Creating Synergy Podcast

#30 - Cass Gannon on Creating an Innovation Culture

April 15, 2021 SynergyIQ
Creating Synergy Podcast
#30 - Cass Gannon on Creating an Innovation Culture
Show Notes Transcript

Cassandra Gannon, also known as Cass, is an Experienced Senior Leader and Innovation Specialist with a background across multiple sectors in mining, manufacturing, not for profit and local government.  

Currently working for the City of Marion Council as a Project Manager and Performance and innovation leader, Cass Gannon is known for her ability to scan the external environment for opportunities, particularly within the emerging technologies space.  

Besides being a mother of two 10-year-old twin girls, Cass is also a part-time lecturer at the Flinders University teaching Innovation and Creative Thinking and a mentor in the Flinders New Venture Institute's innovative manufacturing accelerator.  

Cass and Daniel spoke about innovation, disruption and leadership in this episode and touched on her learnings and experience within the local government space. 

A must-listen for those looking to create an innovative culture within their business, especially for those in the local government. 

If you enjoy this episode, please share it with your friends and colleagues, and check us out on synergyiq.com.au

Where to find Cassandra Gannon

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Say hello to our host Daniel on LinkedIn

Synergy IQ:

Welcome to creating synergy where we explore what it takes to transform. We are powered by Synergy IQ. Our mission is to help leaders create world class businesses where people are safe, valued, inspired and fulfilled. We can only do this with our amazing community. So thank you for listening.

Daniel Franco:

Hi, this is synergises and welcome back to another episode of The creating synergy podcast. My name is Daniel Franco and today we have the pleasure of having an innovation specialist on the show. Her name is Cassie Gannon. Cass is an experienced simulator and innovation specialist with a background across multiple sectors in mining manufacturing, not for profit and local government. She's currently working for the city of Marion as a project manager and performance and innovation leader and is known for our ability to scan the external environment looking for opportunities, especially within those emerging technology space. As a mother of two beautiful 10 year old twin girls. Cassie is also a part time lecturer at the Flinders University teaching your students about all things innovation and creative thinking. While on top of this is a mentor in the innovative manufacturing accelerator for Flinders new venture Institute. I absolutely love this chat with casters, we spoke about all things innovation, disruption, leadership, and we touched on their learnings and experiences within the local government space. This is a must listen for those who are looking to create an innovative culture within their business, especially for those who are within local government. I hope you enjoy. Welcome back to The creating synergy podcast. My name is Daniel Franco, your host and today we have an innovation expert by the name of Cassie Gannon Sandra Gannon, how are you?

Cassie Gannon:

Good, thank you. Well, Cassandra is my parent's name. So let me if I'm in trouble. So maybe Cassie is good. Stick with test

Daniel Franco:

perfect cast. Because we are going we do have a theme on innovation today I'm going to ask where start off a bit differently. And I'm going to throw two words out there. And I want to see if you can pick up what I'm going I'm actually trying to achieve again. All right. You're intrigued. Yeah.

Cassie Gannon:

Yeah. Interesting.

Daniel Franco:

Willy Wonka.

Cassie Gannon:

Ah yes, Chocolate Factory

Daniel Franco:

Chocolate Factory.

Cassie Gannon:

You can elaborate on that. Yeah, so Willy Wonka, for me means manufacturing chocolate in Adelaide. In other words is good.

Daniel Franco:

That's where you started. That is where you have worked previously in your career is

Cassie Gannon:

one of my one of my jobs in manufacturing. So I always think of Willy Wonka, adventure, creativity, and all the fun I had in my time in manufacturing in general.

Daniel Franco:

Beautiful. So tell us a little bit about how working in a biscuit factory got you to where you are today as an innovation expert.

Cassie Gannon:

It's interesting, because I think it goes back to even before then I started in glass manufacturing and mining, equipment manufacturing, and was always pegged as someone who came up with good ideas, but then make them happen. Because everyone has great ideas. And it's about innovations, to me isn't just about great ideas. Lots of people have great ideas, but it's around creating value for users in it. And with that, whatever the value is, and being able to put those ideas into action that creates value in your context is where I have always loved working. And so if I look at my time in glass manufacturing, I think you know, back when I started in class manufacturing, they had autonomous vehicles. Oh, really? Yeah. And I'm not telling you when because they give away my age. Or, you know, they're talking like technologically very advanced. Yeah, well, and so when you're in that kind of incubation space, and you're forming your career around in an environment that encourages taking risk, and has probably a lot of money to do so. It shapes you in a really fascinating way. And you I think, for me seeing something so advanced early in my career was very formative because each workplace I've gone to some of those things are still not in place in some of the sectors of their joints. So it gives you a vision of the future and what's possible.

Daniel Franco:

So the glass factory had automated vehicles, autonomous vehicles. And on it when you moved over to there, they didn't.

Cassie Gannon:

They had a lot of innovation happening, but I was able to get across the line, a large improvement capital works improvement project, which was automating the manual case packing on the end of the line. So putting in robotics, using advanced technology to kind of solve the people problem.

Daniel Franco:

So going back before that, what's your what's your background? Then looking obviously manufacturing, but did you study? What did you study at university?

Cassie Gannon:

a Bachelor of minerals processing?

Daniel Franco:

Oh, wow. So something completely out of the ordinary from an innovation perspective?

Cassie Gannon:

Yes. I if you want to talk about material science, happy to talk about so technical background, all things gold, gold, flotation.

Daniel Franco:

I will talk shares after way to invest. So you've started working in glass factory on its biscuit factory, you've seen a lot of innovation and forward thinking, where did your career go from there?

Cassie Gannon:

So it's fascinating. This is a really pivotal point. And I believe in I'm not sure it's light bulb moments, but things coming together that pivot your career pivot your life in general, and I have a 10 year old twin daughters. So it's quite pivotal when it would be changing your life. And it creates this new sense of purpose. And definitely, and it was very fascinating for me that when I was on maternity leave, I got more sleep with newborn twins. And when I was at my biscuit factory, yeah.

Daniel Franco:

Wow. Is that just purely? You're running yourself into the ground? Oh,

Cassie Gannon:

interesting point, maybe. But it's also being on Paul. Peak, I was doing it was manufacturing manager there. And so if the line break down, on a 24/7 operation? Yeah, the buck stops.

Daniel Franco:

So you got a bit of a break. So you got a bit of a break when you're doing sales? Yeah. Which, which people find hilarious, which is a bit odd. I struggled. We struggled with money

Cassie Gannon:

didn't. can try. Just kidding. But um, so with with the girls, I went, how am I going to sustain this going back into the workplace, in that kind of environment. And I was looking for a much more I suppose, family friendly sector. And my dad has come from a long line of public servants. I broke the mold going into the private sector. So yeah, going, looking at my family, I thought, well, I'll look around in the government. And I landed a gig in local government,

Daniel Franco:

in local government. Yes. And your career took a turn from there.

Cassie Gannon:

Yeah. And I think when I reflected, it's funny, I actually had a lot of time to reflect when I was at home on maternity leave. And I found that in. In that reflection, I thought, well, I've had these girls, I'd like to spend time with them. But I also found that I wanted to give back to the broader community. And I thought oh how can I do that? If I don't want to go back into that manufacturing space? How can I transfer skills, manufacturing, being an engineer, manufacturing management background, into another sector? And so I looked at what I had to offer and I thought, oh, lean manufacturing is something people talk about, I've done six sigma, pts Primo, facilitation, all these skills added to an interesting opportunity in Business Process Improvement and Innovation.

Daniel Franco:

Looking, just going into your mindset of wanting to give back to the community, is that something that's sort of intrinsic in you? Where's that come from? Have you always been, you know, working worked in a giving ways in the sense of always trying to do your best for South Australia, or the community that you work in?

