Creating Synergy Podcast

#22 - Paul Flynn, CEO of Hospital Research Foundation, on the Value of Innovative Leadership

November 27, 2020 SynergyIQ
Creating Synergy Podcast
#22 - Paul Flynn, CEO of Hospital Research Foundation, on the Value of Innovative Leadership
Show Notes Transcript

Paul is an experienced, innovative and entrepreneurial Board Director and Executive who has earned a stellar reputation for achievement during a distinguished career in both the Finance and Not for Profit sector. Paul has been acknowledged for his contribution to the Banking and Investment Industry by being awarded a Senior Fellowship of the Financial Services Institute of Australasia. Paul has also been recognised for his contribution to the not for profit industry by being awarded the  Ernst & Young Social Entrepreneur of the Year in South Australia/Northern Territory and has also been awarded the Equity Trustees Australian Not for Profit CEO Award for Innovation. 

Paul is a member of the Australian Institute of Company Directors and currently holds positions as a Non-Executive Director and Deputy Chair of FIA Ltd, Non-Executive Director AusHealth Pty Ltd, Non-Executive Director Biomebank Pty Ltd, Director of Australian Centre of Excellence for Post-Traumatic Stress, Trustee of the Pulteney Foundation Inc. and Executive Director of Australian Prostate Cancer Research Society Ltd. 

Paul is Chief Executive Officer of The Hospital Research Foundation Group and of its Australian affiliates: The Repat Foundation – The Road Home Inc; Australian Centre of Excellence for Post-traumatic Stress; Australian Breast Cancer Research; Kidney, Transplant and Diabetes Research Australia; The Centre for Creative Health; Cure for Stroke Australia; Parkinson’s SA/NT; Laurel Palliative Care Foundation and Australian Heart Research. 

In today's podcast, we learn a lot about Paul's journey, the challenges he faced when he first became the CEO of the hospital Research Foundation, his innovative approach to leading a business and how he believes that mistakes are fundamental and an investment into training and development. We also discuss how he became a father for the first time at the age of 50 and how he manages his family life amongst his hectic schedule. 

Where to find Paul Flynn 

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Synergy IQ:

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Daniel Franco:

Hi there synergises and welcome back to another episode of The creating synergy Podcast. I am Daniel Franco, your host and today we have ventured our way down to the beautiful new hospital Research Foundation office at Woodville to speak to a man who radiates positivity, and he's just so giving of his time Mr. Paul Flynn bowl is the chief executive officer of the hospital Research Foundation, which is a non for profit business whose sole aim is to fight for the health of every individual. They are on a mission to fight for cures better treatment, improved care, prevention of diseases and suffering, fighting to advance research faster than ever against enemies such as cancer, heart disease, stroke and dementia, plus many many more. You may also know the hospital Research Foundation for their amazing home lottery win. They're known for their beautiful million dollar homes and large prize giveaway. Paul is an experienced innovative and entrepreneurial board director and an executive who has earned a stellar reputation not only in business, but just for being a great human being. Paul has more accolades and then you can focus the Getty has been awarded the fellowship of financial services Institute of Australasia Ernst young, social entrepreneur of the year for South Australia and NT, and the equity trustees Australian nonprofit CEO award for innovation just to name a few. In today's podcast, we learn a lot about Paul's journey, the challenges he faced when he first became the CEO of the hospital Research Foundation and his innovative approach to leading in business. We also discuss how it became a father for the first time at the age of 50. And how he manages his family life amongst these hectic schedule, and how his belief that mistakes are fundamental and an investment into training and development. I absolutely know that you enjoy listening to this podcast as much as I did chatting to Paul, I hope you enjoy. Brian, welcome back to the creating synergy podcast. My name is Daniel Franco and today we have the CEO of the hospital Research Foundation, Paul Flynn. Welcome to the show, Paul.

Paul:

Thank you, Daniel,

Daniel Franco:

I appreciate the invitation. You're doing some amazing work out in the world at the moment. A lot of people know the hospital Research Foundation through the the home lottery program that you guys run. But before we get into that, can you give us a little bit of a background about yourself how you got to where you are today and yeah, obviously want to learn a little bit about Paul Flynn, the man the family man, the work man all the above?

Paul:

Well, I'm a local product of of Adelaide, Daniel, I went to high school not far from hero and a friend in high school and had had a number of choices. As I was leaving school, I was accepted into the Defence Force Academy, but also had been advised that I had a job waiting for me at the Commonwealth Bank back in the late 70s that used to sit an exam and and they told you six months out, okay, you've got a job coming up, it wasn't quite the same as it was these days. And in 1979, I just decided that I wanted to pursue a working career to start with and went worked for Commonwealth Bank. I don't, I don't I've never regretted that, to be honest, I know a lot of people in, in defense Who are you know, current serving or veterans? And, you know, they have to they've given a lot of their life for their for their service. I've never regretted not doing it, if you like so I went to the Commonwealth Bank when I was 18 and it was a government federal government owned entity, amazing education and training programs to be honest, you know, they support the Commonwealth training bank act, they just pumped so much training and development into the into their staff, they paid for my education outside of work education, I was there for 15 years, I quickly moved into a commodities dealing and trading role. So as a ended up there as the head of trade finance or sort of trade finance manager and senior dealer in in foreign exchange, which took me around Australia a bit. So trading currencies was a was a unique area in the Commonwealth Bank. And I was I was at the bank, as I said for about 15 years, I think from memory and I while I was They're I studied, studied in an air in the area specific to two commodities trading and, and then started presenting myself as a tutor and a lecturer and, and through those through those lecturing opportunities I was at the Graduate School of Management, Adelaide uni lecturing there. And one of my one of my students came up to me and said, You know, I'm from the cooperative building society, and we're about to become a bank. And, you know, I think we'd like to offer you a job and, and you know, it's always very flattering. So I caught up with them literally the next day. So lecturing in finance, lecturing, and finance, I used to lecture in commodity trading, bonds, bonds, trading, financial statement analysis, things like that just just did it on the side, actually, for a bit of fun, I quite enjoy it. And I had this lunch at lunch at a restaurant with these people from the co op, it was I can remember vividly was November 1993. And it was one of those, you know, push slide a piece of paper across the table at you. And, you know, that's what we'd like to offer you. And I flicked it over. And I thought about it for, you know, three, four seconds and said yes.

Daniel Franco:

And it's quite flattering.

