#109 - Christine Zeitz, CEO of Northrop Grumman Australia on The Journey of Australia's Top Defence Female CEO

Dive in as we unravel the journey of an absolute powerhouse, Christine Zeitz. Ever been the only one left standing? Christine was - overlooked in her uni days, only to shoot up as a beacon in the defense sector. If TOP GUN's fighter jets got your heart racing, know that Christine leads the charge at Northrop Grumman, the brand behind those beasts!

From 25 pivotal years at BAE to breaking ceilings as the first female CEO in Australia's top 40 defense giants – Christine's tale is nothing short of epic. And she's not just playing the defense game. She's in the boardroom, on the footy field, and lighting up platforms like the Advertiser's 2023 top 40.

Join us for a rollercoaster ride: We touch on everything from her early 'weirdo hippie' days to deep dives into the defense industry's future. And yes, if you loved the fighter jets in TOP GUN, she's got stories for you!

Tune in now and let Christine's story inspire your next big leap!

HIGHLIGHTS:

01:03: Christine's journey from being the only overlooked university graduate to becoming a defense titan.
07:45: Diving deep into her 25-year stint at BAE and what really anchored her to the company.
13:52: The exciting connection between Northrop Grumman and Hollywood's TOP GUN.
21:28: The transition challenges from Lockheed to Leidos and her strategies behind the whopping 100% growth in revenue.
29:15: Christine’s candid take on her "weirdo hippie" phase amidst the corporate world.
37:10: A close look at the dynamics of leading in a male-dominated defense industry and her vision for diversity.
44:25: Her role outside the defense circle - from football to economic development.
51:38: Insights into the rapidly evolving defense sector and the challenges that lie ahead for Australia.
59:04: Personal battles: How Christine manages emotions, fears, and mental health given the high stakes of her role.
01:05:20: Looking back, looking forward: Christine's advice for aspiring leaders and her views on the future, especially regarding AI.

Where to find Christine Zeitz

• LinkedIn
• Twitter

BOOKS MENTIONED IN THE PODCAST:

•  Don’t be too polite, Girls by Wendy McCarthy

Join the conversation on Synergy IQ on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram (@synergyiq).

Access SynergyIQ Website to get to know more about us. 

Say hello to our host Daniel Franco on LinkedIn.

Transcript

00:00:04:18 - 00:00:28:23
Daniel Franco
Hey everyone. And welcome back to another episode of the Creating Synergy Podcast. Today we have an absolute powerhouse in the studio, Christine Zeitz. From Humble beginnings and being the only person in a university degree to be overlooked for a role. Two going on to leading world renowned defense companies and managing billion dollar portfolios. Christine has been a force to be reckoned with in the defense sector.

00:00:29:03 - 00:01:10:10
Daniel Franco
Her career started with Global Defense Prime BAE, where she spent the first 25 years of a career moving up the ranks and to eventually landing senior leadership roles and executive roles at Lockheed Martin and led us to where she finds herself today as the CEO of Northrop Grumman Australia. For those who might not know much about Northrop Grumman, you may have seen on the Hollywood smash hit Top Gun, they use their fighter jets in that movie.

00:01:14:08 - 00:01:52:16
Daniel Franco
Back to Christine. She's not just a business leader. She's also a trailblazer. She's the first female CEO in the top 40 largest defense companies in Australia. And she was recognized as the advertiser's 2023 top 40 powerbrokers, where she was also nominated as the woman of the year. Furthermore, her influence isn't just confined to the defense sector, although she's the chair of the South Australian Defense Trailblazer program, she's also a board member and AFL women's committee member at the Port Adelaide Football Club and a board member at CEDA, the Committee for Economic Development Australia.

00:01:52:24 - 00:02:15:01
Daniel Franco
From early life to her illustrious career today, we'll deep dive into Christine's journey from a self-proclaimed widow hippie phase where she's trying to make it into a corporate world to the lessons that she's picked up from every setback and triumph all the way to her vision for the defense industry and she also shares her insights on the future and challenges and threats that face Australia in the coming years.

00:02:15:11 - 00:02:28:16
Daniel Franco
So without further ado, let's dive into our conversation with Christine Zeitz.  So welcome to the Creating Synergy Podcast. Today we have the amazing Christine Zeitz on the show. Welcome.

00:02:28:21 - 00:02:29:08
Christine Zeitz
Thank you.

00:02:29:25 - 00:02:56:12
Daniel Franco
So I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to do something a little bit different. I'm going to rattle off some statistics or even some of your career highlights. Probably is a better way of explaining or doing some research on this. Before this podcast, I was looking through your career and going, Holy hell, you put a lot of us to shame, so I'm going to just throw this out there.

00:02:56:14 - 00:03:15:09
Daniel Franco
You're a BAE, 25 years where you ended up as the president of North East Asia managing a portfolio of over 600 million. You're the vice president and managing director of Lockheed Martin with 700 staff and 300 million in revenue. Chief executive of Leidos, which spun out of Lockheed with just about a thousand staff and 430 million in revenue.

00:03:15:09 - 00:03:24:03
Daniel Franco
So you're currently the CEO of Northrop Grumman, which is about 800 staff. Northrop Grumman in Australia, I should say 800 staff and 100.

00:03:24:03 - 00:03:25:22
Christine Zeitz
And 3-30

00:03:25:22 - 00:03:28:07
Daniel Franco
30 million. Okay. I was looking I was trying to find out.

00:03:28:07 - 00:03:30:01
Christine Zeitz
Exactly how this that really.

00:03:30:27 - 00:03:57:28
Daniel Franco
First female CEO in one of the top largest 40 defense companies in Australia, the advertiser, 2023 top 40 Power broker, a nominee for the Advertiser 2023 Woman of the Year. In amongst all these, you are the chair, the defense trailblazer. You're in the AFL Football Women's Football Committee for Port Adelaide Football Club, Deputy Chair of the SBS Broadcasting Channel.

00:03:57:28 - 00:04:16:02
Daniel Franco
You've been the board member at CEDA. You've been a board member at Port Adelaide Football Club, board member of Defense Industry Capability. He's the board member of Department of Premier and Cabinet, trusted member of Adelaide Fringe and a council member of Flinders Uni. That is remarkable. You've done a.

00:04:16:02 - 00:04:18:03
Christine Zeitz
Lot. Well, I just seem old now.

00:04:19:12 - 00:04:41:03
Daniel Franco
That's only in the last four years. So kudos. I mean, that's an amazing career. I can see a bit of a head wobble going on the other side of the table. So to understand Christine and who Christine is an annual, what what do we need to know about your earliest context to understand the person that's sitting in front of us today?

00:04:41:21 - 00:05:08:04
Christine Zeitz
Well. Well, I'm an Adelaide girl and I guess I had an outlook from Young of wanting to be a businesswoman. I'm not sure I knew what that meant when I was in my teens. But I always wanted to do that and I felt like I could go forward and do it. So my parents were very supportive, although my father and mother, very traditional Greek relationships.

00:05:08:04 - 00:05:14:17
Christine Zeitz
So my mum didn't work. She worked with Dad in dad's business, but she was really a supporter of my father.

00:05:14:29 - 00:05:16:05
Daniel Franco
So what was the business?

00:05:16:10 - 00:05:38:09
Christine Zeitz
So he had a temping bowling wholesale. Oh, wow. Yes. And that was a labor of love. So he was an Australian champion, tenpin bowling and got a got a job in the Norwood Bowl. Yeah. When they used to have the pins that knocked down. And he had pinballs. Yeah. Guys that, that took them up again. Yeah. That was where he started.

00:05:38:13 - 00:06:01:24
Christine Zeitz
Wow. And then was a mechanic on dash and then Rose to manager of Norwood Bowl, then started importing products in his garage, then built a warehouse, then build his business. So really superb achievement and quadruple his age. Yeah, you started that probably when he was forties. Right. So before that, he was a champion ballroom dancer. Oh. And that's how he met my mum.

00:06:02:04 - 00:06:03:09
Daniel Franco
Who was also a dancer.

00:06:03:09 - 00:06:13:01
Christine Zeitz
When she was doing her debutante. Okay. When she was 18. And he was her teacher, the. There was so true. I mean, so this.

00:06:13:10 - 00:06:20:23
Daniel Franco
So very good. So. So I think from a younger years. Let's start there. I mean, who was Christine growing up?

00:06:21:04 - 00:06:42:25
Christine Zeitz
Yeah. You know what came to mind then was odd because I was always seemed to be in the minority at school. I went to the local Forbes primary school and probably the only Greek kid there, maybe one or two others born here was born here. My parents were born here about, oh, 100% Greek. All my grandparents are great.

00:06:42:25 - 00:06:44:11
Christine Zeitz
Yeah. So as you can see, I look.

00:06:44:15 - 00:06:57:04
Daniel Franco
Around and the cultures Greek culture is very strong. I know there's some Italian and I think they're very similar in, in the culture aspect, but Greeks always have probably that little bit of an edge on us when it comes to their culture.

00:06:57:18 - 00:07:21:08
Christine Zeitz
Well, I love the movie My Big Greek Wedding of it. It's it's really close to my heart. So there is a strong culture, is a beautiful culture, but it's different. And so I always felt a little bit different. I used to be guarded by my girlfriend, who's still my closest friend, who when anyone asked me where I was from, she used to defiantly get in front of me and say, She's from here.

00:07:23:15 - 00:07:47:21
Christine Zeitz
So it was kind of a first realization of that, almost singling out of a minority. And then as I moved on, being a woman in defense was a minority as well. So I've kind of always been a bit of an minority, which has some challenges, but also has some benefits because you stand out. Yeah. Yeah. And one of the things about moving forward in your career is you've got to be noticed.

00:07:47:21 - 00:07:51:02
Christine Zeitz
So absolute flip side. Yeah.

00:07:51:02 - 00:08:05:25
Daniel Franco
So, sticking with the the childhood, what was one of your most cherished memories in your formative years that sort of that you think maybe set you up for the person that you are today?

00:08:06:01 - 00:08:42:27
Christine Zeitz
Oh, that's an interesting question. I think from my formative years it would be my friendships. I think I, I really loved friendships. My girlfriends were very special to me. And that's probably a little bit different as well from the great culture of of Greeks and Greeks. non Greek. Yeah. Girlfriends. And there was some dynamic there with my father. We weren't allowed to have sleepovers and and and so when Dad traveled a lot and when he was away, Mum was much more lenient.

00:08:43:23 - 00:08:45:01
Christine Zeitz
There was a partnership there.

00:08:45:02 - 00:08:46:12
Daniel Franco
Looked forward to dad going away. Yeah.

00:08:46:17 - 00:09:11:20
Christine Zeitz
I think that's probably the memories this way that we used to navigate through my life around my father, which I think did really teach me some negotiations. Yeah, Awareness IQ, you know, when to ask, when to not read read to him and so I think memories from when I was young was that was that kind of navigation through the household and my father with my mother with my friends.

00:09:11:22 - 00:09:13:03
Christine Zeitz
Yeah yeah I love it.

00:09:14:08 - 00:09:28:24
Daniel Franco
So again and I'm I love these old the old school stories of growing up. I think for me, what was one memory that when you do look back like a random memory, that you do look back and it just makes you really smile.

00:09:28:24 - 00:09:32:16
Christine Zeitz
I was number one girl at Space Invaders.

00:09:32:20 - 00:09:33:06
Daniel Franco
I really.

00:09:33:19 - 00:09:34:24
Christine Zeitz
And my boyfriend.

00:09:34:24 - 00:09:35:24
Daniel Franco
At the arcade or.

00:09:36:00 - 00:09:50:02
Christine Zeitz
Just across the road from the school. There was a little arcade and Neil was my grade seven boyfriend and he was number one out of the boys. So we were a hot couple. I could kill anyone. There's another romance story. They go.

00:09:50:05 - 00:09:53:20
Daniel Franco
That is the best game ever. Bring back Space Invaders.

