#44 - Dr Terry Sweeney CMG, CEO of Digital Health CRC, on Leading the Way in Healthcare with an Innovative and Entrepreneurial Mindset.

With over 22 years of global industry experience, Terry Sweeney is recognised as a thought leader in digital health, healthcare innovation through technology and commercialisation. Terry’s industry insights are in regular demand from international governments, healthcare organisations, public forums and media outlets, and he is a strategic advisor to a number of global organisations, including the G20.

He has currently stepped into the Digital Health CRC CEO role, establishing a digital health innovation strategy for Australia. Terry is also a Professor at the Faculty of Health & Medical Sciences at the University of Adelaide. Previously to where he finds himself today, Terry has established and scaled two major startups, both of which have been acquired by large global multinationals. One of those start-ups was Cúram Software, a social health and care technology business. Based in Ireland, Cúram’s global presence and market leadership led to IBM acquiring the company in 2012.

Terry is particularly effective in identifying and incubating opportunities in new and emerging markets, not least a $1bn+ partnership with China. Terry is the founder of Auxilia, an international digital health advisory at the intersection of healthcare, technology and big data. He helps healthcare, life sciences and human services organisations around the world to solve real-world business problems through the use of technology and data.

In this episode, we deep dive into Terry's journey to understand and analyse his personal motivations, from where he came from and how he got to the position he finds himself in right now. Terry shares the importance of sports in his life, how discipline and work ethic helped him succeed, and how he ended up in the health field by accident.

Terry shares the crucial work he and his team are doing in health that will help to solve a major healthcare problem, empower patients, improve understanding of health risks in individuals and communities, support clinical practice, improve system efficiency and access to quality care and Develop Australia’s future digital health workforce.

He also shares his thoughts on being comfortable with failure and the importance of his family in giving him the confidence to take risks and his final message of "If you don't believe in yourself, no one will".

Where to find Terry Sweeney

• LinkedIn
• Twitter

Join the conversation on Synergy IQ LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram (@synergyiq) and please support other leaders by liking, subscribing and sharing this podcast. 

Access SynergyIQ Website to get to know more about us. 

Say hello to our host Daniel on LinkedIn.

Books  and podcasts mentioned on this episode: 

• So You Think You Know What's Good for You? - The Ultimate Health Guide from Australia's Most Trusted Doctor - By Norman Swan
• Antifragile - Things That Gain from Disorder - By Nassim Nicholas Taleb
• This American Life Podcast

Transcript

Synergy IQ: 0:01

Welcome to Creating synergy where we explore what it takes to transform. We are powered by Synergy IQ. Our mission is to help leaders create world class businesses where people are safe, valued, inspired and fulfilled. We can only do this with our amazing community. So thank you for listening.

Daniel Franco: 0:20

Hi there synergizes and welcome back to another episode of The creating synergy podcast. My name is Daniel Franco. And today on the show we have such an all around genuine human being dr. Terry Sweeney on the show. Look, I think it's worthwhile to strap yourselves in for this introduction. It's a long one and the podcast because Terry has achieved so much in his life both personally and professionally. With over 22 years of global experience, Terry is recognized as a thought leader in digital health, healthcare innovation through technology and commercialization. Terry's Industry Insights are in regular demand from international governments, healthcare organizations, public forums and media outlets, and is a strategic adviser to a number of global organizations, including the G 20 is currently stepped into the digital health CRC CEO role establishing a digital health innovation strategy for Australia. Terry is also a professor at the Faculty of Health and Medical Sciences at the University of Adelaide. Previously to where he finds himself today, Terry has established and scale two major startups both of which have been acquired by large global multinationals. One of those startups will cure him software as social health and care technology business. Based in Ireland, caroms global presence and market leadership led to IBM acquiring the company in 2012. Terry's particularly effective on identifying and incubating opportunities in new and emerging markets, not at least a$1 billion partnership with China. Terry is the founder of Zillow, and international digital health advisory at the intersection of healthcare technology and big data. He helps healthcare life sciences and human service organizations around the world to solve real world problems through the use of technology and data. During Terry's tenure as global managing director for IBM Watson Health, he worked at the forefront of the Chinese government's healthy China 2013 national agenda, establishing a first of kind partnership to bring new innovative technology to serve the healthcare needs of the largest population in the world. Sarah has also held a number of global senior strategic positions in both government and private sectors. Reporting to the Secretary of State Terry was the UK Government specialist advisor on the health and social care digital strategy, leading the transformation of frontline services through technology adoption. He also led the healthcare practice for a large top four consulting firm. Terry was also a professional athlete in cycling representing England at the Commonwealth Games. He holds an economics PhD from Cambridge University, and a first class honors degree in economics also from Cambridge and a Master of Science in Business Information Technology. Terry was honored by hihi haitch Queen Elizabeth the Second with an order of Knighthood CMG in recognition of his service overseas on the behalf of the British government. So in this episode, we deep dive into Terry's journey to understand and analyze his personal motivations to where he came from to how he got to the position, he finds himself now, Terry shares the importance of sports in his life how discipline and work ethic helped him succeed, and how he ended up in the health field by accident. Terry shares the crucial work he and his team are doing and that will help solve major health care problems empower patients improve understanding of health risks and individuals and communities, support clinical practice, improve system efficiencies, and access quality care and develop Australia's future health workforce. He also shares his thoughts on being comfortable with failure and the importance of his family and giving him the confidence to take risks and he has the final message of if you don't believe in yourself, no one will. If you love the episode, which I know you absolutely will, be sure to hit the subscribe button and check us out at Synergy. iq.com.au and synergy IQ on all the social media outlets. So welcome back to the creating synergy podcast. My name is Daniel Franco, your host and today we have the very handsome man. Terry Sweeney, CEO of the Digital Health Cooperative Research Center. Thank you Thank you for coming on the show.

Terry Sweeney: 5:01

Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Someone said I have a great face for radio. I'm not sure what the handsome I look, I

Daniel Franco: 5:08

know you're a happily married man. But if you type in Dr. Terry Sweeney in Google, there's a very handsome looking back the word bachelor gets. You found a couple of articles doing a bit of research. And I think we've mentioned this before. There's a little bit of Ryan Reynolds about you.

Terry Sweeney: 5:27

I look probably Ryan Reynolds, dad. I'll take that compliment. Thank you so much.

Daniel Franco: 5:34

Very good. So we've we have caught up a couple of times. Last time we caught up I went back to the office with a grand old smile on my face and the people in the team. I believe I might have a little bit of a crush on you. But I'll give you a few reasons why. And I'm going to I'm going to promote a toot your horn a little bit here. But I'm going to rattle off a couple of your achievements today. Sure. And I wouldn't mind you I wouldn't mind if you unpack that journey, of course. So you've got a PhD in economics. I do hence the doctor. You would you've been knighted. I have for the coin.

Terry Sweeney: 6:12

On foot. Well, it was actually Prince Philip. So that was an interesting one. I took my mum as my plus one to some James's Palace. And we we were all excited about meeting the queen. And we got Prince Philip and God rest of soil but somewhat feels shortchanged that we didn't get the Queen's

Daniel Franco: 6:33

either or it's obviously an honor to, to have been knighted. And we'll go into all these little reasons, but I just want to rattle through this list. So you represented England in the Commonwealth Games in cycling.

Terry Sweeney: 6:45

Correct. Some people think I'm still riding a bike. Yeah, was that 10 People had to get injured for me to get a call up. But I made the squad.

Daniel Franco: 6:56

You've called yourself a washed up athlete. So that's we'll go into that. You've worked in MRI six British intelligence. I

Terry Sweeney: 7:02

did. Yeah. Making the tea.

Daniel Franco: 7:07

European Adviser to the Secretary of State of England.

Terry Sweeney: 7:10

Yes. Yeah. And that was Alan Milburn in the Tony Blair government. So that was that was Yeah, really good insights into British politics at that time. Didn't didn't find any weapons of mass destruction.

Daniel Franco: 7:22

That's good. That's a good sign. built and sold two companies one being cure M which you sold to IBM health for over 300 million or there abouts?

Terry Sweeney: 7:34

Yeah, yeah, that was. That's an interesting one. That was back in 2012. So we spent about 10 years building up our our business and I'm sure we'll definitely unpack that one. It's probably some of the best 10 years of my life from it from a work point of view.

Daniel Franco: 7:47

Absolutely. Well, the one that really sticks with me, so you didn't donate it half of what you earned from that to charity.

Terry Sweeney: 7:54

Look, it was either that don't give it to the taxman. Probably, yeah, do do giving it to charities. And a lot of that was my Catholic guilt of growing up as a good Irish Catholic movie. I don't do well holding on.

Daniel Franco: 8:10

That's good. So and then, as a result of that style, you you went on to work for IBM, where you managed $5 billion portfolio.

Terry Sweeney: 8:19

Yeah, IBM Watson Health. So that was a global MD for that. Splitting my time between Boston, Tokyo and Sydney. And it lasted about eight years, which I find surprising. I thought IBM would have kicked me out long before I got away with

Daniel Franco: 8:36

a three gigahertz and now I've probably skipped out a lot but now currently a father of a six month old boy

Terry Sweeney: 8:43

AI Yes. Yeah, little fella. He's actually just turned seven, seven months now. He's walking and talking and riding a bike now he's rover is quick for any sleeping for 12 hours a night so I can't ask for more than

Daniel Franco: 8:58

you've got the you have to give us the success formula. Professor of Atlanta University you're a special advisor to the G 20. Founder of oak Silla.

Terry Sweeney: 9:08

Yeah. auxilia we do a little bit of a little bit of advisory on digital health

Daniel Franco: 9:14

board member of the Southern Adelaide local health and Chief Executive of digital health CRC so

Terry Sweeney: 9:21

that's right. Yeah, what uh not a lot of spare time

Daniel Franco: 9:24

and a husband in the old been in

Terry Sweeney: 9:27

a fight I should probably yeah right at the top of the list and I keep taking on these people asked me to do these things and I keep taking them on and I struggle in life to see a newer to to any experience and just trying and find the time but but I have to see it you know, being in Adelaide somewhat allows me to fly a little bit under the radar and gives me a bit of time to

Daniel Franco: 9:49

do this kind of stuff. Well, obviously so the last but not least, which will be your biggest you know, this is your biggest accolade today but being episode number 43 On the creating synergy pod,

Terry Sweeney: 10:03

I've achieved everything in life, put a fork in.

