Leesa Chesser is a non-executive director, advisory board chair, skilled senior leader and mentor. She served as the Minister for Disabilities, Mental Health and Substance Abuse leading the NDIS decision making, delivery of service reform and transformation in South Australia. As Chair of the Public Works Committee, Leesa oversaw large public infrastructures construction projects such as the $450M Adelaide Oval redevelopment with consideration of economic evaluation, procurement, project management and ongoing reporting for public value.
Leesa now runs her own Strategic Advice consultancy firm named Blue Sky Consulting, where she specialises in strategic governance solutions. She also coaches, mentors, Chair and builds Advisory Boards where she primarily works with the private sector with commercial enterprises, startups, SME’s, not-for-profit organisations and social enterprises, helping them in the health and human services, defence and space industries.
In this episode, Leesa Chesser and Daniel broached a few topics, including her time in politics, women in business, and all things Directorship & Boards.
Where to find Leesa Chesser
Join the conversation on Synergy IQ LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram (@synergyiq) and please support other leaders by liking, subscribing and sharing this podcast.
Access SynergyIQ Website to get to know more about us.
Say hello to our host Daniel on LinkedIn.
Leesa Chesser is a non-executive director, advisory board chair, skilled senior leader and mentor. She served as the Minister for Disabilities, Mental Health and Substance Abuse leading the NDIS decision making, delivery of service reform and transformation in South Australia. As Chair of the Public Works Committee, Leesa oversaw large public infrastructures construction projects such as the $450M Adelaide Oval redevelopment with consideration of economic evaluation, procurement, project management and ongoing reporting for public value.
Leesa now runs her own Strategic Advice consultancy firm named Blue Sky Consulting, where she specialises in strategic governance solutions. She also coaches, mentors, Chair and builds Advisory Boards where she primarily works with the private sector with commercial enterprises, startups, SME’s, not-for-profit organisations and social enterprises, helping them in the health and human services, defence and space industries.
In this episode, Leesa Chesser and Daniel broached a few topics, including her time in politics, women in business, and all things Directorship & Boards.
Where to find Leesa Chesser
Join the conversation on Synergy IQ LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram (@synergyiq) and please support other leaders by liking, subscribing and sharing this podcast.
Access SynergyIQ Website to get to know more about us.
Say hello to our host Daniel on LinkedIn.
Welcome to creating synergy where we explore what it takes to transform. We are powered by Synergy IQ. Our mission is to help leaders create world class businesses where people are safe, valued, inspired and fulfilled. We can only do this with our amazing community. So thank you for listening.
Daniel Franco:Hi there synergises and welcome back to another episode of The creating synergy podcast. I'm Daniel Franco, your host and today we have a remarkable human being on the show named Leesa Chesser. That's Leesa spelled l e e s a. A little bit about Leesa. She is a person with a many many talents. Being a non executive director, advisory board chair, senior skilled leader and a mentor. She served as the Minister for disabilities mental health and substance abuse that led the India's decision making delivery of service reform and transformation in South Australia. She was previously the chair of the Public Works Committee, where she oversaw large public infrastructure construction projects, such as the $450 million Adelaide Oval redevelopment. Leesa now runs her own strategic advice consultancy named blue sky consulting, where she specializes in strategic governance solutions. She also coaches mentors, chairs, and builds advisory boards, where she primarily works with the private sector in commercial enterprises, startups SMEs, non for profit organizations and social enterprises, helping them in health, Human Services, defense and spice industries. It was a great chat with Leesa today where we broached many topics, including time into politics, women in business, and all things directorship and boards. If you enjoy the episode, which you know, you will, please like and share with your friends and colleagues. And check us out on SynergyIQ.com.au. Cheers. Welcome back to The creating synergy podcast. My name is Daniel Franco, your host and today we have the lovely Leesa Chesser. Welcome.
Leesa:Thank you so much, Daniel.
Daniel Franco:So really honored, I guess to have you here, Michelle, and I think very highly of you. We've had a lot of conversations. Can you tell the listeners a little bit more about yourself, your background and how you came to where you be where you are today.
Leesa:Um, let's see, I trained in a hospital administration in Queensland. I came out of Queensland in the 80s and came to Adelaide originally for a job at the repatriation Hospital in data and data collection, which is cancer registration, the basis of epidemiology and then I've been in Adelaide since 92. So when everyone was leaving due to the state bank, I was arriving and I saw it Adelaide was a beautiful place to live, great quality of life if you've got a great job here. And I've stayed ever since I'm married, divorced, had kids had a fantastic career in Adelaide, and still love it.
Daniel Franco:Perfect. Thank you. So right now you are running your own work?
Leesa:Yes. Yes. So three years ago, I founded blue skies consulting Australia and blue sky consulting is named after my Happy Places. I love to sail and I love to fly. But I also love strategic thinking. And I've come out of state government. I was a state government minister and a member of parliament for eight years. And before that, I spent most of my adult life in the labor movement and around politics before the Health Administration journey took me there. So health and data governance. As the things I care about blue sky does non executive directorships, I sit on a board in Sydney community options Australia that does Hospital in the home type spaces supporting people with complex night lives who needs support. And and I also do advisory board work. I'm a certified advisor board chair.
Daniel Franco:Brilliant. So we're going to touch on a few of those little areas as we go along. Firstly, I'd like to touch on your political background. It's it's one that you How long were you in Parliament for
Leesa:I joined the labor movement in Queensland, just around the time the gaas government was being elected but was just I had a nine to five job then. So I didn't just a volunteer. Then I came in got involved and became a party official and founded progressive business. The corporate events and fundraising for the party, went into parliament for the seat of Taylor to replace Trish white and was there for eight years. So that's parallel we Edinburgh out to Virginia, so and used to have the gmh and as the south, so complex, and it went through a lot of changes, obviously because gmh was downsizing and eventually close. But the heart of it really was the Defense Base. So I was privileged enough and really honored to serve as a parliamentary secretary in defense industries. Veterans Affairs something I'm still very passionate about a lot of defense in space and my grandpa was in the RAF says a lot of value alignment
Daniel Franco:there of that with a sort of the family flying and
Leesa:Yep, absolutely. He helps
Daniel Franco:set Air Force.