Cassie Gannon:

Yeah, I think for me, I've always ended up taking a mentoring role in any organization I'm in or giving extra You know, when you volunteer to get across staff to be involved in this program or that program on a voluntary basis. I've always put my hand up. But also, I think, intrinsically, I grew up in a very low socioeconomic area in South Australia. And you know, uni I was a mentor for other students from low socio economic background. So then coming into the university environment, often I found a lot of my peers that union first year had people I went to school with, I had, not many, even I don't think I had anyone, any stream I was doing and so on. I would mentor them in their first few months in uni, teach them some of the skills, you know, connect them in social groups and support.

Daniel Franco:

What drove you to do that? And like, why step outside of your comfort zone?

Cassie Gannon:

I think about, you know, how would I feel if I had that? And I did my life. So I think every year 12 chemistry teacher, he took on an extra workload so that he could do he taught chemistry, because if we couldn't, I couldn't have gone into the engineering degree I wanted. And there were weren't enough students, for him for the school to run the program. So he took on an extra workload and if you haven't done that, I think there's another

Daniel Franco:

What's his name? Can we are

Cassie Gannon:

Mr. Wilkie

Daniel Franco:

What school

Cassie Gannon:

parallel?

Daniel Franco:

So, Mr. Wilkie from parallel? Is he still there? I think he's listening.

Cassie Gannon:

Please. Thank you so much. And it's interesting, too, because two other peers in that group ended up doing engineering as well.

Daniel Franco:

It's amazing. I've got a few friends that is school teachers and we often have this conversation and and how much influence one human being can have on a young child or young teenager growing up in the crazy, you know, what one comment can change someone's life really is is really poor to always be considering the words that we're saying.

Cassie Gannon:

And be kind. I think, it also is interesting, because that is an interesting segway into another thing I'm doing in lecturing in innovation, and

Daniel Franco:

giving back here, yes, yes. You're actually going into that your city Marion now, yes, working in an innovation project management space, doing a lot of interesting things there.

Cassie Gannon:

Yes, we implementing a new customer relationship management system for our community.

Daniel Franco:

Excellent. It's always a handy thing to have to keep track of, and get some good data from it. And Flinders uni so you're lecturing at Flinders, what are you doing?

Cassie Gannon:

It's, I'm lecturing, I'm part of the innovation and enterprise Academic Team, and I'm lecturing in innovation and creative thinking.

Daniel Franco:

Brilliant. So how do you become an expert in innovation?

Cassie Gannon:

I think you can be an expert. Yeah, yeah, that's an interesting term. For me, I think you can always know. You just build your craft. So I think I'm a practitioner.

Daniel Franco:

So what are we what are we teaching these children that I walk in? And we go right over and I learn about innovation? What are we teaching them?

Cassie Gannon:

A lot of it's empathy with others. So we teach a design thinking framework. And we could only take them through that process where they feel uncomfortable, we're in a safe environment. So we're asking, you know, it's a mixed cohort from many different discipline backgrounds. So you've got first year IT students. You're saying, Okay, well, we have our course topic coordinator, said, you know, it's a good idea to have a real problem to solve, because otherwise, you end up with problems, like my internet is slow. Facebook problem, yeah. So we're aligned to the UN sustainability goals. And so we asked them to choose on a boat to work on and then we say, Okay, we'll have empathy. For quality education on absolutely no, gender equality, that kind of thing.

Daniel Franco:

The UN sustainability, what can you quickly describe what they are?

Cassie Gannon:

Well, I think they're the, they're the goals of the UN for the next period of time, I've had the dates, but around world peace, justice for all, life below water, and they're basically the world

Daniel Franco:

life below water. As in, looking after the fishing, everything created. Okay, so now putting a glass Little House underneath. So looking after the ecosystem underneath, what you can see, essentially the reefs and the fishing,

Cassie Gannon:

and in this climate change is one of those things.

Daniel Franco:

So when you teach to that, from an innovation perspective, how does it all bundled together? Well,

Cassie Gannon:

I think that design thinking framework, does that does that for you? Yeah. But you go through a number of phases of diverging and converging problem space, you try and understand that really deeply. And you do that by having empathy with those who have the problem. Yeah, it's in that ecosystem and understanding where they're coming from. Yeah. And then once you've got that you converge around what problem you're trying to solve. And then you do the same for solution.

Daniel Franco:

Brilliant! Brilliant! What In your opinion, what are the most critical factors Innovation.

Cassie Gannon:

I like to call it creative risk taking

Daniel Franco:

creative risk taking. I like it!

Cassie Gannon:

So for me, if you can't take risk or calculated, really, you need to be able to assess and take risk without too much consequences if it doesn't go right, because if you just play the Safe Road, it will never lead anyway. And

Daniel Franco:

so being strategic about the risks is that when you talk about strategic risk taking or creative risk taking, is that require a lot of thought process into actually trying to figure out what we're what we're going to innovate? How do you come up with ideas? How do you? Where do you? What's the low hanging fruit to start thinking or creating a culture of innovation?

Cassie Gannon:

The low hanging fruit for me is something like, for example, at the city of Marion innovation is one of our corporate values. That right straightaway, yep, puts a topic on the table, we have our performance management process aligned around that. So you have one of our things in our performance development plans is innovation, how are you living that value. And then we have leadership capabilities aligned to that to say, being innovative and creating a culture of innovations expected?

Daniel Franco:

By so when you say innovation is one of the values which in my head tells me which we actually want to create a culture of innovation. So we're, we're open to mistakes, we're open to failure, we're open to losing money. That's Well, this is a this is the question I knew that's where you're gonna go with because especially in the government space, local government space, innovation can cause what some some financial hardship purely because you might have gone down a path and spend a bit of money and it didn't work. But it's the learnings that come from that, how do we justify to the community that we want to try something new? That may not work?

Cassie Gannon:

Oh, that's so difficult. Such a difficult question. I think it's about gaining trust, you have to do things on a platform of trust. And you do that over time by delivering the basics well, and with excellence. So for me, what comes into my head is there's a really great in it space, Garden, a model around it systems, there's a Gartner dotnet see me, no Model S either by subscription. It's amazing, Scott, excellent. They're really amazing source of information and best practices. For me, what they talk about is you have systems of record, which might be your finance system, IT systems of differentiation, which you know, you could say assets might go in there or other things, and they have system of innovation. And those systems, you should govern in a different way. And I view the same in my head is innovation. So you might have continuous improvement for local government would be 90%, of what you do. And then the next layer of adjacent innovation, which is taking an idea that already exists, and just tweaking it to make it better, yep, based on user feedback and problems you've identified would be like 8%, and the one or 2% will be that out there innovation when you're talking like Uber Oh,

Daniel Franco:

yeah, cuz there's this common misconception that you need to spend millions of dollars to innovate, right? It's not just in technology, but it's the way we think about our customers and what we're delivering to them and how we can add value to them and processes where we can save money. And people in the business generally know where some of those areas where we can improve straightaway.

Cassie Gannon:

Yes. So and that's why I think it's very contextual innovation. So in class manufacturing or big miners, you might be able to spend a million dollars on something and take a risk. Yeah. And if it doesn't pay back oops, yeah, we made 100 million over

Daniel Franco:

here. We learn$100 million lessons.

Cassie Gannon:

However in local government, or even stay any government, I would say, you'd be looking at continuous improvement as the bulk yes of your effort makes sense framework small steps Yeah, structure then it's like the system of record in it. With financial one that heavily governed you don't want people innovating on your payroll system. If it makes people I get paid correctly,

Daniel Franco:

Correct, yeah, it's it's not. It's doing Yes. Small steps, I think is probably the best way of explaining it is hallowee improve efficiencies? Yes.

Cassie Gannon:

And I think if you as a customer, so that generally things were improving over time. Rates didn't go up 20% over three years. That's where you gain trust.

Daniel Franco:

Absolutely. So long term game you get to play can't just come in, swing the axe and go right out. We're gonna bring in this new widget.

Cassie Gannon:

No.

Daniel Franco:

Because you're right, though, look at even for me, as you know, looking at my Council, I believe. That's I mean, the City of Charleston council night, and I believe that they're very forward thinking and they're always improving things. And to be honest, if they will not. If they were not improving things, I would then question what what are they doing? So yeah, the continuous improvement becomes an expectation from the from the community.

