Fragmentation is just getting too many perverse outcomes and is going to inevitably, I think, lead to a cycle where we're back in that mode of having to think more clearly about what we're trying to do.

01:37:38:04 - 01:38:01:23
David Panter
And I do think that's potentially exciting. Yeah, and some of that may involve technology and other things, but, you know, as clever as I might get, as helpful, it might be I don't particularly believe that's going to replace that issue of the actual touch connection, but a process stuff it can deal with. Yeah, but the human connection I think still relies upon humans.

01:38:01:23 - 01:38:09:00
Daniel Franco
Absolutely. It's Maslow's hierarchy, Right? Quickfire. What are you reading right now?

01:38:09:02 - 01:38:34:05
David Panter
And I have just finished a I'm a crime reader. Yeah, but I'm date and I don't like and I think that gets described as cozy crime. So. So people like Vieira and Cleves book. Yeah. Yeah. Which is I mean there is wonderful television program, but the books are even better for me. It's, it's crime books which are set in a location as well because I like that sense of voice.

01:38:34:05 - 01:38:52:23
David Panter
Yeah. So there's some I've just finished the Chris Hammer one's set in Australia which I've been really good at. Right. So yes, so they and I, and I am an avid reader, I, I read every night before I go to bed I read is going to be traveling a lot and I go through probably at least a book a week.

01:38:53:02 - 01:38:53:15
David Panter
Yeah. Wow.

01:38:53:15 - 01:39:03:23
Daniel Franco
So smashing them out. Do you read much self-development books and or leadership or business books? And if you do, was is there any that sort of stood out for you over the years?

01:39:04:00 - 01:39:05:24
David Panter
And a simple answer is no.

01:39:06:01 - 01:39:06:14
Daniel Franco
No.

01:39:06:16 - 01:39:30:00
David Panter
I, I occasionally read a, an industry related book. So there's a book that came out a couple of years ago called Careless States, for example, which is an academic's book. And it's about whole issue about how in shifting to that corporate governance model to procurement models, we have taken care out of our system. Whether you're looking at childcare through to hospitals, etc..

01:39:30:00 - 01:39:44:04
David Panter
Yeah, so, so but no, I it's part of again, keeping that separation of work and yeah. Personal Yeah. Is I don't tend and yeah probably a bit cocky because of my psychology background that most of the.

01:39:44:06 - 01:39:51:07
Daniel Franco
Stuff is hogwash anyway. Yeah. What's one lesson that's taking you the longest to learn?

01:39:51:09 - 01:40:25:02
David Panter
And I think it is that issue about just being myself. I always thought I'd be being myself, but I know I then drift away and then something happens that brings me back to that. So it's so it's and I say I can see that in my career in terms of taking my earning certificate to a job and then being told that it's so it's that and also a learning early on, which I hope I haven't.

01:40:25:05 - 01:40:57:02
David Panter
I think I stopped replicating fairly early on is that classic thing about the team around you. Yeah. Part of the huge benefit had with Minda is because of that history and most of the senior team going, Yeah, I had to rebuild an entire new senior team and I'm very clear that I need a team around me that complements rather than being like me.

01:40:57:05 - 01:41:21:18
David Panter
Yeah. So I'm not operational detail. I need very good operational detail people. Yeah. And incredibly privileged that a number of my team now have worked with me in different roles in the past, over the last 20 years, and have chosen to come and work again with me as part of what we're trying to do at Minda. Beautiful. But that basic thing about don't appoint people because they're like you.

01:41:21:20 - 01:41:24:09
David Panter
Yeah, because that's probably the last thing you actually need.

01:41:24:10 - 01:41:31:20
Daniel Franco
Yeah, absolutely. If you can have coffee with one current or historical figure, who would it be? Probably not.

01:41:31:20 - 01:41:55:05
David Panter
Margaret Thatcher wouldn't be such a scholar. My life and I. I think that I would like to I think it's two different people. I guess. one is Quentin Crisp. So Quentin Crisp was a famous homosexual.

01:41:55:09 - 01:41:56:22
Daniel Franco
Okay.

01:41:56:24 - 01:42:19:19
David Panter
who struggled through all of the illegalities, etcetera, in the forties, in the fifties, in the UK came to prominence because he wrote a book in the late seventies, I think it was called The Naked Civil Servant that got turned into a TV drama. And he spent the latter years of his life living in New York. Yeah. it's just a fascinating individual.

01:42:19:19 - 01:42:20:23
Daniel Franco
Yeah.

01:42:21:00 - 01:42:28:11
David Panter
And then the other person, because they just, again have had a relationship on and off, given what I've been saying earlier on with Florence Nightingale.

01:42:28:16 - 01:42:29:19
Daniel Franco
Okay. Yeah.

01:42:29:21 - 01:42:57:15
David Panter
Because it's sort of I'm just intrigued as to what she was really like because there's so much mythology around who she was and and what she created and Yeah, and so actually it would be a three way because it would be her and Mary Seacole. And so Mary Seacole was around at the same time as Florence Nightingale, but was Afro-Caribbean okay And so got forgotten in the history books until relatively recently.