Leesa:Yep, yeah, he was the Wing Commander and had an AFC in DC, which is a pretty rare combination from 30 Squadron around spray that I've seen for the common folk like myself. Okay, they've they pretty significant medals and awards for service. He was an instructor and tomorrow but then he went to up to Papua New Guinea and was a Wing Commander in that space and did some really some of the things very good at four, I still haven't been able to track down through the war memorial. And he went on to do civilian aviation. I've got photos of him flying first planes out to Australia from the west coast of America. So when Jetsons civil aviation, he was an examiner. And my mom was an air hostess, because that's what you were in the 60s. Yeah, so flying sort of. Yeah, well, I guess it was fine was still special, then it wasn't every day, although it's pretty special. Again, after last year now,
Daniel Franco:I've been through.
Leesa:But it's something I'm doing my happy spaces. So I guess it reflects that my values to the electorate, we're very connected to Defense and Veterans and also hold a culture. Football of Virginia was new new housing it was period. And so it was an exciting electric. There was lots of variety. I love serving it. And I believe in servant leadership, and then was fortunate enough to be a part of second mental health and substance abuse to jack Snelling, and eventually became a minister and was Minister for disabilities, mental health and substance abuse between 2016 and 2017 for a short period of time, until I left parliament and 2018.
Daniel Franco:So the final part of your political journey is one that it was a tough period for you leaving leaving parliament. reputational damage potentially came into the fold through that period. How did you personally cope through that time?
Leesa:I think every person in their life has a Annus horribilis like the Queen hat. I think that year was truly horrible in a number of ways. And my sister just had a baby had breast cancer. I was in family court and with my ex husband for children in custody, I ended up with pneumonia and pleurisy that was just in my private life, let alone what was going on with it. And so there was a long standing situation that arose that it started long before I got into parliament. But when it came to my service time, some horrible things came up. And I remember reading the report the first time that I read it, and I was in a family space. And it was an Easter time. And I was with my family. And my father was in the room and he said, Why are you so upset. And I was quite very emotional about it because I was so outraged. Then it was about fixing the problem. And then it's a case of surviving, that obviously triggered an AI kick. And there's a report. And people had lots of scathing things to say to me about my performance in that space. But at the end of the day, I know what I did. And I know I did it for the right reasons. And my truth can probably never be aired in the public space because of the legislation in South Australia. And that's all I can say about it. But I walked away from politics and do the right thing for my team. And the right time, I've got a lot of learnings from that that are useful to corporate sector now. And it helps me reach into deeper spaces when I coach and mentor female founders because you have to be vulnerable to rebuild yourself. And you have to be strong and resilient. And I guess resilience is a thread that I've had all through my life. And I had to reach deep into that time for that. To protect myself and my family and walking away from my career at that time was the right thing to do on a number of reasons.
Daniel Franco:Well done for getting through it, it would have been an extremely tough time. You touched on resilience, which is especially now going through a pandemic route, buzzword. Businesses really concentrating on the resilience of their people, coping working from home being apart being being separated from from their team members. also dealing with just a whole bunch of adversity in the world that we're going through right now. Can you touch on the storage is of resilience that you that you, you work through how you know, that that gut feeling of that sickening feeling. And we've all had that where things haven't gone our way. And, you know, this common sense of approval of what people think about us is important. How did you manage and Wade your way through that internally,
Leesa:I guess. I wasn't aware of it, until I got to Parliament that I was reasonably resilient. I'm an optimist by nature of always, reasonably happy, Sunny personality. But being in Parliament, and resilience is a muscle you have to build. It's just, you know, not something that is given to you naturally, circumstance muscle. Yeah, you have to practice it. But it was actually, yeah. And subconsciously, I was prepared in that sense. I think that time, though, when you're sitting in a really negative media environment for a long period of time, it can actually weaken you. And I think my health took the hit for that. And I think at the time, I took things very personally, because I'm always been a person, even through my childhood that was responsible. I've never had my capacity or capability questions. So that was a deeply personal experience. And I've learned from that. And I believe in learning, I believe in moving forwards and a growth mindset. So the things that I've learned from those experiences are that the people's, you surround you with your top 10 values, my values are slightly different now to what they were, then. I probably have 10 values, I think I've rearranged the top five now and loyalty is somewhat further down the chain that it used to be. But do I still hold? strong political views? Yeah, absolutely. I've been surrounded with public affairs and the media since I was a kid, and always was nerdy about show until wanted to talk about those sorts of topics. So it wasn't surprising that I ended up in politics. Now I do impact and change and making the world a better place for purpose and impact. I do it in my business life in a different way. So I'm still on that path. And it's still a service path. I absolutely think how I work with people I support is about making their businesses thrive and survive and grow. And most of the businesses I'm doing business with, actually have wellbeing or impact on the world's gnarly problems at their heart. And I know, that's what you guys do, too, and which is why we've
Daniel Franco:clicked connected. Yeah, absolutely. And I'd really like to touch on the values piece that you brought up. You mentioned that, you know, three or four years ago, you had a different set of or a different order of values to where, where they are now, which I believe is a really important point. There are some fundamental values that people can hold, and they can keep them top and front and center for their whole life. There are others that will drop in and drop out depending on their experience, their wisdom, their understanding of certain situations. What's your importance on what value do you place in new values? And how close to your heart Do you draw on them on a day to day basis?
Leesa:Yeah, they're next. You know, my work Carol at home. They're there. And I've reorganized. They're quiet, um, integrity is really important. And to be able to say, you know, you did the right things for the right reasons, with the information you had at hand. I know I can sit comfortably in that space. And I wouldn't have got through that tough year, if I hadn't had that at the heart of myself. But courage, I'm a great believer in being courageous. I've learned so what is courageous courageous means that you you push yourself sometimes into the areas that are uncomfortable, because sometimes growth comes with that uncanny.
Daniel Franco:So that feeling of I'm going into something. This is a little bit uncomfortable. But holding yourself to account. Yeah. And walking through those doors. Is that sort of
Leesa:Yeah, I think I'm curious by nature, highly curious. I've posted something about curiosity on my LinkedIn is weak. And it there's fearlessness. And courage is usually part of courage is fearlessness. That doesn't mean that you're not feeling it, but you acknowledge it and you walk through it. And I think curiosity about life and how you approach it is one of my veins and I bring that to the boardroom how I question and ask questions, questions, I try and do them in a constructive way. behaving with integrity and honesty is really important. To me, I think they're probably some of my top fours. But self compassion is something that is is. I've learned more about in the last couple
Daniel Franco:of years, I think it's something we're all learning, can you give us a little bit of your understanding of self compassion now?