Daniel Franco: 10:08

Well done. So let's recap that journey. That's a, that's an amazing lineup of goodies that you've done in your career and something you should be very proud of.

Terry Sweeney: 10:18

Thank you. Look, it's a little different. I think, as a kid, grew up in a council estate in the Northeast of England to a single parent family, and not having any money. And we literally the next door neighbor was a drug dealer, and somewhat of an interesting and colorful, a high school education or lack of education. You know, I went to a comprehensive school where the idea was that the smart kids would bring the not so smart kids or mixed ability classes and everything. The reality is the disruptive kids brought everyone down. And it was just all about crowd control. So I think, you know, in my time in high school, I can't remember anything that I that I learned. So it certainly given that backdrop. Quite an interesting and not a linear journey, that's for sure. I know, the odd person who knows, most of that journey, including including yourself kind of scratches their head a little bit and think, Well, how did how did you do that? And why did you do that? But I just Yeah, no, no master plan in general just kind of said yes to everything. And the Richard Branson way, drift it. Yeah, just drifted along and took every opportunity. And here I am, several years later, give away my age, and living in Adelaide and loving it.

Daniel Franco: 11:41

So let's cast your mind back to starting those businesses. And growing obviously, you started your own business was in the 80s was,

Terry Sweeney: 11:51

yeah, so we were at 16 at school. So I like to think it's an interesting story. Yeah. So me and a couple a couple of near to work, you know, the dawn of kind of modern computing, pre internet, of course, we were all into our, you know, our Commodore Commodore 64 pillars. And we just couldn't afford, probably to push it and put this on the record. But we we couldn't afford to buy games, right. So we would we would pirate them. Yeah. And we would we would get into the could strip away the security, which would allow us to copy them and, and sell them at high school to our friends for like 50 Pence and a pound again. And we were we were caught by one of the larger software houses whose name shall remain nameless. And we, the the, they were so impressed at how we actually stripped away the curd, because we found that if we took that security layer off, and sold the game to someone, they could then copy it and sell it themselves. And we then developed our own security code, which was better than what was being used by the games companies and put that on the top and they took a look at the code and, and hired us and bought our company for when I see a company, you know, they bought the could for about 75,000 pounds, which you know, in 1986 1987 16 year old for 16 years, how many of us three of us, you know, 25,000 pounds each? That's all well, yeah. You know,

Daniel Franco: 13:25

that's what that's the sort of today's world looks at cryptocurrency. Yeah,

Terry Sweeney: 13:31

yeah, look, that that that amount of money would keep our family going for two years. You know, so that that was that was kind of interesting. So that was the first foray into technology as a business. But being a founder and being a bit entrepreneurial,

Daniel Franco: 13:46

so your parents proud that you were pirating as

Terry Sweeney: 13:51

my mom give me a clip around around the year because that's what she used to do. I caught a strict upbringing with my with my mom kept me in line within gave you how she she was she was she scolded me and praised me at the same time. Yeah, never do it again. Give me the 25,000

Daniel Franco: 14:10

which I do leave. That's, that's brilliant. And all the while you're training as an athlete,

Terry Sweeney: 14:16

yeah. Yes. Cycling was was my was my thing. I really wanted to be a footballer, and I was just getting soccer. And I was I was terrible at it. So I, I was playing for the school, beating, running around and there was a guy kind of came along, watched us and approached my moment and myself after the game and said, Look, you know, Terry, you're not very good at football. You we we noticed you come into you. And at the end of the game, when everyone gets tired, you've got an engine, you can keep going so good, good stamina and, you know, they noticed that I wasn't beating people with skill. I was literally moving the ball past them and running because they were just too tired to keep up. So and that turned out to be Someone from the National talent ID program from British Cycling. At the time, you know, cycling is quite sexy at the time, it wasn't, do you want to come into the program, we'll give you a bike and, and training and coaching. And that's that was that was my I think it was 14 at the time. And that was my entry point into cycling and I got a shiny new bike and went on to to, to, to get a silver in the Nationals for for under 17. And again, just you know, I was a head down, bum up power power can emergent. And, and yeah, that that that, you know, fortunately went on to represent my country and do a little bit of professional cycling, in and around my studies.

Daniel Franco: 15:44

So it's such a good story do those two, early experiences of you know, starting that business and also getting noticed from as from as an athlete for iron, that would have shaped you in pretty good stead for the rest of your life?

Terry Sweeney: 16:01

It certainly enlarged my ego. I think I think I think the I think the that's why I love this. I think I think for me, you know, those two experiences gave me a few, a few tools. I think the cycling gave me discipline, a good work ethic, because anyone who rides a bike with any effort knows that it's an arduous task and can be a thankless task. And, and your body wants to wants to give up of course, before you breathe and does. So the the discipline and the you know, the eye on the prize that that single focus that you sometimes need in business to get from A to B. And I'm going to I'm going to just block out all of the all of the noise and focus on the price. I think cycling absolutely give me give me that the startup experience at school taught me that, you know, it doesn't matter where you're from, who your family is your level of education. That actually, if you if you do work hard, and you've got to, you've got a skill. And you sometimes have to be in the right place at the right time. opportunities will present themselves doors will open. You don't have to have be from a privileged background for it for that to happen. And at that time, I think that for me was a very important lesson. You know, I, someone asked me the other day, I'm going off on a tangent here. Someone asked me the other day about Australia being a startup startup nation. And and actually disagreed, and I had some reasons for that. So they said, well give me an example of a good good case study. And I said Israel in what makes the Israeli so good. And I'm married to it to a Jewish lady. And and it's the chip on the shoulder, you've got a you've got a population of people here who have been oppressed for 1000s of years, feel like the world is against them, and have this real, I'll show them kind of attitude. And I think if you look at a lot of a lot of very successful entrepreneurs, Elon Musk is a good example of that. They've grown up with a little bit of a chip on their shoulder a little bit of a, I have a point to prove. Yeah. And I think, again, having that humble background, and often being told, particularly at school that, you know, stay in your lane. This is what you can achieve. This is what you can't achieve. putting a cap on on your ambition. I wanted to in I always rebelled against authority. Every report card I had from school says just doesn't like authority. And I think I've carried that forward into adulthood and into the business world where you can't tell me no. Yeah. And you might be right. And I might have to give it a try. And then and I feel but but yeah, I think I think good learning good learning experience. Yeah, for sure.

Daniel Franco: 19:10

I think you're right, I think, you know, I come from a similar background played Junior sport, quite a high level but the the actual point to my career success, I believe in even, you know, family success has always been I want to prove myself and I don't know necessarily know who to Yeah, it just is this desire to be better and grow. And I actually really believe that comes from a sporting background. I believe sport sort of drives that into really pushing my kids to get into sport and especially teamsport. Because a like you said before, it's about setting a goal and really trying to achieve that goal and understanding what you need to do and breaking it down into smaller steps where it's you know, Running around the oval, you know, 10 laps every every night or whatever it might be, to then working with different personalities. And that can only help you and educate you in when you actually go out into the real world.

Terry Sweeney: 20:13

No, I think you're absolutely right. And interestingly, you know, a lot of people don't think Cycling is a team sport, but it is a team sport and having having a, you know, you have your role in the team, you have teammates of different abilities with different skills, it's no different a business, you know, I look at the team that I have now with the CIC, they're all absolutely fantastic. They're all individuals, they all have strengths and weaknesses. And myself, as the leader has to really try and, you know, bring that all together and take advantage of, of that skill set. And sport is a team sport in particular, definitely, definitely give that to me and the work ethic as well, you know, we you want to get from A to B, you want to get to the prize at the end. But but you've got to work bloody hard to do that. And it's probably a little bit of a cliche now, but it's, you know, don't have to be the smartest person in the room. But you have to be the hardest worker in the room. And I'm a firm believer that that working hard. In a smart way. You're working hard, really, really delivers results.

Daniel Franco: 21:20

Absolutely. So moving into the world where you go into intelligence.

Terry Sweeney: 21:26

Yeah, yeah, that was like it's on. It's on my bio now. And yeah, it's it. I'm surprised I don't get asked about it more. I had to wait 20 years before I could actually put it on my bio. And yeah, because of all the yeah, there's a there's a limitation on what you can and can't see and even admit that you you work for them, regardless of what you what you did. And it's Yeah, I have it at the bottom of my bio, and no one ever asks me about it. So thank you. Thank you for that. Well, like

Daniel Franco: 21:59

I should have said Tom Cruise.

Terry Sweeney: 22:05

Look, he's a good looking chap, but I'm not sure about the rest. I haven't seen a bad Tom Cruise

Daniel Franco: 22:12

movie. No. He says make some good movies,

Terry Sweeney: 22:15

he does make some good movies. i Yeah, look, I post post my, my PhD. So I did my PhD at Cambridge. So I was one of the few people from my school to actually go to university, the first person in my family to do so. And, and at the time, it was on a on a scholarship through the through the sports which was which is my ticket in really. And plus they have a quarter on how many poor kids they're bringing it to the to the college. So I wrote that ticket. And I did a PhD in economics, but I was looking at Game Theory models to predict certain behaviors and outcomes of terrorist cells. So, and Cambridge University itself has a long history with intelligence services in the UK, back to World War Two, where the British Intelligence Service was nicknamed Cambridge spies, because they hired a lot of people from Cambridge. So having a PhD with terrorism in the tail, from Cambridge, it was probably only a matter of time before the figure to their interest. And the we we built a model looking at the social and economic impact of a terror attack. So you know, if someone was to fly a plane into, into into London into in the middle of London tomorrow, what would the social and economic impact of that event be? How could then governments respond to that financial and non non financial? So they were very interested in i My understanding is those models are still being used now to to predict that was a response to an event. Was that pre the plane actually flying into? Yeah, that was mid mid 90s. Yeah, yeah, that was that was mid 90s. So that was a good five or six years before and before that particular big event in the world happened. And yeah, they had a bit of a chat and went in and join them for for three years and got to use my passport a lot to travel around the world a bit into some interesting places and very interesting time in my life, I could only do it for about three years. That was enough enough for me and then the lever

Daniel Franco: 24:36

What was the reason behind it three years being enough? Was it too much information for me to be able to keep to myself or the demand on you and stress on your as a workload or

Terry Sweeney: 24:49

was probably it was a number of things. I think firstly, you know, I was looking at friends of mine who were treaties and had government jobs in the UK are having kind of pretty normal lives doing really well. And he was I kind of running around for not a lot of money. Not really getting to see family and friends too much not being able to tell people what I did for a job was was quite challenging. And then that the mental tool of the job itself, I wouldn't say that I was always directly on the front line or in danger on a daily basis. But it's a tough gig for someone in their kind of mid to late 20s, you know, tougher than I ever thought would be, but learn a few lessons from that. Yeah. And yeah, I think had a good interesting three years probably wouldn't change it. I was in a situation where I did come into, there was some physical harm, and was probably a little too close to the front line and what I wanted to be and outs that's that's enough for me tank to leave and currently losing a house.