00:09:54:18 - 00:09:55:19
Christine Zeitz
So I'm quite competitive.

00:09:55:24 - 00:09:56:25
Daniel Franco
Yeah, that's.

00:09:57:13 - 00:10:00:05
Christine Zeitz
That's certainly pulled through from as a child.

00:10:00:07 - 00:10:19:27
Daniel Franco
Oh I mean it's it's held you in good stead in in a previous conversation. I'm going to throw this out there and you said the word odd before, so I'm going to kind of allude to this because I think it's what you what you you said growing up and you're trying to, you know, carve out a path in the corporate career.

00:10:19:29 - 00:10:27:27
Daniel Franco
You said that you are and I'm going to inverted comments here, a weirdo hippie is the word that you use. Can you elaborate on what a weirdo hippies.

00:10:28:23 - 00:10:52:27
Christine Zeitz
Well can be called many things. Another one would be a bit of a dag. So I went to uni from, uh, from my I think again, being that slightly odd person, you kind of play into that a bit more. And I was the girl that had, you know, unusual earrings, different earrings in different is I had long, very long, long hair.

00:10:53:09 - 00:10:55:28
Christine Zeitz
I used to wear happy pants and love.

00:10:55:28 - 00:10:56:07
Daniel Franco
The happy.

00:10:56:07 - 00:11:23:22
Christine Zeitz
Pants, which was actually one of mine during fact for my husband loved my happy pants. And I do my yoga pants. But no, so. But I used to wear them publicly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was very relaxed and a bit more way out and a bit more gregarious than than the classmates I had. So I studied economics, accounting, and, um, that's not the most vibrant.

00:11:23:22 - 00:11:34:25
Christine Zeitz
It wasn't drama and arts where probably I look like I fitted in, but it was economics, accounting and business. And so I was again stood out a little bit. Yeah.

00:11:35:22 - 00:11:49:05
Daniel Franco
So let's, let's get into that. So you, you go through high school and you get into uni in economics accounting. I remember you saying after you graduated you had some issues getting some jobs. Is that correct?

00:11:49:07 - 00:12:16:22
Christine Zeitz
I did. And this is where I smile now with young, talented people that are worrying about getting a job. I just share with them that you'll be fine. And I was the one different time. Then I went to Flinders Uni and that cohort was probably about 40 people. And in those days the big four at the time accounting firms came on campus prior to exams and interviewed individuals.

00:12:16:22 - 00:12:47:17
Christine Zeitz
So KPMG, BWC Yep, et cetera. Ernst & Young. And they put offers to people before the exam. So there was such a demand for this. Is the accounting straight? Yeah. And so everyone had their interviews and I this is my learning was very relaxed and and I thought I had like this converse a very relaxed and enjoyable kind of laughing conversation with the interviewers, thinking I got on very well and was just this was my first really hard fall.

00:12:48:03 - 00:13:13:17
Christine Zeitz
And everyone else in the course got an offer to sit me. Yeah. Wow. And that 39 Yes, yes. And that was, you know, incredibly embarrassing because my grades were as good as everyone else. So then it's like, well, what is this? And it's me clearly sitting out very different. So that was in I do remember having some tears still.

00:13:13:17 - 00:13:20:14
Christine Zeitz
I can see myself, you know, in the bed thinking, my, we're going to get a job, This is terrible. So it was really it would have been horrible. That was really hard.

00:13:20:14 - 00:13:28:18
Daniel Franco
And do you think looking back, it was like, you know, referring back to the wedo, he did you think it was just your, you know, the way you presented.

00:13:28:22 - 00:13:34:00
Christine Zeitz
Definitely two familiar to relaxed and dressed inappropriate.

00:13:34:00 - 00:13:39:14
Daniel Franco
They may want to I want to clean and Chris corporate didn't yeah.

00:13:39:19 - 00:14:01:27
Christine Zeitz
And look I, I I tell these stories sometimes because you know I do coach and mentor a lot of women and some women are struggling with the balance of you know I should be who I am. Yeah. And if the world doesn't like that, well, that's their problem. And I just try and I tell that story and just suggest that the world is as it is.

00:14:02:12 - 00:14:26:18
Christine Zeitz
Yeah. So there's a choice, you know, you kind of fit in and then proceed and, and get to a position where you can change some of the rules and some of the perceptions. Yeah, but, um, you know, I learned very quickly I guess that it seems to be I do reflect and change. And so I did go to an accountancy placement group.

00:14:26:20 - 00:14:52:01
Christine Zeitz
Yeah. And this is how I landed in defense because British Aerospace at the time, BAE Systems, British Aerospace had a graduate role. And I went to that, you know, totally different persona. Yeah, I had a gray suit and my hair was back in it. Platt earrings were out. I was extremely subdued and I got the job. Yeah.

00:14:52:01 - 00:15:02:16
Daniel Franco
Do you look back and think and even, you know, in regards to your command of the people you mentor encouraged you to look at that situation and think, Well, that's a shame. It's a shame that society is that way.

00:15:02:21 - 00:15:22:15
Christine Zeitz
It is a shame. But I but I think the you know, the tagline I say is life's not fair, you know, So you can either kind of sit there and so it shouldn't be. Why was that? You know, it's not fair. I am the same person. And I remember doing a speech once and afterwards a teacher had a table of girls.

00:15:23:04 - 00:15:42:09
Christine Zeitz
It was a women in leadership. Seated speech. Yeah. And she actually approached me after I told a bit of a story like that. So the lesson was you just have to do you do have to consider how to fit in and, and move up through the organizations and then effect change. And she was she did not like my message.

00:15:42:19 - 00:16:08:20
Christine Zeitz
And she said to me, I don't think this is a good message you're teaching these girls, but my position is, well, I can teach them to be themselves and and you can be yourself. But to be totally ignorant of the environment is not good. Coaching. Yeah. And so, you know, my coaching is you've got to understand the space you're going into and you may have to adjust yourself if you want to achieve.

00:16:09:06 - 00:16:09:12
Christine Zeitz
Yeah.

00:16:09:12 - 00:16:38:14
Daniel Franco
Oh yeah. Well I like your approach, I think because there's a part of me that wants to challenge you as well, right, that says, Whoa, you know, it seems unfair that someone would need to change because of the way society is, but then it's to your point, the best way to enact change is to get through the ranks, become a leader of that industry or sector or whatever it might be, and enact change that way, because there's no point going in with a sledgehammer approach.

00:16:38:14 - 00:16:39:13
Daniel Franco
It's just not going to work.

00:16:39:21 - 00:17:03:25
Christine Zeitz
Yeah, and look, this is a very personal, subjective topic. You know, different people will advise different ways, but but I've certainly found that I can be true to myself and modify. Yeah. A bit for the, you know, So. Okay, I wore a suit instead of happy pants. So I wear happy pants at home, you know, we're happy. You know, I dress quite casually to the football.

00:17:03:26 - 00:17:26:02
Christine Zeitz
Yes. So, you know, that's my space. Yeah. And so it just matters. But I have affected change. Being in the senior roles that you spoke about. CEOs. Yeah, those companies and my structural, systematic change to those organizations to allow women to progress. So it's the approach that I've taken. And, you know, I think I think it will change over time.

00:17:26:02 - 00:17:48:08
Daniel Franco
Yeah, I was going to ask, do you think it's right? Do you think it's different? Because obviously different now than where it was when you were you you were going through the ranks, but and is it I mean, every industry is different, right? So that entrepreneurial world that the arts and theater world, it's kind of what it whatever you want but this corporate world, it still does have a bit of that You've got to look and fit in.

00:17:48:10 - 00:18:07:06
Christine Zeitz
A little bit. But you know, what I'd say is today with the talent, you know that people are looking for the recognition of young people. I doubt I would think if I was on the campus and being interviewed, I think they would probably recruit me and have a bit of a discussion about, you know, perhaps in the workplace.

00:18:07:06 - 00:18:21:27
Christine Zeitz
Yeah, you might like to, yeah, modify a little bit. And I think that's shifted. I think people can be a little bit more tolerant. Yeah. Nowadays I agree. This is 35 years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Correct.

00:18:22:15 - 00:18:40:01
Daniel Franco
So, BAE or British Aerospace Opportunity presents itself was you know, you mentioned earlier that you wanted to get into the world of business. Was defense something that you had in mind or was it just sort of through opportunity that you landed in that industry?

00:18:40:08 - 00:19:07:15
Christine Zeitz
Absolutely. I was desperate for that job. Yeah. You know, to really put myself back on the standing, I thought with my peers, you know. So I got a job. Yeah. And it really wouldn't have mattered, I don't think, for me what that was. But going into the job and and working in the industry now, you know, through my career, I just absolutely love defense and security.

00:19:07:15 - 00:19:14:25
Christine Zeitz
I'm very passionate about it. And I'm just very happy that I started there and fell into it. Yeah.

00:19:15:13 - 00:19:17:13
Daniel Franco
Yeah. What do you love about it? Yeah.

00:19:17:25 - 00:20:01:29
Christine Zeitz
Well, I love that it's so meaningful. You know, I talk to our people in our company about our mission and purpose. You know, it is so meaningful what we do because we provide our defense force with capability to defend the nation. And, you know, I know some people feel uncomfortable with defense, but I would say that if everyone was like mindedness of we as a nation and our allies are I democratic freedom of personal speech rights, you know, and other countries are not, you know, these countries that are and, you know, suppress people's rights and and free speech and dictatorship.

00:20:02:04 - 00:20:19:07
Christine Zeitz
Yeah. And we do not want to fall into that place. Yeah, we have to we have to have a posture and a partnership that deters those those advocacies from them, from coming over and taking over.

00:20:19:08 - 00:20:41:14
Daniel Franco
Yeah, I, I think I do. I support you on that, on that theory. I think it's ignorant to think that we can walk around with our heads in the sand and everything's fine. I can just we just can't do that. So hence the reason for for defense. Do you want your family to be safe is the question that you've got to ask yourself?

00:20:41:14 - 00:20:58:16
Daniel Franco
Well, this is what we're trying to I think I struggle with not being in control of any of it or, you know, as this as a civilian. It's kind of like some of the decisions get made. I don't really know. Some might not be as transparent as I'd like or some might not be with the of highest integrity as I like.

00:20:58:16 - 00:20:59:26
Daniel Franco
But you know, yeah, that's.

00:20:59:26 - 00:21:22:00
Christine Zeitz
Life. I think that's fair. And, you know, I think being in the industry I have close up, you know, security clearance. I understand those decisions that public perhaps the public will look at and think, why on earth are we doing that? You know, so so I have an intimacy and an understanding, probably. Yeah. The benefits mean the support of that.

00:21:22:00 - 00:21:50:06
Christine Zeitz
Probably more. Yeah, but there's no doubt the the attacks certainly the cyber attacks are in a phenomenal level. You know, so these are these are reaching into our our corporates and our way of life, our infrastructure, you know, to continually try to take hold and still, you know, IP and all of those things. Yeah. So you know, the work that that ICRC does and is just phenomenal.

00:21:50:06 - 00:21:50:20
Christine Zeitz
Yeah.

00:21:50:21 - 00:22:04:15
Daniel Franco
I recently we did a podcast with Steven Marshall, the former premier Allied supporter. He's huge for online and true one on supporter.

00:22:04:15 - 00:22:09:00
Christine Zeitz
Like it's the ones I like he.

00:22:09:29 - 00:22:29:06
Daniel Franco
I asked him a question about when you go into office for the first time, what was the one thing that surprised you the most? And he and he said, Yeah, in the briefing. And he just basically said the amount of sobs. I did not realize the amount of cybersecurity attacks that were coming our way every single day. It was it was mind blowing.

00:22:30:20 - 00:22:46:00
Daniel Franco
We'll get into cybersecurity later and some of the things that happen around in defense. But I do want to continue on with your career and your your your advancement through your career to where we are today. So, BAE 25 years. What kept you there for so long?