Paul:

I spent an interesting added nine years at Adelaide bank. So we converted to a bank and got, again, got lots of opportunities there ended up as one of the senior executive team. I went in as a people manager, if you like, which was interesting in itself, having just been a commodities trader, and then all of a sudden, you're managing people. And the thing I learnt actually there very early was, when you're dealing in large, vast sums of money, it's very impersonal. But when you're dealing with people's money, it's very personal. And that was probably the biggest thing I noticed almost from day one. And I ended up running a sort of department there that looked after marketing and HR and product development, financial planning. There might have been one other department in there from memory. But I wasn't fulfilled. I was on the board of a not for profit, and I quite enjoyed that. And one of Adelaide oldest charities It was called Townsend house, and they offered me the position of the CEO. And I thought was great. This can you know, meet my altruistic, you know, each to scratch that particular part of my my function. And I ended up the CEO of that organization changed his name to the kendu can do for kids. And then we facilitated a few mergers. I did lots of property development, retirement village development, to fund the children's programs, set up a Australia's first community owned Internet Service Provider while we were there, sold internet services into the retirement villages. So it was was quite an interesting time. And then when I left there in in 2009, I probably decided I was I had a marriage had a divorce, and I was kind of ready to maybe retire. Well, that was my thinking at the time. Yeah. And then

Daniel Franco:

suddenly, it was it

Paul:

was me 2009. Yeah, you know, myself and a mate, I just met a new, a new partner who's gone on to be my life partner. And I sort of said, Look, I need to go traveling for a bit. And so I went off with a, an old mate of mine, and we were, were doing a extended camping trip through the outback. And we got to about six weeks in with the plans of doing, you know, two or three months. Yeah. And we're sitting around the campfire one night, and also don't get a bit bored with this. And he said, Me, too. Me too, actually. And so we packed up and headed back to Adelaide, the next day. And on my way, we were literally driving through I think Tennant Creek or one of those and my phone rang, and it was an old friend of mine who was on the board of the men Quinn was with hospital Research Foundation saying, look, you know, we've been out without a CEO for three or four months. And it'd be really good if you could come in and have a chat to us. And which I said I would that I can't I was talking to a couple of recruitment agents and there was another job. There was another job that was made available to me in the fall back in the for profit space, which I which I after a couple of NGO interviews had had said yes to and and then Melinda O'Leary actually who's the wife of Jim Wally, the state chief entrepreneur, he's been a friend of mine for 30 plus years, but she probably wouldn't want me to say that, maybe maybe longer. And she said, Well, you know, we want to offer you this role. And, you know, I kind of had kind of had my fill of not for profit, but then then she said, Look, you know, here's, here's what's facing the organization and I just love the challenge. And so I had to turn around to the other organizations say I'm sorry, I've accepted the role, but I'm not going there. And, and took on the role as the CEO of the Queen Elizabeth Hospital Research Foundation, which was an interesting an interesting stage in its development quite challenging. And I've been here now for just over 10 or 11 years. And through all that period, like I got married when I was very young, and my, my first wife and I are still good friends, but we should never have been husband and wife. And so that was a very short marriage, we're very good friends do. And then I was 18 years with my second wife, and she, you know, we just grew apart she, she didn't want to be married anymore. And to be honest, for good reasons, for her benefit, she had a few health issues. I got a stepdaughter from that relationship, I'm still very close to she's almost 30. And then my partner and I, Sam, who's, who's been amazing, actually, you know, we've, we've been together for almost 12 years. And, you know, I've got a stepson who lives with us full time, he's, he's like my son. And we had a child, my first biological child, who's now nine. So it's been one of life's gifts really to, to experience Parenthood, both through the eyes of a step parent, which is challenging, but fulfilling, but then, you know, to add 50, to be able to have, have your own child with with someone who just get you to it's an amazing, amazing opportunity, which I've absolutely relished.

Daniel Franco:

Congratulations, that will go into the, I'm interested in the workplace and the family life aspects, we'll go into dive into that a bit later on in the chat. It's a great journey. So you started in 2009, or 2010,

Paul:

here in 2009. So like late 2009. And it was a smallish organization had 11 staff, it was, it was a challenging time for, for the organization, it had been through some dramatic upheaval, you know, board, in a board, challenges at board level, you know, challenges with the previous executive director, all all, you know, two sides to every story, but there was challenges and, and they just hadn't had a leader for a while. Internally, they've been, you know, some some accusations of harassment between staff members. And it was like, my view is, if you go into an organization, you're either good at keeping the wheel turning, or, or you want to, you want to go into an organizing organization that's got challenges to meet. And that's, that's me. And I'm a great believer that if you can get everyone to accept that there's challenges, so everyone's got their backs to the wall, then everyone's heading in a straight, the right direction are all facing the right direction that makes it but people find it strange when I say this, but if if you go into an organization that's got a lot of problems. As long as everyone accepts his problems, then you've got an easy Yeah, you know, it's going down, he was the only one who's out there, and you go into an organization that's got seemingly no problems. And oh my god, that would be hard work. So often maintenance job isn't my job. And no organization has no problems. And so, sometimes you have to create, you have to put together the facts so that they, they are perceived to be an existential threat, and get everyone on on board. So the Queen Elizabeth Hospital Research Foundation was, was having us having impact it was having impact. It was doing okay, financially, but but not setting the world on fire. And, and, really, that what I needed for the first few months was someone to put their arms around and say, everything's gonna be okay. Yeah, and here's a plan.

Daniel Franco:

So you've come in and after 12 months, change the name and premises? I kind of heard the axe around.

Paul:

Yeah, my view was, yeah. Which is always my views, you know, what do you want to achieve? What do you want to achieve? Do you want to do or do you just want to be an also ran? Or do you want to make impact, it doesn't matter what doesn't matter what career you choose, I'm going to watch, you're a landscaper, or you're a chief exec doesn't matter, you want to make impact, you just don't want to turn up and do your job and, and get paid for it. And that was really my mother, my mother, you know, drove that thought into all of all of my siblings and I, you know, make make a difference, you know, be be the difference if you like, and, and so, we, I'd said to the board at the time, I said, Look, you know, I think that there's there's the potential for us to make a much bigger impact in the community. But we're gonna have to take some risks to do that. And my board had a lot of foresight, I had a series of very good chairperson, so Lee boys was the chair when I started and then Melinda Leary became chair and now Steve rudder is chair and three, very good chairpersons and a very supportive coordinate. We don't always agree on things. We're very supportive board. And I'm a servant of the board. So that I think that's really important that, you know, in particularly in the nonprofit space, you can't be an executive director, you will too much influence as it is these people are volunteer part time, directors, our board is a skills based board, people are selected based on what our needs are and what their skills are. But and we have a we have a degree of delegation that allows me to get on and do you know, do the things on a day to day basis. But equally, I have to understand that I don't have a backdoor that says wisdom. And so that's what you have a board. Absolutely. And I often say to I speak to a lot of emerging executives and I the common piece of advice I've given them when when and you will always get to this point, when you get to a point where you think to yourself, geez, I wish I didn't have to report to a board, that's the time to get out. Because you actually need that board there too, to keep nudging, nudging the horse, you know, with a?

Daniel Franco:

So would you ask yourself that question? Would you say that to yourself, if the board are cooperative, or uncooperative?

Paul:

Oh, you know, I have this discussion with my board. on a regular basis, if I'm not happy with your decisions, when I propose something to you, I have a pretty significant delegation. But that's come with trust, okay. But if I'm not happy, when I go to the board and ask for ask for something, if I'm not happy, I've choices I can leave. You know, don't don't the cemetery, my father used to say to me, that cemetery is full of people that can't be replaced. Okay. And that is true, don't think that the world revolves around you, there are plenty other people who could come in and make a big impact. And so your job is to make sure that with the tools you're given with the colleagues that you have in your organization that you can make as big an impact in the community as you possibly can. And often, to achieve your impact, you actually have to take risks. Our industry is our industry is starting to emerge with with leaders who, who are have a bit of business focus rather than, than our, you know, passionately aligned to the cause. We, you know, you can, you can be you can be aligned to the cause, but still also have a business focus as well. And I think our industry, the not for profit industry, it's a huge industry in Australia is now starting to emerge with with at board level and at sea level, some pretty good, pretty good business. But yeah, and the and the community should be really proud of that, for our industry

Daniel Franco:

is very, very important industries. In other words, all nonprofits are doing your purpose lead later, from what I'm gathering through this conversation and knowing a little bit a bit better in the background, to come in, and I guess, make those changes, straightaway, in your first 12 months, change the name to the hospital Research Foundation, move premises, and start the evolution into what we know, the hospital Research Foundation today. It takes a bit of courage as a leader to come in, in the first 12 months to do that. Were you supported?