Cassie Gannon:

And if you look at generally society, so society pressures, that we exist in a society, and the expectations of businesses or governments change over time, and you need to keep up with that, otherwise, people will, why do you need to be?

Daniel Franco:

Absolutely. So do you think local government and government in general might be different? But do you think one of the biggest drivers of innovation is competition?

Cassie Gannon:

Yeah. And that's interesting when you think of it in a government context, because who is your competitor? yourself? Yeah, yeah.

Daniel Franco:

Well, there are some businesses. utilities, specifically in South Australia who have somewhat of a monopoly. So being innovative, how do you stay ahead of the curve when you don't really need to, I guess, in in from the financial perspective, because

Cassie Gannon:

interesting, because it's also about do you want to keep your staff? Or Yes, you can be bringing in money and the monopoly, but you have nowhere to deliver those services. Because you're a backward organization. Culture isn't very great to be in. Yeah. You know, there's some there's that proposition too. And I think, if I think about employee experience, and the correlation to customer experience, there's so right there around why would you? Yes, or you'd end up like Kodak. Correct? Yes. The other thing, right. Some listeners might be too young to know that, but you know, the digital camera. You don't even buy film anymore. But they fail to innovate. And that's, that's easy to understand from a competitive private business perspective. But it's the same in government. If you don't keep up someone will replace you.

Daniel Franco:

Absolutely. We you think Kodak is one Nokia? Oh, yeah. Is the other one. You know, he's still around. Yeah. The 8250 I had the highest snake score you could ever get on that. I was the envy of all my friends. I, they were one but they're still making billions of dollars a year. But they were they could be they should have been the world leader. They were. They were by far and away ahead of everyone else. And then Mr. Mr. Jobs came, came up with something different. And however, the

Cassie Gannon:

reason that Apple over took is because he gave consumers what they didn't even know they needed. Yes. And that is empathy.

Daniel Franco:

Yeah, thinking about something in a way that you haven't seen before. There's there's a Adelaide startup company called space talk.

Cassie Gannon:

Oh, yes. I've got their watches. Amazing. I love them.

Daniel Franco:

Brilliant. So they are of a shareholder. Recent recently recently,

Cassie Gannon:

We might need to talk after that

Daniel Franco:

Well, I only only because they're on the icex right service system. I'm actually trying to get the CEO on the on the on the podcast, and we'll talk about that another time. But they look at their company and you know, being an Adelaide based company in South Australian podcast. We are really interested in what's happening around the world around sorry, South Australia from a startup perspective. They were able to think about something in a different way. But for so long. I've always thought how do I get in contact with my children when they're at school? Yeah, and I don't want them to get into social medias. I don't want them to have a phone. I don't want them to bring in their friends, texting the person taking photos and exactly taking photos. 100% and left solve This problem by threading is what? So you say I actually look at that from the same perspective is

Cassie Gannon:

that would you have said you needed a watch to call your kid?

Daniel Franco:

No, I was thinking.[inaudible audio]. How do I get one without a camera, but then I

Cassie Gannon:

A year ago? lose it?

Daniel Franco:

Well, my mind went down the on the old iPod, going back to the iPod, and actually being able to control something like that. So it was like, almost like a phone. But without the thing, the App Store, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's brilliant. So going back into local sort of a government perspective of innovation, how do you innovate in a world of bureaucracy and red tape? And and how do you avoid so if you're, if you have innovation as, as you one of you values, and I'm not specifically talking about Maryam, talking about in general, then to get something over the line, you got to get it signed off? 16 times by up there? Are you being really true to your value of innovation? If that's the case?

Cassie Gannon:

Well, I think it's about a seven. So for going back to that continuous improvement, phase 100%, you need governance around those things. But you can set up a framework that addresses that figure and type program. And then you almost it's not a delegation, formally, in government, governance, but you almost don't, you can delegate levels of risk that you're happy for people to take signed off by their team leader or signed off by their manager, and then you let them loose within those boundaries. So you create that for the bulk of your progress. And then for the next level, you will think about, okay, well, what business case do I need? What return on investment? Are we going to maybe get out of here and return isn't just financial? So you know, is there a huge customer experience improvement? of trust is or legislative compliance improvement? Yeah, those kind of things.

Daniel Franco:

So this structure

Cassie Gannon:

whether, you can be creative and free within

Daniel Franco:

Yeah, so it's not it. Perfect. So I was gonna say, it's not about just saying, you know, someone out in the region, or whatever it might be, like, go try something new and go, Hey, I was being innovative. I was living to the values. It's about working within a structured,

Cassie Gannon:

structured so that there's freedom within that, if that sounds counterintuitive, you still you're setting up a framework, but framework gives you boundaries,

Daniel Franco:

where you're empowering people to make choices

Cassie Gannon:

with your templates, then you coach. And that's, I think, a huge role.

Daniel Franco:

So we're empowering people to change. Small stuff. Big stuff, I need to ask questions. Yeah.

Cassie Gannon:

And I think that's reasonable from a cost perspective and a public transparency. And, and, you know, we're entrusted with that. So we need to respect that. Yeah. I think if I said to, oh, I'm going to put up a new initiative bid and get council to sign off on the 100k. Where I can just play, do what I think is cool. Yeah, I don't think that would sell well, on the front cover of advertise. No. Yeah, right. So well, but

Daniel Franco:

exactly, yeah. So looking back, at CD, American, or any local government, or government organization, or public company or private company, that might be at a point where they're saying, right, oh, I need to innovate. Where do we start?

Cassie Gannon:

I mean, you have to start with leadership and culture. And it has to come from the top. So it has to be led from the top, but delivered from the bottom. So there's a you know, if you draw the pyramid of hierarchy, like the CEO at the top executive, yep. The five

Daniel Franco:

the five level, yeah.

Cassie Gannon:

upside down. That's what innovation is about. So it's, you get the Y from the top. Yep. But the half from the bottom.

Daniel Franco:

So the larger mass of people are the ones that understand where we need to innovate more. So yes, not the board of directors not to say

Cassie Gannon:

they might know the problems that we're facing and the why it's so important, but you've got to share that so that people are motivated. Yeah, change, because it was just because we think it's a good idea. Yeah. No, no.

Daniel Franco:

Well, I think what you said before, it's best starting small and generally it's that frontline. That will understand the small work spaces to start and the small areas to start. What can we improve, do to improve?

Cassie Gannon:

Do you know how exciting it is when you get a team of frontline workers to stand up in front of the executive team, and pitch their idea and share? Why it's a good idea why customers think we need it? And what it's going to bring to the business? Yeah.

Daniel Franco:

It's bit like Shark Tank, I'm looking to 20 hit $300,000 investment for 20% of my company. Yeah, that's brilliant. Yeah, that, yeah, it would be very exciting, especially for them because they're, they're able to enact some change.

Cassie Gannon:

And then you take them through one process like that, and then that filters into everything that they do from there. So then you get this organic growth that just, you know, create a movie, so to speak. Absolutely. Yeah.

Daniel Franco:

So your advice to leaders who are looking to become more innovative, is to look at your frontline. Is that your advice? Or is there any other advice that you would have

Cassie Gannon:

a good stab at trusted people speak to them, and walk, spend a day in their shoes. So there's a great, I'm not a purist in my approach, I adopt the best I build my toolkit, and I adopt the best tool for the situation. So I don't say go and do lean thinking, go into six sigma, you must do. Plan, do check act,

Daniel Franco:

Pro software chain, there's so many other ways to skin a cat. But it's

Cassie Gannon:

about what makes sense for you contextually using a wage that is meaningful in your business. So I remember when I joined, I actually went from manufacturing into the city of restaurants. And starting there, I thought, Oh, we can talk about going to gamba. And during combat boots, we can talk about visual management. And we can talk about going to see and walking a mile in someone's shoes. Anyways, making the language because if you make the language barrier instantly, people think oh, I don't want to look silly. So don't isolate through some of that kind of years.