Leesa:Yeah, so people talk about resilience. But I think if you're talking the Ying and Yang, I think self compassion is the other side, the twin on the coin, because she can't be endlessly resilient, because your empathy jar gets exhausted, and you need to care for you and need to do self care. And as a good leader, you have to actually practice that. So whether that's like I've got a Mental Health First Aid certificate, and it helps shape some of the conversations I have with people, sometimes self compassion, we talk about gratitude. Now we talk about these things, and mindfulness, much more. All of those skills are tons of things that we pull on different times in our lives, where every day, it can be a simple thing. Like going and getting your lunch away from your keyboard. But it's a much more profound thing when you're talking in it coaching sensitive, how you create boundaries in your workplace and a new life and creating a safe space. And increasingly, in boardrooms, we're talking about psychologically safe places where bad behaviors are not tolerated. And I can honestly say when you look at the Federal Parliament this week, and the allegations of the rape case, and that woman being heard, and and the word that the people are even discussing it in the media, and the ways that human resources have been dealt with and how she's been dealt with. I don't know if politics is very much a psychologically safe place. In fact, a lot of people don't want to have these conversations in that space. And it's because people don't want to be vulnerable. They
Daniel Franco:it's an ego.
Leesa:It's a very driven world. Yep. And it's considered a weakness, and they don't support people very well in that space.
Daniel Franco:So it's a common question. So you've put Okay,
Leesa:so that will be in spaces, something that is really important to me now. And I was important when I was the minister. In fact, three years ago, I did some space about the well being policy that is being run out across the state. Now, I'm really pleased to see the new government that came in, also see the importance of well being as a society in a state, I'm really glad that we're doing work in that space, I wish Australia would do more work in well being not just mental health, because I think it's a fundamental set of schools, that your kids and my kids, I want them to have that growing up, where it's not a band aid that we fix up afterwards, I want that to be as a part of financial literacy about how to be a good employee well being if they're not whole and working on themselves, and knowing the skills to make themselves better. You really high performance teams and a high performing society that's harmonious and kind to each other, and compassionate, and thrives are based out of some of these good human behaviors.
Daniel Franco:Yeah, it's funny, when you think about, well, being in mental toughness, it's almost like if you put it in analogy of building a house, it's the foundation of the house you need, you actually need to have a solid foundation to be able to hold the rest of the home up. And yeah, it's one that's worked on from a young age consistently, you know, the growth mindset, all these things schools and are introducing which is exciting, I think, because my daughter is coming home and going. That what's the you know, this is a growth mindset versus a fixed mindset. And so now we're having conversations around the house. I'm mindset by Carol Dweck is one of my favorite books of all time. So I've been pushing it from word go, but they're just those conversations with my with my daughters now is if they're sort of upset about something, or they've made a mistake, and they get frustrated, really angry with themselves, they cry, whatever it might be. My comment to them is what type of mindset Do you think you're working with right now? Is it a fixed mindset or a growth mindset? So that you're right, it's a fixed mindset. So they then change their attitude and they get on? So? Yeah, I think it's a start from from when you're young. And we need to introduce this.
Leesa:I think there's a lot of stigma and labeling and judgment in society. And you think about that in social media, and trolling and all are you biased in that acid sometimes when you do a lot of media content. And people go for simplistic things and don't necessarily want to go for the deeper Person Centered story. So for kids, I think teaching the media literacy skills as longside social media and digital skills are really important that they've got the resilience and self compassion, that they make mistakes and learn from them. I've had to learn from mistakes in that time of my life and Not taking it personally would probably be one of them, but also getting really brand and reputation management. It was a unique, unique time in my life. And I'm pleased, I will never have to do that again.
Daniel Franco:I want to just touch quickly on your self compassion. And when we're talking about, there's two questions that came out of what, what you were talking about earlier. Number one self compassion for a servant based leader, are you saying your seven base leader working off? And there are many of us out there the seven base leaders we aim to put our people before before ourselves? When where do you draw the boundary? What do you actually realize that you know what? You say you've got a team of 20 or 30 people working underneath you, and you're always putting them before yourself? Because that's what you believe a servant? Basically should do. You know, you mentioned boundaries earlier, how do you set boundaries? How do you go about actually understanding when it's time to go, you know what, today I need to concentrate on myself and, and recalibrate, and refresh or zonk out or whatever it might be,
Leesa:it's easy for me now being in my own business, my job is to support others, you know, as an advisory board chair or not, I come in and help them with specific tasks. So my teams aren't big anymore. But what I do is build people up, it will be the safe space that they can come to when they need to refocus, and maybe not just your strategic content for building their business or solving problem in their business, or executing a long term strategic plan, but also talking through a challenge that they might have with a colleagues. So my job now is empowering people to be humble, successful, strong, humane, and whole. servant leaders, I think adaptive leadership is we hear a lot of people talking about that in MBAs circles. I still find a lot of people talk about servant leadership, and the people I work with often, they've heard one lot of MBAs talk. But if you drill down and look at their true values, when you do an exercise like that with them, they are very much servant leadership. So my job, the way I get to be a servant leader now is vicariously through supporting other teams.
Daniel Franco:So if you were to give advice to those who are in that situation, yeah. about setting boundaries, is there any advice that you would give them
Leesa:a mental circle of people that you can safely safely drawn? for wisdom, it doesn't have to be our mentor. I think there's a lot of people who race around collecting mentors, and I've had people approached me like that, too. But they don't actually know. It's sort of like it's something all I know, I need a mentor, but they don't actually know what they want from the mentor relationship. Think coaching and mentoring are similar but not the same. You might have someone who's in your mentor circle that helps you with a particular challenge, or trying to either master or improve
Daniel Franco:correct.
Leesa:Or you might be looking for someone who you can just be psychologically safe with and to care with, about whether it's balancing domestics and childcare run, or a safe space to vent with and reframe your conversation, like you're talking about with your children. But you also might have professional mentors that are with you for a long period of time across your whole career, that, you know, their deep wisdom and they're seeing you grow, and they're committed to your long term growth journey. So some mentorships, short, sharp and situational, some psychological safety spaces, and others are full life progressions. I'm sure you've got people in those sort of
Daniel Franco:people collect the laces. So yeah, there's so
Leesa:that mentally I think it's better to have a circle of mental mentals rather than just one.
Daniel Franco:I agree. Well, you if I have a lot of people that I draw on yourself, we would definitely be in that space. I. I look at it in a way of what do I believe they're most skilled at? And if I'm in that situation, what questions Can I ask that right? So you mentors is as good as the questions that you ask, I believe. So. And I treat books kind of the same, right? I buy books, and I have them. I've got hundreds of books on my bookshelf at home, haven't read them all. But if there's a situation in my life that calls on some knowledge, and there's a book that's got a little bit of wisdom in there, I'll pick up that book, skip to that chapter. Read that bit, and I've got what I needed. Then I'll draw on people's advice as well. So, yeah, I think you're 100%. Right. It's about picking the information you need, as opposed to hoping every one person's got all the answers.