Paul:

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that premise. I actually think it it takes laziness and laziness not to do it or not to delegate. And so, you know, the if that's what you're hired to do, you're hired to create an, you know, to have an impact. And we've got a, if you think about a, if you think about our, the way we approach business, if you if you conceptualize a Venn diagram, okay, two circles. Yep. And there is 460,000 not for profits in Australia. So there's, you know, for every man, woman and child, there's one for every kind of eight to 10 people, which is a lot. The vast majority, I'd say 466,500 of those started with a really good cause. And so the cause might be the local footy club, the cause might be, you know, a family whose child died and they want to set up a charitable endeavor in honor of that child, they all started really good cause cause causes are great, but they don't have longevity. And so cause needs to become brand. So if you think about one circle in the Venn diagram, as cause going to expanding to brand Yep. And then on the other side of the circle, what the community what the community wants to know is they want to they want to know you have impact and they want to know that you can be trusted. And, you know, I I would I say to you that you probably trust our organization, but in fact, it's really important for me to say to you, you can trust me, okay, because that frames the conversation. And so trust in our space is driven by really good governance, not not, so not just not just really good governance, but the perception of really good governance. And also complete, complete and unfettered transparency. So if you can grow the trust circle, and you can grow the brand circle so that they cross over that space that they cross over in our, in our industry is called our social licence. Yep. So that crossover space is our social license. So I'm always trying to increase the social licence space. And that allows for growth. So to go back to your original question, are you taking a risk? I do you have to be courageous to do that. You have to be courageous. You have to be stupid and stupidly crazy not to do it. Yeah. You know, otherwise, what's the point? Yeah. And I sit back now, and I look at our, you know, what's going on, both in federal and not in South Australia, but but some other states, federal and state governments and other states. And I kind of think to myself, you know, When, when, when the government can allow, you know, the, the, the statutory authority to pay out, you know, Cartier watches or, or the premier of New South Wales can think it's okay to shred, you know, Grant documentation for $250 million grants or, or hide from the community that, you know, she had an intimate relationship with, you know, one of the, one of the most corrupt politicians going around, then, you know, we have our moral and ethical compass in this country is really said, I'm not perfect. And I've, you know, I've made plenty of mistakes. But you know, what, and some of those mistakes are mistakes, you would never want to repeat again, but, you know, learn from your mistakes, be open about them, and move on. And people can be very forgiving. Yes. And so, we, as an organization, back in those days, I think it was, it would have been very lazy for us to sit back and go, you know, we'll just keep doing what we're doing. But you know, making a small impact in a small area where we had the capacity to, to grow. We had some good people in our team, I headhunted a couple of couple of people who I'd worked with before. And I said, you know, here's, here's, here's the starting point, the starting point for us, was establishing a long term strategic plan. So I think it's really important in the nonprofit space to first go back to your constitution. So what are your constitution say you're obliged to do, and then create a strategic plan with some short, medium and long term objectives? And I like to think about them as innovation objectives. And so, you know, the first area of innovation, I think, should be optimization, what can I do? What can I do in the next five minutes? That I would normally do but do it more efficiently? Is there any better ways to do things and, you know, when someone comes into a new organization, you said, First 12 months, that's the time you're gonna make change. Yeah, and your first 12 months. And so we talk about optimization in this organization, every every of every one of my colleagues, has a has a position has a key performance indicator around optimization, can you do something different, that makes it more efficient? For what we currently do? And then then the next level? And this is, I guess, going back to your question, the next one is strategic innovation. So do we have a skill set that can be used for other things to make a bigger impact? So do we have an existing skill set that can be used for other things? And I think that's an important question for any leader to ask of their team, you know, is do you have more capacity? Do you have more brain power? Do you have more infrastructure that can be used for other things, we've got public amenities at the moment that are worth billions of dollars that are only used between 9am and 5pm. You know, I just think that's ridiculous. You know, we've got the Royal Adelaide Hospital, I have to say surgery of often and Rola hospital starts at three o'clock in the morning, Dan Fisher, 10 o'clock at night, but we have a hospital that's there 24 hours a day. The only thing that holds us back is our industrial situation, relation situation. And then the last area, which I think is really important in in the strategic plan is what we call blue sky, or B hags. And blue skies, is there something that we could do if we put a little bit of work into it now just to test the water. And we've, we've been very fortunate in this organization that all of our blue sky, all of our blue sky objectives have eventually come off. And, and so that was that's what I'm paid to do. You know, I'm not paid. I'm paid because of my 40 years of experience. Yeah, not my you know, what I'm, you know, my day to day role. So, I'm paid to create an impact in our community and we have the trust of the community to, to where it would be. It would be dishonest and distressful for us not to use our resources for community good. long answer to a short note.

Daniel Franco:

You got some great points, the B hag, I guess, which is the big hairy audacious goal. The D was the home lottery. Your introduction of the home lottery was that you'll be gone.

Paul:

No. So we, my predecessor had, had brought in some ideas from overseas and had started it. And I looked at that, and again, we're just not take we're not, we're not taking enough risk. So I'd say to acknowledge my predecessor, and yeah, and the previous board, they brought the home lottery in South Australia, I suppose what we've done is, is honed the home of the balance sheet risk element of it. So, you know, we, we've, we've slowly built a strong balance sheet, and we use that balance sheet to leverage risk appropriately, to make sure we can return a better impact to the community. So I guess my addition to that is to say, You know why, you know, why are we just, you know, why are we small? You know, what, why can't we be bigger the market seems to like it. And what's that what that's done is it's created a brand category, if you like, so we have a brand category around major lotteries. And we're the, the largest in the first. And I don't begrudge any other organization looking at, you know, looking at our market and saying, are we, you know, we want a piece of that what I soon work out is it's not quite that easy. There's a lot of, there's a lot of sophistication that goes into it. And so yeah, I've I've really leveraged the original idea and made it into something that's synonymous in South Australia, I'm simply not we, we, we brand survey a lot, and it's very well known. And then what we've done is we've used the surpluses from those lotteries to create a really big impact in the health sector. And in the not for profit space, the health sector is the sector that the community responds to, and this is not me talking. This is data. The health sector is the area that community wants the most impact from Yeah. And so in that sense, it's a bit easier, like, I'm not trying to market to, to someone that isn't interested, everyone's interested in health, either for themselves or, or, you know, for their family members, but everyone's interested in it. So that makes it a little bit easier. But yeah, we've we've, we've created a brand category.