Daniel Franco:

Yes. Well in, in a culture, an innovative culture, asking silly questions. Is would be welcoming. Yeah, but it's just starting. Correct. Might be still a few egos floating around. Hey, Eddie overcome a you know, someone that he could put together a good idea, we put it forward, and it just keeps getting shut you shut down even though you know, this is the best idea for the customer. There would definitely be frontline management. Who would would feel the executives aren't listening to me? How do we handle those situations?

Cassie Gannon:

I think it's a great opportunity for coaching and development. Because you know, you can do the enough work. And the insight and understanding, I think he can get most things across the line, if that makes sense. But there could be a point where you certain decision makers have information that you can't have access to. And that's when you have to trust that maybe after a few goes, maybe you need to start again. challenge your own thinking around what you're putting up

Daniel Franco:

with your I think coaching is a huge part because you think about you mentioned before building a business case, right? And asking the frontline management or frontline team to build a business cases for people who may very well be you know, fitter and Turner's and welders and whatnot, who haven't really got that skill set to build a businesses. This is just what we know. I mean, I can make it we just need to make make hundreds of it or whatever it might be. And we're so we need some cash to be able to do it. How do we get? How do we get those ideas across the line?

Cassie Gannon:

I think I always I always always that's often

Daniel Franco:

shouldn't say should. Or sorry. I tried to strip out a cabinet come back in they do. We actually we said it before language is such a important thing very

Cassie Gannon:

very influential. I feel like I often have been asked in through my career as an improvement and innovation practitioner. Why do you need that role in an organization? Because does that make them responsible for arriving early? Are you saying they're the only innovative person you know and aside? Well, no. But for me, if you want that skill set in your business and you don't have it, how do you get it you bring in someone who can set up the framework, the template coach, developing To build internal capability is always a critical piece. And then, you know, my role is always to do myself out of a role. Yeah, absolutely. I should be. Okay. Yeah, that's my alternative. In any organization.

Daniel Franco:

How do I fix this place that made me more?

Cassie Gannon:

Well said help, so they can hurry I Well, yeah, exactly. And I think I always love I had a person during to the Marian, this last week from what the other councils have worked. And then I Oh, I don't know if you remember me, I'm not 100% I remember you. Were still using the visual management board that you talked to us about me developed as a team with you. Six years ago? Yeah. Well, and I'm like, Oh, they said, it's completely different. It's digital. And I love it. But I gave you some kind of permission to play. Yeah, do something that works for you. And not you're told you need to do from your leadership, you know, often you get reporting requirements that you need to deliver on or, you know, just general operational management. But how do you want to run your team as a team? You can come up with that together if it's not working change?

Daniel Franco:

Absolutely. So you make a good point. It's almost like you need a chief interrupting you. within the company, there is someone who actually is always listening to those ideas and understanding the perspectives of the frontline or middle management or whatever it might be. You're trying to bring in new ideas, but don't actually really 100% sure how to get it over the line.

Cassie Gannon:

Yes, but the has the skill set to work with the people get the insight out of them, because they have that. And then the skill set to maybe support the business case being created?

Daniel Franco:

Absolutely. From a latest perspective, I MLS data and I want to introduce innovation into my business, what behavioral behavioral skill sets do I need? You said before culture and leadership is to the most.

Cassie Gannon:

Yeah, the start of stuff Absolutely. to the to the, you know, main pyramid, TPS stuff. You got to have leadership as a foundation

Daniel Franco:

leadership is the foundation so so what is a skill? Well, because to me leadership, we're talking leadership behaviors, we're not talking leadership,

Cassie Gannon:

as you know. For me, it's about open door kind of policy, you know, someone who will listen and hear what people are saying, Be comfortable with being challenged on their own views. I think it's also really important that they have the ability to trust their staff to take some risks, without consequence, or with a consequence that is Oh, yeah, that didn't go so well. Let's talk about next time. So learning from rather than punishing for mistakes, that's really important, otherwise people will happen. Yeah, absolutely. But I think leaders coach, if I couldn't make a love analogies, they work for me and yeah, I think of a sports coach. Or if you're doing any kind of night I I have dabbled in weightlifting over time. And without a great coach, it's very hard to improve on your own. Yes. But if the coach is yelling at me and suck, then that's not really very motivating. Or feifei Oh, and their feedback.

Daniel Franco:

It's finding that Goldilocks zone for each person isn't really understanding what what influences them.

Cassie Gannon:

Yeah, and I think the other thing is is to realize that not everyone thinks motivated or learns the way you do. So there's a variation in that yes, and that's quite critical to kind of tap into so

Daniel Franco:

if you are that chief entrepreneur or you are a leader that is trying to you know, push the innovation innovative culture onto the onto the staff of workforce is that something that you really need to consider is the way everyone learns so go through going through you know, sort of communicating in different ways

Cassie Gannon:

so for me, I think I think in the CRM space or sorry, acronyms, customer relationship management space,

Daniel Franco:

you what you do work through government, why

Cassie Gannon:

do you think of omni channel, something we think you know, every customer if you think of their personas, and who they are, as people want to stay engaged by reaching out, maybe not everyone wants to engage with coming in. Not everyone wants to engage with I, internet, there's multiple ways people want to receive and give information. And that translates directly to learn. And so I think about you know, in a program, you want to have multiple problems. So I always focus on capability building, so internal capability, you get a coalition of a winning together, go with the energies and get your change champions can use improvement champions, league thinking champions, whatever terminology works for you fought form that coalition and then you know, upskill them, then they can start coaching others, you know, it's that building that

Daniel Franco:

ecosystem? Yes, do you? So there's interesting question for me, he's always been innovating to the point where it may adversely affect a section of your work or part of your clientele, use the government, local government example you move to, how can how can our clientele or our customer base or community contact us and a letter in the post is no longer viable? Right. But that might, it might be legislated? In what sense

Cassie Gannon:

that the law says you must connect with an inviting to what is right in Maine.

Daniel Franco:

So you know, there's that Well, yeah, so well, even just from the less technology, like technologically advanced people, you know, the older generation who want to make a hard landline phone call or isolate? How do you not isolate them? Or do you make the decision? 8020 rule most people? Yeah, so where does that all for you shake shaking?

Cassie Gannon:

It's fascinating, because in some in private industry, so you say space talk. If I was thinking about their business model, and the persona groups, they were going after, we both might fall into that very nicely. My mother in law probably met. So you can say out don't need to include?

Daniel Franco:

Well, that's a more of a it's more of an avatar thing is, I've got my target market, which is the young families of the world. Yeah.

Cassie Gannon:

However, in a government context, we have to serve the community as a whole.

Daniel Franco:

But if, if there's a minority group, yes, that could potentially cost the government, you know, three$400,000 a year to keep that in place? Is it? Is it worthwhile? Is it?

Cassie Gannon:

Well, it's about what value means? So I think that'd be about there'd be a lot of consideration into that. So for example, with our system, we need to consider that there are people who want to come to the front counter and talk to a person Yes, I can libraries, if you look at I love libraries. Yeah, libraries,

Daniel Franco:

will ask you some book questions later.

Cassie Gannon:

And if you think about that, when a lot of the libraries in South Australia move to radio frequency identification, so RFID tagging, and or kind of self check in and out, they still offer that to a reduced capacity, the ability to scalability, speak to someone get them to check your stuff in and out. But they might do it in a mobile way. So it's more efficient for government, but it still feels and meets the customer need, which is I can talk to a person because I might be quite isolated at home and coming to the libraries work. Yeah. Speaking to another human. Yeah. And I think that's about what's the value we bring as a sector. And that's not just efficiency with ratepayer money, or whatever. But it's Yeah.