00:22:46:04 - 00:23:09:23
Christine Zeitz
I know it was sometimes I tell young people I was somewhere for 25 years and it expression is just disbelief. Look, I was extremely fortunate. I don't think I stayed in one job longer than two years. Yeah. Okay. So every step I was asked to do another challenge, another, you know, it wasn't I didn't start thinking, I'm going to be here for 25 years, but I start as a graduate account.

00:23:09:23 - 00:23:29:11
Christine Zeitz
And very quickly I was moved into corporate accounting where I did audit and statutory, and then I was quickly moved into being the accountant for one of our divisions. And in those days BAE was I'm talking $80 million turnover. Yeah. When I left them they were 2 billion turnover. Yes. So, you know, it was very small.

00:23:29:16 - 00:23:30:04
Daniel Franco
You saw big.

00:23:30:04 - 00:23:55:29
Christine Zeitz
Growth. I saw big growth. So one of my little division that I was the accountant for next to the general manager was only $20 million turnover. It was one big project and I was the accountant, the payroll clerk, the accounts payable clerk, you know, accounts receivable. I just did. It was a great learning experience. I did that for two years and that was when I started to get exposed to the leadership team who were all male.

00:23:55:29 - 00:24:19:00
Christine Zeitz
Mm hmm. And some of the commentary around the table, you know, as I say, 30 years ago was was eye opening for me as a young woman, because there was commentary around particular discussion. I remember manufacturing manager was a woman and she had a child and came back and she was wanted to do an MBA, but she was pregnant with her second child.

00:24:19:12 - 00:24:41:20
Christine Zeitz
And the and I remember this very clearly, the discussion around the table was, well, gosh, I mean, she really needs to work out whether she wants to be a mother or a manager. And I was 23 or four thinking, oh, really? Okay. So I didn't realize I needed to trade it off. Yeah, is that how it works? And so it was very fundamental conversation.

00:24:41:20 - 00:25:15:04
Christine Zeitz
I remember and it was then I started to notice the difference of approach with women coming through to men and the systematic barriers, you know, the bias and we did not have the term unconscious bias in those days. So, so I started to appreciate that there was a difference. And when I came in and when I ran the payroll in corporate and so I was, you know, I could see salaries and then I could see that I was being paid much less than my counterparts.

00:25:15:04 - 00:25:20:12
Christine Zeitz
So there was a question to that. And so it was really interesting how I started to observe it. Yeah. And that is actually.

00:25:20:21 - 00:25:21:07
Daniel Franco
When you say.

00:25:21:07 - 00:25:21:29
Christine Zeitz
Difference, you.

00:25:21:29 - 00:25:26:10
Daniel Franco
Appreciated the difference and did you despise it as well?

00:25:26:21 - 00:25:52:27
Christine Zeitz
Yeah, I was not happy. Yeah. Um, and I remember talking to the leader of HR at that point and just said, you know, we're this is how it is. And she said, I mean, that is true. She said, well, Christine, she said, you know, to progress, you've got to be twice as good as the men. And she said, just as well you are the same during the time progressing.

00:25:52:27 - 00:25:57:05
Daniel Franco
But but I'm progressing. I'm twice as good as them, but I'm getting paid less than them.

00:25:57:05 - 00:25:57:28
Christine Zeitz
Yeah, yeah.

00:25:58:09 - 00:26:00:11
Daniel Franco
Yeah. That that's that's so unfair.

00:26:00:21 - 00:26:22:10
Christine Zeitz
So different. And it's it's interesting. Also the other observation that I had as I was working through was I had a very, I don't know really where it came from, but if I'm given a task, I'll get that deadline. And so being that accountant for the division, you had monthly reports that were due , you know, everything with came in quite late.

00:26:22:10 - 00:26:49:05
Christine Zeitz
So I've worked with two or three in the morning to get that reporting and, and I was surprised to see that others would be late. And so I started to see a distinguishing factor between my standard and actually quite surprisingly, maybe the majority. And so you had an edge, if you like, because you were doing your job, which I found extraordinary.

00:26:49:05 - 00:26:49:13
Christine Zeitz
Yeah.

00:26:50:08 - 00:26:51:05
Daniel Franco
So you're doing well, but.

00:26:51:05 - 00:26:51:25
Christine Zeitz
Still doing.

00:26:52:27 - 00:26:57:21
Daniel Franco
It doesn't make sense. We've been given a deadline of deliver to the deadline, and yet everyone's surprised by it.

00:26:57:26 - 00:27:12:22
Christine Zeitz
I know. And I remember, again, a meeting where the CEO said, you know, we just have to have these reports in on time because he was getting frustrated. And my general manager said he said no one's had their reports in on time. Actually, it was the finance director. And he said, well, actually Christine's had her reports in read it.

00:27:13:06 - 00:27:39:10
Christine Zeitz
And he said, well, she should be promoted. And I thought, really is that how it works? I just think it's so interesting as you come into an organization, I think it gets back to that, that navigation I have with my father at home, you know, I'm I'm continually watching, continually reading how decisions are made. You know, what matters, what doesn't matter, and and kind of move through that and perform.

00:27:39:18 - 00:28:01:06
Daniel Franco
It's funny how simple it is. We, as you know, were consulting firm and and do a lot in the change in change management space and culture space workforce space. We received some feedback like some great feedback the other day and the client came in and did a video testimonial and all the above. And and I said, I asked the question like, what?

00:28:01:06 - 00:28:08:03
Daniel Franco
You know, what separates Synergy IQ from, from the wrist? And he said, well, you, you do what you say you're going to do.

00:28:08:07 - 00:28:13:00
Christine Zeitz
It's good because it's that simple.

00:28:13:05 - 00:28:34:27
Daniel Franco
You do what you say you're going to do and and you're good people. You're pretty passionate about it. So it was yeah, it just it made me laugh because it's exactly right. There's so many people missing deadlines and missing and yeah, finding excuses as to why they can't do it. And so let's keep going. So you've you're starting to learn the system and you're starting to learn.

00:28:34:27 - 00:28:40:27
Daniel Franco
It's a little bit one sided throughout your career. So how did that look as you were you were moving up in your career?

00:28:41:21 - 00:29:07:06
Christine Zeitz
Yeah. So I was, you know, very, very privileged to have a couple of senior leaders that believed in me and had no kind of concern around female or male or anything like that. And they they they were phenomenal. As I look back, you know, took a risk. And when I moved, I actually resigned because it was a small business and I'd got to to doing the corporate accounting.

00:29:07:06 - 00:29:27:09
Christine Zeitz
The the division of accountants. I'd kind of done everything in five years. And so I said to the finance director, you know, I think I need to go somewhere else and expand because I can't be the finance director because I'm, you know, too young. I understood that. And they said to me, well, is it the company or is it the role?

00:29:27:09 - 00:29:58:15
Christine Zeitz
And I said, No, no, it's my it's my role. And they said, Well, let's move you. And they move me into what we call commercial. So pricing. So when we quote and you price and then that's where my next probably 15 years was in the whole space of risk management. The price you quote with the risk, with the procurement, the supply chain matching all of those contracts off making sure we've got a good deal while the engineering team in the project team derive the solution.

00:29:58:16 - 00:30:29:21
Christine Zeitz
Yeah, So I did the commercial part. Yeah, right. And, and I just went from kind of a small, you know, $8 million bid to the bigger to the bigger to the bigger, you know. And then you're in the kind of 300 million. Yeah. Well a million bids. And so through that time we had uh, you know, I just had great sponsorship from my boss in that area that sent me across to the Middle East, you know, 26 Yeah, well, to negotiate our military vehicle contracts, which was about $25 million.

00:30:29:26 - 00:31:00:24
Christine Zeitz
Was that the two way? That was quite. Yeah. And that was just such an extraordinary experience, especially because the organization we sold the vehicles to did not allow women on their premises. So it was and since then I have worked in in the Middle East, I've worked in Japan. I led the office in Japan, who also have a, you know, a view that women, you know, probably don't really belong in the workplace.

00:31:01:18 - 00:31:23:21
Christine Zeitz
There's shifting in Japan, but there's still, you know, very hierarchical, even even today, very even today. I would say that it's not common for a woman to progress through and men to work for women, a Japanese woman. And so, you know, in the eighties to now, of course, would not have a woman that they report to.

00:31:23:21 - 00:31:35:12
Daniel Franco
So I think the same if like from their country that understanding their culture a little bit you can see it. But from a Western point of view do they do they view Western women the same.

00:31:35:21 - 00:31:59:25
Christine Zeitz
Or they don't? And that's what I've learned. So you can do business in those places as a Western woman because they respect that you are from that company, and that company has given you the authority to come and meet with them. Yeah. So in Kuwait, what was and but I was a little bit like a novelty. Yeah. Because I was in the room, you know, there were no female bathrooms because females weren't allowed on the premises.

00:31:59:25 - 00:32:24:00
Christine Zeitz
So, you know, it was all a little bit different. Wow. And a little bit uncomfortable. But through that, you grow and you know, that experience for me still was stand out kind of thrown in the deep pain. Did they treat you well? Yeah, they do. A little bit of fun. Was it was Mr.. Mr.. Uh, the gentleman's I was with Mr. Guy.

00:32:24:00 - 00:32:43:06
Christine Zeitz
Was Mr. Daly, Mr.. And Ms.. Christine. And I think they had quite a bit of it was no novelty. Yeah, it was. But we did the do we sold the vehicles and, um, you know, I learned a lot and then came back. So it was just, it was always very interesting work. And, you know, I did some work in Indonesia.

00:32:43:20 - 00:33:00:24
Christine Zeitz
Um, I, I moved across different areas of the business. I went off to England, um, to work at head office for two years just after I had my first daughter. And that was, again, the sponsorship actually had you. McDow On the podcast.

00:33:00:26 - 00:33:02:16
Daniel Franco
I have had. Jim Yeah.

00:33:02:18 - 00:33:20:15
Christine Zeitz
So Mr. Jim's a great guy and he was my boss for five years and, and really could not see a reason why I couldn't go to England even though I was trying to have a baby, which I still remember his, his comment to me when I said, Look, Jim, you know, I don't know that it's the right time for me to go to England.

00:33:21:13 - 00:33:41:20
Christine Zeitz
And I told him very privately. So I was about 30, you know, I'm trying for a baby. And he said, Oh, he said, the last time I heard, you can conceive in London. And it was just this response. And I thought, you know, I was he kind of narrowing down to how could I possibly work with a newborn in another country?

00:33:42:07 - 00:33:59:12
Christine Zeitz
And he just nailed it with, yeah, what's the problem? Yeah, it's work it out. Yeah. And so I loved him. We did. And so I managed to go I did fall pregnant, had Jesse 21 years ago, and then we went across to England with Jesse at six months.

00:33:59:16 - 00:34:02:08
Daniel Franco
Beautiful. And we're just one child.

00:34:02:25 - 00:34:04:13
Christine Zeitz
And I came back pregnant.

00:34:04:18 - 00:34:05:02
Daniel Franco
Oh, very.

00:34:05:02 - 00:34:08:00
Christine Zeitz
Good. With Charlie, who's 18.

00:34:08:00 - 00:34:08:19
Daniel Franco
Fantastic.

00:34:08:20 - 00:34:08:27
Christine Zeitz
Yeah.

00:34:10:03 - 00:34:35:04
Daniel Franco
I've always interested in the in the whole traveling the world part for defense and, you know, and using the story and for, for back lack sorry, lack of better terminology, creating weapons or something for another country which potentially. Yeah. You know, I mean who knows or I don't know they're allies but if potentially could be used back against us.

00:34:35:04 - 00:34:36:05
Daniel Franco
How did that sit with you?

00:34:36:14 - 00:35:07:13
Christine Zeitz
Well, it's all very, very it's extremely well regulated. Okay. So you have governments have an end user agreement for defense articles. So you can't sell defense articles, products, technology to certain countries. Okay. And it's quite restricted. So it is also tries to, you know, perhaps in relation to that countries is country so we're not going well I used to watch that country Yeah okay so it's.