Leesa:And I think also mentorships, you need to, because everyone's times critical, is going in with that attitude of, this is what I'd like to be discussing with you today. So being prepared doing your homework before you end up at the coffee table. Wait, yeah, what what are we like, do the niceties? How are you, Daniel? What's going on with family? But then cut to the chase of the pace that what's the brain gym you want to do together that day? Like, what do you want to unpack? What what support do you need? What strategies? Are you searching defining the jigsaw puzzle to make this work? And can we find that together? Or have you considered it from a different lens? flip that puzzle up and relook at it? And it might just be reframing it. Yeah. Or connecting you to another person that gives you that missing piece of the jigsaw puzzle.
Daniel Franco:Spot on. Another point you made in a previous we were talking about politics, invulnerability, ego vulnerability, the two? Well, ego is definitely at play vulnerabilities not having played in the political field for some time. Why do you believe that? Why can we have a later leading the state army Stephen Marshall seems to be a nice guy. But there's a lot of political speak there. Why can't we have what our politicians in general be more vulnerable? Why is it that they're always conscious about what they're saying? And they're always answering things in a diplomatic almost as if it's pre written
Leesa:perception and how everything you say is under a microcosm. It's a 24 hour media cycle. And sometimes
Daniel Franco:you just want the person up there to be human as I go, right. Yeah. So I think sort of
Leesa:people have personas, they have persona dramatis, they've got a character they're playing when they're at work. And sometimes you see the real person shine through sometimes. It's not to say they're false. But there's a work Daniel and there is a home Daniel. And, and the media circle doesn't allow people to get that sort of nuanced communication. They're there to deliver some facts. They're getting their get out their opinion leaders and agenda setters. So they go in and do that, I guess. Sometimes in the chamber, you will see those moments, but then those moments of vulnerability are very rarely on the news. I think the abortion bill was debated till very early in this week in the parliament, you would have seen that on the floor as people spoke this way. Come now, I'm sure of that, although I don't listen to that word anymore. That's my past. But I've seen people be that that genuine, vulnerable person, I think there's also a lot of stigma about being vulnerable. Yeah. And talking about things I need a bit of Renee Brown, they need a bit of a courageous courageousness is part of that vulnerability that she talks about is it's knowing the right spaces to do it. Yeah. And the media doesn't necessarily go for that sort of story,
Daniel Franco:which is unfortunate. I'd love to see it.
Leesa:I guess. You know, the story is I love that like Australian story and ABA where people, warts and all.
Daniel Franco:Yeah, absolutely. I think you are. Moving on to another topic. Now you play a really big role in women in business.
Leesa:Yeah, I'm, I'm helping build an ecosystem of female founders. I think one of the things I do in my pro bono life because I still do a lot of not for profit or unpaid work, is I help more away with the chucks Facebook group, and admin there. So that's a community of online women news source group. Now, I know we didn't get caught up with Facebook yesterday. Um, you have to answer three questions to get in and you've got to bypass the community standards for women, men and women and it's okay, yeah, it's about looking at allies. What's changed for Chuck's Chuck's as in chicken jokes, it's about really ending the gender investment gap. It's about looking at patriarchy and how system change can come to allow a more equitable and inclusive world it's about ending the gender investment gap for female founders or small business owners sharing wisdom. So it's a wealth of wisdom for women. And we have all sorts of debates, but it's got to have a gender lens. So that's one way I'm supporting that as a feminist. I'm also sitting on the hen house code, which is a cooperative, which is single goal is about any the gender investment gap for women who are female founders and SMEs who've got ideas and want to do that. So,
Daniel Franco:so talking about the investment gap, right, where are you working? Is that similar to the pay wage gap where you feel that
Leesa:Yeah, wage parity? Yeah, absolutely.
Daniel Franco:won't negotiate for new wages that,
Leesa:you know, I don't think women won't negotiate. They I think I might threaten,
Daniel Franco:I guess, like a male would,
Leesa:I think women, a different style of negotiation. And so sometimes it's finding their voice to be as forthright as a man just naturally walks in there and
Daniel Franco:50 grand pay rise, or I'm walking out tomorrow, someone else will.
Leesa:That's generally not the best way to do it. Anyway.
Daniel Franco:It's a common,
Leesa:yeah, people do that. But
Daniel Franco:it's leverage, right? Yeah, it
Leesa:is leverage. But there's ways of getting your voice heard at the table. That doesn't require something it but it's also empowering women to understand that. Sometimes they don't even know the number of stories I've seen on chalk sharing that women didn't even know that for 15 years, they've been paid 20 30% less than their male colleague at the same time, to the same length of service. And it's not that they're an underperformer or anything like that is just a privilege that people don't even think twice about it. So yeah, I think it should be measured in businesses that if you've got people doing the same roles, the same thing, and people might say, oh, they're more experience, well, at a graduate level of them moving into the business at the same time, there is no excuse for that. Yeah. So over a 10 or 15 year business, and if they bring in the same deal flows through they should be getting the same incentives, as anyone else
Daniel Franco:will experience sometimes might have old school thinking or is a new person coming in how you
Leesa:define value
Daniel Franco:exactly has new innovative approaches has been working in a very innovative business before and can bring some of those ideas in. So
Leesa:it's about a change. And it is a systems change we're talking about, we haven't measured a lot of these things. Well, in the past internally in businesses. I know one of the advisory boards that I sit on, they have a female founder, they actually measure how many women are in their leadership program, what the pay equity differences, and that's a that's a monthly accountable that they report on.
Daniel Franco:Who's that? Can you say that is?
Leesa:No, I said, confidentiality? Can I tell you, when I read that report, it really made my heart smile. Yeah. Because that is that that repeat that reflects contemporary business?