01:42:57:15 - 01:42:58:03
Daniel Franco
So until the.

01:42:58:03 - 01:42:58:17
David Panter
Last sort of thing.

01:42:58:17 - 01:43:04:14
Daniel Franco
That had as much impact. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. What's some of the best advice that you've ever received?

01:43:04:17 - 01:43:32:13
David Panter
Well, there's the bit about what's in the head rather truly is rather than it is. And the best advice that I know I've, I think I've already said it is this those amazing people that I've had the privilege of working with who said to me it put the earrings back. The same with Barbara Young when I turned up for that first proper job in health side of HIV and AIDS sent me home to change because I'd turned up in their suit.

01:43:32:15 - 01:43:33:04
David Panter
So just be.

01:43:33:04 - 01:43:33:12
Daniel Franco
You.

01:43:33:12 - 01:44:00:07
David Panter
Yes, I did that. And I think and the person who taught that general management course in 1987 that I went on I'm still friends with and, and he retired long ago, but he always then used his advice to me as the worst advice, which was the same thing is you won't get anywhere if you don't take those earrings and grow up.

01:44:00:08 - 01:44:03:21
Daniel Franco
Yeah, Okay. There you go. What's one habit that holds you back the most?

01:44:03:24 - 01:44:29:13
David Panter
And I think it is now probably because, again, what I was saying earlier about being professional, extrovert and introvert. I know that now I've got less tolerance for some of the additional non-work stuff. Yeah, I'm not I don't like going to social events just for the sake of you're in this set and you get invited along.

01:44:29:13 - 01:44:30:07
Daniel Franco
Yeah.

01:44:30:09 - 01:44:33:18
David Panter
To be part of that. Yeah. So I think that that's.

01:44:33:22 - 01:44:35:22
Daniel Franco
Saying no is better.

01:44:35:24 - 01:44:44:10
David Panter
Yeah. So I'm getting better at saying no. But equally I realize that for middle and the presence of mind is still.

01:44:44:13 - 01:44:49:00
Daniel Franco
Absolutely. Yeah. What's one of your biggest pet peeves?

01:44:49:04 - 01:45:27:16
David Panter
Well, just say and I, I understand the importance of this, but the if, if I could, it is a pet peeve because it really annoys me every day. But it is a big social issue and it's private education. Okay, I if I was dictator for the day, I would abolish all private education. I think that we're setting ourselves up to fail as a community in a society because we put kids separate paths from very early on and then it creates divisions.

01:45:27:18 - 01:45:30:16
David Panter
So I am anti education, okay?

01:45:30:18 - 01:45:31:14
Daniel Franco
My kids go to a private.

01:45:31:14 - 01:45:34:20
David Panter
School and I know and it's sad, but but.

01:45:34:20 - 01:45:57:03
Daniel Franco
You're right. It's part of my decision making is that they will hang their I went to a private school and the people in which I connected with are still in my life today and flourish that flourishing in their careers and I think it's one the network in which I am paying for more so than the schooling itself. And that's exactly what you said.

01:45:57:06 - 01:46:12:19
David Panter
And that's right. And I think that's it just then means that the the state schools thus get diminished because they don't have the diversity of the of the population. They don't have all those groups reflected necessarily within them.

01:46:12:21 - 01:46:14:01
Daniel Franco
So I've never really thought about.

01:46:14:01 - 01:46:34:10
David Panter
It like that. So that's my pet peeve. because then, because when you because from that that flows all of the unnecessary transport that happens every day that passes. Yeah. Because of people getting kids to schools on other sides of the city. Yeah. I live and.

01:46:34:12 - 01:46:35:17
Daniel Franco
Yeah absolutely.

01:46:35:21 - 01:46:38:02
David Panter
That's a lot of stuff.

01:46:38:04 - 01:46:44:04
Daniel Franco
Yeah. No doubt. No doubt. If you could pay someone to do one of your chores, what your would it be.

01:46:44:07 - 01:47:02:16
David Panter
I honestly don't have an answer to that. I do think because, because part of how I relax is doing some of that usual stuff. I mean that the person the thing I do I do pay somebody to do is to wash and I my shirts.

01:47:02:20 - 01:47:03:20
Daniel Franco
Are really.

01:47:03:22 - 01:47:05:08
David Panter
Easy but any other.

01:47:05:08 - 01:47:07:20
Daniel Franco
Washing on so you take them you just take them, drop them off.

01:47:07:20 - 01:47:14:20
David Panter
Somewhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Take them, drop them off and then get back a week later. Pick them up I don't possess. And so you've got.

01:47:14:20 - 01:47:18:13
Daniel Franco
Enough for two weeks and you just. Yeah.

01:47:18:15 - 01:47:24:13
David Panter
So but yeah, that's, that's the thing which I would. Whereas cutting the grass, I love painting.

01:47:24:18 - 01:47:25:13
Daniel Franco
Yeah it.

01:47:25:16 - 01:47:27:18
David Panter
Is because it's so different and.