Daniel Franco:

When I'm just thinking about competition, and looking at,

Cassie Gannon:

we're very competitive Council, the council just say, not really

Daniel Franco:

well. It's funny because well, that's gonna be my next question. It's because because people can live really where they can afford to live in some councils. You look at the burn sides of the world and what not mine, people just can't choose to live there because they can't afford to buy

Cassie Gannon:

councils unless you move physical property. So yes, let's choose who your council is,

Daniel Franco:

at the moment unless you can choose your council if you choose to live in this from a suburb perspective. Yeah. So with that being said, our council sharing ideas

Cassie Gannon:

100%. So really fascinating question, because when I came out of private industry where, for example, you know, I couldn't go down to Smith chips. We made chips as an employee of Campbell honor to make chips at the time. Yeah. and say, Hey, how are you doing? Yeah, efficiency

Daniel Franco:

knock you out of this, though. Yeah.

Cassie Gannon:

However, I went, Oh, we all do similar things. I think we've got the Local Government Act, which kind of determines what bare minimum you do. You're legislated to do. But then there's other optional services that get sponsored or paid for by Council. And they can be quite unique. But there's a broad brush with libraries do hate, we do rubbish collection, you know, things like that. playground playgrounds. But also how none of us are direct competitors. So why not connect. And it was interesting, because at the time, someone else came out of he actually was in the armed forces. And he joined another local government organization. And we got connected by we did a course at the union say, with the lean leadership course. And the facilitator connected, I say, I love connections.

Daniel Franco:

Yes, people collect them, just like me,

Cassie Gannon:

especially in Adelaide. So great. Yeah, so that was my like uni essay. But we formed, we started up the local government, continuous improvement network. And that was about has to be about eight years ago, eight or nine years ago, and is still going nowadays, I was the chair for the first two or three years that I left the sector briefly and dallied in, not for profit, and then rejoined the sector. But that's a platform for sharing, because why reinvent the wheel? And what happens is there's and there's a similar network for IT professionals. There's networks like that all throughout local government. And I think the thing we do really well is collaborate, because you cannot afford for each council to have an expert in this and expert in that. So if the council does have that, how can you leverage

Daniel Franco:

means everyone wins? It's we're doing it yourself.

Cassie Gannon:

And I think the other amazing thing about Marian is that, and you'll be glad to hear this is the right pair of Chester. We've got a collaborative partnership with city of Chester and put our lead in. And we work we've got shared resources across there that actually employed under the banner of three councils.

Daniel Franco:

What's new? Oh,

Cassie Gannon:

yeah, it's quite innovative in itself. I was sprouting up. And I'm very happy to be a part of that

Daniel Franco:

extra chips in a little bit of budget and kind of work. Yeah. Who do they answer to?

Cassie Gannon:

Interesting, there's, I believe there's a governance body. But they have a reporting lines, dotted lines, second matrix structure. And I think it's moving towards a future of work where the hierarchy thing doesn't come in, you know, you have teams of teams forming around problems, rather than aligning this team. So I'm doing this stuff. And it's about for me, it's about future, and that's the way it feels.

Daniel Franco:

so crazy question, but with that concept in mind, will ever all become one.

Cassie Gannon:

Oh, it could have been the state government.

Daniel Franco:

Yeah.

Cassie Gannon:

I think he can be bigger. So you know, I think we have 68. Yeah. governance. Yeah.

Daniel Franco:

Well, you've there's been a lot that's combined previously, like Charles Sturt. is the perfect example of where two councils have fought. Yes. All three of your westerns. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Correct.

Cassie Gannon:

outlaws frame, Elizabeth, make placement. But I think you could This is so for me. I've, since joining the sector, question the three layers of government we have. And I think COVID really showing how we loosely coupled countries is really fascinating. But without three layers, local government is called local government. So there's the risk of becoming too big. And there's a tyranny of size. And I think, yeah, that's true. So how do you serve a population? That's so diverse? Yes. If you become too big, Ty's date of

Daniel Franco:

sound is true. Yeah. Especially from a property perspective. How do you keep you Yeah, yeah. That's interesting. That's a bucket of bucket of worms. Moving back to sharing ideas, you know, you talked about the three council sharing ideas working together, local councils, connecting you know, and you chaired that what Sorry, what was that continuous continuous network across gasps and then looking at the private companies, which are in very much competition, keeping to themselves. When you've got someone like Elon Musk, who is just saying is the pains from my cars. I'm actually in this for the better of the human race.

Cassie Gannon:

from a position of being financially very secure

Daniel Franco:

yes he is but isn't ultimately his purpose what we all should be doing in the sense that if we're actually if we have a product like using an address Nike example there's no rule like we're competition we're only putting clothes on people's backs that's a very sort of naive way of looking at it but that's what we're doing but from a the humanity perspective of censoring people and colonizing across the universe and and whatnot and coming up with the technology to be able to do so and for the green for the environment we're creating batteries that Yeah, and emitting pollution and in the battery that he did the Tesla board into the state as well we had that blackout all these sorts of things he's saying he's the he's the the specs for it go and build it Why aren't more businesses doing that? Why aren't more businesses connected to their purpose of envision?

Cassie Gannon:

I think it's interesting because I think what you're talking about social enterprise and so you know, profit for purpose and when I was in Yeah, not for profit so that term isn't great because it says we can lose it always. Yeah profits a dirty word.

Daniel Franco:

Yes.

Cassie Gannon:

When there's a margin there's a mission was this tagline of our CEO and so you know, if you if you continually lose money lose money lose money, you go out of business and you can't fulfill the mission you

Daniel Franco:

will you're only you're bounded by you level of thinking

Cassie Gannon:

Yes. And you're bounded by Oh, I can't pay any staff to deliver the services so now the most needy go without because this money is being wasted in an inefficient administrative Yes, so something great so I think more companies are is a huge social enterprise movement in Adelaide and there's across the world and I think the companies that will come out and be more successful as younger generations come through are the ones who will have a mission and a purpose is bigger than the product they do.

Daniel Franco:

Yeah. Do you feel like that's where we're all moving? Yeah, I'd

Cassie Gannon:

like to think so. Be nice hope so I like to live in that world

Daniel Franco:

Yeah, the way the food thing is Yeah,

Cassie Gannon:

not just profit driven

Daniel Franco:

Yeah.

Cassie Gannon:

I think it can be it's about what you do them with the profits so really reinvest it, to reinvest it back into developing the broader society as a whole rather than praying for it Oh, yeah, exactly.

Daniel Franco:

I don't I'm not I don't want to seem like I'm one of those people that are knocking money making right we're all we're all in the game to make a Bitcoin and live a life that of comfort, I suppose. Yes. Life without boundaries, which would be from a from a financial perspective, which would be exciting for all, but it's about I think, Gabrielle and Michelle, Michelle Holland, you know, we were talking today is that when you know, once you've entered a billion dollars, worth a billion dollars is what 100 100 million 100 100 million or something like that is a ridiculous amount of money and the idea of being able to spend all that just because you just couldn't you couldn't you couldn't, especially if you have 190 million like the rice worth or Jeff Bezos from Amazon 100 90 billion yeah guys 100 $90 billion. You couldn't spend that in your life in your life. You just put money everywhere you couldn't spend it so why wouldn't you do good oh my gosh thinks she could but I think

Cassie Gannon:

you think he will I think someone I don't really pay attention but someone won Powerball winners 50 million. Yeah, yeah. So what could you do?

Daniel Franco:

Well Well I think I'm a very purpose driven person so for me I would I would look to do things that would benefit South Australia very South Australia focused but there are others who just go and buy every single car by themselves a helicopter maybe private jet and not be

Cassie Gannon:

okay to buy a car. Yeah, well yeah, I think about so it's funny because I think about who's around me. Right, like my family safe and secure. Yeah. And then think about how do you then set that up for other people? Yeah,

Daniel Franco:

set it up that we're living a comfortable life and then and then give back to the the non for profits and give it back to the charities and whatnot that are doing some good in the world. I'd like to, I'd like to think that most people would think that way, but they don't. The other thing where I believe would be putting it in startups, because because you can give to charities. Yes, absolutely. And, you know, by all means, investing into charities is a great thing to do. But startups could potentially change the world. Right? So I think that's the other bit. I feel like it would be a job creation, job creation. Yeah. Creating? Well, you think from a, you know, the amount of technologies that that have been, that have risen and the man of your lucky said, job creations in the way of thinking that have changed, and we're moving into some would say, a better world. from a technology standpoint, you know, investing in those startups and would be something of interest thing. We're talking hypothetically,

Cassie Gannon:

I think so.