Daniel Franco:Yeah, it would be great to get their name out there. That's fine. It's not? Yeah, no, I can't do that. I tried. So how do we educate the world in two, in a way to close this gap? But what can we do? Is that in schools, does it start with conversations at home? all the all the above? Right, but
Leesa:Well, I think it's not a it's not a tickle thick. List. It's culture and practice. Yeah. It's about awareness. Women are saying what they need a lot more in business and professional life and balance in that space. And they're carrying an uneven load. But at the same time, there's active ways we can support allies who help bend the gender investment gap, or the pay gap. We it's not just about gender, though, it's also about diversity and inclusion. And as a society, we're starting to recognize that that makes for better business decisions you've got, you know, HBr and have a space rich review. Giving us you know, academic journals about this now is thought leadership. So ally ship, it's a simple thing as maybe if you're at next time, and you're in a boardroom table, and a man interrupts a woman. It's might be the gentle, calm voice of a male ally next to them saying, excuse me, I really want to hear what X was saying. Or X was saying this, can she finish that point? And we'll get to you. It could be the simple fact of when you're chairing a meeting, or in a business meeting, making space for everyone, including the solid person at the table, to speak evenly and ensuring all voices are heard. So that inclusion thread, because often people it's not that they're not thinking something incredibly useful and valuable is just genuinely they might be more introverted, and men tend to fill up the space or I've been in meetings where Very high level meetings where I physically have had people ignore me with my hand and head up to speak. Or they'll the person next to you will say the same point and
Daniel Franco:I'm getting knowledge for it,
Leesa:they'll get acknowledged for it. Yeah, that's, that's and I would hope that that's genderless. But I don't think that was the case. No.
Daniel Franco:Do you obviously being on a few boards and haven't been on many over your years? Do you look for gender diversity when you go into a board role? gender and Sorry, sorry, diversity in general? Sorry, I,
Leesa:the people who I tend to work with tend to?
Daniel Franco:Well, here's a simple question, what's the genetic makeup of most of the boards that you sit on right now? And is it a
Leesa:startup world? It they tend to think differently? They're people, they're possible people? Yeah. They want their outcome focused. Their solution focused. The teams that I'm involved in Gemini, there's always a female in the team. And I find that really exciting. All their female leaders who founded a business might be two might be one might be someone who's inherited a business due to different circumstances. But they're looking at doing things in a different way. And the existing programs don't fit them. So I guess I'm very fortunate that the people who are reaching out to me are atypical, but they're the people that I enjoy working with. I do I do look at it, I have applied for some of those more traditional spaces and continue to, and most of the boards that I'm involved in, they're very mindful of having a diversity of views of not just accounting lawyers and stuff like that. But gender, race, age, background, yeah. All of those things that make for better conversations, because you don't want too much of one thing you need to spread it across. There's wisdom in all of these perspectives. It's how you melded into value for the company, and value for society.
Daniel Franco:Well, the good thing is you get to work with a lot of people that you actually genuinely like your HP, type of client, which is great, I think for who are forward thinking and innovative.
Leesa:Yeah, absolutely. That I think that's one thing that is connected to all of them. They've got a growth appetite. They're innovative. Absolutely. The possible people. They might, that's my tribe, now, the solution makers, the changemakers,
Daniel Franco:feel free to call me in I
Leesa:know, I know why we became friends sitting next to each other at the ICD some
Daniel Franco:Well, that's it. So that was going to be my next point we did make last year the ICD summit, which is for those who might not notice the Australian Institute of company directors summit, which, unfortunately, we're not going to be in Sydney this year to go over again, would have been great if we could in a couple of weeks time. But can you provide insight, there might be some people who are listening right now, who may not actually know the role of a board? What does? So what what does what is the role of a boarder?
Leesa:Well, when you start a company, you become a director, like you've got legal obligations, and you would know that is one of the directors asking
Daniel Franco:from a point of
Leesa:Yeah, yeah. So as your business gets bigger, you might need some more formalized governance structures that evolve, if it's, you know, succeeds, and it's on steroids. And you've got lots and lots of teams and people, big payroll responsibilities. Generally, you end up with a board of directors that help you grow the business, and transact on some things that are strategic intentions to make the business make the strategic plan. But also a board hires and fires the CEO. If it's not necessarily an owner, there's independent directors, employees, the board, the the the organization will usually have some rules about how it recruits directors. The one in Sydney that I sit on, is membership based, it's a company limited. They go out to market and looking for a skills matrix of people who can help them achieve their strategic intent. So for my situation, I had clinical governance and government skills. I also understood brand and reputational damage in a sector that's got two royal commissions going on at the moment. So they recruit people for specific skill sets, which assist them in the strategic decision making and their growth, appetites and their strategic plans. They're also responsible for hiring, hiring and firing the CEO and making sure that from that higher level that the ship is facing the right direction and engaged with all risks unaware of all the risks, and undertaking all its legal obligations, but also achieving the growth that needs to be done for the business.
Daniel Franco:So what's the difference between a typical board and advisory board?
Leesa:advisory boards don't have the same legal obligations, you have to make sure that you stay in strategic intent space, you know, you're not legally liable. So if you saw the banking Royal Commission, they were directors, the I lost their careers or crown this week, where they've come out of it where they did not undertake some of their obligations to the fullest extent in investigating the overseas high roller. They didn't ask enough hard questions. They weren't curious enough about some of the things that they were doing in a, you know, the money laundering thing, and they've been found not to be suitable to hold a gaming license. So, again, that is about understanding those very serious responsibilities of asking hard questions. As a company director, and advisory board, your role is totally different. You're not got the Lego responsibility. You still have to have professional indemnity insurance to work in that space. But it's more advisory. So you give the advice to the directors, the directors go and execute the recommendations themselves, but it's up to I can recommend to Daniel what to do. But if Daniel and Michelle don't undertake it, yeah, it still sits with Daniel, Daniel and Michelle. Tim is like a mentoring role.