Daniel Franco:

Yeah. And an amazing brand that that will go on and ask you some marketing stuff and brand, brand category stuff a bit later on. What I'm interested in if you if you do the basic, basic math, and it's you know, 75,000, or tickets that you sell at 100 bucks a ticket uring, some good coin, the once you've paid back, all your overheads and everything else that goes into the properties. How does the How does the remainder get split across? Because you got various organizations and charities that you should put into research? How do you decide? Well,

Paul:

it's a little, it's a little bigger than that, I guess it's a couple 100,000 tickets three times a year? Yeah. So the volume is very big now and tight. It's quite risky. So you know, each each time and we also have a quite a large philanthropic support. But I guess in one sense, for those people who philanthropy was they are ambiguous about philanthropy, what we've given them is a product that seems like philanthropy, but also has a potential to get something out of it. So I would call it I still call it philanthropy, but people can get something back, tax deductibility has become less important to people because simply because we've got a casualization of the workforce, and we've got a progressive tax system that has the people on the lowest income, sometimes paying quite appropriately, sometimes paying little or no tax. And so therefore, tax deductibility is irrelevant to them. And so the lottery fills that space, they still get their philanthropic, yeah, each scratched. Then, what we do is that we have a, you know, it's, it's like casting into the abyss, sometimes we have to kind of work out how much we think we'll have next year. Because the accounting standards don't really let you, you know, hold over hold over the proceeds of lotteries. And so we have to, we have to cast forward and take a big punt, each lottery that we sell it as soon as we sell the first ticket, we've got to cover, you know, between seven and $8 million in costs are quite a big risk our board, our board trusts us, and the trust their governance process to do that. And then the surpluses are applied to either direct grants or grants for research or patient care, or to cover historical grants that have future revenue, their future expenditures. So, you know, many of our grants are, you know, five years. And if I give a five year grant in 2020, the recipient of the grant wants to know that we're gonna have enough money in 2025 to pay that yes. And so we have a we have what's called a research reserve. And we put any surpluses after Direct Payments each year into that research reserve to cover unfunded well sorry to make sure that our liabilities Funded going forward. And we have a target to make sure that we can, we can run, you know, three years worth of grant programs and the end the progressive units five years after those three years. So we have a title and make sure we could fund research out for eight years, even if we didn't make $1 today, so it's, it's a, it's a very people look at our balance sheet, and it's not a lazy balance sheet at all. It works, we worked really hard at making sure that we can meet our commitments and going forward and we're very proud of the way we manage how we manage our balance sheet. So then, in the in the organization, we have a head of research strategy and programs. She's a named Dr. Camille maalaea very interesting in her own right, she's a MD public health physician has a has a master's degree in Public Health in health economics, makes her a much sought after. commodity in South Australia. I had I had the chief public health officer Nicola Spurrier in here recently, and, and I've known Nicola for about 30 years, I suppose we can still hurt. And Camille is French, French citizen, French Israeli citizen. So she's, she did her medical studies in France did her public health and health economics degrees at London School of Economics, and then worked in medical startups in Israel. So she's got great experience. And when she came here, I was introduced to her and we heart We literally hired her on the spot, she was exactly, you know, sometimes it's Kismet, really the right person at the right time. And she's been able to put a very robust program in place to ensure that all of our grants last year, we got about 29 $29 million in grants. So all of our grants have a have a research theme that we're targeting. The grant application is assessed thoroughly, that the information that we receive in the grant application is validated, and that there's a translational nature to the outcome. So how do they translate translate into public health benefits. And so we're just expanding that area at the moment, because it's the measurement of impact is, is a very objective area, you can do it objectively, there's a bit of subjectiveness to it. But in the end result, you can work out whether or not you know, your surgical procedures are improving, or your cancer treatment is improving, or your or your transplant medicine is improving, it is very objective. And that's something we've really immersed ourselves in very deeply to. And people and and the people we give grants to we're appreciative of that they realize that we're serious about measuring their impact, so puts a added incentive on their work as well. And so we Forward Forward announced some of our grant programs on the basis of how much money I think I'm going to have next year. And then I worked really hard to make sure we've got money. And but it takes it's it's not as easy as it sounds to provide grants. So it takes probably four to six months of planning to release a grant round that you know, is going to have both the potential impact and the ability to acquit, equip the equipment reporting back to you. And we owe it to the people that we give grants to to be very clear about what we're trying to achieve. So that's that department is growing. And and we're now I think we're people look at us and go we need to do what they're doing. Yeah, that's certainly the feedback we get. Well, that

Daniel Franco:

was gonna be a follow up question you home literary hospital Research Foundation. Innocence has a target on its back, I guess, from the competitors coming through the market, bringing out new alternative options to the home lottery. As a leader of a, you know, you say you're one of the first to do it as a leader, how do you remain innovative and how do you how do you beat the trends and stay in front? Well, if

Paul:

you think about it, some if you think about life, really you can describe life on an x and y axis, you know, like, the x axis is value and the y axis of of differentiation, you always want to be in a top right hand graph, you want to be high value high differentiation and so, you know, that's a, you know, we're always trying to differentiate ourselves and add value. You can often you can do one, often you see organizations do one or the other. And but we are committed to doing both we you we asked you otherwise what's the point? What's the point of making a lot of money in the not for profit space unless you are adding value Correct. And so I think that that descriptions stand us in good stead that we've got our eye on that ball all the time to make sure that we're we're creating impact in the community, and that we're consistently, you know, consistently trying to differentiate. Myself and my leadership team, you know, when pre COVID we we would go overseas once a year to to scour the particularly the northern hemisphere market to go look, what's, what's happening over here. And what's happening over there has been a great investment by our organization, because we brought back some fantastic ideas to see whether or not they could apply to the Australian marketplace. I think often Australian business leaders and I, including that not for profit, business leaders are very insular, they look, they see others as the competitor, among other other lottery providers are not my competitors, you know, that I think it's wonderful that that the community responds well to this brand, this brand category. My competitors are gambling apps. You know, that's, that's my competitor, and my competitor is, you know, you know, passionately involved in taking people's money without giving any value back. Yeah. So I've, I've got a brand category, and we lead the brand category in South Australia, where we can fulfill an altruistic itch, people think people think, quite appropriately, that not only they're buying a lottery ticket, but they're having a hell of an impact. And then we use that money to have an impact. You know, that's, you know, tell me where the sports bit do that. Yeah. 100%. So, you know, that I see the other charities just just slightly behind where our thinking and going down the same road we do and good on them?

Daniel Franco:

Do you feel that it could ever become the market could ever become flooded?

Paul:

Oh, well, yes. And no, I mean, people choose, you know, choose with their wallet, what, what they want to do, and it's just not as easy as it looks. And so, you saw last year, one of the organizations that decided to get into the, you know, get into the lottery space went broke, we ended up. We didn't have to, but we you know, as the brand leader in that space, we then made money available to the community who relied on that organization. So Muscular Dystrophy when when broken. So we've now made grants to, to make sure that those children with Muscular Dystrophy can actually continue to get services while they're waiting for their into NGOs assessment. We don't make a big deal out of that. But that's how, you know, yes, it's a responsibility we have done and and so, you know, I think while we're making impact, people will still support what we're doing. We're also investigating other, you know, clearly we're not just sitting there waiting. Yeah,

Daniel Franco:

we're

Paul:

doing some giveaway. Exactly. There's a few things, we'll do that offline. There's a few things coming out that might surprise people, but that's exactly, yeah. And so. You know, there's, there's always change, you changes, great.

Daniel Franco:

What's the best thing about your job?

Paul:

What's the best thing about my job to be honest, you can you can put it down to three, three distinct areas. I get occasional opportunity. It's probably more than the occasion, probably every couple of weeks, I get to meet with someone that has been the beneficiary of medical treatment that has been funded by our research. And I'm getting tingles, just talking about it. To be honest. That is the best thing about my job that we you know, our impact is real and tangible. Okay. There's no better feeling no better feeling than meeting someone that their life's been changed by something that we funded

Daniel Franco:

through the smile on their face. Yeah.