Daniel Franco: 26:02

Can you disclose that information?

Terry Sweeney: 26:04

I ended up in hospital after an altercation with with a with a with a bunch of interesting people in Eastern Europe. And we'll probably just leave it at that. Yeah. But I did have some had some really good times, I was attached to the British Army and did two tours in Afghanistan. And to see, I'm a big fan of that I'm not a no one's a fan of war, but I'm a big fan of the military and how the military protect us and to see firsthand the, the expertise and skills to you know, to keep us all safe. Was was was was fantastic, actually. And yeah, too much sand too much sun, and probably got to about 90 Year 99. And thought that that's enough for me time to find another job and a new career and somewhat reinvent myself.

Daniel Franco: 27:05

So how did you end up in the health industry? Well,

Terry Sweeney: 27:08

by accident, really. So I came out of the the intelligence services and thought crap, what am I going to do? I noticed, you know, this is coming close to why to care. So a lot of a lot of people that I knew were working in, in tech, or there was just call it then not it's not as sexy. Disruption was just kind of day to day, but we yeah, we didn't have all of those terms that we have now. But a lot of people working in the technology sector. And I thought, you know, they get paid well, there's there's the opportunity to travel. There's some good job stability there. I want to I want a piece of that. So I am completely fabricated my CV accentuated all of this technology experience that I actually didn't have. Although, you know, thinking back to school, yes, I had some

Daniel Franco: 27:59

sort of business. So yeah.

Terry Sweeney: 28:01

And I got, I got a job working with one of the big four consulting firms in the UK as a management consultant at Accenture and Accenture, primarily working in and around big government health and social services organizations. And that's really was one of the first things that got me got me turned on to to health and care in the in the UK. And then quickly kind of rose through that and became the managing partner of Accenture's healthcare business in the UK and and a bit of Europe. And that that was really the start of my journey into healthcare and healthcare technology.

Daniel Franco: 28:44

It's brilliant. And so after a few years at Accenture

Terry Sweeney: 28:48

yeah did a little bit a little bit of work there Accenture two or three years there,

Daniel Franco: 28:53

Here I am.

Terry Sweeney: 28:54

Yeah, I got it, I got it. I then got into working in, in and around the government and I did my advisory work for for fall in Melbourne. And then yellow, spotted a little bit of a bit of a trend in these big health organizations, you know, they all deal with the public. So there's an element of CRM there. There's usually a process to gather information, there's there are some rules to apply to that information to work out what to do with that person, what benefits they might be eligible for, what type of care they should receive. So had this kind of idea of developing a software platform that would do most of that stuff. And then in then, include the tools to allow the organizations to develop the rest because rules are unique to each organization workflow is unique security structure is unique. So I had that idea and then and then I stumbled across this very small A virus software company called cure MCU. Rem, it's a Gaelic word it means care and protection. And those boys will be asked in Ireland. And it was originally founded by, by two gentlemen, one of which was a caseworker for the social welfare agency, which is the equivalent of Centerlink, in Ireland, and the and the other guy had worked for, for Apple. So he was kind of more of a tech, you know, Silicon Valley can kind of gentlemen, and the, the the consulting firm consulting to these big welfare and health organizations, we're also thinking about productizing, that, so we came together, had the opportunity to buy into the, to the very, you know, we had about 11 staff at the time. And then and then setup, the UK business. And we, we landed a big contract with the Department for Work and Pensions in the UK, which kind of changed the game for us. And, and spent the following 10 years, building up that business around the world. So living in lots of fun and interesting places. And all based in Ireland, our development center was an Ireland, we were an Irish software company, the fact that we only had to pay 12 and a half percent corporation tax was was was good. But this was at a time where, you know, the we saw the rise and the demise of the Celtic Tiger, right, Ireland was a hotspot for all of these big internet companies, these.com companies. And when that bubble burst, there was a little bit of hesitancy around technology and island. But we, you know, we thought we've got something tangible here, we've got it, we've got a product here. We're very niche. So we were going up against Salesforce, we were going up against SAP, Oracle, these big enterprise organizations with 1000s of staff, all doing kind of generic case management, which you can apply to any industry, we specialized very much on Health and Human Services. And because of that, being niche, we very much were ahead of the pack. And, you know, we, I guess our crowning glory was we want about 10 or 11 of the states in the US for the Obamacare, the Affordable Care Act as solutions. And that propelled us and put us probably on the radar, with companies in terms of acquisition. At that time, we were turning over about 100 million US a year. So not insignificant, but 600, staff 200, of which were were still based in Ireland. And you know, that's the business that brought me here to

Daniel Franco: 32:46

to Australia to return to work. Use that. Yeah, yeah, we

Terry Sweeney: 32:52

responded to a government tender the Government of South Australia. Yeah, I think I was living in Wellington in New Zealand at the time, because we just did a big contract with with the New Zealand government. And we responded to a tender here with Return to Work se, and we want it. So I moved to my first tour of duty in Adelaide, it was I moved here at the end of 2007 for two or three years, to help setup that at that project and do whatever, you know, as a, as a start in certainly in Australia, we were a start up and we didn't have the name that we had in the US in Europe. So you know, I would do everything from washing dishes to writing a use case to doing a data flow diagram to, you know, briefing, a minister, just whatever, whatever needed to be done. And in our systems integration partner for that particular project was IBM. And that was, we were doing more and more work with IBM. And to the point where if you looked at their website, you would think that our software was learned by so then the they came along and made us an offer at the end of 2011. And we we signed it signed it away.

Daniel Franco: 34:01

What's that? What's that feeling? Like when you get an offer a company like IBM coming to you, number one, promoting your product? And number two, offering, you know, all the blood, all the sweat all the tears that goes into business? Because business is difficult? Yeah, it's extremely difficult. You talk about washing the dishes to meeting the minister. This is the ups and downs and you can have ups and downs in the same day. Yeah. And what was that feeling like? Is that was that the goal you were aspiring to when you were building QM? Or is it was it something that sort of fell in your lap?

Terry Sweeney: 34:42

I think it fell in our lap. We weren't we didn't have an exit strategy. So and that's probably why we went for for a good 10 years, right? We we definitely did not have we didn't go into it with an exit strategy. SAP. Look, try to buy us in that field for a number of reasons. A couple of years. Prior to IBM coming in, and that's probably when we first started thinking that's when we're interested or the organization's. That's, that's pretty cool. But you know, it's kind of a blessing and a curse. You know, with a big organization like IBM coming into bios, we, we, it was fantastic, because you know, with a small Irish company of 600 people, as well, as we were doing punching above our weight, we had a ceiling, right. And we could only scale so far, using the IBM sales and marketing machine to scale our capability, more broadly, fantastic, what an exciting opportunity. The downside is being swallowed by a big corporate machine, and wanting to make sure that all of our staff were nurtured. And you know, our attrition rate at Khurrum was extremely low. And we hired people based on the fact that they weren't applying for a job, they were applying for a lifestyle. Yeah, and myself included, and it was absolutely we look after you, and we look after your family. But but we expect a lot, you know, we'll give the loyalty but we expect a loyalty back and we and we got it in that model worked for us, you can't say the same thing about a big organization like IBM or, or others, and we wouldn't have had the control. So we wanted to make sure that everyone was looked after. And also that our value proposition wasn't being diluted, because we were successful, because we were small, we were nimble, our our costs were low, we didn't have a huge network of offices around the world. Therefore, our price, our sell price for our software was very competitive, very competitive. And we were niche. So we went a lot deeper than any other of these big players. So there was always the danger and concern that we might lose that advantage if we were swallowed up by a big by a big machine, so very much a blessing and a curse. And then they told us how much they were going to offer for us. And it all became a blessing.

Daniel Franco: 37:07

Absolutely. And the I'm always interested in and you work with, you know, offer advice and an expert in scaling and growing and looking for market opportunities. The idea of creating a business or growing a business for the, for the reason to sell. Is that a good reason? Because you see it so often these days, whereas you actually didn't have that now as as, you know, as the end game, you know, the exit point. But we see, you know, we're sitting in lot for Dane, yeah, here today in South Australia. And there is absolutely element here where there are businesses who are looking to grow only to sell Yeah, as opposed to grow a business because they actually want to provide value.

Terry Sweeney: 38:04

And it's a good, it's a good idea. People are willing to buy that good idea. And look, no I'm, I firmly disagree with the going in proposition of a new business, that I'm setting this up to sell it in three or five years time. And I think, unfortunately, the Silicon Valley boom, where we've seen a lot of VC money around. And unfortunately, there was a period of time where I think a lot of those investors didn't necessarily do all of their due diligence on a company before buying it, I think is given the impression that it's easy, right? And if I've got a good idea, I can turn that into a unicorn, and why wouldn't all of these people come lining up to give to give to give me money? That's that's no longer the case. And certainly not not not in the world that we live in right now. And I think, you know, my view, maybe and everyone's journey is different. My view is, you know, you, you go in it, because into it, because you firmly believe that you've got, you've got a good idea, you've got a point of difference. So you're offering something that either no one else is offering or you're offering it in a different way. So you know, what's the competitive advantage of people willing to buy your product or service? And if the answer is yes to all of the words, you know, you've obviously got a fighting and fighting chance. But you know, I, I don't I don't believe the secret to a successful startup or scale up is I've got this great idea and I'm going to sell it in five years time and let's work back from there. I think organically growing the business, you know, a little a little step by step by step because is the way to go and if you build a successful and sustainable business model then the rest will come and you will you will attract the investors and then the folks who might want to want to acquire you, but each to their own.

Daniel Franco: 40:08

Yeah, absolutely. I think you, yeah, there has to be a purpose. Right. There has to be a reason and the reason can't be purely money. Yeah,

Terry Sweeney: 40:19

no, I fundamentally agree with that. fundament, yeah.

Daniel Franco: 40:22

What are the tips to growing a company? What are some of your tips? Well, if you were advising a startup right now, or or even just any business that's looking to grow and scale, where would you suggest they look first?