Daniel Franco:

Get a one day, maybe if we went to pebble gaps, we'll throw some money now. Okay, yeah. Yeah. Inside of the whole system seems ludicrous. You can get six numbers, but then one number you want to know? What? What do you believe we talked before about people learning in different ways. And, you know, there's more than one way to skin a cat, when trying to influence a business about moving towards a new innovation or even trying to influence the business or leaders above you. So managing up? What are ways that we can influence to to lead us towards Continuous Improvement and Innovation?

Cassie Gannon:

And do you mean by personnel? As a person happening? Yes,

Daniel Franco:

as an individual, I'm looking, I've got some some great ideas. But I'm just I keep banging my head against the wall, I'm just not getting anywhere. My my leaders don't want to, they're not listening to me. Say that? I look, I'm not getting fulfilled. So I think about leaving the company or, but I really love the purpose of the company. So the all these these questions get thrown around all the time. How do we influence or influence those around us to start thinking in different ways?

Cassie Gannon:

I think the number one thing is to inspire trust. And so you need to deliver on what you say. So if I think it's very good to try to reflect on yourself and think, am I doing what I need to do in my gig? Because if you're not, it's really hard to influence from a place of not delivering on your ball. Yeah. Does that mean so that's super hard?

Daniel Franco:

It would mean is that mean? We have to, if we want to move up in the world, we have to go if we want to influence others, we have to go over and above what we're getting paid to do?

Cassie Gannon:

Well, I'm always like, there's a saying I did many years ago, a certificate for in personal training. And the lecturer said something like, always do more than you get paid to do and eventually get paid to do it.

Daniel Franco:

That's true. Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah. And

Cassie Gannon:

maybe the money is not the motivator. But for me if you can always be like, just use discretion wherever you dress for the job that you don't. Yeah, correct. Because if you want it Yeah, absolutely. Not everyone does that for me. If you feel like you're hitting brick walls, maybe think about am I approaching it as the way I received information?

Daniel Franco:

We can only look at yourself, yes,

Cassie Gannon:

really, can't you? Well, you can observe others and think well, that person seems to be quite successful in getting their ideas heard.

Daniel Franco:

So pick pick the brain of others. Yes, definitely. Look at those who are potentially leading the way in the company

Cassie Gannon:

is nothing better than watching observation of others who maybe have attributes you would like to do a lot more? Yeah. Well,

Daniel Franco:

if you do keep coming up against it later, it's just like, Daniel, cash. No, I told you no.

Cassie Gannon:

Well, then you have to really consider is that your future? I think it's an interesting problem. It is. Could you move internally? Yeah, I say opportunity to it's quite hard. I don't like for me, you know, then going to the next level is I don't love that. You know? Yeah. Yes, very difficult, puts you in a very difficult position. If you then go Oh, they're not listening to me and I never listen.

Daniel Franco:

But what if you the reason you're doing it is because it's for the community shouldn't matter who you speak to.

Cassie Gannon:

Thank you. But not really. And that's the thing. I think there's, that's why I think in a company, you need a culture where that doesn't happen. But it may. And if you have systems in place where you have people who might be go to people for ideas, and you know, you have the innovation person in place or a coach in place, your champions, they can help support you. And they are an alternative voice. And often, it's good to recruit people from the outside of your department to maybe get them across the line or appear of your leader, you know, talk to them about this is what I'm thinking, and then maybe try to orchestrate some kind of discussion around that. So difficult, too

Daniel Franco:

touchy subject. Oh, you're having a tough conversation with you later?

Cassie Gannon:

Oh, my goodness. Most people avoid that. Yeah, exactly. It's funny, because I ever feel that I can't raise an idea if I really feel strong.

Daniel Franco:

Yes. And I'm the same as me the answer for how I have I have this conversation with family members, friends All the time. And my response is, just walk into their office has a conversation, but it's like, No, I wouldn't dare do that. And the fear of losing a job will always outweigh the level of conversation that they're having, which is an interesting perspective. Yeah.

Cassie Gannon:

And I think then it's hard for me to give insight. It's not something I really struggle with. But I have, over time, I feel like I've built my skill set by watching those who've got more than I thought, Wow, how did they get that across a lot?

Daniel Franco:

Yeah. Well, I think there's there is a broad skill set to it. It's having a confidence in yourself and confidence in actually what you're trying to deliver and belief in what you're trying to deliver.

Cassie Gannon:

I think it's a belief and for me, I'm very bad at advocating for stuff on myself personally. However, I can if I had to go and advocate on your behalf, I'm all there. Yeah. And so

Daniel Franco:

was that. He said, we're getting into coaching. So he knows. Is that because you're not as emotionally connected to the idea?

Cassie Gannon:

Maybe I think it's because it's, for me, if it's about greater good, there's so much

Daniel Franco:

your for your for your ideas would be for greater good, too.

Cassie Gannon:

Oh, yeah. I mean, more personally, for myself, I can I need this personally? Oh, I see. Yeah. No, I can definitely Okay,

Daniel Franco:

ideas from a group perspective. Yeah. Makes sense. So I'm a leader of a business. And I'm saying right, oh, we're going to create a new, innovative approach. Next, step two are going for those people who aren't innovating. How do we how do we deal with those people who, you know that later, we're just talking about now he's not interested in it?

Cassie Gannon:

Well, I think it's about demonstrating value for them, what's in it for them, you've got to find the sweet spot, because maybe it's really frustrating for them that process too, but it's not the thing you're focused on. And I always like to do quick wins and deliver something really rapidly. So that then they are just inspired here. Yeah, yeah. And then you bring people along, to be honest, where this is, if people are identified like that, for me, they're the ones I spend a lot of time with influencing. Because often, they're very passionate about what they do. Yeah. And they want it to be right. And that's why they're putting up barriers, often, they may not have felt heard before. Yeah. And if you can get them across the line, you've got the biggest advocate in the world. So I put effort into you've got early adopters who are going to come on the journey, and you support them and you love them and you cherish them, you've got the kind of the next photos there 100% where, you know, you put some systems in place of templating put peer coaching in place around, you know, your, your early adopters to support them things, but generally they will come along. And it's the other group that you might need to spend more time in. truly understanding and I think it's interesting in a often in a government context are just rules are very different to private industry. So, you know, in a private industry, people make different decisions. in government concepts, it's about we need to work with these people, maybe they are afraid that they won't have a job that's meaningful at the end of this. Are you going to automate my job? Yeah, that's a scary one. Yeah. And so I really help them feel confident that as leaders, you will look after them. And that's by delivering on that commitment. You can't just say to someone else, you'll be fine. You have to actually deliver a lesson to them along the way. upskill them, give them the opportunities, maybe some people might need a move. But can you help them through that process? Yeah.

Daniel Franco:

So how do you when? How do you manage people who say, No, I like the way it is. scan a bit of a scan of a bit of a change,

Cassie Gannon:

I must admit, I like going with his energy. And where, you know, you always have pockets of excellence, connecting that. And I think if people if I'm hearing things, I'm afraid of change, I'm not comfortable with this. I am.