00:35:07:13 - 00:35:07:24
Daniel Franco
Kind of.

00:35:07:24 - 00:35:29:26
Christine Zeitz
Like a Yeah very much the trial. Yeah, very much a trial. So when I was in North East Asia, it was mainly a US business that I was facilitating products into Asia and we did not do business in China because we're not allowed to UK. So we certainly did with South Korea, who's an ally, Japan, not North Korea.

00:35:30:06 - 00:35:32:27
Christine Zeitz
Yeah. So it's very, very prescribed. Yeah. Okay.

00:35:33:20 - 00:35:43:25
Daniel Franco
Very interesting, very interesting. So, so now we're, we're in the, in a role in in BAE over in Tokyo. Is that where you ended up before.

00:35:44:07 - 00:36:13:09
Christine Zeitz
Yeah. Yeah. I think just before that when I came back pregnant with Charlie, that was another time that we broke the mold of the normal systems and processes in a business that are that are biased just because they are. Yeah, it's because the majority of the population were women and so when I came back, I had been on the leadership team of the CIA for ten years and I came back and wanted to work part time.

00:36:13:09 - 00:36:31:15
Christine Zeitz
So I worked three days when I had my second child. I worked three days for three years and it was like, Oh my gosh, what do we do with Christine? You know, because the only part time had been for administrate Asian people. And so now you've got a senior director, ex commercial director of the company wanting to work three days.

00:36:31:15 - 00:36:54:14
Christine Zeitz
And this is where Jim came in again. Yeah. And Jim just said, we're going to help carry on and freight on that large tender. So I went and worked and we got to the point where I ran the commercial side of this was an $800 million tender bid three days a week, and we just did it by restructuring the team.

00:36:54:14 - 00:37:14:09
Christine Zeitz
I had a I had a deputy that was there five days and I had an arrangement where I was physically there. This is before COVID and work from home. And yes, this is 18 years ago and I had an arrangement where I was paid three and a half days, I was there for three, and that half just carried me through to do work when needed.

00:37:14:09 - 00:37:29:04
Christine Zeitz
But it was just a great example of crashing the barrier. And yeah, I said fabulous. And and this is when again, you're in a position where you can do it rather than coming in without the influence to do. Yeah. To ratchet down. So what.

00:37:29:04 - 00:37:32:21
Daniel Franco
Would have looked like if you weren't in a leadership role in those days.

00:37:35:02 - 00:37:53:29
Christine Zeitz
Coming back part time? I don't think they would have done it. No, You wouldn't have been able to work on that beat. Yeah, that time. And I have a lovely story of a gentleman who who smiles at me when I tell it and I tell him I tell these stories. He was the campaign manager and he was scheduling the campaign reviews for Fridays.

00:37:53:29 - 00:38:10:04
Christine Zeitz
And I didn't work on a Friday. And I remember the conversation very clearly where I said, you know, Martin, I can we please have the campaign meetings on a Wednesday? And he said, well, you might be working part time, Christine, but the bit is not part time. And I said, oh, okay, we've got a bit of a problem.

00:38:10:14 - 00:38:13:07
Christine Zeitz
Yes, I you know, I knew from the report of yours.

00:38:13:10 - 00:38:14:06
Daniel Franco
Was that he.

00:38:14:08 - 00:38:26:03
Christine Zeitz
Said, yeah, okay. And so we we worked through that. And now he's an absolute advocate of flexible working. Yeah, yes, it's that mindset. But we you know what you know.

00:38:26:03 - 00:38:28:03
Daniel Franco
Right. And that the time that's all they need.

00:38:28:20 - 00:38:48:25
Christine Zeitz
And in the way in which you have that conversation is so important and. I've learned from my kind of bashing down things to understanding where they're coming from and what's your concern and how can we work this? Yeah, but the other thing that we changed was when I became part time one of the rules where you had to come off the high potential list.

00:38:49:07 - 00:39:07:27
Christine Zeitz
So most companies have a talent. Yeah. List. And for talent they, they do things training more, give you more access, give you a mentor for these things. And again, I remember Jim coming in and saying, Christine, you have to come off the talent list. I said, Why? And he said, Because you're part time. I said, Well, how did I lose my potential?

00:39:07:27 - 00:39:14:25
Christine Zeitz
Because I'm So he goes, I know it's stupid. And then we went and changed it.

00:39:14:25 - 00:39:21:18
Daniel Franco
I'm good. Lacy was it's good to hear that Jim was open to that and was big part of of changing the mold.

00:39:21:23 - 00:39:22:01
Christine Zeitz
Yeah.

00:39:23:04 - 00:39:40:10
Daniel Franco
I'm interested in the way you said you had the conversations. I think when you dealt with the situation and we see it time and time again. We used the word sledgehammer before, but it yeah, the initial reaction is just a bought backing. Oh, hang on, that's unfair. And this scream of righteousness and injustice and whatever it might be.

00:39:40:10 - 00:39:48:04
Daniel Franco
But your approach now is, is is it is it to hold and stay calm And then so can you explain how you would go.

00:39:48:04 - 00:40:12:04
Christine Zeitz
About that that is so different to to me, that's a real skew I've had to work on and develop. And a little bit again with with Jim had a big influence on me. He used to tell me quite often, actually, I'm not always right. And so I was very confident, probably quite clever. Yeah. And so I would dissect information very quickly and come to a conclusion, but it was only the information that I had.

00:40:13:03 - 00:40:30:20
Christine Zeitz
And so point was really you might think you're right, but other people have got views and there might be other information. You've got to bring that in. And so I kind of went from a I'm right and quite determined in my view. And if people had different views, I was quite frustrated. And so.

00:40:30:29 - 00:40:31:13
Daniel Franco
They're never.

00:40:31:13 - 00:40:53:04
Christine Zeitz
As good as are you. You know, it's it's just, oh, my gosh. And so this has been a continue in my 3060 diagnosis. Yeah. He's always been through think would listen to me more take into consideration others again but the edginess on that is kind of come down on these you still shows up. Yeah even for the one I did probably two years ago.

00:40:53:04 - 00:41:12:28
Christine Zeitz
Yeah. So I continually work on it as we all have to work on. You know, it's natural things, but now I feel I'm better at my first gut reaction is, you know, if someone says something that I just think is short sighted and ignorant and, you know, I'll I'm better at just thinking, okay, well, let's just explore why that.

00:41:12:28 - 00:41:30:18
Christine Zeitz
Yeah, let's start with that. And this often from a personal experience, we can't have that job part time. Okay, let's explore why. And when you find out that I had a bad experience with another staff member a few years ago, you know, you say, well, what if we, you know, tried it for three months? What? Okay.

00:41:30:22 - 00:41:33:26
Daniel Franco
Why do you think it's so hard to slow down? I mean.

00:41:33:26 - 00:41:34:01
Christine Zeitz
Because.

00:41:34:05 - 00:41:50:00
Daniel Franco
Yes, you know, that's kind of what we're doing, isn't it? Because the answer is like, that's bullshit. Let's get on with it and come on, we need outcomes and results. But the skill set is actually to slow down. And why is it so difficult to slow down?

00:41:50:06 - 00:42:19:04
Christine Zeitz
I know. And you know, I see colleagues of mine that actually are quite natural at slow down. I think they're more reflective mindsets. Yeah, I'm extremely quick, you know, to a decision. Yeah. And, and I know you know you learn everyone's different and members of my team now some of them you know I don't have the conversation you know Daniel these are the three things I think we should do.

00:42:19:09 - 00:42:41:11
Christine Zeitz
What do you think You know, with those people I say, can you? These are the three things. This is what I think. Think about it overnight and come back tomorrow and tell me what you think, because I know they need to. It's it's a process and consider and yeah. And it's actually a strength. You know I have a strength to it in the balance and back to diversity division team diversity of thought.

00:42:41:22 - 00:42:56:22
Christine Zeitz
You know I think it's really compelling when you have both types of thinking in your team. But I've learned to understand that not everyone is mind works like yours. So I think you probably are a bit like me. So you find it hard. Yeah. Whereas some people don't, they just.

00:42:56:25 - 00:43:12:24
Daniel Franco
Happy to. Yeah. I'm kind of like you. I think one of my key strengths is I can see. I can see where it's going to go in and where it's going to end up. I mean, just Yeah, and it just makes logical sense. Can we just make the decision now? But like, why are we like, why do we need to wait a week for it?

00:43:12:24 - 00:43:29:22
Daniel Franco
Doesn't make sense. But yeah, I know I'm, I'm, I'm grappling with that. I reckon I'm, I'm You say you've learned that skill. I mean I'm learning that skills. Okay. So where are we now, Lockheed.

00:43:30:04 - 00:44:07:13
Christine Zeitz
Yes. So I left back and I left because I wanted to be a CEO. Yeah. And this is some more coaching that I say to people. This you really want and have an ambition for something and you think you can do it. You know, I meant that I left an organization after 25 years that I loved and really invested a lot in May, and I worked very hard for it and then came to the conclusion that they at that point they changed later, but they continued to want to put a British person into the Australian business, which is absolutely, you know, their prerogative.

00:44:07:13 - 00:44:28:20
Christine Zeitz
But so I did not come back to Australia. I left from Tokyo and I went for an interview for Lockheed Martin and I ended up being employed running a line of their business. Um, and about two weeks before I started, they called me and said, oh, so you know, Christine, the line of business you're running, we're going to sell.

00:44:29:16 - 00:44:57:26
Christine Zeitz
So I did not really ever become a strong part of Lockheed Martin. We were kind of bookmarked and on the market and waiting to see we acquired us. Yeah. But in that time I pulled together a strategy and thankfully Leidos, who acquired us, had a very aligned business intent, and I only had about 30 people in Melbourne and we were 800 people from Lockheed to Leidos.

00:44:58:16 - 00:45:00:13
Christine Zeitz
So you can tell three people. 800?

00:45:00:17 - 00:45:04:06
Daniel Franco
Yeah. There's a lot of us globally was much bigger than Yeah.

00:45:04:06 - 00:45:15:02
Christine Zeitz
Yes. The whole line of business was sold was about a 7.6 billion line of business that Lockheed sold to Leidos. And with that money, Lockheed Martin bought Sikorsky helicopters. Okay. Yeah.

00:45:15:07 - 00:45:23:10
Daniel Franco
So I think what I'm getting at here is how does a company of 30 people buy a company of 100? Obviously, globally.

00:45:23:10 - 00:45:24:05
Christine Zeitz
It was huge.

00:45:24:05 - 00:45:24:27
Daniel Franco
It was huge. Yeah.

00:45:25:02 - 00:45:46:21
Christine Zeitz
And globally it was 5050. Yeah. So they were merging. A 5050 business proved some challenges for me because I was not merging. So all of the guidelines of the merger where you will put the roles out equally between Leidos and Lockheed staff. Yeah. And, and I had a management team from my line of business that moved over to be my management team for the company.

00:45:46:21 - 00:46:07:11
Christine Zeitz
And that was saying you have to open up roles for the leaders of a 30 group of 30 in Melbourne. So some of that we had to work through again, you know, no reaction. Yeah, okay, let's just talk this through. Yeah, it doesn't really make sense. The math doesn't work right? And you know, we worked through it and so my leadership team moved across the whole business.

00:46:07:16 - 00:46:12:01
Daniel Franco
What was that like, that transformation moving across to another business, New brand?

00:46:12:05 - 00:46:33:16
Christine Zeitz
Yeah, it was really, I mean, honestly fantastic experience because Leidos and even now, look, defense companies aren't well known and big, you know, and now because of the ships, they bring the ships. They have a big presence in South Australia. When I worked there, no one knew who I was. And some of Boeing is known, of course, for the commercial aircraft.