Terry Sweeney: 40:38

I think, you know, for us and particularly with, with with Khurram, it's, it's the, it's the small incremental growth, I think there's a lot of people really feel like it's a race to grow, and to and to get market share. And we, we tried that a little bit, and we failed in that. So I think the first thing that I would see is small, incremental, natural growth to your business, it's the old you know, don't run before you can walk. And that's an obvious statement to make. And it's not, it's not, you know, advice that really, you know, world's leading, but I see so many startups and scale ups that are in a race or they feel like they're in a race. And it's just, you know, just take a step back and build your customer base, whoever your customer is, it doesn't matter. But put put build your customer base and build your customer loyalty, one of the things that we found is when we responded to a tender, or we went into pitch to get some new work. And we it current we were we did VC pitching as well, right? Google, Goldman Sachs gave us 10 million euros to get started, we pitch to the Irish government, through the beautiful organization, enterprise Ireland, who've got some good good capability here in Australia continue to do so the Austrian equivalent of Ireland, you know, we they gave us some initial seed money for to 2% of our of our business. So, but you know, build, build your customer base, build your customer loyalty, we went in, passionately, with every customer engagement, every project that we embarked on, we went we went broad, and we went deep. And we did, we did a quality job. And we focused without without, without any kind of disruption or, or distraction. We focused 100% on building the relationship with our with our customers. Because you know, the old adage, you get way more business from an existing happy customer than you then you will with new customer acquisition. So we wanted to build a small number of customers who were extremely loyal, extremely happy, we had the ability to land and expand, rather than just going out of the blocks a little too quickly. So my overall message there would be kind of just slow down and build the foundations of your business. Don't build a skyscraper without foundations, because you'll get found out it is going to fall down. And I think a lot of people right now just seem to be too eager to get to the end point without having to do the hard work. Yeah, in the middle.

Daniel Franco: 43:33

Absolutely. Guilty as charged. I think I think the the idea of growing quickly, because you see the opportunities, right? And you see them, present themselves. And you think to yourself who finally did this. And that could mean more market share, right? And it's a pretty simple formula.

Terry Sweeney: 43:51

It really is. And you know, it's there's a perception that these big, high profile organizations I've got there quickly, and they haven't, you know, I'm fortunate enough to have a good relationship with Mike cannon Brooks at Atlassian. And you ask the Atlassian boys or you ask the Canva team. How was how was their overnight success? They would laugh, right? Because it's it's hard yards, but all of a sudden there, they get some good press, they hit the headlines. And it's like, wow, they got there really quickly. So actually, they did a lot of hard work. 10 years. That's right. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And and had a lot of teas during a lot and a lot of tears. Yeah, I think that the other thing I would say is, is that you know, the positivity on failure. Yeah, in my experience, most of what I do in my life, I get it wrong. Whether that's business or family or other things. But what if you know, I'm willing to put my finger in the socket and see if it's actually turned on or not? And I forget electric. It's probably not going to stop me from putting my finger in a socket. So I just I just I like I just I'm, I'm very comfortable with with, with feeling actually very comfortable with it. And I'm also very comfortable with being above average, a lot of people in a lot of organizations feel like they have to be the world's best at something or I have to have something here that is truly unique. Well, it's not often now that we, you know, we can we can come up with an idea that is truly unique. And it doesn't have to be world leading world beating. And I, I always say my superpower is I'm slightly above average at a lot of things. Yeah. And my school grades would say that, you know, I'm a C plus guy right at school. And I am, I think it is a superpower. I think if you can be look here, at a lot of different things. That's pretty good. Because there are a lot of people out there that are actually pretty low key and a lot of yes, you know, a lot of people kind of specialize. So I think that's, that's, that's an important factor as well and being comfortable with failure. And again, I like the Atlassian model. They didn't come up with World groundbreaking software, they came up with some pretty useful tools for developers. We've all used Jira, or a lot of us who are in tech, have us have used JIRA. It's kind of useful. And it's kind of forgettable. But you have it right. And it's cheap. Yeah, but it works. And it's got some subject matter expertise in there. And it gives some make someone's day a little bit easier. Yeah, and what they do, and I'm a firm believer that that that's probably a better way of being successful than coming up with that killer idea.

Daniel Franco: 46:45

I want to touch on the mistakes part, were you open to making mistakes earlier in your career? So the Terry Sweeney of the 1990s 2000, early 2000s, compared to the Terry Sweeney, new 2021. And you're more open to making mistakes now than you were back then.

Terry Sweeney: 47:08

That's a really good question. I am you know, given that I have I have a family, right? I have a wife and I have two boys. And I think ordinarily, I would say, Well, I have a family now I have to do what I need to do to put food on the table for the family. And in that respect, probably, you know, you would think it'd be less risk averse or less willing to make mistakes. Because of that, but I've just happened to have married someone who is as crazy as I am, and has a high risk appetite, as I do. For me helps. Yeah, it definitely helps. And I think you know, for me having that, that that, that. That very solid, stable, we're all in this together family base, probably allows me to be even riskier than the young Terry Sweeney, who was single and didn't have a family and what's the worst that's going to happen? Right? Probably not nothing really bad. So I think my risk appetite now is probably higher than it was interestingly, because of the power that my family gives me and the confidence that my family gives me, I think that's probably the, for me, having a family is has given me more confidence than I've gained from, you know, running around on a bike in the Commonwealth Games or you know, standing in Japan a few years ago in front of the G 20. Leaders and talking to them about big Tech Tech and healthcare. It's it's it's the confidence of the of that solid family background. That's that's allowed me to kind of go out and, you know, I still have a few fingers and a few pies. My investment strategy now is probably riskier than it's ever been.

Daniel Franco: 49:01

Yeah, I agree. I think the the importance of having a partner that supports and is willing to ride the roller coaster with you is super important. My My wife has definitely been that person for me, you know, going out and starting my own business. We were we were building a new home at the time, I left the government role, which was paying quite well, building a home thinking all this money into this development. I was doing a development at the time and my wife was working part time, you know, so there wasn't other than my income. There wasn't much really coming in and I said I want to go out and start my own business and I want to leave in the next couple of months. And you know, obviously we had we had planned for the for the day that that might come and we had a little bit of a nest egg but the pure fact that she said no worries, I believe in you Yeah, actually just made that process so much simpler every day. So how did you feel? You know, stepping out it was scary but knowing that I had someone there who was willing to come along with the ride with me was super and super important.

Terry Sweeney: 50:15

No, it really is. Yeah, I cannot underestimate that that that that great family life that I have. And yeah, look, I think you have to back yourself as well. Right? If you don't believe in what you're doing, how are you? How can you sell that to someone else? Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 50:33

So you sell this business you're now a millionaire multi multi millionaire and you decide to give it away?

Terry Sweeney: 50:41

Yeah, I give a lot of it away. Mostly Catholic guilt. I'm not a religious man. But I grew up in the Catholic Church and as a good Catholic boy and you know it's a religion that drums into you anything good that happens in your life you should feel guilty about this still and I think Catholics around the way you need to resonate with me Yeah, it will resonate I think that will resonate with them that you know, you always feel I don't deserve this. And yeah, so I was probably for the I've always done pretty well for myself but for the first time you know, had some significant cash in my pocket. And I yeah, just felt a little little didn't sit right with me. Tell us

Daniel Franco: 51:30

what you did. You're having an airing over there. Tell us what you did. Yeah, it is an amazing story.

Terry Sweeney: 51:37

I've got a few am and you know, the boys would would have done this for me as well. Like the first thing that I did was when the check cleared from from IBM and we got up we've got our shares peered out was was flying to the UK and I've got you know, three three my best friends from high school we're all still besties we it look they do work here for themselves they have they have jobs pretty much a hand and mouth or probably not not too much disposable income income available, flew home and without trying to be Mr. bigshot. Appeared off all of their mortgages and bought them cars and sent them off on holidays and just got them set up nicely. So they didn't have to worry too much about life. And then it did some similar things with with my mom and my grandma and some cousins and so you should went across look not not altogether selfless, you know, made me feel good. Yeah. Even all that kind of money, all that amount of money. So I did that got them all get them all set up. We got it. We got a box in Newcastle United, I have to mention my beloved football club. I wish I had enough money to buy them and yeah, but what I do and and so you know, I'd fly home and we go in with the court and the directors and watch the and watch the games, which is you know, we were struggling to put money together to buy a ticket for the game. Yeah, when we were kids. So that that that was pretty that was pretty special. So we did that. And then and then identified two or three charities that I feel passionate about and and donated to them. And then that allowed me to feel good about life. And then I went and bought my first Seleka Lamborghini wasn't Yeah, I got a Lambo. Just kind of stereotypical middle ear kind of tech guy that gets a bit of money. Bought Talion sports car. The trick is Yeah, yeah, that was that was that was that. Now I drive a Tesla. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 53:50

And remember our conversation last time he said the Tesla just hands down base car I've

Terry Sweeney: 53:54

ever done like I've I've had some pretty good cars, you know, Lambo and a Ferrari and an LDR yet, and a Porsche nine lemon and a few different cars and cars. And my thing is, yeah, probably tell. And then I got, you know, I got the base model Tesla Model three a couple of months ago, traded in my Mercedes AMG GT and got this and best car I've ever

Daniel Franco: 54:21

amazing in my stick. I got into a car into the Tesla Model three with a friend and I didn't drive it. But he I sat in the front seat, and he put in Ludicrous mode and said, check this out. Yeah, it was the most exhilarating thing you just your stomach cannot really handle that the that this thing

Terry Sweeney: 54:41

is fantastic. And being in tech, you know, like, the idea that Tesla is a tech company that Yeah, that's right. I love it. It's like 60 Cal. Yeah. It's pretty good in the fact that I can just go home and plug it in. Yeah. tastic and I think now that I've tested an electric car, I can't ever imagine going back to Columbus. engine at all. And this is a guy who was like, you know, fun of the Wii. Yeah, a bit of a redhead. And I just don't think I could go doing it

Daniel Franco: 55:09

for the environment too.

Terry Sweeney: 55:10

But let's, let's call it that.