Paul:

Yeah, I really, it really does make a profound effect on me. Then, second to that would be tell I don't get to do this much anymore. Because I've got staff that do it, but telling someone that their research idea is going to be backed in, okay. Because Because people, you know, we've got some of the brightest minds in the country. And some of our brightest minds are the brightest minds in the world, who spend months and months and months each year, writing grant applications. So we've tried to streamline our process. So telling someone that their idea is going to get backed in and we had a meeting on Friday afternoon, where, where we told someone that their grant application for a million dollars has been approved. And you know, seriously, it's a it's a, it's a great feeling to be able to do it. And then the third area that I don't get to do that much either anymore, but is telco with a one or lottery

Daniel Franco:

Hoping we've seen the poster. Yeah.

Paul:

And there's been some absolute crackers or phone calls, you know, is this you day by day they stopped. And I've literally had, they've had to blank it out on radio, people's reaction. So and and that's, you know, that's been taken over a little bit by the by the by the media but I'm always there and it's a huge, it's a huge screen. Yeah, and many of our winners have stayed on as, as long term supporters. So that's, that's been good. And I suppose there's a fourth area too, I'm a I'm a great one for for, you know, passing on your experience and knowledge. So I really do enjoy engaging with my team about you know, what their life, you know, what's what's inhibiting them in life and, and setting, you know, setting appropriate goals and appropriate standards so people can, you know, fulfill their their potential.

Daniel Franco:

That's brilliant. Can you going back to point number one, about some of the great things that you the stories that you hear, and the eyewitness that you see of the changing people's lives? Can you provide one really great,

Paul:

there's probably three really, that that stick stick in my mind. This lady won't mind me mentioning her name is Margaret Harrington, who was the first person in the southern hemisphere to have a pancreatic to have a islet transplant to treat her type one diabetes. So we were talking about a person who, probably about 55, when she had her operation, so she had Type One Diabetes from when she was very young. She was having between eight and 12 diabetic seizures a day. Some of those were in the middle of the night while she was asleep. So her husband, but they live in the riverland, her husband had to literally sleep with one eye open to make sure that she got her insulin, if she was having a mid sleep diabetic seizure. She was a teacher, she had to give up teaching. He was a teacher at a different school, he had to be on call to come to her. And through some research funding that we've been supporting the renal group in South Australia for since this organization started so literally 55 years, we've been continuing to fund this group. And so I'm standing on the shoulders of great, great impact from years gone by. They that group did the first live kidney transplant in Australia and it was done here at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital. And they're just the gold the gold as a as a as a research and translational Health Group. And, and the the renal nephrologist in that group is a professor Toby coats and he had seen that there was this new new technique that needed needed Mexico, it was a still experimental technique and he wanted to make it happen here. It was pretty complicated. So we had saturator. I don't know if you were this South really has a great reputation in transplant medicine. But in this particular case, we're talking about in your pancreas, there's things called islets of lenahan. And it's the eyelets I'm talking from a layman's perspective here, it's those islets that create the pancreas that the correct the the insulin enzyme, and of course, in in people with type one diabetes, that enzymes not being produced so and the pancreas is pretty much bolted as well. And so donor pancreas has come from people who did you need to get to those pancreases very quickly, organ donor organ donor registries are very important and you know, big plug for organ donor registries. And it probably takes three track tree three donor pancreas is to come up with enough eyelets to do one transport. And so Toby helped develop a technique that took isolated those islands and then infuse those islands into Margaret's liver. And within days, part of her liver had evolved to start producing enzyme that dealt with her diabetes. And by the time she had a second transplant, islet transplant, within three weeks, I think of their second transplant she was completely insulin independent. Okay, so now what she cured from diabetes Well, that's that's a technicality. If you're not requiring she's probably still got diabetes, but she doesn't need insulin. What she does have though, is rejection medication that she has to take which you In and on itself is not particularly pleasant, but it's better than it's better than having. So Margaret, we know Margaret and we I see here in a fantastic husband, probably every six months, and that has had a major impact on me. The next one would be using the same technique, but there's, in particularly in indigenous communities, not only indigenous community, but particularly in the indigenous community, there's a chronic pancreatitis is a familial, it's a genetic thing. pancreatitis is a it's it's effectively in layman's terms, a pancreas eating itself. And chronic pain, like pain, you know, pain that people describe, like childbirth, but they're all the time. And so using the same technique, what they worked out is if you got got the child early enough, that you could take the pancreas while it was still relatively healthy, and isolate the islets out of that pancreas and then infuse those solids back into the person's liver, you get rid of the pancreas, so you don't have pancreatitis anymore. But you're still producing the the enzyme. And so we've funded it, there's a gap between what the federal government will pay for and the cost of the cost of the surgery. So not only have we funded the research into it, but we funded the gap $30,000 in surgery, so far, we've funded 11 of them. And so you've got 11 children and some young adults walking around, who who, whose life was, whose life was going to be lived, we're going to be shortened through chronic pain and excruciating pain, who now are completely pain free. And we had the opposite, I had the opportunity to meet one of those young ladies recently, and you know, she, she's still, you know, she she has vivid memories of how bad life was. And she's still and now she's, she plays first grade netball, she's got a full time job, you know, she's 22 years of age got a life ahead of her shoe liver, shoe liver completely normal life because you know, she's she's got the, she'll never suffer from diabetes, she doesn't have any chronic pain and, and she's got her own cell. So they're not, there's no anti rejection medication. So that would be the two and then the last one, I suppose is the the impact of we apart from funding research, we also have some programs that we fund. And so the the two areas is our, our support for a palliative care services. And the impact we have on families, when their loved ones are in the last stages of life and pink pelvic gear can go on for years. And we've we've been funding a program at the Women's and Children's Hospital for children's palliative care. So it's sort of something no one likes to talk about. But you know, families who who have a child who, you know, there, there is no hope of recovery. And so therefore, that that's when you go into palliative care to try and improve your quality of life for however long remains, it's as quite makes a big impact on me personally, and I think anyone who hears about it To be honest, yeah. And then the veterans and emergency first responders mental health area we are we just get daily, daily feedback loop about the impact we're making in that area, particularly around the use of trauma therapy, and art therapy and things like that. So we have a team of nine therapists that provide services in those areas. So it's a you know, I get plenty of positive, positive feedback in my job. It's, yeah,

Daniel Franco:

amazing work. So congratulations to you and the team on that. It's fantastic. touching on point four as well, you mentioned your team. Going back to the previous statement, you mentioned your team and how one of your best things about your job was working with some great leaders. What do you what would you say your leadership style is? How do you go about your everyday business?