00:46:33:16 - 00:46:59:11
Christine Zeitz
Yeah, Lockheed Martin's probably known because it's the biggest. Yeah, but even Northrop Grumman who's, you know, top five in the world, number one in space, a lot of the public don't know the brands. So Leidos was not only not known in the community, but it wasn't even known in defense because it was a new player. So we had a lot to do to get the brand known to our customer.

00:47:00:00 - 00:47:06:14
Christine Zeitz
The model new company. We had to entice people to stay, you know, into this new company.

00:47:06:28 - 00:47:21:17
Daniel Franco
And how did they feel about, I mean, moving what you said and all know is Lockheed Brand is really strong and the biggest to a company, which I mean Leidos. Who's Leidos? Yeah, I know. No disrespect, but I think.

00:47:21:17 - 00:47:22:15
Christine Zeitz
Absolutely.

00:47:22:16 - 00:47:28:04
Daniel Franco
When you put it against Lockheed, it's it's it's it's in a different realm from a naming and branding point.

00:47:28:21 - 00:47:49:13
Christine Zeitz
And when you said no, no offense is the point, you've got to be realistic about it. It's not just shirking and hiding the fact that Lockheed is a very strong brand, wasn't it? So, yeah, you know, we had to understand how and they put our strategy around them. So we really we really worked hard on what this new company would be.

00:47:49:26 - 00:48:23:09
Christine Zeitz
It is a new company. We can define everything we can. Lockheed is a legacy company if you like. It's, you know, it's really embedded. So we had to find a narrative that attracted people. Now, some people never got over it, you know, small proportion. Yeah. And nothing wrong with that. You know, they wanted to work at Lockheed or a brand and moved, but we held pretty good retention and great with the new organization and built a nice culture actually, I just saw that Leidos just was voted number one for the graduate program.

00:48:23:09 - 00:48:43:04
Christine Zeitz
There you go. And it is fantastic because we put a lot of effort into that and the team have continued so. So but you know, we came off Lockheed Systems in one year, so we had to change because we were 800 on Lockheed and 30 that 30 weren't using the Leidos systems. So in the US it was a 5050 half.

00:48:43:04 - 00:49:09:03
Christine Zeitz
The business was on a lot of systems from Lockheed, so they had a very large portion of people that understood the lot of systems. But we changed in Australia every business system that we operated on in a year to a new system and that was very hard. So we did some great things, you know, establish the business, did the transition, retain the people, won new contracts.

00:49:09:03 - 00:49:13:24
Christine Zeitz
Um, so I think we grew started with 800. When I left it was about 1200 people.

00:49:14:22 - 00:49:43:01
Daniel Franco
That's amazing. Oh, I do want to sort of pick on the transition stuff, if you like. We like change, right? So and, and I, I'm going to connect this with your LinkedIn profile, which actually says, like you're an expert in in strategy, leadership and change management. Right? So as a as a role or as your role as a CEO, I mean, what do you what do you look at when you when you're going and embarking on change?

00:49:43:01 - 00:49:51:15
Daniel Franco
I mean, we as you know, we work a lot in that space and put in place a lot of importance and change and the management of change.

00:49:51:15 - 00:49:51:23
Christine Zeitz
Yeah.

00:49:52:21 - 00:49:53:28
Daniel Franco
What is your thoughts on that?

00:49:53:29 - 00:50:23:01
Christine Zeitz
Yeah, I'm so Leidos was my first real leadership role in that significant change When I finished there and went to Northrop Eyes wide open, we had to do the same thing, not the same thing. We had to do fundamental transformation business. And so I had a lot more confidence and so, number one absolutely is determining the strategy and the vision.

00:50:23:15 - 00:50:47:18
Christine Zeitz
And we have a strategy on a page. Yeah, we are extremely consistent. It's three key goals and we speak to those goals all the time. And we with every so we've this is my third year of the strategy for Northrop Grumman. And you know, when we win a program, we announce it in relation to the strategy, right. You know when we so you're.

00:50:47:18 - 00:50:49:00
Daniel Franco
Providing context to what you're doing.

00:50:49:00 - 00:51:12:20
Christine Zeitz
Wise When we put a new system in place, we relate it to the strategy. Right. And the strategies. I love the McKinsey three Horizons models, and it's very basic strategy on a page three Horizon. So it helps people understand the context of change. Yep. And I think it helps people understand that we can't do everything at once. That's why I really like the three horizons and Horizon.

00:51:12:20 - 00:51:36:15
Christine Zeitz
One is our ruthless prioritization. So it just I think when people might have a different view as to how you've prioritized in that first horizon one, they can get some comfort that perhaps what they think is very is in Horizon two. Yeah. So I think that really matters. So Horizons and then the third chart is your scorecard, which is your current year objectives.

00:51:36:15 - 00:51:58:21
Christine Zeitz
And we report those, we review them as a management team every month and they are the horizon one objectives they have owners have a time frame and we publish them to our people every quarter to say how we going and at our town halls we talk to that. Yeah. So consistency, consistency, consistency, communication. Yeah, yeah.

00:52:00:06 - 00:52:27:03
Daniel Franco
When you are I think when you're embarking on this logical transformation, um, what do you focus on as a leader, Like, as, as in your role? I mean, you as a leader cannot execute, correct? Right. So I'm interested in your role within the transformation and your expectations of others within within that transformation.

00:52:27:18 - 00:52:59:23
Christine Zeitz
And so our structure is called the Australian Leadership Team. So there's nine of us on the top team if you like. Yeah, the 65 in the senior leader team reporting to that group. So my role has been number one, to have harmony, cohesion and alignment in the top team. So it's my responsibility completely. And that top team is bought into the strategy, the three horizons and the next step is to have the senior leaders buy into it.

00:52:59:23 - 00:53:25:27
Christine Zeitz
So the first year the ten people did the strategy, three rise in the scorecard? Yep, because we had to do it quickly. The next year we prepared a draft and at our offsite with the 65 leaders, they had the opportunity to comment. You know, just share with us why we got that priority wrong. And this one was more important and we really took that information in and we adjusted the plan.

00:53:26:11 - 00:53:43:24
Christine Zeitz
So now in the second year, which was last year, the plan was prepared by 75 leaders, not ten leaders. And so we also introduced last year to scorecards for the two lines of business. And so it is kind of coming downwards. Yeah, So that's.

00:53:43:26 - 00:53:45:09
Daniel Franco
You're building the maturity as.

00:53:45:14 - 00:54:17:11
Christine Zeitz
Maturity. And my role is also to in the town halls with all staff is to remind them of that connectivity, remind them of the priorities and proof points of it's working. You know, I think people get tired if you promises always you know, down the road. Yeah. And so, you know, that's why it's so important when we win programs or we execute change systems, you know, we enhance the business that we're celebrating it, talking about it and linking it back.

00:54:17:11 - 00:54:23:17
Christine Zeitz
So that's, that's my role to make sure that cohesive story narrative is very, very clear.

00:54:25:01 - 00:54:57:04
Daniel Franco
I love it in in the defense industry, culture is well, actually, this is not here. Culture is an outcome, right? Yes, culture is a lagging indicator. It's about what's happened or what's happening at the current state. And we know that the defense industry is a high stakes industry. There's a lot on the line. It's pretty cutthroat what? But but yet there are so many different types of cultures within.

00:54:57:04 - 00:55:09:24
Daniel Franco
It's is high performing. There's growth and development, like all these different types of cultures. What is one that you subscribe to? What is a culture that you're trying to build and how much emphasis do you place on it?

00:55:10:02 - 00:55:47:23
Christine Zeitz
Yeah, and there's a couple of things. I think there's values that underpin a culture. So integrity, we do what we do and actually I love Northrop Grumman's we do what we promise. Yeah, what a great yeah, yeah. We commit to shared success. We do the right thing and we pioneer the, you know, the innovation and the values. So the culture is underpinned and this is, you know, what I would say I bring and, and it's a small industry, so you can't really get away with being cut.

00:55:47:23 - 00:56:19:00
Christine Zeitz
Hide, can hide and so I would like to think my reputation is of I do what I say you can trust me is integrity partnership with my peers in industry, you know, And so that underpinning value is very important to the to, to fading to the culture and then the culture that we see is, you know, there's something around defense that has a high level of regulation in everything we do.

00:56:19:15 - 00:56:48:11
Christine Zeitz
We cannot be frivolous. Yeah, we can't take risks. You know, we've got standard specifications we've got to make to have cyber security. But security wrapped around our products and our solutions. You know, it's audited, accredited. You know, it's so heavily regulated, which is why some small businesses just can't actually participate. Yeah. Is so high. So it's so if you say, okay, we are highly regulated, then how do we get the agile in that regulated environment?

00:56:48:11 - 00:57:20:10
Christine Zeitz
And that's what we I think that's what we're about is that we've got the background of the Northrop Grumman and the defense and the, you know, really a kind of long standing, reliable with a new team. So we're a new business, You know, we're like a a stand out with a a startup with a with a large program and a global powerhouse.

00:57:20:10 - 00:57:31:05
Christine Zeitz
But in the last three years, we've really reset the culture of the Australian business. Right? And that's attractive and exciting for a lot of people. Yeah.

00:57:31:26 - 00:57:41:21
Daniel Franco
Has to be. I mean, with workforce shortages in defense, industry attraction and retention would be one of the key things on your mind right now, wouldn't it?

00:57:41:22 - 00:57:42:27
Christine Zeitz
Definitely. Yeah.

00:57:43:18 - 00:58:15:13
Daniel Franco
And there's this theme, right? I've got this idea that if you, if you're attracting people because you're able to pay by you and you attract them through paying more, I've kind of got this theory that it's it's a poor culture tax right? Because you have to attract someone with money as opposed to with the idea of being a employer of choice and someone who or an organization that actually is just doing amazing work and treats their people well and is flexible and all the above, that goes with an employee employee value proposition.

00:58:15:13 - 00:58:27:06
Daniel Franco
Yes, money is just one aspect of that. What are you and Northrop Grumman doing in regards to that? And how do we attract some great minds, great people, great talent, and how do we keep them?

00:58:27:07 - 00:58:50:27
Christine Zeitz
Yeah, and we did. One of the first things we kicked off I kicked off when we did our strategy, our first balanced scorecard objective on the paper was develop the employee value proposition. This is your site. So what can we offer you? You know, and it is really important work we do is an attraction for people purpose. Yeah, we do have the flexibility.

00:58:51:16 - 00:59:29:12
Christine Zeitz
We do have a tagline, which is more than a tagline at Northrop at defining your possible. Hmm. So we really would like people and in our newsletter every fortnight we have a story about a career movement in Northrop's a way we very much again representing and then backing up with proof points that we allow people to move across the business and and are able to develop their career and, and you know, the linkage to being part of the incredible global company that makes the James Webb Telescope, the sixth generation aircraft, is attractive as well.

00:59:29:12 - 00:59:43:19
Christine Zeitz
So we built that in and the salaries got to be around the mark. Yeah. Oh, no doubt, as you say. But to just push that right out is not a long term viable arrangement. So that's our that's our EVP.

00:59:45:28 - 01:00:10:14
Daniel Franco
Can we touch on the workforce shortages within, within the defense age. I mean there's workforce shortages everywhere and the current state there is this cash grab and whatever. That's kind of eased a bit from what we, what we've seen and understand. But the, the industry itself in Australia I'm speaking specifically serves one client.

01:00:10:21 - 01:00:11:04
Christine Zeitz
Yes.

01:00:11:23 - 01:00:30:02
Daniel Franco
But yet we're stealing each other. We're stealing resources from from each other and you know, it's a little bit inbred in some ways that, you know, people are going from such and such and such and such. Is there is there not a way in which we can solve this issue and go, right, we're all serving the one client, we're all serving the one cause, which is building a sovereign Australia.

01:00:30:21 - 01:00:45:19
Daniel Franco
Surely there's a way in which we can manage resources, that we get these outcomes and we move because as you know, this is ten year horizon that we to have everything by. Yep, with, with the lack of workforce, there's got to be a smarter way as an industry to come together.