Daniel Franco: 55:14

The charity, you started that one of the charities yourself, didn't you? And you started with a particular human being, you're allowed to name drop in this? Oh,

Terry Sweeney: 55:25

yeah. Look, yeah, it's a little known fact that I've got a connection with with a certain certain actor, Hugh Jackman. And we, we, I was involved in the early days of selling, Laughing Man, which is a cafe chain, a couple of them now in New York. And the idea was originally was to look at homeless homeless charities and to bring some people through and give them hospitality skills. And then we looked at more of the kind of the farmers the back end who are growing the coffee crops. And, you know, when you pay $4.50, for a flat Wait, that the smallest piece of that that pie goes to the farmers Yep. So that charity was involved in setting up scholarships and programs for the farmers and the families of the farmers to, to give them a bit of a bit of a golf

Daniel Franco: 56:24

beautiful, How did that relationship come about,

Terry Sweeney: 56:27

through through it through through his wife through debt. So when I part of getting that big lump of cash for the company, was was was was was sponsoring and donating into a couple of Australian charities and his wife happened to be a patron of one of those charities and got to know her first and then we've got to the man. A few people were surprised we got I was just married in the Barossa Valley a few months ago. And we had because we were in a COVID world and everyone can arrive. We, we've got friends and family to throw in some video messages. And we got a little one from here at the end. Most people. That's not real.

Daniel Franco: 57:13

So that was nice they are. So now we're going to skip and I'm conscious of your time. So we're going to skip to the digital health world. But first and foremost, before we jump into that, oh, you've gone out you've built this business, you know, you then gone on to work for IBM Watson and, you know, built a very, very stellar career through those guys as well. Eight years

Terry Sweeney: 57:39

at IBM, I honestly, I'm so surprised I lasted that long, because I am just not cut out for life at a big corporate organization. And I think IBM tolerated me to be honest, for eight years, and I was having fun, I had to leave. I had the golden handcuffs for three years. And then I stayed on for another five because we were having some fun. But yeah, look, I'm just surprised it took so long for them to get rid of me.

Daniel Franco: 58:07

But you're in a position where you probably don't need to work anymore. And then you decide to become CEO of the digital health. CRC.

Terry Sweeney: 58:19

Yeah, it's an interesting pick. It's not a it's not a it's not an obvious pick, I think for them or for me, to be honest. I was doing a little bit of my own stuff, part time last year. So I could IBM, kind of April, May of last year, I was working in Austin, Texas. And Kim came back in COVID, Atlanta and did two weeks quarantine in Melbourne and then drove to Adelaide and then maybe do another two weeks. Yeah, so for four weeks, and decided I didn't want to go back to corporate life did a little bit of work locally here. And then because I know one of the board members of the CRC. And they approached me and said, Would you be interested in in this role? I did. I don't think they'll mind me saying this. But I always use the CRC as an organization that's not getting it right in digital health. And there were a number of reasons for that. And, but the potential is huge. The potential is huge. And if we if we get it right, we can do some some big things. So I think, you know, partly as a favor to one or two board members who want to very well and they have a stellar board. They have an absolute stellar board. I thought I'd give it a go and see and see what happens and put my toe in the water and now what now I'm all in you know, we've opened up this innovation hub here in Adelaide, we just opened up offices in Melbourne and we've got some really cool partners. You know, we've got 16 universities we've got some great industry partners like Isle city in and Telstra health and Bupa Foundation, and others And we've, in pretty much every health jurisdiction in the country, state and federal is a partner of the digital health CRC. You can't get that access and impact in any other organization. And we're a non for profit, we're neutral. We're like Switzerland. So we can kind of walk into any room and have a conversation. And we're taken seriously, because of the credentials of our of our 74. partners, we have 74 partners. It's one of the biggest CRCS we've been funded with $110 million over seven years, and another 90 in in kind. So we're technically the largest digital health collaborative in the world. So a lot of good reasons as to why I, I joined that organization, and the ability to grow my own team. So it's no surprise that there probably was surrounded by five people who I used to work with at IBM, who now work here. And the ability to do some good in digital health, and have a big impact. And the potential of that organization was what attracted me to it. And I have to say, I'm six months in, and we're doing the hard work. And we're doing it incrementally. And yet, we're building a solid foundation. But now we're at the point where we can start to do some cool things. And I think, what, what, what what kind of really put a spotlight on that is where we are now, you know, we're in lot 14, it's the innovation district in South Australia. And we're right in the heart of it. And we're you know, we're officially launching on the 27th of August, our innovation hub here. And in addition to that, we've spun out a commercial entity called Digital hive digital health innovation was introduced in the papers recently. That's right, yeah, was kind of nice photo of you, thank you, thank you. photoshopped. It's one of my, that was kind of a Baby of mine, before I joined the CRC, unfortunately, it's kind of very complementary to what we want to do with the CRC. So we're right realizing that and that that's, that's focusing on the commercialization of digital health, creating digital health as an industry because not only do we have a responsibility to solve some of the big healthcare challenges using digital technology, but we have an obligation as a CRC because we fall under the Department of Industry, science and innovation gives us 50% of our funding, and they're fantastic, by the way, we you know, we have an obligation to look at stimulating the economy, creating jobs, attracting global talent to Australia. And that's that's going to be the focus of our commercialization on called Digital hive. And we're going to set that up in a way that is self sustaining and self sufficient to allow it to live beyond the remaining four or five years that we have left as a CRC.

Daniel Franco: 1:03:01

We the digital world in health. Last time we caught up, he threw some statistics at me saying that health is only using 15 to 20% of the actual data available. And that if doctors were to actually read all the data of Lb about 167 hours you

Terry Sweeney: 1:03:24

got it? Yeah, yeah, it's this the sum per week or per week per year, right. There's some some incredible stats out there. You know, we've got this we're in this situation in in healthcare and technology where health care costs are just rise. They're out of control. Right now, obviously, the US kind of typifies that we're 17% of their GDP is spent on health care, so they're clearly getting it wrong. In Australia,

Daniel Franco: 1:03:52

so on that, what is your expectation that there should be spending on health? Look,

Terry Sweeney: 1:03:57

the average across OECD countries is 8 to 9%. Australia sitting at about nine, our clinical outcomes in Australia are very, very high. But but costs are rising. And we don't unlike parts where I think parts of the US health system get it right. They're they're very focused on the consumer. They're very focused on the patient. And we haven't historically been like that in here and here in Australia. So you know, we've got this, we've got rising costs in health. And at the same time, we've got, you know, all of these, these these problems that that the health heroes face on a daily basis, so that, you know, the typical clinician, as you said, would have to read 167 hours a week just to stay on top of information that's relevant to their job. Yeah. It's impossible rates impossible to do. And we're in 2021, and less than 50% of autistic Just under 50% of medicine is evidence based. So so about half the decisions that are made in our health system are not being made based on evidence. And

Daniel Franco: 1:05:10

so what are they? So let me get this straight. When I'm gone to the doctor, I've been diagnosed with a disease of some sort. And the answers that I'm getting I'm being given or the, from this doctor is based on what they have previously,

Terry Sweeney: 1:05:33

based on not even half a picture, right? And if you think about it, you know, in other industries, you know, retail, and banking and financial services are good examples, where, you know, the, the big tech companies of this world, they're all about data. They're all about information, and how do we get insights from that information. So that they're they're monitoring, they're gathering, they're, they're analyzing huge amounts of data sets, which informs them on how to drive their, their business. And they're very successful, you know, look at big companies like Google, and they're very successful at doing that. We don't have that in health. And the missing component is, you know, a lot of decisions that are made, or based on a knowledge base of information, it's the training and the textbooks and some of the experience that those clinicians have had. But we're not crowdsourcing information. So you know, the example I use is, if I, if I'm diagnosed with with cancer, and I'm having a conversation with my oncologist about my treatment program, I want that oncologist to have all of the information available to them to make the best decision possible on how we're going to treat my cancer. And in getting that, from a knowledge base of textbooks and literature and research papers is only half the picture. The other half is where are we getting the crowdsourcing information on everyone else? That has stage two colorectal cancer? With my characteristics, middle aged guy that in hearing, you know, and what work what Yeah, well, we we want to we want to crowdsource that, that that that information, that that patient information, and then look to see what worked well, what didn't work well, and use that to inform the decision on me. And that's something that we don't have, I mean, that that information is available, right? healthcare data is doubling every 73 days, during our lifetime, we're going to generate about 1100 terabytes of health care related data about us, we've got 3 billion data points in our genome, when it's sequenced, then we need to interpret that and be a bit smart bit smarter about that. So the information is there. But we're not really all we haven't historically tapped into it. And that's where I think technology comes into play. Because we've got, particularly with AI and machine learning, which can read up to 800 million pages of unstructured structured data per minute, it can find patterns and correlations and relationships and data sets that we never will, as humans, we need to use that technology to access all of that information. You know, 90% of all of the data that exists in the world today was only created in the last two, three years. It's just an explosion of information. And you know, it's getting from a health and wellness point of view, where we have our Apple watches and our and our Google Fitbits and other devices. It's just becoming more and more more and more prevalent.

Daniel Franco: 1:08:31

Is the privacy piece. You know, this? Is that the bit that's holding it back

Terry Sweeney: 1:08:36

now. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's that's spot on. It's not it's not a question about technology. It's not a question about the deal or not being available. It's about the privacy, the security and the sovereignty or the perceived issues around those things with what can they honestly do with do? Not look, I think, I think, you know, we've we've had a go in Australia, in particular at doing some national things with people's health information, we just we just seen a couple of weeks ago, there was an announcement from the UK, that healthcare data is going to be used for, for research purposes for the first time, we have to sell the benefits to the individual. Because if that individual gives consent, then all of the privacy and security and sovereignty goes away. I tick my box on my banking app to see Keep me informed on other things, right. Sometimes you're going to get bombarded with spam, and it's not relevant. But sometimes there's going to be a winner. Or if I'm shopping on Amazon, and I've been shopping for the CM, CM jeans all my life, and they say, Hey, Terry, we've got them in black. Do you want us to send them it's we've got them in your site? Sure. It's convenient. It's relevant to me. We need to have that mindset I think in health and health data, where if we sell the benefits of being able to share everyone's health data for good and it can be done in a secure way it can be de identified and

Daniel Franco: 1:09:58

then all of those I think that'd be The most critical bit, just take them away from it,

Terry Sweeney: 1:10:02

take them away from it, it's again, it's not a, it's not a discussion, or it shouldn't be a discussion around technology, it should be about the benefits of sharing your information into the larger pool. Because again, as an IT, no one can argue with the fact that if you're an individual, and you or one of your family members gets critically ill, and you have to deal with a doctor or healthcare service, do you want that person to have all of the information available to make the best decision possible? Absolutely. You can't argue with that. So then let's work back from that and make it happen. And some of the digital tools will will certainly help enable that.