Paul:

I am a great believer that people need to be really, really clear, we have to see that we have to be looking at the same photograph. And so so I make sure that what I saw, you know what I'm thinking they can see and sometimes it's as as menial as I can describe to me what I've just asked you to do. You know, I think that's not a bad technique to use occasionally, when particularly when it's a bit confusing. I know we have in our executive so my direct reports, I have some really, really smart people and individually. They're smarter than I what they do. So you know, don't second guess them. Yeah. And be there, be there support, be there, be there governance feedback, set them, set them realistic, realistic goals, clear success factors, and come back to me having any problems, but check in on a regular basis, not just about how they go but how they not not only about how they're going from a work perspective, but checking how they're going from a life perspective as well. So that would be an hour, my conversations with my staff will always range. Tell me how are you going on on your plan on a page? You know? So it's a, it's a pretty simple synopsis of what are the key issues and tell me Hagen in life and how can I help you? I would say that I'm a, I have areas that I like to deep dive into. But well, I'm very interested in our research grant programs. And, and, and I'm very interested in our marketing and brand positioning. And so, to the frustration of my colleagues, I'll occasionally deep dive. But they also like they like mine. So yeah, to be honest, I've been around for a while. And, you know, I've been through, you know, the 87 crash. And I've been through a number of economic, great economic downturns. And I think the benefit of a little bit of experience like that is Hey, don't worry, you know, like, just just stay the course. Yeah, we'll be fine. And I feel very sorry for, you know, my sort of, I've got a couple of heads of department that are sort of late 20s. And this The, the, they, they they weren't they just started working at the GFC. You know, they never experienced Yeah, and, you know, you could see people just about throw themselves up close that way. It'll be fine. Yeah, the market will recover. And yeah, and I used to, I used to say to people, it's people just get used to the new normal. And, and that's true. So, yeah, I don't like to get too granular because I'd hire people who are better than me.

Daniel Franco:

Do the same thing. Yeah, I wouldn't. I'd be the dumbest guy on the team.

Paul:

Well, I was really lucky. Three years ago, I did a program at Stanford University. And I can remember, so 10 years apart, I did a program having to do program at Stanford. And but on both occasions, I can remember sitting in the room going, I am the least bright person in this room. Yeah. And it's not a bad. You know, everyone's got to have an A guy, but it's not bad to go in with a bit of a little bit of humble.

Daniel Franco:

Humble Pie.

Paul:

Yeah.

Daniel Franco:

You know, what? Moving into non negotiables. for business. I'm interested in what is one of your non negotiable?

Paul:

If you have to, if you have to think about whether it's ethical, it's probably not, it would be my first non negotiable, right? people invest a lot of time and money into assessments of ethics. And I, you know, I live by that. I live by that saying, if you have to think about it, it's too close to the line. Yeah. Okay. This kept me, it kept me on the right side of the equation for a long time. I think don't fall in love with your own avatars. I said, I said before, you know, the cemetery is full of people that can't be replaced if that is true. So I'm, uh, you know, my colleagues here think I'm joking about this wrong. Absolutely not joking. You know, I'm a great believer in very warm welcome. And very swift goodbyes. Okay, once you've checked out, you've checked out and yeah, so, you know, people have been here sort of 11 years and people say, I know how much longer you're gonna work here as well. I like what I'm doing. But when I go, there'll be no, you know, grand tour of fields. There'll be an empty office. Yeah, you know, people think I'm joking about my day. But you know, I might let the next person have clear, yes, the thing. So warm welcome. Some swift goodbyes would be one of my non negotiables. And, you know, I think I said to you a few weeks ago, if you want something good, anyone up for nothing, you get something good for nothing. So you've got to, you've got to invest, you have to invest time, and efforts, and sometimes money to get good outcomes. Nothing, nothing really good happens on the cheap, you've got to invest and, and your currency sometimes is your time. So what from from my, from my team's perspective, I suppose. I'm always interested in people's plans for the future and how I can help them with that. You know, every single person in this organization has a PD Plan. I completely respect someone who wants to come to work, get paid And go home. And I think about a complete respect that there's no problem at all. I learned that very early in my leadership career, there are some people that just you'll frighten the hell out of them if you start talking to their study. But I say to people, if you if you want to advance if you if you want to attain higher levels of opportunity to create impact, then you need to put a bit of time in yourself. And so I'm happy to help you to do that will help you with your study will help your study time and things like that. But you've got to you got to meet me halfway. So that's a bit of a non negotiable. I've been, you know, my chief operating officer, Briony Marshall and I've been working together for 15 years. And you know, when, and she'll tell you that when I, when I first hired her 15 years ago, I said to her, your, your, your, your, you will never have worked as hard outside of office hours as you're going to work because I want you to. And I was talking to her about doing an MBA. And she thought I was crazy. Yeah. And, and, and eight years later, she finished her MBA, you know, and, and so I'm really keen on helping people achieve what they want to achieve. But sometimes that takes a bit of nudging

Daniel Franco:

it. It does, it does, and is a big thing, accepting those who just want to work. And yeah, like you said, we need to respect that decision.

Paul:

But it creates the sort of ecosystem, when when, when an organization in a leadership team really supports people improving themselves. What happens is someone comes in and goes, Hey, I just wanna I just want an interesting job and get paid do it within within a month, they're saying, you know, I would mind doing that? Yes. I don't mind doing that. If the ecosystem is there, correct.

Daniel Franco:

They are a product of your environment. Yes.

Paul:

And so we have that culture here. And so you know, culture is a funny word. Because people think culture just happens. Culture, culture is the end result of a lot of inputs. Yeah. And so you focus on the process of those inputs. And you end up with a good culture. People say to me, here he goes, got a great culture, you know, so let's, let's, because we invest heavily in it, and we talk about it.

Daniel Franco:

Yeah. So what what are some of the things that you do for your culture? Well, first of all,

Paul:

we've got a, we've got a culture, we've got cultural objectives that are part of a narrative. So we have a value statement that is around the place, and, and those, you know, those values around respect and innovation and, and being being supportive centric, and being impact driven. And then we have a code of conduct, which is a, you know, a standard document, but then we've, we've devolved that into a document called above the line below the line, perfect behavior. Here, and we've got to weave in and all through the offices here, there's, there's signs that, you know, here are the above the line competencies, and here are the below the line behaviors. And we accept that everybody travels below the line now and again, yeah, we also then treat it with a great deal of humor. Yeah. And it's not it's very common. It's very common in a meeting for someone to say, was there a bit below the line? Yeah, everyone laughs But it's just a gentle reminder that, you know, that might have been in other in another context might not have been taken so well. Yeah. And so it really is a great tool. We actually we didn't we didn't invent this tool. No, in fact, I was talking to her a nice artist, who was talking to me about this tool they use in the operating theatre of high pressure environment. I said, Can I have a look at it? He says, it's a bubble I blather on and on. And to be honest, I'm the person most people say, pause.

Daniel Franco:

Wait, we, as you know, we work a lot in the culture space, we've used the above 80 above and below the line, product and terminology quite a fair bit. It's fantastic. What if you spend your time and most of your time in below the line, that's when it becomes an issue because in effect, you become ineffective as a business.

Paul:

We had a about four years ago, we had a staff member, she wasn't here very long, but she made a Yeah, I didn't hear it. But it was reported back to me by half a dozen people within two minutes, she made a an overtly racist comment to one of our other colleagues now. I set her on the spot. You know, I didn't ask for an explanation. I didn't I just checked on the spot Now. Now. Okay, you know, modern human, our HR theory says, you know, gotta go through a process. Sometimes you just got to make the right call. Yeah. And except that you're going to pay if it gets to court. And if she did make a racist comment. It was intentional. And it was completely unacceptable. But I wanted to send a message to the team. It's completely unacceptable. Now. Yes, you know, I mean, she could have taken us to the IR tribunal, and then it would have all come out that she was a racist. She was gonna do that. And gambled with that

Daniel Franco:

before the beauty of what you've done is, like you said, You've called bad behavior, and you've set an example. We don't tolerate that sort of stuff here.