Daniel Franco:

So we are for those people who, like you mentioned, just now was that this year that they're their role is going to become automated and potentially become redundant. And they've got a family. They look after kids or in a private school, whatever might be, they got bills to pay all the above. And they're putting their heels in saying are not changing i like the way it is. I'm not kidding. What are we what are we as a business to,

Cassie Gannon:

I think there's a lot of work you need to do with their leaders around understanding because usually, as an improvement practitioner, your skill set is around improving and working on the business, not executing with excellence. So if you look at the areas you're talking about a generally, in the execution streams were delivering services consistently with efficiency, and effectiveness over time, not working on the business. And so often leaders in that space can not feel confident with leading their team through that. So I feel like there's a lot of work with the leaders before you even start on that journey, to get them up to a place of confidence with leading change, and even being comfortable in themselves with change. Because I must admit, when the IT team wanted to take my laptop and reimage it, I don't want that. Yeah. I feel like I embrace change, but there's levels of people, everyone has a different change

Daniel Franco:

as well. Because Yeah, it means that you're gonna there's a bit of extra hours they have to put back into it. Yeah. But you don't stop. You don't put your heels in. Yeah. So there's a difference between not liking change, and going through with it anyway. And completely saying, No, I'm not doing this.

Cassie Gannon:

Yeah. But I know what you do when people say no, I think there's a performance especially Mary has to be it's no other way. And because the government sector, we have no forced redundancies in our enterprise agreement. And so, you know, but as an employee and an employee, do you want to be in that relationship space? It's probably not ideal. So it has to be a performance discussion.

Daniel Franco:

Yeah, most definitely.

Cassie Gannon:

I don't like that as an answer. But I think at the end of the day, you end up

Daniel Franco:

well, ultimately, the role of any business is to ensure that there is the businesses of going concern. So it's about continuing the ability to improve and add value to the clientele. Yeah. And and if no person or shareholder or anyone should, should be locked? Absolutely. We are. Really, we are a cultural and strategy leadership, and change business consulting. And we we do a lot of work with businesses into that workforce management space. When looking at innovation and try to actually acquire people with the right skills. Is there an opportunity to train and educate and develop the people existing

Cassie Gannon:

100% I think that's really interesting stats out of my, my lecturing work is that you know, for example, with creativity, and I certainly I thought, I wasn't particularly creative because I didn't do visual arts. But then I did some creativity kind of test on my own. But there's more than one type of creativity. I often think of it in one dimension. But there's some statistics that are two years of age 98% of humans will test at genius level for creativity by 31, only 2%. Well, because our systems and structures beaten out of us, you know, education. That's an interesting thing, too, because we put it flipping education on its head is what we like our topic coordinator likes to talk about because they're doing experiential learning, of just lecturing and content delivery. So we're learning by doing in a classroom environment. But that's in a safe way to take those risks. So fundamentally, you can do that with any population.

Daniel Franco:

It's funny, because we're just talking about the education sector. Earlier, Michelle, Gabs and myself, we're talking about, you know, Sir Ken Robinson's TED Talk, he talks about it, you know, you pull someone out from, from, you know, 19, not an early 1900s, and bring him in today's environment. And they'll be very confused and sort of overwhelmed as to what's happening, but you put them in a classroom, and they'll feel an awful, very comfortable, which tells us that the education system isn't hasn't really been innovating. I like to change factories, we all really So tell us about that?

Cassie Gannon:

Well, you know most people want to start is it comes out consistently good quality.

Daniel Franco:

So, we're conforming to

Cassie Gannon:

putting putting boxes as we go along. Because it's setup for the Industrial Work Revolution,

Daniel Franco:

it is we outsmart, go break,

Cassie Gannon:

going into factories, doing manual labor, repetitive tasks, not having to query your job every day, and learn new skills and keep up with the pace of change that we have. So I think some schools are doing better than others. But they're still fundamentally like the fact that school hours 830 to 330 likely works those hours, start online to any kind

Daniel Franco:

of No, it's not work was not aligned to the common environment now, where we're going to be working from home. So it's actually going to be interesting seeing my children go to school, and it's in to a city school, I do work in the city, but I'm nowhere I'm not in the city, like I was every day before. So now it's frustrating for me to come into the Yeah, it's, yeah, it's a half an hour trip each way to to get them to school to an error or lose. So schools are gonna have to start, you know, thinking there are more and more parents like me, yes, the simple decision is taking him to school closer, but what if I don't like education on there? Yes. So education is definitely an area that needs some radical innovation. Yes. And forward thinking?

Cassie Gannon:

Definitely. But it's very fascinating for me, and it goes back to that, executing with excellence versus innovating new business models, you know, schools are generally led by educators. That is their thing. Yeah. But is it their thing to work on a business model on school?

Daniel Franco:

Correct? Well, that, you know, the principles of SEO effectively, yeah. And generally, x teachers Yeah. And, and have

Cassie Gannon:

seen or story for their whole career. So you know, I've worked across five different sectors. And I like to think that, you know, one thing I bring to the table is seeing many different stories, because you learn from those different experiences and being in different sectors and working with different people. But if you've only worked in a school, if you've only worked in effect, for me this opportunity, yeah, play me around.

Daniel Franco:

You see different ideas. Yeah. bringing some brand and marketing Yeah. into the face.

Cassie Gannon:

I remember I said, The library is a book factory, and I was avoided out very badly in the library team. But you know,

Daniel Franco:

what's funny, cuz you see, you see stadiums get named after sponsors. Now, do you think we could get that way with schools, you know, the Optus school or something like that? It's being innovative in it. I think we were coming to the end. We've broached on the on the hour over the hour, Mark. Now. What does the future look like? for you in the world of innovation? What are you with some where do you feel that your careers is going? And I don't want to put you in a position. Yeah, okay. Well, just more from an innovation perspective and teaching of the children. So children teaching young adults, I should say what What's your Do you have any? Do you have any reservations on where we're going is as a race from an innovation perspective?

Cassie Gannon:

Oh, I think we, I think if COVID proved anything is that we can go faster than at least constructs. And I kind of constrain our thinking. So I think COVID has been the best thing. Like it's in

Daniel Franco:

the right. linings. Yeah, absolutely. But I love this technological advancement, COVID spin, but also change of ways of work. Correct. So

Cassie Gannon:

if you think about who would have thought that pretty much you can work from home? Many, many ways, in some you cannot at this stage, but that will be pushed, you know, you've got remote. We've got robots that are being run by doctors remotely doing surgery in some cases, you know. So I think if we can change our thinking about how we work, but you know, what can we do that adds value for that travel commute time that we used to take? Yeah, there's those kind of

Daniel Franco:

wanting that what I'm really excited about is that we can almost hire anyone from all over the world.

Cassie Gannon:

I think about who's competing for roles now. Anyone? Can

Daniel Franco:

anyone can

Cassie Gannon:

Google all seek search work from home only jobs?

Daniel Franco:

Yeah. Is that an option on seek? Is it work? Yes. Now, there you go. Yeah. It's never been the case. No. And so that also means that your business could potentially be anywhere. Yeah. Especially for like consulting.

Cassie Gannon:

I think there's been businesses operating like this on the fringes for years. Yeah.

Daniel Franco:

But now it's open, open.

Cassie Gannon:

people's eyes open as possible, and you don't lose as much as maybe thought, however, I still think is really important to remain connected. And that's where the effort goes. Yeah. No, you don't do the community. How can you keep connected to people?

Daniel Franco:

Do you think if if we were to hire someone in overseas, their role, that they can just work and never actually meeting that person? Face to face is an issue?

Cassie Gannon:

Depends? It depends on the person. On the team? Yeah. Yeah. For me, I don't think so. Personally, but I in COVID, I have the opportunity to join a number of zoom platforms. And I will have, like some conferences on innovation, that was true. Internationally, I've never gone I met someone who's doing a PhD in South America, they've connected with me sense to scare my insights or something, you know, those connections is always existed. But how do you get into those connections? Training networks? Yeah, yeah, I think we you asked about the future of education and the future of innovation. I think it's really about taking control risks, being confident, but also being prepared that the change is happening, and it will be sustained. So for example, now, when I started teaching, we were pretty much 100%. Online. Yep. Now we're doing hybrid. So I've got 30 in a class. I've got 12. Online. How do I keep a group of people plus online connected? Yeah. must be exhausted?

Daniel Franco:

Well, I think the no risk thing was you mentioned that early no risk with no punishment. Sorry, no. So failures with no punishment, I should say. Failures without punishment, is the way it's like you're allowed to make mistakes. It's that growth mindset.