Daniel Franco: 1:10:41

It's scary that we're not doing that in like you think you and I are both fathers. Right. And you think about if your children get sick, you want that information to be available. And I don't care where you get it from,

Terry Sweeney: 1:10:54

just get it nice. Exactly. Right. So I think they're the messages that we need to sell, I think to the to the to the Australian public. Because we shouldn't be having a conversation around data privacy, again, we use our banking apps on a daily basis. Could could that get hacked? Could someone steal our financial information? Could someone duplicate our credit card and go on a spending spree? Sure, but what do we worry about that? Does it stop us from using that?

Daniel Franco: 1:11:24

What What's the fear that you're getting it this email sending you antibiotics? Like, what is the fear about giving that data? What could it actually be useful? If we put a shoe on the other foot? What could it actually be?

Terry Sweeney: 1:11:37

Look, I think one of the fears is, you know, in, in Australia, with with with with insurance, particularly with private health insurance, you know, we're in a pool basis, right? So then, then there's the, there's the, there's the potential to get into profiling, you know, or this person has type one diabetes, or a history of other types of insurance, so maybe you're gonna have to pay a little a little bit more. Now. That's how it works in other countries, right? It's the same as car insurance, you have a bad record, and you have to pay more, we don't have that system in Australia. There's also potentially worries about employers finding out about information about your your personal health information, which might be that the feeling might be that that's going to put my employment status at risk, if my employer knows that I'm dealing with a with a health problem, so that there are definitely some real and honest concerns. But you know, technology can be an enabler. To put that in, take those worries away, the problem we have is technology is and the data explosion, are growing at a much faster pace than policy and legislation and regulation. And it's the, it's the, and we need those, we need to have good regulation in place to make sure that people do the right thing. But it's just not quite keeping pace with with the tech. So we need to have a really hard thing on how we do that, and put those checks and balances in place. But, you know, we're in 2021, we shouldn't be having a discussion about my health information being used for the next person who's got the same conditions me.

Daniel Franco: 1:13:17

With the rise in this data of being available, we're categorically saying that we're going to live longer, potentially,

Terry Sweeney: 1:13:28

look, I think we are we're going to live longer. And I think we're going to live longer in our own homes. You know, if you look in one of our one of our focuses at the CRC is an aging aging population. We've just had the Royal Commission in aging, we're starting from a fairly low base and Australia, in that in that sector. But, you know, we know from from research that 90% of have an aged population, who have a 65, in this case, have a desire to remain in their own homes. But only 30% are able to do so because of health and safety concerns. So you know, that I think we were living longer. We want to live a little bit more independently. And again, I think that's that's that's a fantastic use case for technology. You know, one of the things that we're seeing in healthcare globally is this rise of what we call virtual care, delivering health care services to people where they live rather than having them come in to you know, we see problems here and in Australia with with ramping you know, the the Eds are becoming of a lava, lava flowing and conquer up from a capacity point of view. So how do we stop people presenting to the hospital, we deliver more digitally assisted models of care to people where they're where they live. And I think that's one thing that's going to keep us Little CFR and give carers and relatives a little bit more confidence that we can allow people to live independently in their own homes as we all age, if we've got the technology available to monitor and evaluate and alert, where there's potentially going to be a problem, and we're at a stage now where we've got so much passive technology that can be in the home, that can be used to monitor our health and well being, I think that's certainly going to be the next the next boom area, we've got, you know, I did a little bit of work at the beginning of last year with Best Buy in the US right there. They're the Harvey Norman, or JB Hi, Fi of the US, they sell TVs and stereo systems, etc. And we've got the Geek Squad. So they're the people that come out to your home and put in TV on the wall. We now have Best Buy health, right where they're, they're installing passive monitoring system into people's homes, particularly elderly people, to monitor their health and wellness, you know, we've got a, we've got a, we've got a little device on the fridge or the kettle or the shower. We know this person, because we've mapped their routine, we know this person typically has a shower here o'clock in the morning, they open the fridge at nine, they put the kettle on at 930. So you can map the person's routine, and then you can monitor for exceptions to that routine. It's been two days since the persons who opened the fridge could be a problem. Maybe they haven't, you know, we've noticed from the bed sensor that this person, you know, is still in bed two hours after when they know. So let's alert someone to go in and check on that individual. And that's been sold as a service like you would have with an alarm system where I'm going to monitor your home security system. And if the alarm goes off, I'm going to call the cops. So there's there's there's certainly technology available to allow us I think to eh more independently in our own homes.

Daniel Franco: 1:17:02

It's really brilliant. Last time we spoke, you quoted and when you said something to me that I actually took away and write down. And I really, it can be quite? Well, I'll just say so you mentioned to me that Australia believes we are innovative. As much as we believe that we're not racist.

Terry Sweeney: 1:17:30

Oh, you put it out there. Okay. I can't go back.

Daniel Franco: 1:17:36

It's a really interesting comment. And can you elaborate on your thoughts around it?

Terry Sweeney: 1:17:43

Sure. Yeah, thanks for that clearly question. Well, I never shy away from a question or an opinion. Look, I think from the innovation point of view, we think we're an innovative country. And we're not. I'm clearly from my accent, I'm not originally from here. I've been a citizen for over 10 years. I love Australia with a passion. I choose to live here, I don't have to live here. And I think we live in a blessed country. It's a wonderful country. But we have some problems. And I think if in order to make things better, we need to recognize a few things, right. And I think from an innovation point of view, we think we're very innovative, and we're just not, we're just not and particularly when it comes to healthcare, and there are lots of good people out there doing good things, don't get me wrong. But as a nation, we're very conservative when it comes to digital health and healthcare technology. And it's not been embraced in you know, I've worked extensively in China, in Japan, and South Korea, Singapore, and those countries embrace technology and in health, they're very, very innovative, and they're willing to give something a try. It's the entrepreneurial mindset of a government. Now, I know that's not as easy in Australia with with with a short political cycle, where it's difficult to put in policies and procedures that last 10 or 15 years if you you know, if you're only in for three or four. But but you know, we see innovation from governments and in these, particularly these Asian countries, where we'll, we'll give it a try. And if it doesn't work, we'll try something else. And they're not frightened to feel. Here, we're a little more cautious, and we're a little bit more frightened to feel as, as a country. Therefore, I don't think we're seeing the innovative breakthroughs, or that or the entrepreneurial mindset that we see. And again, I use Israel as an example. You know, Israel doesn't have natural industry, and they don't have the resources than we have in Australia. And I think this is not a political statement. But as a country, we've gotten a bit lazy because we've relied on the natural resources that we find the iron ore and yeah, and in Israel, they don't have that. So they have to create and that's why I believe Israel is very, very innovative. backed up by government policy that encourages innovation, and it puts in the right economic factors and stimulus to it. Now, I'm sitting here in Adelaide and I see that in South Australia, actually, I think the South Australian Government is doing a wonderful job at the moment. It creating things like La 14 and allowing, no, we've attracted Google here, Amazon, Mt. X have just landed here. We have the space agency, the Cybersecurity Center. So there's definitely something working here. But this is a pocket in South Australia nationally. I don't I don't I don't see that. So I think we could be more innovative. The other thing I'm seeing from an innovation point of view is we have some really good homegrown talent that has to go overseas for funding. And we get that brain drain, particularly to the US. And that's still happening happening now. So I'd like to see more of a venture capital framework here in Australia, that really support homegrown talent and not shunts it. I think there's there's a tendency in Australia to look overseas to bring in the best talent in the world. Well, sometimes the best talent in the world is here. Yeah. And we have to recognize that we have to nurture that. So that's on the innovation side. more controversially, on the racism side, look, a couple of years ago, I'm going to meet in the UK. And he said, Terry said, from my point of view, there's a perception that that that Australians are inherently racist. And you've lived there for quite a while. I'm a middle aged white tech guy, what would I know? But what what's your view? And I thought about it for a while, and I think it's true, I think, I think, in Australia, we're inherently racist. The dangerous thing is most of us don't realize that we are, I think, you know, when when we see racial tensions in places like the US, it's a little bit more obvious, when someone has been racist. It's it's much more subtle here, which I think actually is more dangerous. We don't have the self awareness that we are largely largely, as a nation inherently racist, if you just look at the way we treat our indigenous population. And I, you know, I lived in New Zealand for a couple of years. And there are challenges there, of course, as well. But you know, the typical white European settler who's growing up in New Zealand for a few generations, would generally again, generally speaking, would would would revere the Maori culture, they promote it, and are very proud of it, and sing and sing the national anthem in in Mary, we we try to hide our indigenous population, actually. And I don't think we will openly address some of the challenges that that population has. So I think the answer was yes. Is yes, we're racist.

Daniel Franco: 1:22:58

Absolutely agree. The what is one of the key? Let's point out the obvious what is one of those subtle subtleties that you're seeing in people's behavior?

Terry Sweeney: 1:23:10

Look, I think I think the Adam Goodes example is a good one where, you know, he would often get booed, and but again, look, it's there's an argument. Well, you know, I would, I've seen David Beckham play soccer in the UK, right. And I booed him because he's good. And it's almost like a backhanded compliment. You're the best player on the team. I'm going to boo you to just kind of Gu up a little bit, right and try and put you off your game. So that's one thing. I genuinely believe with it with Adam Goodes situation is his. There will be a number of people in that crowd who are booing, because he is a strong, high profile, outspoken, indigenous person. Would some of those people who were booing still do that? If he was white? And I think the I think the answer is no, I'm not saying everyone. No boo. Tim was racist, because, you know, but

Daniel Franco: 1:24:01

then there are people who booed him because he pointed out a young girl in the crowd, correct? Yeah, yeah. So but but you are correct. Also, that you're right. If he was a white male, yes. Would that have happened? Probably not as severe as what it does. And it looky there. And that's not to say that the white men in AFL don't get booed or you know, talk about David Beckham they do, but that's because they might have hit someone or on the field or did something on the field. Yeah.