01:00:45:21 - 01:01:05:12
Christine Zeitz
That's true. I'll just comment though on the stealing between now I'm no, I know it's true and it's often comment it's something that I do I do want to comment on, you know, most of us are project based companies and so projects come to a close. Yeah. And then they start and you might need different skills.

01:01:05:12 - 01:01:06:04
Daniel Franco
So there's downturn.

01:01:06:04 - 01:01:34:04
Christine Zeitz
And there's no doubt that you win a very exciting program and people will come from other defense companies and join you. You know, one of my competitors wins a very attractive one. Some of my people will leave and go, Yeah, so so that's happened since for my 30 plus years. Yes. So that will always happen. And, you know, we have an understanding between the CEOs, you know, around poaching.

01:01:34:10 - 01:01:53:12
Christine Zeitz
Yeah. You know, you work with these guys a lot. So again, it's a small community. So we see that transition and it's yes, it might be a little more or a little less at a time, but it's I would call that normal. Yeah, but you're very right about hang on a minute. But if you look at the demand signal.

01:01:53:12 - 01:02:17:12
Christine Zeitz
Yeah, it is well beyond the current industry workforce. So what are we going to do about attracting new skills into this industry? Right. And we see in South Australia, particularly enormous amount of work going in from the Federal Government, the State government, universities and industry on a workforce plan for the shipbuilding, the submarine. MM So that has not really ever happened before.

01:02:17:29 - 01:02:43:10
Christine Zeitz
It's always been market driven. Yeah. Market forces and it's been particular companies setting up arrangements with universities. This has happened for many years where you might have an arrangement with the university where you know, you have internships and you might actually sponsor some special degrees around defense engineering. Yeah, so that's but that's not at a magnitude. So that's the kind of just status quo.

01:02:43:10 - 01:03:24:09
Christine Zeitz
So so it is being done and the fruits of that labor are yet to be seen because it's really early days. Yeah, but we have to as an industry attract more people in and this is why I will always say this, this negative approach of and it's not just media, but the commentary around failures in defense are not helpful and a recognition that defense programs in the green technologies that haven't been developed yet the leading edge complex, multi-year, you know, integration in the most high secure areas with you know highly regulated it ain't easy.

01:03:24:09 - 01:03:47:03
Christine Zeitz
And so, you know, yeah, some are going to take longer and some are going to shift and move. So that reframing, you know, we all have an obligation as in defense, customer and government to to get a narrative out into the community where kids want to say, you know, Oh, that's really exciting. Yeah, that's next generation technology. I'll work on that anywhere else in this time in defense.

01:03:48:04 - 01:04:16:15
Daniel Franco
I'm going to I'm a massive advocate for the way we do work in defense, right? And we have done work primarily with one of the people the the the companies that we've spoken about today. I won't say who and we we flew to the UK to do this piece of work and I obviously cannot talk about it, but the it's like James Bond meets Jason Bourne mate like it's just the technology.

01:04:16:15 - 01:04:16:26
Christine Zeitz
Yes.

01:04:16:26 - 01:04:20:27
Daniel Franco
As me as is outsider is so exciting.

01:04:21:07 - 01:04:21:20
Christine Zeitz
So.

01:04:21:20 - 01:04:41:00
Daniel Franco
Exciting about some of the things that can be done and from Yeah I know and I just think why why wouldn't you want to be? I'm a bit of a tech geek, so maybe that's why, but I think it is really exciting. But what is interesting, if you think about that and you put the shoe on the other foot, like I just said, I can't talk about it.

01:04:41:04 - 01:04:43:13
Christine Zeitz
I know. So you had to we had to.

01:04:43:20 - 01:04:55:22
Daniel Franco
Go to schools and educate and teach kids and some. I think you can go I mean, I'll be wowed with what you can talk about, I suppose. But yeah, it's it is just an interesting sort of and there's a gap there.

01:04:55:22 - 01:04:56:09
Christine Zeitz
There is.

01:04:56:19 - 01:04:57:06
Daniel Franco
And had it.

01:04:57:12 - 01:05:30:14
Christine Zeitz
And it's starting to talk more, I think, for two purposes. One is for that to have the attraction for talent coming in. The other is public advocacy of what we're doing. Yeah, so for the first time, I think it was a year ago now, I think the anniversary of a year that the head of ASIO tweeted was a couple of months ago and, you know, he understood that he's got to start publicly talking about, you know, the height of the cyber impact, you know, what they're saying, which they would never have done before.

01:05:30:15 - 01:05:54:04
Christine Zeitz
Yeah. So in the purpose is to heighten public awareness, but also, you know, to put it out there that these these really, really difficult problems to solve with really talented people in defense. And so and so. So we're seeing that we're seeing a bit more public from the government engagement with the community around what's going on and.

01:05:55:14 - 01:06:07:07
Daniel Franco
What we're talking about, the sense with your deep understanding in the geopolitical landscape at the moment and your insights to future trends, and what do you think the sector will look like in the next 5 to 10 years?

01:06:08:19 - 01:06:33:14
Christine Zeitz
Well, I mean, we can see this government initiated a independent review with a previous chief of defense force and a previous defense minister, which they gave that review back was very short review about six months, and they put that to the government in March this year. And now the government has responded and said we will, you know, absolutely take these recommendations.

01:06:33:14 - 01:06:54:27
Christine Zeitz
And the Department of Defense is now working through how going to do it. And the strategic setting of that is that I believe that this strategic environment has come to a point where our adversaries have built up their capabilities so much that the ten year that you spoke about is shrinking. Yeah, well, and so they've talking about three phases.

01:06:54:27 - 01:07:18:16
Christine Zeitz
The first phase is kind of 3 to 5 years in 5 to 7, ten plus. And so what we're seeing is a commitment to deter back to these, you know, what is the role of defense? Is it to kind of go and fight? Yeah, you know, it's actually the posture is that that we wish to deter and prevent.

01:07:19:07 - 01:07:40:00
Christine Zeitz
And so to do that, you've got to have the capabilities to deter. So the submarines, long range strike and capabilities like that, that is an uplift. And so although in the first estimates, the forward estimates, the next four years the budget is roughly the same which we had already increased after that, the government is showing a high increase.

01:07:40:09 - 01:07:55:18
Christine Zeitz
So the industry responds to demand. Yeah, so the demand signal is very, very strong. And so therefore the question around where the industry will be, you have to you have to think the industry will grow and be very strong.

01:07:55:18 - 01:08:11:08
Daniel Franco
Yeah, I think what's scary for me is that the back to the talent rise, we don't have the workforce. That's the that's the scary thing. This is a threat on our doorstep and we don't have the talent. Is it? All right, here's another example.

01:08:11:08 - 01:08:27:00
Christine Zeitz
You do. I mean, one of the areas that we also shouldn't overlook is the partnerships. Yeah. So, you know, partnering with the United States. Yeah. How much do we do? How much do they do? How much do we leverage off their capabilities? We don't stand alone.

01:08:27:02 - 01:08:28:20
Daniel Franco
No, it just costs a lot more.

01:08:29:03 - 01:08:30:11
Christine Zeitz
And I think it's.

01:08:32:28 - 01:08:37:25
Daniel Franco
So while we're on this subject, what what keeps you up at night?

01:08:37:25 - 01:09:01:26
Christine Zeitz
I'm well, because I've learned to kind of relax a little bit. I sleep very well. And look, I think I think in that dimension, you know, I do not want there to be any engagement. So, you know, what keeps me up at night is is getting to a point where. We do have a posture that deters. Do we.

01:09:01:26 - 01:09:02:25
Daniel Franco
Have that posture at the.

01:09:02:25 - 01:09:06:12
Christine Zeitz
Moment? No, That's what the review said. Yeah. So I'm not you.

01:09:06:15 - 01:09:09:09
Daniel Franco
Know, how long how far away like what does a posture look.

01:09:09:09 - 01:09:23:19
Christine Zeitz
Like. Well, they they're now doing the defense posture strategy. So the kind of strategic settings that we need to accelerate from our government, from Australia, from our previous plan. So yeah, definition of what that is in the time and yeah.

01:09:24:06 - 01:09:44:26
Daniel Franco
Is not can you excuse the ignorance of next question. I think about, you know, let's just use that ten new things like right, the threats here in ten years and the subs are going to take, the subs is going to take ten years. Right in my head I go, why wouldn't the threat just go? I will strike in eight or nine years because if we.

01:09:44:27 - 01:10:11:03
Christine Zeitz
Had because we have to call in submarines. Yeah. Okay. And and I think that's something that, that, you know, we are upgrading the current fleet. Yeah. We've had high availability of the current fleet and they are our deterrence today for the moment. And so the question is they have a life we call it loss of type. Yeah. So that the end usefulness of the life of that platform and they have extended that they are extending that life.

01:10:11:03 - 01:10:33:29
Christine Zeitz
But there's a point where you know, obsolescence, you know, with anything that you have, you've got to replace it. So the new submarines are for that replacement. So we aren't, we are not without. Yeah. However, to reinforce whilst we have the Collins the agreement now is that the US will have Virginia class submarines out here from 2025. Okay.

01:10:34:10 - 01:10:41:24
Christine Zeitz
And, and we will then be operating from 27. Okay. So there's that partnership again. Yeah. Yeah.

01:10:43:12 - 01:11:05:12
Daniel Franco
Do you think using the ten year number again, do you think if we went through a change management program and you know you've said the industry is highly regulated yet, but somewhat probably too much, you know, pendulum goes one way, goes too far from a regulation. There's a way in which we can scale these back and get things done quicker.

01:11:05:14 - 01:11:05:21
Christine Zeitz
Yeah.

01:11:06:00 - 01:11:07:06
Daniel Franco
Do you think that's an opportunity?

01:11:07:06 - 01:11:39:18
Christine Zeitz
Yep. And funnily enough, one of those key drivers of regulation is the restriction of the technology the US government has on their knowledge know how technology, and that's called the international trade regulations for US technology, and that takes a long time. So you know again what one would see if they looking at our industry at the moment is Congress in the US are going through deliberations to reduce that timeline and to make that more open and transparent.

01:11:39:18 - 01:12:02:01
Christine Zeitz
So interestingly, this urgency has hasn't yet, but it is causing the US government to reflect on how they reduce their regulation. For Australia to respond. So it is, you know, and it is causing that to face. Yeah, yeah.

01:12:02:01 - 01:12:28:20
Daniel Franco
I do want to touch on this because I do think it's important for us to know. I think what, what with the threat and it sounds like, you know, it's a pretty high level threat, right? We're not Yeah. Will put this in context I was always told the old wars of you know, person to person is not going to happen anymore and it's just going to be all tech war and cyber security war and all this sort of stuff.

01:12:28:20 - 01:12:38:10
Daniel Franco
But yet we're building things in case for the fact that of the actual it seems to me like invasion is that is that the threat? Is that what are we actually scared of.

01:12:38:18 - 01:12:59:12
Christine Zeitz
We're actually not so much scared of invasion. What we're scared of, what the threat is. What the threat is is that the there has been such an enhancement in our adversaries capability that they could cut off lines for our trade.

01:12:59:20 - 01:13:00:01
Daniel Franco
Okay.

01:13:00:09 - 01:13:10:14
Christine Zeitz
So it's it's really them affecting the way our livelihood and the way we live. It's not them landing a plane in Yellow Springs. Yeah.

01:13:10:29 - 01:13:11:21
Daniel Franco
Yeah. Okay.

01:13:11:21 - 01:13:12:24
Christine Zeitz
So why so.

01:13:13:16 - 01:13:23:02
Daniel Franco
So the the trade affecting our livelihood and again, ignorance in this question, why would they do that just because.

01:13:23:18 - 01:13:23:25
Christine Zeitz
Or.

01:13:23:27 - 01:13:26:24
Daniel Franco
Well, they want to hold us to ransom or like the.