Paul:

Right. And the behavior that we don't tolerate in this workplace is behavior that was common 30 years ago, yeah. That I grew up in, you know, like, so. You have to be you have to change with the times. You know, I look at some of the things now that are unacceptable that were just common. 30 years ago. I got my God, you know, that was, and I was I was part of that, you know, so you have to change with the times you have to be, you have to be a self analytical person and go, you know is does your behavior meet the standards that you're asking other people's other people to? And I haven't always been perfect, but I've learned, I've learned by mistake so. And

Daniel Franco:

you've begun your mistakes. And we've had conversations before. Absolutely. You're been divorced twice. Yeah. Well, you learn from you. You, you're, you're big on the mindset and the mistakes element, which I absolutely love, because I'm in the same category. Can you give us a little bit of a background to your, your thought process on that? Well,

Paul:

about I suppose the first time it really, this really became apparent to me was, was in kind of late 80s. And I was a, a young ish commodities trader. And I was fairly in love with my own position, to be honest. And there was a lot of headway. Yeah. And the, that my organization the Commonwealth Bank had had, I was doing To be honest, I was doing a really good job. I was making a lot of money. Yeah. And they said, Look, okay, we want to broaden your parameters. And we're not we want to expand your risk profile was the was the internal, yep. To do it. And so we want to broaden your parameters, we'd like you to like you to trade a bit broader than what you're doing. And, and I thought I sees how good am I and, and I can remember this this day, like it was yesterday, I, one of my clients, I happened to know what side of the market he was on, I knew he'd be selling a currency to me so often, you didn't know you have yet to make make a market. But in this particular case, I just knew that he was going to be selling and so I, I bought a third currency Papua New Guinea kina, from him, and, and the, the, at that time, the interest rates in Australia were around 4%, the interest rates in Papua New Guinea were 15%. So the interest rate differential was quite high. So it was actually possible to make a bit of money, all other things being equal to currency not moving too fast. Yeah, you can make a bit of interest rate differential. So I made a call was about 300,000, kina from memory. And I made a call to hang on to it. And the next day that Papa New Guinea, government devalued its currency by 20%. And I can't remember how much it was, but it seemed like an awful lot of money at the time. It might have been 25,000. I lost. Yeah. And I, back in the day, it was not like Noni, it was making a lot of money for them. But still, you know, I bust through to my boss, who was in Sydney. We had we had exceptional technology in the late 80s that people really didn't see day to day for 10 years. And I told him, and he's just absolutely let rip every swear word. Yeah, I really, really, it's quite a, it's quite a colorful, like, and, and his name is Kevin Duke. Duke, I suppose, you know, jobs on the lines. Fuck off leanness, I've just invested $25,000 in your training now. And I thought to myself, what a great What a great attitude. And I remember when I went to Adelaide bank, having the very same discussion with with a sort of 50 year old, senior banker. Very young buck at the time, but he's now a 50 year old senior bank executive. And there was an issue at one of our branches, he'd come in as a graduate, and he was doing his rotation as a teller. And he lost a couple grand on a, I could see what happened a block saw an opportunity in pitch$2,000 a customer. Yeah. And I can remember saying to him, that he would just saw my god, you know, like, have a bridge protocol and, and even on the camera, you could see the bike had pinched it, but and, and he and he was shattered. And he said, Ah, you know, does this mean I'm out of a job and I sort of just invested to them. Yeah, brilliant. And he he reminded me of that, sort of 15 years later. He is a senior bank executive. And so Australia won't mention his name. But 15 years later, he said to you Do you remember when he said that had a profound impact on me, and so on. But I'm a great believer that you've got to make mistakes, you got to stretch yourself, you know, some mistakes are gonna be professional and some mistakes and be personal. As long as you can own your mistakes and move on from them and be better for it, then it's a great investment is a great investment.

Daniel Franco:

So I'm just conscious of your time we won't take too much more time. But I'm really interested in you mentioned earlier your beautiful daughter and family Life? Yes. You're a very busy man in the media a fair bit. How do you manage a face for radio? You've got a face for radio is what we're doing podcast we are filming? D How do you I'm really interested in obviously run my own business I have my own family two young beautiful daughters beautiful wife. I'm really conscious of both the work life balance or the blend of whatever it is we I guess we call life where where work and life intertwine. How do you manage your time? And are there any sort of tips that you can get? Well, yeah,

Paul:

I think you have to compartmentalize. So you know, I come from a large family. Close, close family, I lost a brother, who was 18 when I was 15. So we had trauma in our family and, but I've always, always valued valued family. And, you know, we're a close family and my I've, I've got three siblings still alive, my parents, both dead, and I would speak to my siblings, they're the ones in Adelaide, the rest are not the ones overseas, but I speak to them a couple of times a week, all of them. And, and my nieces and nephews. So I've always been a family oriented person. I suppose my position in my broader family was the person that brought people together regularly. And as I think I said, before, I had an opportunity as a step parent, I invested, I invested a lot of time and effort into that, and got a lot of rewards from it a lot of personal rewards from it. And then I thought, My ex wife couldn't have any more kids because of a health condition. And I thought, my, my parenting my days as a as a, as a parent, we'll probably over and then then after we got divorced, and I was kind of pretty keen on not not being with anyone for a while, but I met my partner at a, at a fundraiser. And, you know, sometimes you sort of see someone you go, just takes your breath away and say my partner same. I can remember seeing her across the room. And she smiled at a group of people and they all lit up. Oh my god, she's beautiful. And I thought I had no chance. And But well, I'm a great lady's. So pick the prettiest girl in the room and ask her. And that's what I did. Literally, you know, about an hour later, I happen to meet her and we were chatting away. And I said, how'd you like to go out? And it was so funny, because she tells the story exactly the same way. I was looking straight in the eyes. And how'd you how'd you like to go out? And she you can see what she was ahead. I get out of this just kept eye contact after about a minute. She said, she said yeah, okay. Okay. And I said when

Daniel Franco:

she's not going away, and we've never

Paul:

ever been apart since and, and to try and get me out of to try and get me not interested, she dropped into conversation on your first station. I'm thinking about, you know, because I was 50 at the time, I'm thinking about that. So sorry, I was 47 when first starts. I'm thinking about maybe having another child is good. So am I yeah, she couldn't get rid of me. And I it's been an amazing, you know, nearly 13 years, you know, I've been absolutely blessed to be able to become a father. And I made a decision pretty early on that you just got to be in the moment you. You know, children don't stay children for long, having lost a brother, as when I was a teenager, I realized that it could be gone. Just like that. And so we have a we have a policy that we have a meal together as a family at least once a day if if it's possible, and most days, it's it's possible. And so you know, we would I'm the morning person and Sam's the evening person and I have a view that housework is not it has worked but my mother was the boss of our family. And she taught every single one of us to iron and yoke and stuff like that. So you do as much as you possibly can. Not because you're doing it for the other person you're doing it because if you don't do what someone else has to yeah, okay, so, you know, don't know typical black, don't step over that pile of dirty clothes, put them in the washing machine, do the dishes, things like that, you know that after a while it becomes habit. And I can remember hearing at a passing out parade, a very senior American general talking about habit forming habits. And he said, you know, if I say to anything to make your bed every morning, get into them get into the habit of doing things. And so I wanted to try and be that person I wanted to be that person that, you know, I'd rather sit on the couch and do nothing but I wanted to be the person that my kids saw was an equal partner in a relationship. And so we make that effort I, you know, I'll get get involved in the school I was last night, for example, Sunday night, I was over at the school to a strategic planning meeting for the school board. And, and so you just got to make time. And that means that if you have to do a bit of work at night, you do it after the kids go to bed. Yeah, and I'm very lucky cuz my partner's a professional as well. And, you know, we both would probably sit down and start doing a bit of work about nine o'clock. Yeah. So make that time. You know,