Daniel Franco:is a payroll advisory Oh,
Leesa:oh, yeah, it's paid. It's not advisory is bandied around a lot. Now. It's not your lawyer in your account. And there's lots of business banded as advisory and advisory board is different from that advisory board is actually structured it's fit for purpose is how does a charter, it has a goal, ideally, you measured at the beginning, and you measure it the end every year to see that it's matched. It's a top three strategic objectives, you you actually do a skills matrix, just like a board does, to make sure that the people sitting at the table with the founders, or the business owners are adding value to the business. And it's achieving its goal. So you might find some pain points along the way of three to 5 million, or the half a million to 1.5, the 10, the 20 to 30, where the business is scaling and growing, and then you either invest in the business and and then lift your head up and go, I'm working in the rushes every day, but I'm not working on it. These people come and work alongside of you maybe once a month or once every two months, or quarterly, and give you that space to do that sort of strategic intent that you go back and do your day to day execution. Because often a lot of people say, so busy working in it, I'm not actually thinking about they know there's these challenges coming, but they either don't know how to problem solve them, how to who to connect with, or how to get to a to b, so it's a wisdom space for them to do those space. So for safe thinking space,
Daniel Franco:so for small businesses thinking about starting an advisory board, what's the steps they would normally take to do that? So one is scaling and growing, and then going okay, right now we actually want to pull in some
Leesa:Yeah, I think people confuse mental circles with advisory boards as well. That's a kitchen cabinet. That's what I call it, you fat, you stand them, people who stands of Daniel's world and want to help your business grow, but an advisory board is actually fit for purpose, has a charter as I said, and has three strategic things you're gonna do each year or you're a great number. So the founders go and pick who they want though, is that I go out and build advisory boards. So I'll do some exercises with them. narrow down the skill sets they need to help them achieve their business objectives, whether it's an exit, whether it's succession, whether it's a growth appetite, whether it's scale. You know, though it depends on where you are in that quad about what we wrap around the business owner, and it might be too soon it really it's a business maturation piece. So you've got to be a bit down the track to be able to do it but you if you're going to scale quickly having an advisory board is really might be a stepping stone you have before you grow into a formal governance board like a company directorship and there are also advisory boards that are project based that are four A specific challenge and time in a business to deal a deal with a challenge that they're going through. And it might be there for 18 months, and then it's done its value, it's done it's project. And then you don't keep these advisory board positions don't tend not to be tenured in like you're with us for three or three years or six year terms like company directorships. It's when you've done the right amount of value to the business. And you can see them flourishing. But also, you know, that I've done as much as I can here. Now it's my job to find the next person that's going to help them go on the next stage.
Daniel Franco:Yep. So when you are thinking about directorship, and all the risks that come with it, and you know, the legalities and you're looking at if there's a slight oversight, or someone within the business makes a decision that could potentially put your career and brand in jeopardy. purely because you may have not hardly been, you know, understood everything that was going on within the business. Why would anyone get involved as a director? What is the is there?
Leesa:We have, we have directors and officers insurance, and there's there's insurances, you can take that organizations and individuals can do that. But a lot of people aspire to be a company director, but don't really understand the serious obligations that it is, I understand that pretty seriously, having come out of cabinet. It's something I've always wanted to do. And my I don't find decision making hard. And I'm fairly responsible by nature.
Daniel Franco:Because there is people that you see on the LinkedIn saying, I'm on the board. And then I don't really want to paint a brush by title, but they're sort of admin officer or whatever. And they're saying they're on this board. And I'm just thinking, Well,
Leesa:I think there's, I think there's a difference between a board of management. Okay, that's doing some day to day housekeeping in a small community organization, and being mindful of their responsibilities, because they're still got legal responsibilities. And I've done my share of those sort of boards of management as well. But there are other boards, the higher more complex the organization goes, the more you've got to, you've got to dive into the rushes when you need to sort of problem out but you really need to be staying in that bigger strategic space and managing risk, and the reputation of the organization. And its growth. That's where the best board culture pieces are. So don't confuse acting like a board of management. Eastern Natan algama great believer in a Australian history of company directors, I've benefited from their chairs mentoring program, I was one of 45 women in Australia did it last year. But lots of the startups down at the lot. There's some fixie scholarships that are out at the moment. And I'm encouraging them all to go down and talk to Clemson and the team at the assay day and learn what a company director is there's an SME course, there's a, there's a foundation course, which is two days is the company director, five day course, which I've done, and I go and do regular top ups is great set of webinars. There's also the governance institute that does another program that teaches you all about boards of different levels and different calibers and how to find the right one for you. But don't go in and just be flattered that someone's asked you to be on the board, because you might not understand potentially this spring in the tail, because I know something always goes wrong. And sometimes you don't get a choice about ways, sir, I think you've got to do your due diligence. If you're a really good director, you you get to go in and ask some hard questions before you sign on the dotted line and become legally responsible. Sometimes that doesn't, that didn't, I didn't get that sort of opportunity. As a minister, you get what you get. You don't get upset. You just it's a privilege to serve. And you manage the environment you're in when you're there. Yeah. But with a board if you're taking a seat at a board table, serious ethical integrity and financial risk at play, and you need to do your due diligence and also be educated about your responsibilities.
Daniel Franco:I think it's really good point. I think there are a lot of people in this world and I know some some people who are looking for board positions because it looks good on their LinkedIn or on their resume and it can help them grow in their career, but they don't actually realize some of the ramifications that can come if You know, the legal responsibilities that they face? So yes, I did the five day aicd course I learned more in those five days. And I probably learned five years before that. So yeah, it's very, very beneficial.
Leesa:It's a great, it's a great investment. And I look at his continuing education points. Yeah, even the monthly magazine, scribe.
Daniel Franco:Yeah, it is. And we're not getting is not saying, Yeah, I must admit I this is not sponsored. But I do, I do think and there's no one really, I was like, I'm in Australia. So that's why we're doing good jobs to get the best people in. So going back to the work that you do with entrepreneurs, and startup founders, when you walk into a business, and even if you're setting up an advisory board, what are some of the first things that you look at when you walk into a business to help them? Is that do you look at every lack of financials, you look at the emotional intelligence of the of the latest will the above what, what are some of the low hanging fruit where you see holding back some of these startups?
Leesa:Well, any, anyone in the estimating that space? I start with? Why? Why do you want one? Is it something that you think is just sexy for investors? Or what are you actually going to do with it? That's my Why, why, why now? Like, where are you at in your journey? that's painful? And how does that contribute to why you want one? The next thing is, are these people advisable? Do they listen? are they likely to follow through and execute the wisdom and suggestions and potentially, it's not just about channels to market and sales and who you'll connect me too. It's about how you're going to mature the business and make it succeed. There the three that I'd be looking for, why, why now and making an emotional assessment of are they advisable?
Daniel Franco:Is there a unicorn type, startup founder or business owner where because you know, you talk about these people being purpose LED. So they come up with a really great idea, they have an excellent vision, they want to change the world, in the product or service that they create. But yet, they don't really know how to run a business to do that. is smart enough to build the team around them that
Leesa:helps them to scout?
Daniel Franco:Well, none of us are short of ideas, but it's about actually getting down and dirty and running the business.