01:13:27:07 - 01:13:50:17
Christine Zeitz
What's the motive power. Yeah. Yeah. You look at some of the you know, look at what Russia's doing with Ukraine. You say, why would you do that? Yeah, well, it was only to expand Russia's sovereign land. Yeah, yeah. Look at it logically. You think, well, why on earth if you just caused all those deaths, that disruption to two countries next to each other.

01:13:50:17 - 01:13:52:03
Daniel Franco
When you already have the biggest landmass.

01:13:52:09 - 01:14:05:12
Christine Zeitz
You know, why would you. This is the point around you know, would all be fine if everyone was reasonable and thought like us. Yeah, but they're not. So that Russian example is a very predominant example of what could occur.

01:14:05:12 - 01:14:13:25
Daniel Franco
So again, is there anything that the civilian and the public can do or should be aware of, or is it just sort of sit and wait?

01:14:14:03 - 01:14:36:20
Christine Zeitz
Well, I think the the government's role is to help the public understand what this is. You know, why we're spending a lot of money. You know, when I talk to my daughter, who's 21 and following in the mother's footsteps, probably a bit of a hippie. And, you know, I talk to her and I say, what are your friends think about, you know, defense?

01:14:36:26 - 01:14:58:06
Christine Zeitz
Because, you know, she certainly grew up with me and understands the dynamic of, you know, the necessity of it. Yeah If everyone was the same as us. Well, you wouldn't you wouldn't have to have it in the most simplest terms. And she said, look, you know what? What I see my friends, they're just thinking about why so much money, you know, they can't get it, but it's so much money.

01:14:58:06 - 01:15:18:26
Christine Zeitz
And we've got climate change and we've got other things. As you said, you know, if you think have all the submarines, 6 billion or whatever it is now. So I think there is a role certainly for the government to help the public understand why they have decided that that amount of money is the right amount of money to support our allies, Japan, the US, you know, Yeah.

01:15:19:06 - 01:15:26:07
Christine Zeitz
And do what we're doing. And NATO's, you know, her. Yes, Well, but it's tricky and.

01:15:28:08 - 01:15:52:02
Daniel Franco
It's on family. You've brought up your daughter. Do you do you ever do you ever look at your career CEO and obviously the the the clearance levels that you have and, you know, you want to share information and protect, but there's just like you've got to keep that level in line. How do you manage that?

01:15:52:25 - 01:16:20:29
Christine Zeitz
Oh, look, I think generally speaking, you know, I don't know that you need to understand the intricacies of you know, we talk about the build up of capability that we're saying, all right, So we may have seen what that is and that doesn't really matter to the public, you know, common person. So I think the messages can still be portrayed without, you know, needing to go into their details.

01:16:20:29 - 01:16:39:18
Daniel Franco
Do you I mean, family plays an important part in our lives. And I know it is a huge part of your value set as well. How have you managed your career and your family life over the over the years? And do you think you've got the formula right?

01:16:39:18 - 01:17:06:08
Christine Zeitz
Well, I, I manage it like a project and priorities like my work really, as in, um, you know, through the different stages of having children. And also with my husband, there's certain priorities that I protect and I try off, just as you do with business decisions, I guess. So, you know, I tried it off playing squash when my kids were born squashed.

01:17:06:09 - 01:17:24:20
Christine Zeitz
It didn't fit. And I love playing squash. I probably can't go back to it now, you know? But they I loved it. But you had to kind of pay it off to work. Yeah. You can't, you know, at a time with another person. And when it got to trading off, you know, time at home, I had to let that go.

01:17:24:20 - 01:17:49:12
Christine Zeitz
And I started running and running when I was away, you know, without time frame, you know, whenever I could. Yeah. So it's just a priority thing. Yeah. I think and I see different people have different priorities and I had a priority that I wanted to, which was very difficult in Adelaide. I did not want a nanny, I certainly wanted a clean, a cook and everything else, but I wanted to play with the kids.

01:17:49:12 - 01:18:09:18
Christine Zeitz
Yeah, I got home, I wanted to have that time. And so so I specifically went out and in Adelaide there wasn't a service back in 20 years ago of cooking meals that you can get delivered now. There was and so my girlfriend said, Well, you live close to Flinders Uni, why don't you put an ad out for nutrition, someone studying nutrition.

01:18:09:19 - 01:18:30:14
Christine Zeitz
Oh yeah, and I did and I had a young girl come Mondays and Wednesdays, I had $20 an hour, $40 and she cook for two nights fresh food and wed two nights and we were done. And that meant I could come home. And I did come home and play with the kids and have dinner and do the bath and then hop back and work after that.

01:18:30:14 - 01:18:57:19
Christine Zeitz
And that suited my yeah, my boundary and others are different. Others will, you know, everyone is very, very different in those priorities. But the advice I give is outsource the things that aren't important to you. Yeah, outsource. Yeah. Give up your you're a you know you know I still is in restaurant and in pay for people to do something.

01:18:57:19 - 01:18:59:03
Christine Zeitz
Yeah. That gives you more time.

01:18:59:27 - 01:19:04:28
Daniel Franco
Yeah. Some might not have the cash on hand to be able to do that I.

01:19:04:28 - 01:19:24:14
Christine Zeitz
Guess and it depends. Absolutely. And it depends on your own circumstances and it depends on family support. You know, we had my mum have a day with the kids and my mother in law have a day with the kids. That was a routine for five years. Yeah. Which I thought was just wonderful. And I hope I have a day with my grandkids.

01:19:25:04 - 01:19:46:08
Christine Zeitz
It was enough for them. Yeah. You know, they were in their early sixties. Yeah, but that worked beautifully. So, you know, that doesn't we did not pay our mothers to do that. So that was free because you have. Yeah. So it's, it's you're how do I work through this to get the, the best or the best results with the resources that I had.

01:19:46:08 - 01:19:47:12
Christine Zeitz
Yeah. Hundred percent. Yeah.

01:19:48:11 - 01:20:10:18
Daniel Franco
Now I am of your time we, we should look at rounding rounding off. No I'm, but I do want to ask you a question about I wish we could write, which we could probably we would probably talk about for an hour or two, but yeah, I'm. I love and obsessed with everything I at the moment, I'm drawing out everything that comes our way.

01:20:10:18 - 01:20:49:03
Daniel Franco
And I am. But I think about I mean, in the defense and security and, you know, so absurd on all of the above and cyber security generally. And I'm being very general a large industry as well. It is about I mean, actually now that's wrong. They do have they can build firewalls to stop people, but there's always someone or something that can be created that can penetrate the firewall air, which is 10,000 times smarter than us, has the ability to crack code quicker than any human could.

01:20:49:03 - 01:21:02:13
Daniel Franco
Is that is is that a real fear for the defense world? And just any corporate space that these air has the potential to come in and navigate its way through undetected?

01:21:02:19 - 01:21:28:03
Christine Zeitz
Well, we use in many of our solutions, it's a bit like cyber runs. We don't sell cyber solutions. Our solutions are cyber proof and our solutions embed Yeah, so certainly for defense, the aim is to have the human out of the loop as much as possible. Yeah, and the AI algorithms and learning coming in and giving information to the warfighter.

01:21:29:00 - 01:21:51:08
Christine Zeitz
So it is an asset and you know, AI is it's develops as you know is a is a kind of continual reinforcement of what what the machine is learning. Yeah. Correct. So it doesn't start with this intelligence, it's got to be programed and then continually reinforced and yeah, it's.

01:21:51:10 - 01:21:51:29
Daniel Franco
From time to.

01:21:52:05 - 01:22:08:12
Christine Zeitz
Time. Yes. Yeah. So I, you know, I'm, I still have a view that ais human controlled, I'm not yet of the view that we're in a space where the machine goes off and no, we're a wildlife where a while away from that but.

01:22:08:13 - 01:22:10:05
Daniel Franco
Someone with some time on their hands can.

01:22:10:19 - 01:22:39:18
Christine Zeitz
Yeah. And look you know we, we, we know that the, the back to ASIO and places like that are hiring the most, you know clever people to, to, to test their own, you know, they break into themselves all the time. Yes. Just as business is good. Yeah. Consultant company go and test their. Yeah. So you know I just think it's another technology that that we adapt and we, we focus on and we bring into our toolbox and.

01:22:40:06 - 01:22:41:14
Daniel Franco
I think it's very exciting.

01:22:41:14 - 01:22:54:22
Christine Zeitz
It is very exciting. And I think you're you're right and probably above average to be adopting it. Um, as much, as you sounds like you are, I think I'd encourage you. I think that's fantastic.

01:22:54:29 - 01:23:23:07
Daniel Franco
Yeah, we're definitely, we're definitely welcoming of the opportunity for it to streamline a lot of our processes. Like it doesn't make sense to do it any other way. Right. Final thoughts. If you were to give before we jump into some quickfire questions, if you were to give advice to younger self giving, you know, looking back at your career, is there anything you would do differently?

01:23:23:27 - 01:23:48:00
Christine Zeitz
Oh, yes. Um, I think a lot of energy was spent frustrated, full of that calmness. Yeah. You know, I think I would say don't worry so much, you know, it'll work out and, you know, you get a job, don't worry about the bias, you know, you'll get through it. So I think I'm a lot calmer. And so my advice would be probably don't worry so much.

01:23:48:00 - 01:23:51:27
Christine Zeitz
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:23:51:27 - 01:23:58:26
Daniel Franco
All right. Some quickfire questions to round off us. What are you reading right now? We're big readers here.

01:23:59:07 - 01:24:19:07
Christine Zeitz
I'm reading. And Brendan, Who was that? I got to know Brendan when he was the director of the War Memorial, I guess. And I regard him very highly. And he has written a book of life and leadership. I can't go. I mean, the last chapter as we speak is review copy and and I love it. Excellent Life and Leadership.

01:24:19:21 - 01:24:20:21
Daniel Franco
By Brendan Nelson.

01:24:20:21 - 01:24:21:08
Christine Zeitz
Brendan Nelson.

01:24:21:14 - 01:24:31:05
Daniel Franco
So if there was a self-development book, one that you've probably gifted more like one that you actually really recommend, you go, This had an impact on my life. Would there be one?

01:24:31:28 - 01:24:52:17
Christine Zeitz
Do you know what I know? I've not read a self-development book for a long time and I saw Good to great on you. Yeah, I like that I remember. I remember that. But I, I get the self-help from people's stories. Yeah. So the one I'd give at the moment is Wendy McCarthy's, um, book that she wrote, which was called um.

01:24:53:08 - 01:25:03:07
Christine Zeitz
Oh, it'll come to me. Don't. Oh, look at it. Ask me another question.

01:25:03:07 - 01:25:08:07
Daniel Franco
So. Right. Thank you too. I'm.

01:25:08:07 - 01:25:10:23
Christine Zeitz
Don't be too polite, girls.

01:25:10:24 - 01:25:12:07
Daniel Franco
Don't be too polite girls.

01:25:12:07 - 01:25:16:10
Christine Zeitz
But Wendy McCarthy, who is I.

01:25:16:10 - 01:25:16:18
Daniel Franco
Guess.

01:25:17:00 - 01:25:17:18
Christine Zeitz
Has been around.

01:25:17:21 - 01:25:18:12
Daniel Franco
Was on your jacket.

01:25:18:12 - 01:25:42:07
Christine Zeitz
Now you're stupid. She's, you know, phenomenal when you think of her and what she did around family planning, you know, changing the rules of men attending to women in birth and abortion. And, you know, she's fundamentally changed the landscape and just learning how she did that in a time you know, I'm talking about my life. She was 20 years before me.

01:25:42:07 - 01:25:53:12
Christine Zeitz
Yeah. It's a, you know, amazing impact. And so I did learn a lot from reading someone else's story. I probably do that more now. Yeah. Than like Brendan's book That helps.

01:25:53:12 - 01:26:01:24
Daniel Franco
Him know he knows I'm a big biography and. Yeah, absolutely. So what's one lesson that's taking you the longest to learn.