Terry Sweeney: 1:24:30

Or they're just a little bit too good looking. And, you know, it's like, I just want to bring him down a peg or two. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:24:34

But the simple fact that that but that ends in that game, right? It doesn't go on the simple fact with the Adam goods, one it carried on so yes, there must be something more

Terry Sweeney: 1:24:43

to there has to be something more to it. And I think just the profile of our indigenous population. Again, when I talk to friends of mine who live overseas, there don't have any visibility or awareness of the indigenous culture that we have here in Australia. But again, looking at a country like the New Zealand, everyone's heard of the merits. Right? And the obvious one would be that, you know, rugby would be part of them in terms of the hacker. But yeah, and that's an that's an obvious one. But but but you know, we I just think we need to elevate our indigenous culture a little more and be proud of it and promote it. So it is on the radar. And I think that will help us understand things a little a little better, we may not be able to solve all of the problems we have, but at least if we have an awareness, and a consciousness of what we're doing, but yeah, look, and you see similar things in the US right with with the First Nations people there as well. It's not It's artsy, it's a similar situation to what we have here in Australia. Yeah. So thanks for asking that.

Daniel Franco: 1:25:44

Yeah, that's right. i It's an important point to raise us anyway. Right? Because we really need to stop. I think Australia, you'd like you said, has has had the luxury of being very safe. And, you know, Adelaide just got the most livable city in the world. And rightly so. Yes, absolutely. The most livable. There's been most innovative, though, right. So I think we really need to take that into consideration is if we are going to move forward and we are going to catch up to you know, the Israel's of the world, as far as innovation can is is we view innovation, I should say, then, we really need to start looking at ourselves in the mirror. Yeah, not only from an innovation point of view, from the racism point of view, and I think that's why I really liked that comment when you made it, and I took it away and wrote it. So beginning back to the health and I we are sort of ending close to ending the podcast. So I'm really interested in what your future thoughts are and what the digital world of health looks like, you know, from booking our local GP to the top of the can we choose our own top of antibiotics that we want, you know, there's talk about vaccines at the moment is how I want Pfizer. I want AstraZeneca Oh, no one's actually saying I want to just, you know what I'm saying? So where we can actually we have choice in this as opposed to being told what we're doing? Can you expand on that?

Terry Sweeney: 1:27:08

Yeah, I think I think that's a that's a that's a good one. You know, my view is that, but, you know, healthcare is the last industry to where the consumer is not king or queen. Right? We, again, I go back to the the shopping analogy and using Amazon. It's a beautiful experience, you know, went on and just bought a new monitor here for the office. box that was Yeah. arrived within two days. I got all of the information from Amazon, to help me make an informed choice on and look at, some of that is they're promoting things they want me to buy, right, but But if we're conscious of that, and aware of that, then I don't see that as a problem. But I had all the information available. And then I made, I made an informed choice on the monitor that I that I bought. And it was delivered within a couple of days. And it was a great experience. And there has been follow ups and how can we improve the service. We don't have that in healthcare, we're far from it. So we are consumers of healthcare services. But but the service is imposed upon us, we don't have a choice on the type of service that we receive. And we don't necessarily always have the ability to give feedback on the service, and therefore give that information to other people to help them make an informed choice. It's consumerism, right? It's consumerism. And it's not it's it's happening in the US because 50% of the healthcare service in the US is value based care. So what they do in a value based care system to measure whether the health care service to that patient or population was successful is what radically, let's ask the patient, do you feel better? Do you feel satisfied after your hospital operation? How was your experience? We know right now in Australia, we're an activity based healthcare system. So your provider is paid a fee to deliver the service regardless of whether that service was delivered well or not. We're starting to see some providers being penalized for readmissions have the same problems. You didn't get it right first time. Yeah, we're gonna penalize you for that. But and but you know, we were just on the edge. I think, you know, we are talking in Australia, we talk about things called prompts and premises, patient reported outcomes and patient reported experience. Let's ask the patient about their journey through the healthcare system. So I think the future is consumer consumerism of health. It's to your point, it's giving all of the information to the patient to allow them to make an informed choice on which healthcare provider they will use the service that's been delivered to them and how it's been delivered. I want to come in face to face. I want to have it at home, we noticed the COVID the rise of telehealth, My God, how long have we had telephones for doesn't have to be video chatting has to be a call right?

Daniel Franco: 1:30:14

But even just to be able to pick a doctor based on how many stars that are what the over the reviews, yeah, and

Terry Sweeney: 1:30:21

we could do that with TripAdvisor if I if I go to Sydney, not at the moment. But if I if I go to Sydney and I want to choose a hotel, I can go on TripAdvisor get all the information. We don't really have that nurse healthcare provider. I went into

Daniel Franco: 1:30:33

it as a recruiting appointment at the doctor and the one it was sort of like I need to go in there today because I need to just get something checked and whatnot. I don't like waiting. And my, my general local GP down at Henley Beach was booked out and booked out to for a week and you could see it online and go on the app. And I said to my wife, where do you go because we got a different job but for some reason. And she says to me, Oh, I go to this doctor down the road. And he's quite good. I said, okay, cool. What's the website? She is now you get a call. So what's the what do you mean? I'm gonna call how old school is this? I don't want to call I want to just book online. She goes, No, no, you gotta call so I called. And they said, Yeah, we've got an appointment today come in at 1030 in the morning. So okay, cool. I walked in. And I sat down. Why did for fun, you know, filled out the new patient form whatever old school I don't even think the pen was clean. Yeah, there wasn't a clean pen in 30 pen. But I sat down, I filled out his patient form, handed it back in. And there was three people sitting across the room. And one of the guys looked pretty agitated on and he was an older guy pretty agitated. And then that we're talking, they were talking I was just looking at emails or whatever on the phone. He then turns to me, because I've been waiting here for an hour and a half. How long have you? How long have you guys been waiting for? And there was another little lady standing there she goes, I've been waiting here been an hour and 45 minutes. And I sat there and what? It for the doctors such and such, and they're saying yes. And I got up and I said went to the went to the receptionist and I said, Hey, is there an errand something wait for this to set? I you'll be here a while I said did you not think to tell me that when I walked in? I don't have two hours to sit here. And I actually walked out and I left. Yeah. And I didn't get to see

Terry Sweeney: 1:32:23

I think that's a common and unfortunately, that's a common scenario. I mean, it's not difficult from a tech point of view, to have a live tracking system, right? So you can see how far your GP is behind. Yeah. And then you can do other things with that time instead of sitting and waiting. But we it's also a mindset, you know, we, as consumers as patients, we're happy to, we're not happy, but we're willing to take we will sit for an hour and 45 minutes, right? Because really, we don't necessarily, you know, if I go into if I go into David Jones to buy something and I get crap service, I'm like, I'm out of here, I'll go, I'll walk down the road, you know, to Maya and buy in, buy it from there, I have choice. Yep, the consumer can do that. We need to get to a point in Hell, where the consumer, it's

Daniel Franco: 1:33:07

gonna, it's an expectation. From my point of view, I'm not sitting, I don't want to wait more than 15 minutes.

Terry Sweeney: 1:33:13

And you know that the best way to unlock that is moving to a value based care system, where the biggest measure of successful healthcare service delivery is the patient is the patient's experience. And as soon as you ask the patient, and as soon as you monetize that, so that providers not going to get peered. Unless that patient's had a good experience, then, look, and things will change. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:33:37

Lead with the problems, figure out what the problems are. Yeah, understand what they are, and then work back from there. I

Terry Sweeney: 1:33:42

think you've said that a few times. That's right. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So

Daniel Franco: 1:33:47

we're, we're gonna finish up the podcast, we've probably gone well over Yes, we have gone well over. I talk a lot. Now. That's another way of saying to Gabriela on the way here that we could. I feel like we could have spoken for two or three hours in the full Joe Rogan experience. So got some quickfire questions that we end up when we're big learners here at the creating synergy podcast. These can be quickfire sometimes they ask themselves, they're not depending on neurons is

Terry Sweeney: 1:34:16

trying to slow it down with my answers.

Daniel Franco: 1:34:19

But we're big, we're big readers. And I'm really interested in what you're reading right now.

Terry Sweeney: 1:34:25

Oh, my goodness. That's a good look. Yeah, I'm reading Dr. Norman Swans new book, which is really good. And it's a really good snapshot on what we think is good for us from a health and wellbeing point of view. A lot mentioned too much more than that because it'll spoil it but I think that's it. That's a fantastic read. And Dr. Swan is actually going to be down here in Adelaide I think talking at uni ESEA in August very which is fantastic. So we'll we'll be in there for that. But that's that's the read at the moment. Love him anywhere. Yeah, just talks a lot of sense when it comes to health. So that's That's what I'm reading right now. And I'm re reading a book called anti fragile. Nicholas. Nicholas Taleb. Yeah, that, you know, we we have a term fragile, but we don't have an antonym. There's there's so anti fragile. And that not quite chaos theory, but but that that check on economics is very, very interesting to me. So I'm rereading that one as well. So

Daniel Franco: 1:35:30

hard read for an it's a hard read. He's all his books are quite a difficult read.

Terry Sweeney: 1:35:34

I was fortunate enough. I met him I really in the US back in the day. And he he is a crazy in person as he is on the pitch. He has some out there theories on economics, but your character? Yeah, yeah,

Daniel Franco: 1:35:53

I do you like a black swan? Yes. Yeah,

Terry Sweeney: 1:35:57

very good.

Daniel Franco: 1:36:00

What is one personal development book that stands out for you?

Terry Sweeney: 1:36:05

Oh, well, I don't believe in personal development, which is just my everyone's, everyone's different. I don't I like to just read a bunch of different things, fact and fiction, and then just tear little things out for myself. But I don't think I've ever read a personal development book. In the same way, and I'm being very controversial here, in the same way that I don't think you can teach entrepreneurship and innovation. Yeah, I think you can give people a bit of a framework with some critical thinking, but I'm not sure it's something that you can teach. Now. I'm not. I'm seeing that because I haven't read it. And I haven't read a book on personal development. So I might be completely wrong. But it's something that I've never really been.

Daniel Franco: 1:36:52

Yeah, to. Well, the way our eyes sort of look at personal development books is more about and I really only read personal development books from people who have gone on to achieve some great things. Yeah. And you just learn from this story. Yeah,

Terry Sweeney: 1:37:07

I think that's very valid. We're learning from people's stories

Daniel Franco: 1:37:10

from their behaviors. You learn from their mistakes. Yeah, yeah.

Terry Sweeney: 1:37:14

That's kind of really where I yeah, that's, that's that's that's very fair. Very fair.