Leesa:Well, yeah, it's a lot of hard work and working in a startup and a lot of self sacrifice. And some of them everyone seems to think startups, overnight success, some of them, most of them aren't. Are you able to put your ego aside and actually adapt, you have to be highly adaptable, I think you have to be pretty dogged, you have to have a lot of self belief, but in a way that was enough to build a team around you to make the business succeed. I think that's why I see a lot of venture capital funds, wrap layers of skills around these teams and help them grow them quickly. And they see this gap gaps, they see the potential in the product, or the service, or whatever the offering is, and I'll come in and fill all of those gaps and, you know, super accelerate the business. The average startup founder doesn't get that advantage they have to run, well, they have to grow it and figure out these things. So that's where like a stone and chalk down at lot. 14 is a great environment because it's supportive that any of the startup helps the ICC, think, think, clap. They're there, where you're surrounded by people who think similarly and are looking to problem solve. And there's wisdom in the team that supports the community in that space and connect you to mentors who've maybe been there done that, or people that can problem solve legal things. So rather than going and sorting a whole lot of this information out, you're in an ecosystem way that that sort of generosity is able to be found more quickly than if you're sitting at home at your kitchen table.
Daniel Franco:Yeah. hoping for the best. I'm interested in your current events at the moment with the news and Facebook. What your take is on now. No.
Leesa:Oh, yesterday. Yeah. I was awake earliest today, preparing for a new advisory board in Sydney. So it's all up during my prep.
Daniel Franco:So from a political aspect and from a giant tech company,
Leesa:sitting there watching my feed disappear. Literally I posted something I think from the Atlantic or something from because I've subscribed to a lot of overseas media stuff and I done something about rash limburger dyeing this shop job. And America was a big Trump supporter. And he was a homophobe and a racist and a whole lot of things. And he passed on. And yeah, I think he was one of these people who loved using Word feminazis. So I was putting a saying, Well, look, he's died. And literally, it disappeared. It melted off my Facebook feed. And I was going and then it started flashing up in my feed, have, you know, and that was about three hours before the rest of Australia woke up. And then it was just like one of those days you're thinking for this is interesting. Yeah. And look different opinions in my feed with my friends about, you know, content should be paid for. And the Murdoch the power of the Murdoch press and how they've got their deals, they've got their pound of flesh with Google and other places. I not sure if the Facebook public moderation team executed that decision. really well. I mean, if they were wanting to shock Australia awake by doing it, I probably wouldn't have done what they did. And obviously taking the fire and the health and all of that stuff. That's a reputational damage they've done themselves. Yeah, I think they're probably you know, when you share on Facebook, you get the warnings about COVID. information being fat. Yeah. Say what being smart with Australia, I think they would have done some saying, hey, this content may potentially go astray because of your government, like they did with voting voting in the US, you know, registered a vote, if they'd done a little campaign like that, if they've been smart enough to do that sort of stuff, they would have brought some of their audience with them. But instead, they pulled the plug. I don't think it was the best public relations thing they've dealt with, you know, if they survive Cambridge analytic or as well, yeah. You know, and, yeah, I just think that how much how many times do you learn from this?
Daniel Franco:Well, I think anyone? I don't know, I'm not really for. I don't I don't know where I really see it. I don't know if I support the government when they're trying to do and because the murder and support Murdoch and all that. What I don't really support Facebook, doing either I don't think I support any business, it can have so much control on what we read and what we don't read that to me scary. From the effects coming from the agendas of people at the top, but it falls in an interesting space to me. How long do you think it will last for?
Leesa:I think it's pretty hard detente we've got going on. But the first thing that happened yesterday, and yesterday morning, was people trying to say Has anyone got to work around? Yeah, everyone was okay. Maybe I'll use my Twitter feed and create a news feed there. And for me, my first thing that went through my head is this is an opportunity to build another app.
Daniel Franco:Yeah. What was what's Facebook's equivalent right now, are these shares going through the roof?
Leesa:Yeah, I think, look, they'll have to be some compromises eventually reached. It'll certainly max my friend. Sharing news is something that's common place. And if you have a bigger global appetite, there's lots of information out there if you're curious, and what like I said, Yeah, I don't, but I don't want to sit for hours on Google or Bing, or whatever else is the biggest search engine in the world, I actually want to have it as a new as a news thread. And I'll pick and choose what I want. But I don't want an echo chamber at the same time. But I want to get the Scottish news and the great news and the South American news. That was a great way of doing it. So I think Facebook's kicked up own goal. Yeah, in a bad way.
Daniel Franco:Yeah. Not a good thing. Last question, before we go into our quickfire questions,
Leesa:we didn't know he had to, like hard quit
Daniel Franco:it is we try to spring him on because it's about to get inner workings of your brain. Just Lastly, what do you believe the future of work looks like? Where Where are we, where we sit now, in a pandemic, let's say future in the next two to five years. What are you? What do you believe will be post pandemic?
Leesa:I still think there'll be people who will be coming into the city and transacting business do I think the high rises will ever be as busy as they used to be? No, I think the nature of work, we've jumped five to 10 years. As long as you've got a digital platform that allows you to communicate with your team team, you can work remotely, I do that already. That's not going to be reflective for everyone in society. So it's, it is a privilege to be able to do that. You've got to be able to perform and show value to your employer or whoever you're partnering with that you're coming stumping up with a goods every day. And digital actually will help measure that better. I think So I think CB days are going to be very different. And I think suburbia is going to be different. There'll be much more of a flex back to community, I think we're still in a space in a post pandemic world where even when we've all had our vac shots and stuff, but I still reckon we've got 18 months to two and a half years before things might go back to a newer version of what it used to be like, I don't think we'll ever go back to a fully to what we had before. No. So it's been a big, it's not just a big mind step and a big culture step, it'll be a big change in the number of high rises, and you're already seeing big corpse was shrinking their floors they had in high rises, and people already starting to work from home, two days a week or so now, it might be two days in the city three days from home, I think you'll see that accelerated and stay there. I think you won't see as much transport needed planes and domestic transport, you might come together for like my world board meetings three times in a row, not six times. That's not such a bad thing for the environment. It's not such a bad thing for life balance and thinking as long as you're achieving the same cultural bonding and things like that. So I think we're in this, everyone's customizing now, and seeing what works for their business. It's not so much a one size fits all solution. Yeah, yeah.
Daniel Franco:Do you think it's giving rise to the gig economy working from home, right? In the sense that people will be everyone will just end up running their own business and getting themselves out, subcontracting themselves out?
Leesa:No, I don't think I still think they'll be still large organizations and large employees that work from home. Now, you can wait for massive insurance company, but you're going to the office two days a week, and you might work from your home office, which has a sound like this and do zooms that way, you know, you look exactly the same as you would normally. But I think there is people get contracted in and out, you can see that you've seen that over a long period of time to cut casualization there is an industrial relation and economic empowerment piece around that. I'm glad to say that Uber delivery and Workplace Health and Safety and the deaths that being discussed, there are some severely constraining and detrimental outcomes to gig economy that we as a society still have to wrestle with. So but i do i think CBD is going to change me. Absolutely.