Daniel Franco:

one thing I think we've had in a previous discussion was that you said that you make time for one meal at minimum of one meal per day. And that is, I think that's

Paul:

Yeah, I and I can be cracking some of the huge. conversations you have, as kids grow. I've got a 17 year old son, and when he was about 14, I, you know, I'm, I'm a believer, love is love, you know, you you can't you can't you fall in love with whoever you fall in love with. So I was a big fan of the, the, you know, gay marriage thing and all that sort of stuff. And I started to talk to Jake, when he was about 14. So look mate, I'm your stepfather, he doesn't see his dad much. Yeah. And so one day, you know, 14, you gotta have this discussion. I taught him to shave, you know, yeah. So one day you're gonna, someone's gonna make you feel a bit different. A bit special. Yeah. And it could be a boy, it could e a girl, we don't care. Okay. ut you know, you need to be r spectful and all that sor of thing. So we continually had this discussion, he seemed alr ght, with having that discussi n, to be honest. And then, abou two months ago, I said to him, ate, you know, I want to reinfo ce with you, you know, the fac that, you know, there coul be someone that special in your life. Could be a boy could be a irl. A lot girls. Right. Yes, top. And, but the fact th t I can have that conversation, yeah. my stepson. And he he'll it there and take it. Yeah. Is, think a

Daniel Franco:

Yeah. Very good. All right. We're well past the hour mark. So thank you for your time. Before well, as we round off, I just ask a few quickfire questions. Sometimes they turn into longer than a quick fire. They really depends on how you how you answer. Way of spoken about books in your big radio big learner. Is there a particular book or books that you could recommend to the listeners about, you know, personal growth journey, some things that you've learned? Or is there one that you turn to quite a fair bit

Paul:

when I turn to books, but there's certain excerpts from certain books that that ring true for me? So the book written the novella by Nicola Machiavelli, written in the 14th century, has some absolute the premise was the prince, the prince, the prince? Yeah. You read that? It's, it's obviously written in Latin, but if it's been translated to English, the read that nothing's changed in seven hundred years.

Daniel Franco:

it goes back to your point on the will be right. Yeah, no, we know what's going to happen. Exactly. Yeah.

Paul:

Nothing has changed in bureaucracy in 700 years. And and so that for me, allows me a few shortcuts because don't get frustrated with bureaucracy. It's just the way it is. Yeah. There was a book written in the 80s by Ricardo Semler called Maverick. It was about self managed teams. And the book itself was was interesting, because it was the son of the, you know, the fourth generation of a business in Brazil. And you know, how he had to open his mind to new ways of thinking. And so it doesn't it really, in the end result didn't matter what he did, but it was it was the concept of opening your mind to new ways of thinking. Yep. Which has always has always been important to me. So it's a good read Maverick, actually, it's a

Daniel Franco:

Top Gun stuff, but

Paul:

it's, it's about self managed teams in South America, South American perspective, I think he made more money from his book than he did from his business. But

Daniel Franco:

we'll put these in the show notes.

Paul:

This is a book written by having having the finance sector background. If you want to read a catastrophic failure of process, there's a book called The smartest guys in the room. There's another book similar to that called Bad Blood that you It's a story then. Seriously, I read that and I can remember No, no, no. Oh, you did? You did it. Yeah. And that that's actually had a really interesting, interesting impact on me about making sure history doesn't repeat itself. Yeah. It doesn't have to told me Yeah. I wrote that down the other day. And then the last book that I always like to amuse myself, when people ask me this question is called The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari. And it was the book that was probably the book that that contributed most of my second breakup, which is second marriage. And because my, my, my wife was going through some challenges, emotional challenges and she someone showed her this book, and She became like a Bible. And, and it was an I probably didn't fully appreciate how difficult her emotional problems were. And I used to mock this book because the guy made more money from the book. And it just it whenever I think about that book, I think about my behavior in the relationship that, you know, I, I was mocking the things that she was holding on to, okay. And she was holding on to the fact that this person had had a emotional breakdown was able to come back from it. And so whenever I think about that book, I think, I think to myself, you know, you made a mistake there and how you treated your wife's beliefs, and you ended up not being married. And so, you know, that's the I never read the book. But that one always comes into impact.

Daniel Franco:

You had an impact, in a roundabout way. Excellent. So a few trivial questions. Just to finish off, if you had access to a time machine, where would you go?

Paul:

If I had access to a time machine, I'd probably go back to 1976. January, and and talk, talk to my brother about not getting in a car before he had a car accident would be would be a[inaudible audio] that my brother's death when I was 15. He was eighteen and had a profound impact on our family. And that's probably where I go. He wouldn't listen to me But

Daniel Franco:

no, no, no but. Yeah. I'm a big superhero and Marvel fan. If you had one superhero power. What would it be on? There is not a done him yet. So the smarter one,

Paul:

I just, I'm a big Avengers fan. Yes. I'm in no better character. Occasionally. When I get up in the morning, and I'm shaving I see Thor. Yeah.

Daniel Franco:

No, I see. There is a there's a big there's a video named guy where he put on a few. Chris Hemsworth as a doppelganger, I would say. Yeah. So what are your business goals? What's one thing that's on your bucket list?

Paul:

What's one thing like at least Well, I'd like to see my daughter grow up and be happy. So you know, I want to I want to I want to live live a healthy life and be in the moment for a long time. That's probably the my soul. You know, that would be the most important thing. In my in my life. I'd like to make sure that I lost my father when I was 21. I like to make sure that my children don't have to bear that burden. Because it was a burden not just on me, but on my siblings.

Daniel Franco:

And we just mentioned your daughter. So you are a father. We know. What's your best dad joke? Surely there's one floating around?

Paul:

Let us know let us say what are they? What is the you know, you can you can use your app to go and Tracy Tracy's things you can

Daniel Franco:

poke him on.

Paul:

And there's one other Pokemon. That sounds like someone sneezing, sneezing, so I always try and get her to say I say you know, bless you. Bless you. Yeah, and I'll just let you know, and I get great joy. And you know, like, she's nine, but she's just a roller. Please don't do that again. Don't do it around my friends dad.

Daniel Franco:

that's horrible. That's the best thing about being a dad Exactly. As you can tell she jokes.

Paul:

We have fun. We have dinner often. We have pan offs. So who can who can build the best puns. So my my son is really good at it. And Aiden is getting good at it. And so Sam sits there and listens to the three of us. Yeah, someone mentioned Zig. And so the next thing is 18 words with a gun or something like that.

Daniel Franco:

Excellent. Excellent.

Paul:

She was she's often ecstatic about.

Daniel Franco:

really excellent. All right, we'll round up there. Thank you very, very much for your time today. It's greatly appreciated. Where do we where do we find you?

Paul:

Well, you find me at the hospital Research Foundation or on LinkedIn. Paul Flynn. I respond to all requests except singing.

Daniel Franco:

Yeah, no karaoke for you.

Paul:

That's just to protect people.

Daniel Franco:

Yeah, brilliant. Thank you very much for your time and we would love to catch up again. Thank you. Thanks.

Synergy IQ:

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