Cassie Gannon:

percent, and you have to, I think, start that from school. So schools that offer enterprise kind of, you know, learning, not just a traditional, you know, if you're doing innovation in the school environment, you're taking kids through the design thinking process, or you're taking them exposing them to all these different elements in a safe environment where they can fail be coached. You know, you become a coach and appear around. Let's try that the teacher at the front of the room, we can all wait. Yeah. active learners engaged.

Daniel Franco:

I love it. Beautiful. All right. Well, we're gonna wrap up now with some rapid fire questions.

Cassie Gannon:

No pressure.

Daniel Franco:

I kind of start off a bit easy with the first one I said we're gonna talk about books and I know you're a big learner. You prefer audible? Yes.

Cassie Gannon:

Audio Book.

Daniel Franco:

Yeah, I'm the same. Yeah, actually, I know. Life. I I read books. I should have listened to the audiobook. First of all, like I didn't buy it, and then I read it. Oh, interesting, but I read the chapters that I liked. Yeah, not the whole book. I listened

Cassie Gannon:

mostly to books. For that kind of professional development, and for relaxation, I read physical copies. Oh, yes.

Daniel Franco:

Yeah, cuz it is nothing better than sitting in a chair. For whatever reason. So that being said, What is your number one recommendation for book for those who are looking into innovation?

Cassie Gannon:

I'm not very good names. So I don't remember names of books, and putting me on suppose bad for that. I love anything by Adam Grant and Seth Godin. moieties for me,

Daniel Franco:

yes. Adam Grant is a superstar and Seth is a genius. Yes, brilliant,

Cassie Gannon:

am I kind of I would just subscribe to Seth Godin blog. Because I think that often people feel intimidated by reading the entire book. Yeah, and so blogs are like paragraphs

Daniel Franco:

that's a that's a can of worms that you've opened there because I believe most people don't like reading because they can never get through a book like I know I can't read exactly because of their thought process that they couldn't finish the book. Yes. That's what I read like that.

Cassie Gannon:

Yes. Read the choice if you make it accessible.

Daniel Franco:

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Read the chapters that you need put the book down if you don't need it. Like it's pretty simple, just

Cassie Gannon:

like an audio book worth listening to. Because it is hard to read his obstacles away.

Daniel Franco:

Oh, that's a brilliant book. Actually, you're right Ryan holidays writing is difficult to read really great to listen to His voice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I found that the same here's another one called ego is hearing Oh, yes. Yes. And I read that and struggled through it, but listened to it and loved it. So yeah, it is. It's interesting. Different. Yeah. Brilliant. We could talk about this forever. What's it advice that you would give to your 10 year old self?

Cassie Gannon:

Oh my girls a 10 year old so that's fascinating. See, to follow my heart and to really add myself in and not do our people for as good as

Daniel Franco:

you go.

Cassie Gannon:

So I did engineering because people thought you're good. I was good at math, science. Physics can any push but you know, so you're good at that. So you should really is this is a revolutionary circle to careers you can choose from at uni. I knew I wanted to be me. So here's what you would and I am good at it but I don't love

Daniel Franco:

on reflection. What would have you chosen?

Cassie Gannon:

I think it would have done psychology.

Daniel Franco:

It's pretty interesting. But you know working why cuz I love

Cassie Gannon:

anything organizational development. That's me innovation and critical things understanding how people think differently.

Daniel Franco:

What's enabling people to think? Yeah, yeah. Yes. Love it. What's one autumn on your bucket list?

Cassie Gannon:

I would like to go to Iceland.

Daniel Franco:

Iceland. Yeah. Heard. It's very green. Yeah. I love one thing. It's always confused me that Austin's green and Greenland's on sir Wow, awesome.

Cassie Gannon:

I love I've read a bunch of the sagas and I just love the storytelling. I love the language is unbelievable. I watched a lot of the Nordic one. So even sometimes you have to read. So either.

Daniel Franco:

Brilliant. Yeah. Iceland is not new. Not on my bucket list.

Cassie Gannon:

I want to see them.

Daniel Franco:

Oh, yes. Oh, that isn't one that is one item I think I would like to do the right eautiful

Cassie Gannon:

many people go there. So that's another

Daniel Franco:

reason why because if you had access to time machine and you could go once to backhoe forward. So return trip, but one return trip. Where would you go?

Cassie Gannon:

I recognized very to where my girls are about four. Okay. Yeah. Because six years ago, yeah. Because you could

Daniel Franco:

travel sure any time and you go alright because

Cassie Gannon:

I feel like you blink and they grow right? So They were at a great they still are, but it's different. Are they becoming now entering into that puberty phase? And they're becoming a little adult? Wow. Because then you're still the apple of their eye. Everything is about us their parents or caregivers and but they can have a really great conversation with the university Academy.

Daniel Franco:

Fascinating was everyone's tearing up here. I have a I have a NINE and a seven year old so a two girls as well. And I know exactly what I mean. exactly what you're talking about. My dad went to pick up my daughter this morning. You walk in here and poker? No, no the shit out of it. And then you're annoying. And I'm getting a lease already. What I used to be the best I get. I still am the bed. But no, no.

Cassie Gannon:

Open your mind. Open your eyes. You are funny. They used to laugh. Yeah. tough to find the jokes. Yeah.

Daniel Franco:

Well, yeah, that's good. We got a question coming up. If you could have one superhero power. What would it be?

Cassie Gannon:

I would like to live forever.

Daniel Franco:

live forever.

Cassie Gannon:

And it said everyone around you would go and come but you'd have the opportunity to, you know, you wouldn't have you could use hindsight. So how would you get old? No, I get to a certain point you want to say right now? Maybe? I don't know.

Daniel Franco:

10 years ago. So you're gonna need a time machine then.

Cassie Gannon:

Yeah, but I would love to just have the opportunity to So scientists at heart. Yeah, love experiments and innovation is experimenting. But it's rapid experimenting. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I would love to do that experiment on myself.

Daniel Franco:

Forever infinity, they may eventually get over, would you get bored? Cuz I there's an element. I'm gonna go fill it philosophical here. But there's an element of me, which believes that that's what that's what makes life exciting is that it's fine. It's fine. So

Cassie Gannon:

when you have a lot of regrets, essentially, yeah,

Daniel Franco:

sure. You're right. Correct. Would that? Isn't that the key? laughs to try to leave with error? Yeah, correct. Now, last one, what's the best dad slash mom joke?

Cassie Gannon:

I have too many.

Daniel Franco:

So you got to come up with a new one tested on us first.

Cassie Gannon:

Alright, let's my daughter, so I can't really say okay, but she created a joke.

Daniel Franco:

She created. I'll be the judge of that. I've heard it before.

Cassie Gannon:

Okay, so what kind of what kind of music do they listen to on the moon?

Daniel Franco:

What kind of music? But I laughed. And

Cassie Gannon:

then I'm like, Did you read it in a book? She's like, No, I just thought about my, okay, good.

Daniel Franco:

Yeah. Take that run with it. That's brilliant. I love I'm gonna tell that to my kids. Just add to the pile of that. You said that's a perfect, thank you very much for today cast. That's been absolutely amazing, I believe. Yeah. Those who are looking to think about how to innovate within their companies would have gathered a lot of information from you there. So thank you very much. Yeah. Where can we find you? LinkedIn is good. LinkedIn, LinkedIn. Yes. And you're happy to be contacted. Excellent. So cast Ganon on LinkedIn. Yes. Brilliant. Thank you very much, guys. That's us for today. Thank you again. Thank you. We'll catch you next time.

Synergy IQ:

Thank you once again for joining us here at creating synergy. It's been great spending this time with you. Please jump on to the Synergy IQ Facebook and LinkedIn page where the discussion continues after the show. join our mailing list so you'll know what's happening next at Synergy iq.com.au. And of course, don't forget to subscribe to this podcast. And if you really enjoyed it, please share it with your friends.