Daniel Franco: 1:37:18

Is there any podcasts that you listen to any other books? Other than creating synergy of

Terry Sweeney: 1:37:23

Yeah, I love the I was a bit of a fan of This American Life. It's the boys who went on to create gimlet Yeah, the podcasting platform. And I'm really listening to their podcasts around it's called Startup about how the is set up gimlet and you know, everything, anything from choosing the name, and they went after a cocktail and yet they've their view was or the the advice they got was, you just call it anything? It doesn't it doesn't really matter. For fans of the SILICON VALLEY TV SHOW or calling a company paid paper, it just doesn't matter. And so I really liked that kind of and you know, the fact that they got agreement to record their pitch sessions early on, so they would go in to VC meetings and record and record the in the good effort. That's absolutely fantastic. So I'm listening to that one again at the moment. I'm a sucker for for for Premier League Soccer. Yeah, so I listen to anything related to that. So I've got all the daily updates for the euro championships and BBC Sport and what have you so yeah, that

Daniel Franco: 1:38:33

I haven't seen Italy vs. England, England it

Terry Sweeney: 1:38:36

is in the final Yeah. 4:30pm time next Monday.

Daniel Franco: 1:38:40

That's almost me versus you. My backgrounds Italian. Oh, there you go. Australian through and through but my family and heritage jeez, Italians. Yeah, it'd be interesting. Oh, my family are all up watching, watching and putting up social media posts of them jumping up and down. Nice. Valley sleep far too much. I might yell at them. What's the final? Yeah,

Terry Sweeney: 1:39:03

the other the other one I'm listening to which is really interesting is Eddie Hearn who's a boxing promoter. Yeah. So Anthony Joshua. Yeah. Boxing Champion is under his management. And he has a podcast series where he has a different sporting guest and it's all about the the mindset maybe this is personal development, the the mindset of that particular athlete and how that can potentially translate into the business world. So a little bit but yeah, I spoke about earlier so that the Eddie Hearn podcast is a really good one to

Daniel Franco: 1:39:34

look personal development is a is all about mindset. It's really about application, how you take things on how you view things. One, going back to your mate Hugh Jackman, right, the Tim Ferriss podcast with Hugh Jackman is one of my all time favorites. I think if anyone wants to listen to that, because they do talk about learning and books and behaviors and habits that that he I mean, he's a very successful human being, whether whether it's from his body right which is over Isn't it a grind, but then also his mindset is just so strong and they're the learnings that I love.

Terry Sweeney: 1:40:06

I should probably listen.

Daniel Franco: 1:40:10

Make sure you send him this one too. Yeah. Get it, get into the back. Get him to like if you had if you could invite three people for Dino's typic question three people from for dinner? Who would you invite?

Terry Sweeney: 1:40:26

Oh, that's a really? It's an interesting one. It's a good it's a good one. And I kind of I probably chop and change. Who I would? Yeah, depending on my mood and what I'm what I'm doing at the time. The first one would be my wife, Anya. Because she's the person I turn to on a daily basis to seek advice and opinion and input into everything.

Daniel Franco: 1:40:54

You've just got the biggest tick in the morning. I love

Terry Sweeney: 1:41:00

keep the coffee's i Yes, I'd have because you've got to share the experience with the one you love. And that's right. It's only half an experience to me if she's not there. So she wishes she would have to be along alongside me. For sure. Look, I think it's a it's a it's a, an obvious one and an overused one. But I think, you know, Barack Obama would be one for me. I was fortunate enough to meet him and speak many speakers after him at a leadership conference in Korea in 2017. And I just find the guy fascinating as a human being and again, around, you know, that the stories and insights from him as a person very charismatic. So I think and I think he just be a little bit of fun as well. So I would definitely have have have him there for for sure. Look, I struggle with like who I'd want to bring to the to the to the table

Daniel Franco: 1:42:06

or going to dinner with his wife as well would be.

Terry Sweeney: 1:42:10

I think it would be Yeah, let's just call it dinner with you. And we'll, and we'll just we'll just we'll just leave it at that. That'll be that'll be fantastic. And Neil Finn would be there. And so I've been a tragic, Crowded House fan always have been, unlike a lot of people, you know, it's the soundtrack to our lives. I've seen them so many times as Crowded House as the Finn brothers even split ends back in the day. And for me, he's a musical God. So I would, I would have him at the dinner table and obviously try and get him to play a tune. While we're on that will be absolutely that'd be absolutely fantastic. And God rest his soul. My My granddad, I think he will be the last one very insightful man, as someone who grew up without a father. He was my father figure. And just a just a gentle giant. And gentlemen, a real gentleman. He passed away quite a few years ago now. And he always had a newer nonsense, little snippet or piece of advice. And I think, you know, I'd love to have him at the table as well. So that not not Yeah, not a fantastic answer. I

Daniel Franco: 1:43:24

don't think no, that's amazing answer. Don't don't discount that. No. What is some of the best advice that you have received? And it might be from your grandfather,

Terry Sweeney: 1:43:37

you probably gonna have to beat this one out. But Terry, you're doing a good job. Don't fuck it up. So just keep going. Just keep on just keep just keep going. Don't overthink it. I don't think I'm an over thinker. But in any walk of life, particularly in business, we do have sometimes we can we can get into that mindset of overthinking second guessing what we're doing. Make a plan, stick to the plan doesn't mean you can't change the plan. And you can't pivot. But but just don't overthink it. and believe in yourself. We mentioned that earlier on. If you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you. So believe in yourself first and the rest, the rest will there. You know, other people will buy into that if you buy into it yourself. So there are a few little snippets that are that people have told me but the Yeah, you know, don't mess it upon as probably no boss of mine. That was the best piece of advice that

Daniel Franco: 1:44:39

I got. Yeah, it's brilliant. Well, it makes you self reflect, doesn't it? It does. Yeah, very much. So if you had access to a time machine, and with a one way sorry, it's a two way trip. You could go forward and back. Where would you go?

Terry Sweeney: 1:44:54

Or the obvious one would be 1955. Like Back to the Future, right? Because that's given

Daniel Franco: 1:44:59

given that's already good.

Terry Sweeney: 1:45:02

Yeah. Oh, so this is new. I've never said this to anyone. Oh, ever love. I love I love my classical music. Oh, and I must admit I do too. Yeah, and Rachmaninoff is my favorite composer. And my absolute favorite piece of music in the in the world is Rhapsody on a theme by Paganini his Piano Concerto Number two, and I will travel back in time to 1912 ish, when that was kind of just released. Yeah. And have and have a conversation with Rachmaninoff, I'd have to learn a different language. But but that bring a translator? Yeah, I think that one would be that would be it's, it's

Daniel Franco: 1:45:48

that song done anything for you personally? Or is it just something you connect to

Terry Sweeney: 1:45:52

or it's something I connect to, it's very inspirational. And again, you know, Grunt, my mum would play she she's a monotone tragic. So my mum was a jazz singer in the 60s, in, in, in clubs, in smokey jazz clubs. So I grew up listening to like Ella Fitzgerald and Miles Davis, but also a lot of Motown or Motown Buddhist reading in the platters. So classical music is not an obvious choice for me. So I, that that was the first piece of classical music that I listened to got very emotional. When I first heard it, it touched me, it resonated with me, for whatever reason, so that that was very, very powerful. And that's always kind of stuck. That piece of musics always stuck with me. So it will be nice to go and meet the person who wrote that,

Daniel Franco: 1:46:41

yeah, add it to the Spotify playlist. If you could have one superhero power. What could it what would it be?

Terry Sweeney: 1:46:51

That's a good one. Make the ability to make coffee on demand. I can have that with my wife. That's why I was talking really nicely. baristas. And she's judged the World Barista politicians, she's really evolved. She's been across all the coffee grown countries around the world. So my invites in the mail invites the luckiest guy in the world. I wake up every morning, and she makes me pretty much the best coffee that you can get in Australia on a daily basis well being but she's not always with me. Always. So I think my superpower would be the ability to snap my fingers. Yeah, that'd be Yeah, that would be that would be fantastic. I think. But other than that, I've never been a I want to fly. Having visibility or live forever now.

Daniel Franco: 1:47:34

Just coffee. Just coffee until I just get it coffee on a drip.

Terry Sweeney: 1:47:38

That's right. That's right. Exactly. Exactly.

Daniel Franco: 1:47:41

What beans this is this is interesting, because I'm a big

Terry Sweeney: 1:47:45

law. No, we mix it up. I'd have to give you a list. We do we I should know.

Daniel Franco: 1:47:51

That's fine. But we know the drinking. Yeah. And last but not least, your father now seven month old. Eli. What? Tell us the best that joke. Well, by statute,

Terry Sweeney: 1:48:05

I have a seven year old to Antony. So seven years, seven year old and a seven month old. And I'll give you a joke that that my seven year old told me but I guess the ultimate dad joke is what is the soccer players favorite drink?

Daniel Franco: 1:48:25

What is the soccer players favorite?

Terry Sweeney: 1:48:27

Handle tea?

Daniel Franco: 1:48:31

It's hard. It's the best. So I think that's very relevant with euros on

Terry Sweeney: 1:48:36

it. That's that's my favorite danger.

Daniel Franco: 1:48:39

Excellent. Thank you very much for joining us today. Dr. Terry Sweeney for it's been an absolute amazing chat. Appreciate it. Thank

Terry Sweeney: 1:48:48

you so much.

Daniel Franco: 1:48:48

Where can we find you? And do you want people to get in contact with you love to

Terry Sweeney: 1:48:52

Yeah, so we're at dhcrc.com is our website. We're also on Twitter. And I'm also on Twitter and LinkedIn. Dr. Terry Sweeney edu I think is my Twitter handle. But yeah, catch me online, always really keen to hear from particularly the startup and scale of community on what they're doing the ideas that they have. Part of what we do at the CRC is to turn an idea into action and create impact for Australia. But we need the ideas. And believe it or not, it's harder to find the ideas than then than you'd think. So always very keen to have a chat with someone on ideas that they have things that they're working on, and looking for opportunities to partner.

Daniel Franco: 1:49:38

Brilliant. Thank you very much, guys. Thanks, Terry. It's been an absolute pleasure.

Terry Sweeney: 1:49:44

Thank you. Appreciate it.

Synergy IQ: 1:49:46

Thank you once again for joining us here at creating synergy. It's been great spending this time with you. Please jump on to the synergy IQ Facebook and LinkedIn page where the discussion continues after the show. Join our mailing list so you'll know what's happening next at Synergy iq.com.au and of course don't forget to subscribe to this podcast and if you really enjoyed it please share it with your friends