01:47:27:20 - 01:47:29:19
Daniel Franco
Brain that.

01:47:29:21 - 01:47:31:17
David Panter
I can just do it with AirPods in and.

01:47:31:17 - 01:47:32:08
Daniel Franco
Absolutely.

01:47:32:09 - 01:47:36:07
David Panter
To podcasts or whatever. Yeah. Very happy doing that sort of. Yeah.

01:47:36:09 - 01:47:37:16
Daniel Franco
Crime podcasts as well.

01:47:37:18 - 01:47:43:08
David Panter
No no no I still a lot of BBC radio four programs. Yeah. Grew up.

01:47:43:08 - 01:47:45:03
Daniel Franco
With like.

01:47:45:05 - 01:47:54:14
David Panter
There's a long run, the longest running soap opera in the world I think it's called The Archers. I actually got on radio and started between the World Wars.

01:47:54:16 - 01:47:55:02
Daniel Franco
wow.

01:47:55:03 - 01:48:11:16
David Panter
And it's in a community. And originally it was about educational around farming and yeah, importance of food production in particular during the Second World War. And it's 15 minutes every day an omnibus edition on a Sunday for an hour and a half or whatever. Yeah. And so I listen to that religiously.

01:48:11:17 - 01:48:11:24
Daniel Franco
Yeah.

01:48:11:24 - 01:48:14:13
David Panter
Well and I have done for the last 40 years.

01:48:14:15 - 01:48:21:22
Daniel Franco
The very good. What's, what's the first thing you would do if you become invisible? If you look at.

01:48:21:23 - 01:48:24:19
David Panter
A way of education.

01:48:24:21 - 01:48:32:06
Daniel Franco
You what's the most useless talent that you have got?

01:48:32:08 - 01:48:41:13
David Panter
Useless talent laughs And I suppose not. Yes, I do think I've got a I've got a particular talent for baking, which is not.

01:48:41:15 - 01:48:42:01
Daniel Franco
Well, that's.

01:48:42:03 - 01:48:51:08
David Panter
Useful. That's useful because so that's one of my things. Yeah. I get a birthday cake on that I've made on their birthdays and I that's my best use.

01:48:51:10 - 01:48:55:12
Daniel Franco
I think you're good at everything. Everything you're.

01:48:55:14 - 01:49:02:11
David Panter
On. I can tell you one thing that I'm not good at, certainly. And you wouldn't want me for anything involving throwing a ball.

01:49:02:13 - 01:49:04:17
Daniel Franco
really? Sports? Not anything I.

01:49:04:17 - 01:49:09:15
David Panter
Have. No, I have no. I mean, I love soccer. Yeah, I watch a lot of soccer. Couldn't have a soccer.

01:49:09:15 - 01:49:10:05
Daniel Franco
Yeah, I.

01:49:10:07 - 01:49:27:01
David Panter
Have. No. Yeah, but I can't throw a ball. I can't play tennis. I just so. Yeah. So sulfate is so the sport of any sport I do is running. Yeah. I run nearly every day. Yeah. Right. But I can't do anything which involves the ball. It just doesn't work for me.

01:49:27:03 - 01:49:35:04
Daniel Franco
Beautiful. And commonly known as that joke. Right. What's your best joke again?

01:49:35:04 - 01:49:45:16
David Panter
I'm not a great joke teller. And the only joke in my repertoire is, is back to when I was a five year old, which is what did the and say It's the petrol pump.

01:49:45:18 - 01:49:47:21
Daniel Franco
What the the Martian said of the petrol pump.

01:49:47:23 - 01:49:51:14
David Panter
Get that finger out of your ear while I'm talking to you.

01:49:51:16 - 01:50:23:11
Daniel Franco
That's, that's horrible. And it's supposed to be, well beautiful. Thank you so much today for your time David. It's been, it's been in a great great and, amazing chat. You've had a pretty eventful journey. I think one thing that comes to my mind is one of the core values here. It's Energy IQ, which is great. You know, you've you've said you saw what you want to do and what you want to achieve and connected yourself to the purpose throughout your career, which is I mean, kudos to you and all that you've achieved and thank you for the work that you've done here in South Australia.

01:50:23:11 - 01:50:38:14
Daniel Franco
I know that you're going to continue doing some more great things over the next coming years and looking forward to seeing the strategy come out for your plans with me there and then what you plan on doing after that. I think we're all going to be watching in anticipation. So thank you very much for your time.

01:50:38:16 - 01:50:40:12
David Panter
Thank you. Been a real pleasure.

01:50:40:14 - 01:51:02:18
Daniel Franco
And that's it from us. Everyone, take care and we'll catch you next time. It's for listening to the podcast so you can check out the show notes if there was anything of interest to you and find out more about us at Synergy IQ dot com. So to you, I am going to ask though if you did like the podcast, you would absolutely mean the world to me if you could subscribe, write and review and if you didn't like it, that's alright too.

01:51:02:20 - 01:51:06:09
Daniel Franco
There's no to do anything. Thank you guys. All the best.