01:26:03:06 - 01:26:08:27
Christine Zeitz
I think, Is that patience? Yeah. Yeah, it is the patience. I'm still not there. Yeah.

01:26:08:27 - 01:26:19:27
Daniel Franco
Be patient. I suppose you know, if you could have coffee with one historical or current figure, who would it be?

01:26:19:27 - 01:26:40:12
Christine Zeitz
It has to be Brendan, not Brendan Nelson. It has to be Nelson Mandela, I guess. Again, I loved his book, Long Walk to Freedom. I just can't understand how he did it. No, and I. Some of it the absolute pleasure of a leadership course in South Africa. We went to the island and we were allowed to go into his cell because normally as you go through, it's got a thing across him.

01:26:40:22 - 01:26:48:27
Christine Zeitz
And I stood in his cell and I just had it. Yeah. So I would like to have a drink with him and just say, tell me.

01:26:50:10 - 01:26:51:21
Daniel Franco
If it was a patient man.

01:26:51:28 - 01:26:56:19
Christine Zeitz
It's a bad.

01:26:56:19 - 01:26:59:01
Daniel Franco
What is some of the best advice that you've ever received?

01:27:00:15 - 01:27:03:13
Christine Zeitz
Um, um, you know, always right from Jamaica.

01:27:03:17 - 01:27:13:01
Daniel Franco
Aunty McDow Yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to flick this podcast to him. He will love that his name has been mentioned a few times. What's one habit that holds you back the most?

01:27:14:24 - 01:27:36:23
Christine Zeitz
Something I've been working on it is and I'm, I'm better now, but when I do get very frustrated it I swear and it's not the most becoming or enduring or helpful so I swear a lot. Yeah. Now rarely and it's probably better because it it but it's never any good people your team doesn't want to hear.

01:27:36:27 - 01:27:49:24
Daniel Franco
What if he just swearing just because like it's just patio language as opposed to swearing because you're angry or, you know, that's not let's not do that like as opposed to, well, that's not good. Let's not do that.

01:27:50:07 - 01:28:11:01
Christine Zeitz
I think depends on who is with you. Yeah. And if you understand that I'm very comfortable because what I've realized is that other people hates you. Some might even swear ever. So how does it sound to them when you see my husband, who pointed it out when I was working from home and I was swearing? Yeah. And afterwards he said, Chris, how do you think I feel?

01:28:11:13 - 01:28:19:19
Christine Zeitz
You know, when you're you're the boss. Yeah. You're swearing. And I thought, oh yeah, he often does that. Yeah. Ask me a question. Sometimes I do.

01:28:19:19 - 01:28:21:13
Daniel Franco
That I swear regularly.

01:28:21:13 - 01:28:24:10
Christine Zeitz
Well you know I found people that swear.

01:28:24:13 - 01:28:25:21
Daniel Franco
Now, but I often think about it.

01:28:25:27 - 01:28:26:06
Christine Zeitz
Like.

01:28:27:00 - 01:28:37:03
Daniel Franco
That. But then again if we come back to what. To informing and doing what's right and what's around, like, it's kind of where I go, Wow, that's me. I, I grew up in the construction industry. It's.

01:28:37:12 - 01:28:48:10
Christine Zeitz
Yeah, yeah, that was me. I was paralyzed. But I'll tell you. Yeah, it's really it's really interesting to think about how that's landing with people in the I agree.

01:28:48:18 - 01:28:50:25
Daniel Franco
I think about it all the time. I'm like if.

01:28:50:25 - 01:28:52:25
Christine Zeitz
And again if you're on a construction site, but it doesn't matter.

01:28:52:25 - 01:29:00:23
Daniel Franco
Exactly. Yes. But in the corporate world, it's a different, different thing. All right. What's your biggest pet peeve?

01:29:01:26 - 01:29:04:23
Christine Zeitz
Right? I detest people talking about themselves.

01:29:05:00 - 01:29:06:23
Daniel Franco
I really you just spent an hour and a half.

01:29:06:25 - 01:29:12:21
Christine Zeitz
I know. My God. I mean, pumping and pumping up.

01:29:12:21 - 01:29:13:03
Daniel Franco
Yeah, not.

01:29:13:03 - 01:29:18:18
Christine Zeitz
True. You know, starting off with I know this person and that person, you know. Yeah, it just.

01:29:18:28 - 01:29:20:23
Daniel Franco
Yeah, I'm a bit of a name dropper.

01:29:21:05 - 01:29:22:29
Christine Zeitz
Are you. Yeah. Mhm.

01:29:23:12 - 01:29:25:11
Daniel Franco
Because I know me and I'm one and.

01:29:25:11 - 01:29:27:25
Christine Zeitz
I like depend on. Don't give me that look.

01:29:28:26 - 01:29:39:07
Daniel Franco
It's more because I love, I call myself a people collector, I love just collecting people and going yeah I know this person, I can introduce you or because I think that's the best.

01:29:39:07 - 01:29:41:07
Christine Zeitz
That's nice. Yeah that's nice.

01:29:41:07 - 01:29:46:03
Daniel Franco
It's not because I'm like, I know. Do you know who I am? Because I know these people. It's. No. Yeah, no, that's horrible.

01:29:46:03 - 01:29:53:13
Christine Zeitz
And I had it the other day with a someone on a call telling me, you know, they knew the minister and they knew all these people. I'm thinking, No.

01:29:54:04 - 01:29:57:13
Daniel Franco
But I did. I namedrop in every conversation out there when we're making coffee.

01:29:57:13 - 01:29:57:23
Christine Zeitz
Did you.

01:29:58:00 - 01:29:59:15
Daniel Franco
Well I said oh my next door neighbor.

01:29:59:22 - 01:30:01:05
Christine Zeitz
Yeah, but that was in context.

01:30:01:05 - 01:30:03:06
Daniel Franco
Yeah. But still name dropping is in it.

01:30:04:04 - 01:30:06:18
Christine Zeitz
Context.

01:30:06:18 - 01:30:14:07
Daniel Franco
Right. Very good. If you pay someone to do your chores. Well, you do is probably a better question for me. If you could pay someone to do one of your chores, what would it be?

01:30:15:23 - 01:30:27:04
Christine Zeitz
Blow, blow, dry my hair. Such a waste of time and I have to do it. If I was absolutely gorgeous, I'd have a crew cut. Yeah, I'd have a drink.

01:30:27:04 - 01:30:27:28
Daniel Franco
And, I don't know, it.

01:30:28:16 - 01:30:29:10
Christine Zeitz
Wouldn't have to bother.

01:30:30:05 - 01:30:34:28
Daniel Franco
I don't know, to be that comfortable. You come out of the shower, someone standing there.

01:30:34:28 - 01:30:36:27
Christine Zeitz
Otherwise I would have done it. Yeah.

01:30:37:19 - 01:30:41:21
Daniel Franco
What's one word? They absolutely hate?

01:30:41:21 - 01:31:05:27
Christine Zeitz
Hmm. Um. I don't know that I do hate a word, and I Sure what I hate is at the football. Everyone doing player. Mm. I think it's disgraceful. Yeah. And they're doing at the moment with John Francis and then with the players or. Oh no you go and he found they him. If you watched the documentary about Adam Goodes.

01:31:06:09 - 01:31:11:29
Christine Zeitz
Yeah. Bowling. I hate that. Mm. Yeah.

01:31:12:17 - 01:31:17:09
Daniel Franco
I find, I love football but I'm a Geelong supporter.

01:31:17:09 - 01:31:18:27
Christine Zeitz
That's okay. Yeah.

01:31:18:29 - 01:31:22:01
Daniel Franco
I'm if there was.

01:31:22:09 - 01:31:25:27
Christine Zeitz
A way playing this week in Geelong Port. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:31:26:11 - 01:31:39:10
Daniel Franco
Yeah. Now well you guys are the greatest for now if I think that I go, you know when I talk about this question, one thing you absolutely hate, I hate football crowds more than anything.

01:31:40:01 - 01:31:41:11
Christine Zeitz
Because really Well, because.

01:31:41:11 - 01:31:45:00
Daniel Franco
Majority of people do not know the rules and they scream out stuff that.

01:31:45:02 - 01:31:48:06
Christine Zeitz
I it's like that's clearly.

01:31:48:06 - 01:31:53:11
Daniel Franco
Like just because that player is on your team, just make it okay.

01:31:53:22 - 01:31:56:09
Christine Zeitz
Yeah. See that? I didn't say that, but I guess I.

01:31:56:09 - 01:31:58:29
Daniel Franco
Get very annoyed. Anyway. I'm using logic and.

01:31:59:09 - 01:31:59:26
Christine Zeitz
And a.

01:31:59:26 - 01:32:06:02
Daniel Franco
Lot of emotion in a crowd and it frustrates me. Okay, what's one thing that you would do if you became invisible. Oh.

01:32:07:27 - 01:32:10:02
Christine Zeitz
I don't know, I, I, it's a bit.

01:32:10:02 - 01:32:10:14
Daniel Franco
Of a creep.

01:32:10:14 - 01:32:17:24
Christine Zeitz
Because it is. And the only thing I could think of, which is I used to like to go to the huddle at a footy game. Yeah. I used to go to the huddle.

01:32:17:24 - 01:32:21:00
Daniel Franco
What happens is rather be present huddle as opposed to invisible.

01:32:21:08 - 01:32:36:03
Christine Zeitz
You know. Well I'm not allowed to be there. Yeah. And I, so I'd like to sneak a quarter time in Kardinia Park and listen to Hawkins is the boys and then go across and listen to. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think of anything else that I'm, you know.

01:32:36:10 - 01:32:44:00
Daniel Franco
That's on and so that's good. What's your most useless, useless talent.

01:32:44:00 - 01:32:58:04
Christine Zeitz
Something like the games that I'm good at. I played with my father Backgammon. I am very good. Yeah, I play with my father. It's useless, really. I, I teach I think.

01:32:58:05 - 01:32:59:06
Daniel Franco
Creates some joy.

01:32:59:12 - 01:33:06:00
Christine Zeitz
Yes. So it's 93? No, me. Rugby. Very competitive. I don't. I don't let down.

01:33:06:00 - 01:33:13:04
Daniel Franco
I mean I love it. And we get we've got to end the podcast with a joke and you get a sheet joke.

01:33:13:06 - 01:33:21:00
Christine Zeitz
Oh I, I'm not very good at this. The only I just remember my kids having a joke. They used to say, Why does the computer cross the road?

01:33:21:18 - 01:33:22:01
Daniel Franco
Well.

01:33:22:12 - 01:33:29:00
Christine Zeitz
Because it thought it was a chicken. And that was they joke. Oh, like that's it's very not they just say yeah.

01:33:29:10 - 01:33:55:22
Daniel Franco
Yeah the computer's got some. I. Very good. Thank you very much for your time today Costain. It was, it was lovely chatting to you. It was an amazing story and kudos on your career. It is a phenomenal and thank you for sharing your insights to the defense industry. It is one that is super, super important to the obviously longevity and everything else of Australia.

01:33:56:12 - 01:34:12:16
Daniel Franco
And thank you for all the work that you and the team and and the industry are doing in that in that sector and in making us safe. If People were to get in contact with you. I think I know that you do a lot of keynotes as well. So if they wanted to be in touch with you and connect with you, how could they do that?

01:34:12:21 - 01:34:16:05
Christine Zeitz
LinkedIn, LinkedIn. This way, Yeah. Yeah. Excellent.

01:34:16:05 - 01:34:21:14
Daniel Franco
So Christine's thoughts on LinkedIn? Beautiful. I think that's it from us. Thank you very.

01:34:21:14 - 01:34:22:18
Christine Zeitz
Much. Lovely. Thanks.

01:34:22:24 - 01:34:24:21
Daniel Franco
Will Will is also she's.

01:34:27:22 - 01:34:30:18
Christine Zeitz
There we go. Beautiful. Nice to.