Daniel Franco:Yeah. I think the writing's on the wall. It's pretty clear there, isn't it? Very good. Well, thank you very much. We'll jump into Oh, rapid, rapid fire. Now that was just the one thing I was interested in getting your thoughts obviously, being on boards, you're always thinking about the future of work and what it looks like.
Leesa:Sydney, Sydney, everyone's working from home. We've done workplace surveys about that, and what's good about it, what's not so good, and yeah, we're we're mindfully thinking about that in, in my Sydney board,
Daniel Franco:good time to concentrate on the culture of business. Now, I think. Just a
Leesa:great opportunity.
Daniel Franco:Absolutely. So, quickfire questions we'll run through sometimes these can go on, we can go down a rabbit hole here. But we're big readers and big learners here at creating synergy and Synergy IQ. What's your number one book recommendation to leaders or anyone who's looking to grow their career or or business? Oh,
Leesa:there's a book about impact by Ronald Callen that I think is great. I've been reading over the summer.
Daniel Franco:It's so impacted by it. So
Leesa:I think it's Ronald Cohen and co author Q, their LinkedIn ruling, we'll put in the show notes.
Daniel Franco:Can you explain what what so
Leesa:he and Mark Cagney did a series of like Mark had needed some BBC race lectures, again, a great set of podcasts to listen to about the importance of capitalism, but also how it adapts and changes in society, and the role of climate and how we can create create creative solutions that work for businesses but also work for society. So social investment, lending, yeah. So there's some other books I've been reading and listening to over the summer.
Daniel Franco:Excellent. So you go home. This is another question. Yeah. So you go home tonight. You look at a 10 year old photo of yourself. What advice would you give to yourself?
Leesa:Less on busy, more on you. Listen, busy
Daniel Franco:more than you. That's pretty self explanatory. I like that. That's very, very good. One autumn on your bucket list.
Leesa:Get my pilot license.
Daniel Franco:Oh really? Yeah. Yeah, you need to I think you need to,
Leesa:I get to monkey around. I've got someone who's very generous and lets me monkey around and I get to a point with no. legally allowed
Daniel Franco:to fly. So you're not illegally we don't revenues.
Leesa:I get to sit in the front with someone. Hey, he, he missed me. Oh, well
Daniel Franco:done. Excellent. So you want to get your losses? Yeah. Yeah, following the immigrant father and grandfather's grandfather's
Leesa:jump out of a plane. I want to do that.
Daniel Franco:No, that's shocking.
Leesa:There's a bit of a thrill seeker episode of Westpac house for fundraising. Angry cake. It was it was the top fundraiser. I couldn't even stand on this table without being
Daniel Franco:scared
Leesa:that I was scared that day, but I did it.
Daniel Franco:Brilliant. Now, I'm not doing it. There's something about me being I'm heavy guy, right. So I just think everything will break.
Leesa:On a little bit. It was a kilo of right to meter. So I think it's 110 or 130 meters that I was carrying. Once I got off the edge. Yeah, wow, me leading that. And then, about six months later, I realized why my shoulder was so dodgy. I'd actually overstrained it, but I just kept going for six months. So that's where I'm that stuff about less busy and more. You know, it's real. It's a learned.
Daniel Franco:Yeah, but more you could end you. I mean, the way you're going if you did, you're 100%. If you had access to a time machine, yeah. What you know, only one return trip available. So no DeLorean. Mm hmm. Where would you go?
Leesa:I would really love to be in Paris during the 1920s
Daniel Franco:was that
Leesa:arts and culture and Impressionism and, and that sort of 1880s to 1920s period. I did art at school. And I love a member of the art gallery. And I love a whole lot. I think there's Europe, then was a pretty amazing time, that sort of lot happened in Europe between the 1880s. And the idea. Now a lot of it, not all of it fantastic. But it's pretty dynamic time. Yeah,
Daniel Franco:I never think about going back and watching Michelangelo paint.
Leesa:You know, I just think to be there. A lot of intellectuals kicking around, you know, or will was visiting. The hedge always is a bit of a melting. So
Daniel Franco:you've actually thought about this. It's just a question. Yeah, I really love it. If you could have one.
Leesa:And that wasn't a decade, you know, I sneaked it out to 60 years.
Daniel Franco:Yeah, no, that's right. You gave me a rough period that you wanted to go to that I'm happy with that. I'll take that as an asset. If you had one superhero power, what would it be?
Leesa:Ah, I'm a great fan of Wonder Woman. So I love her and visibility. And it's so that's a tool. But her lasso of truth is another one I like. So I would like to help be invisible.
Daniel Franco:But for what purpose? Wouldn't? Like what? I've always wanted to understand what
Leesa:you can hear things. You can see things you can manipulate things to better outcome. Your integrity.
Daniel Franco:It's true.
Leesa:Very good. Cha Cha from 1977 with a real indicator, so yeah, and she was a feminist here.
Daniel Franco:Yeah, she no Wonder Woman's brilliant. So yeah, yeah. Although the last maybe it was pretty crap. I haven't seen it to me that's which is a strange, so I've seen every other. Alright, so what's your best dad slash mom joke?
Leesa:Oh, I don't. I wouldn't say my sense of humor is my strong suit.
Daniel Franco:Surely there's something stupid floating out there.
Leesa:Yeah. Okay. Jurassic Park. Sam Neill with the kid and the tree. Yeah. And you know, do you think dinky Saurus Do you think you saw? Yeah, yeah. dinosaurs. It is horrible.
Daniel Franco:The blind the blind dinosaur? Yeah, I like it.
Leesa:I don't even deliver it properly. I don't do jokes. I'm a consumer if he made it look good for us. Well,
Daniel Franco:thank you very much for joining us today on the podcast. How do we get in contact with you? How
Leesa:do we where do we find you and how do we find look Find me on LinkedIn says this way. Lisa Chiesa Lisa with a double e obviously strange named after Mona Lisa song from Nat King Cole. Oh, there you go. And yeah, reach out that way and always pretty much on LinkedIn and around that space. I'd like best Brilliant, thank
Daniel Franco:you very much for your time today. Thank you, Daniel for having me. Thanks, guys. We'll catch you next time.
Synergy IQ:Thank you once again for joining us here at creating synergy. It's been great spending this time with you. Please jump on to the Synergy IQ Facebook and LinkedIn page where the discussion continues after the show. join our mailing list so you'll know what's happening next at Synergy IQ comm.au. And of course, don't forget to subscribe to this podcast. And if you really enjoyed it, please share it with your friends.